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Originally Posted by PR_Tom
I hate reading every multi quoted message ever created so I'll only do it once.
No. You're trying to say I subscribe to your premise that gay is a lifestyle choice first of all, which I dont. And second, I said that a rapidly shrinking number of people believe that homosexuality is a choice. That is to say, they also are coming to realise the very premise is faulty and everything crumbles without it.
They realised they were homosexuals. Very common. And in the case of Anne Heche, she was a straight woman who thought she was gay, but realised she was wrong. You laid it out basically right but missed the obvious conclusion.
The premise that you rely on, that gay is a lifestyle choice, is what your (I say "your" meaning the overall argument) argument is hinged on, or depends on.. Like I said before, it's simply incorrect and it's a shrinking position as more people become aware of it.
The reason racism is a valid analogy is exactly because one can't change their true sexuality any more than a person can change their skin color. Just choose not to be black sort of fails right? It's the same thing and it's not a matter of belief, it's just a matter of accepting facts at the end of the day.
If I jam my hand in fire, yes I'm choosing to remove my hand because "something just wasn't right about that on second thought".
Anyway yeah, I'm fine having a different opinion. The handwriting has been on the wall for decades on this one though. But of course alot of people don't vote on math or science. It's pretty weak of lawmakers to say "traditional definition of marriage" though. How about the "traditional definition of property" when it came to abolishing slavery, or the "traditional definition of voting" when it came to allowing women to vote.. this one is really so easy to see coming. Just saying.
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I'm honored you chose to multiquote my message, and in return I shall not multiquote again.
1-I don't suppose you to subscribe to anything. I just disagree with you. I don't believe gay is a lifestyle choice first and foremost. I believe that it is for some and is not for some. Wait, I'll reverse that order for you. I believe that it is not a choice for some, yet it is a choice for others.
I don't agree that the number of people believing homosexuality is a rapidly shrinking number. I guess it depends on your thoughts of how big the number is and how fast it may be changing. Perhaps the number of people believing that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice is a rapidly growing number? If you have 1million people that agreed with that before and now 1.5 million think that, then that's a 50% growth rate, whereas 1/2 million changing from the other side of the equation would be a 1/10% decline. Guess it just depends on how you look at it.
2- They realized they were homosexuals when before they were not? Possible, or perhaps they chose option 2 instead of option 1. Either way is certainly plausible. Anne Heche was straight, thought she was gay, and realized she was wrong. Or perhaps she was straight, then felt gay and now feels straight again. Maybe she will feel gay again at one point. it's convenient to pass her (and others) off as pretenders and assume that all gays are actually the only true gays. I know, it's convenient for me to do so on the other side.
3- I don't rely on gay being a lifestyle choice. I'm saying it's part of the equation, not the entire answer. It's not incorrect and can't be if it's part of the equation. The idea that it's shrinking is agreeable, just not sure I'd agree with the perception of how fast it's occurring.
4- Sure you can change sexuality and people are doing it. I'm straight, but if I decide to go on a bender for a few years and enjoy penis, I bet I'd identify as gay. I'd probably have a hard time getting a date otherwise. It would be a choice for me to do so and perhaps I'd become infatuated and perhaps fall in love with another man if I decided to do so. Would this make me less gay than those that have never felt feelings for a woman ever in their entire lives? Tough to make that judgement call in my opinion.
Your supposition is that gayness is 100% born, just like skin color. I disagree. No big deal, I just disagree. I'd say yes for some, no for others. If you are looking at facts, then you have to accept that there are those in the gay community that have chosen to be there. Unless of course you write off all of those as pretenders, or they were confused in their heterosexual existence prior to, then your argument succeeds.
5- Traditional is what it is. Kind of like saying Majority. Can it change. Sure it can. Will it? Who knows. You may be right, or it may spark the populace to make different choices about how they wish to be governed. I'd venture to say that the black population fighting for equality was larger in percentage of the populace than the gay population fighting for a different kind of equality. Also, blacks were fighting for what people would identify most likely as remnants of slavery. They wished to be equalized to their white neighbors and not segregated. I believe they already had property and marriage equality at that point. To my knowledge, gays don't have to ride on the backs of busses or drink from separate water fountains or use different changing rooms. They simply want recognition of the word "marriage" to apply to them. I suggest using different terminology to accomplish those goals.