I'm confused about Lindsay Lohan's probation.

[kane]

I just read that Lohan has decided to not take a plea deal and will go to trial on the theft charge she faces. Supposedly now the judge can send her to jail for violating her probation before she even goes to trial. So here is what I am confused about. Is just getting accused of a crime a violation of probation? It seems like they would have to convict you before you were considered in violation.

Not defending Lindsay, just curious.

[Robbie]

Apparently just being Lyndsay Lohan is a crime.

You know...if I were a big Hollywood star and they started fucking with me...I'd move. I'd say "fuck you" and leave. Take my tax money that they would have got and just move somewhere that the authorities wouldn't hassle me.

[msp]

In most states, once you're on probation, its guilty until proven innocent. Just having charges filed, or in some cases just interfacing with a cop, is enough to have your probation revoked.

[kane]

Originally Posted by msp

In most states, once you're on probation, its guilty until proven innocent. Just having charges filed, or in some cases just interfacing with a cop, is enough to have your probation revoked.

I did not know that. I guess that is what I was assuming, but didn't know for sure.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Apparently just being Lyndsay Lohan is a crime.

You know...if I were a big Hollywood star and they started fucking with me...I'd move. I'd say "fuck you" and leave. Take my tax money that they would have got and just move somewhere that the authorities wouldn't hassle me.

I'd probably do the same. Although I think I would have left long before I ever got in trouble. Being followed around like that and not being able to do anything without a photographer in your face would get old quick.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by kane

I'd probably do the same. Although I think I would have left long before I ever got in trouble. Being followed around like that and not being able to do anything without a photographer in your face would get old quick.

It's kinda crazy what they are doing to her, Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, and even guys like Mel Gibson.

Wasn't that long ago that they would protect the stars there. That's the bread and butter. That's why you didn't see the older stars back in the day getting busted for dui and shit like that. The cops know all the stars there and the city realized that they needed to protect them because they make the wheels go round for Hollywood.

Even just a couple of decades ago guys like Jack Nicholson were all over L.A. fucked up on cocaine and booze all night long. But they didn't bother him.

Now they seem to have some sort of "got ya" mentality there. The cops are all trying to get promotions and the lawyers and judges all want to be mentioned on the news. It's just dumb. If I were a major star I'd tell them all to kiss my ass and go somewhere that I could party and not be bothered. Like George Clooney and Johnny Depp did for instance.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by kane

I just read that Lohan has decided to not take a plea deal and will go to trial on the theft charge she faces. Supposedly now the judge can send her to jail for violating her probation before she even goes to trial. So here is what I am confused about. Is just getting accused of a crime a violation of probation? It seems like they would have to convict you before you were considered in violation.

Not defending Lindsay, just curious.

They can revoke your bond for getting arrested.

[baddog]

When you are on probation/parole all it takes is a preponderance of the evidence as opposed to evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

It is a very risky maneuver on her part. I am not sure she had much choice. She was pretty much damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

[Supz]

well if she did not commit a crime, then she didnt violate her probation. So if she is not guilty, she is not guilty. Simple as that.

[V_RocKs]

I fucked her mum.

[Agent 488]

stars have always been in trouble with the cops, charged, been in prison. you are romanticizing it a bit.

Originally Posted by Robbie

It's kinda crazy what they are doing to her, Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, and even guys like Mel Gibson.

Wasn't that long ago that they would protect the stars there. That's the bread and butter. That's why you didn't see the older stars back in the day getting busted for dui and shit like that. The cops know all the stars there and the city realized that they needed to protect them because they make the wheels go round for Hollywood.

Even just a couple of decades ago guys like Jack Nicholson were all over L.A. fucked up on cocaine and booze all night long. But they didn't bother him.

Now they seem to have some sort of "got ya" mentality there. The cops are all trying to get promotions and the lawyers and judges all want to be mentioned on the news. It's just dumb. If I were a major star I'd tell them all to kiss my ass and go somewhere that I could party and not be bothered. Like George Clooney and Johnny Depp did for instance.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Supz

well if she did not commit a crime, then she didnt violate her probation. So if she is not guilty, she is not guilty. Simple as that.

"charged" with a crime is enough for bail revocation.

.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Supz

well if she did not commit a crime, then she didnt violate her probation. So if she is not guilty, she is not guilty. Simple as that.

No, it is not as simple as that. In fact, this is how it will likely go down.

Before her trial even starts, the DA is going to request a hearing for a probation violation. That will be held before the actual trial.

Like I said, it is a preponderance of the evidence. In other words, if there is enough evidence to support the claim that it MIGHT have happened, you are violated.

You can then have your trial and be found not guilty, but the violation stands. it is as simple as that.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

stars have always been in trouble with the cops, charged, been in prison. you are romanticizing it a bit.

Ok...I know you love to be contrarian about everything...start naming 'em baby! I already named one: Jack Nicholson. Partied his ass off on acid, cocaine, etc. and drove all over L.A.
I don't recall seeing movie stars ever in the news getting arrested for dui or getting harrassed at every turn like I've seen in the last 15 to 20 years.

But go back in time and show me...

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Ok...I know you love to be contrarian about everything...start naming 'em baby! I already named one: Jack Nicholson. Partied his ass off on acid, cocaine, etc. and drove all over L.A.
I don't recall seeing movie stars ever in the news getting arrested for dui or getting harrassed at every turn like I've seen in the last 15 to 20 years.

But go back in time and show me...

off the top of my head the beatles, stones.

plenty of classic busts here:

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=...m_format=print

i agree modern robocop shit sucks, but celebs have always been getting into trouble.

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Apparently just being Lyndsay Lohan is a crime.

You know...if I were a big Hollywood star and they started fucking with me...I'd move. I'd say "fuck you" and leave. Take my tax money that they would have got and just move somewhere that the authorities wouldn't hassle me.

Problem for her is that she hasn't carried a movie in almost 10 years now. She's more of a tabloid celebrity selling her photos to get by than she is a Hollywood star. She is nothing with out gossip sites and paparazzi.

Other than that, I agree with you 100% here.

[kane]

Originally Posted by baddog

No, it is not as simple as that. In fact, this is how it will likely go down.

Before her trial even starts, the DA is going to request a hearing for a probation violation. That will be held before the actual trial.

Like I said, it is a preponderance of the evidence. In other words, if there is enough evidence to support the claim that it MIGHT have happened, you are violated.

You can then have your trial and be found not guilty, but the violation stands. it is as simple as that.

I see. So if the judge looks at the evidence and thinks that you may have done this crime that is enough to violate you and potentially send you to jail. If you are then found not guilty at trail, so be it, you still violated your parole.

Seems kind of wild, but I guess the idea is if you are on parole you better make sure you never put yourself in any situation where you even might be considered to have committed a crime.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

off the top of my head the beatles, stones.

plenty of classic busts here:

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=...m_format=print

i agree modern robocop shit sucks, but celebs have always been getting into trouble.

Reading that page...I did see the Beatles and The Stones busted...of course that was during the cultural revolution (whatever happened to that...I thought the young people "won"?) when those two bands got arrested every other day all over the world.

The rest of them are all from the last couple of decades like I was sayin'...except Robert Mitchum back in 1948. I think that back in those days the studios kept everybody happy and paid off, because after they busted Mitchum...nobody really had any trouble again until the 1990's when the police state started cranking up.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by kane

I see. So if the judge looks at the evidence and thinks that you may have done this crime that is enough to violate you and potentially send you to jail. If you are then found not guilty at trail, so be it, you still violated your parole.

Seems kind of wild, but I guess the idea is if you are on parole you better make sure you never put yourself in any situation where you even might be considered to have committed a crime.

Parole or probation. And yeah, it sucks. Explains why there are so many repeat offenders. It is hard to be good in the city.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kane

I just read that Lohan has decided to not take a plea deal and will go to trial on the theft charge she faces. Supposedly now the judge can send her to jail for violating her probation before she even goes to trial. So here is what I am confused about. Is just getting accused of a crime a violation of probation? It seems like they would have to convict you before you were considered in violation.

Not defending Lindsay, just curious.

Speaking as someone who has been on probation for 10 years -- you just get arrested and you'll be in jail till your hearing. I'm confused as well.

[kane]

To add to all of this I just read that all the hearings, procedures and punishments handed out prosecuting Lohan has cost the state of California several million dollars. Seems like a waste of money.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by kane

To add to all of this I just read that all the hearings, procedures and punishments handed out prosecuting Lohan has cost the state of California several million dollars. Seems like a waste of money.

Yep...taxpayers are constantly paying for this kind of stupidity. It keeps the police and lawyers and judges all paid and taken care of. Meanwhile REAL crime goes on everyday.

Here in Vegas yesterday the city decided to make some money...I've never seen so many cops in my life. I drove to the airport and all the way there and all the way back were motorcycle cops pulling over soccer moms.

I'm not kidding...must have been nearly 100 people I saw yanked over. That's called the police dept. trying to make some money off hard working people to keep themselves employed. It was like being in a police state because every 1/4 mile there were uniformed officers with people pulled over.

Meanwhile...they don't do shit about the gangs in town. Guess it's easier and a lot more profitable to pull over soccer moms in minivans doing 45 in a 35 zone.

[beerptrol]

yes poor Lindsay Lohan. Someone forced her to get behind the wheel drunk twice. And someone forced her to violate her probation on more than one occasian. Why don't they leave that poor innocent girl alone, she has better things to do than follow the rules like everyone else.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Meanwhile...they don't do shit about the gangs in town. Guess it's easier and a lot more profitable to pull over soccer moms in minivans doing 45 in a 35 zone.

I am willing to bet that Las Vegas, like most large cities has a section of the PD that is devoted solely to traffic. You perhaps have heard of "traffic cops." That is their job, to enforce traffic laws. Would you rather they hung out at the donut shop?

[kane]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

yes poor Lindsay Lohan. Someone forced her to get behind the wheel drunk twice. And someone forced her to violate her probation on more than one occasian. Why don't they leave that poor innocent girl alone, she has better things to do than follow the rules like everyone else.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying she should be let off the hook or that she should be allowed to do as she pleases without consequence, but it seems like spending several million dollars on this case is pretty ridiculous. I would imagine there are better, more effective ways that money could have been spent.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by kane

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying she should be let off the hook or that she should be allowed to do as she pleases without consequence, but it seems like spending several million dollars on this case is pretty ridiculous. I would imagine there are better, more effective ways that money could have been spent.

So, she should be kept in custody?

[Jman]

I think you have a problem if you get confused with Lindsay Lohan period ;-)))

[msp]

Originally Posted by kane

I see. So if the judge looks at the evidence and thinks that you may have done this crime that is enough to violate you and potentially send you to jail. If you are then found not guilty at trail, so be it, you still violated your parole.

Chances are once you're found not guilty, your probation/parole will probably be restored (but there's no guarantee of that), but when you went on it, you signed an agreement with the state that you would have no recourse and you basically give up your rights in this kind of situation, you would have been forced to sign the document as a condition of your probation/parole, refuse to sign, no probation/parole.

It really doesn't matter how bad you get screwed over if you're on p/p, you have no real recourse once you've been cleared. Its a HORRIBLE system, and attacks innocent people all the time.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by baddog

I am willing to bet that Las Vegas, like most large cities has a section of the PD that is devoted solely to traffic. You perhaps have heard of "traffic cops." That is their job, to enforce traffic laws. Would you rather they hung out at the donut shop?

Lloyd why are you trying to piss me off. lol

Here in Vegas they use traffic tickets and even DUI to make money for the city. That's why you see those big signs up all over Vegas about different lawyers who specialize in traffic tickets and DUI.

I just did a traffic ticket two weeks ago here. I went to these guys:
http://www.702traffic.com/

I had been ticketed for doing 50 in a 35 and not using my turn signals when I switched lanes. This occurred at 3:30 a.m. by the way with hardly any traffic at all on 6 lane Rancho Blvd right beside the Texas Station and Fiesta casinos. So nobody was in danger or anything.

Anyway, I took my ticket in to the Pink building on the corner of Flamingo & Rainbow and sat down with the attorney. He looked at my ticket and said: "The cop was being a real prick". And he told me that those two tickets would get me 6 to 8 points on my license according to what the judge decided.

I then paid him $400 He told me I would receive two parking tickets with GIANT fines payable to the city. I would get no points and the tickets are off my record.

I asked him how they were able to do that...he told me flat out: Because the city wants money. That's all it is.

Keep in mind...they do the same thing for DUI.

So yes Lloyd...I do think you could fire 3/4 of most any cities police dept. and the city would still be safe. Because you could just fire most of those money collectors called "traffic cops" and you still wouldn't have fired one REAL cop off the force.

In my humble opinion every one of those bastards should be ashamed to look in the mirror. Especially when they are setting up speed traps and pulling over women on their way to work in this bad economy...effectively costing them money that they can't afford to pay out when trying to struggle through this mess.

[kane]

Originally Posted by baddog

So, she should be kept in custody?

Honestly, I think she should just be put back on the ankle bracelet so that we know she isn't drinking and driving (which was her original charge) and they should have handled the theft charge like they would have with just about anyone else which means that the DA would look at the evidence, decide if they wanted to charge her and then before even making the charges offer her a plea deal outside of court. No circus needed, no crap, the DA and Lohan's attorney meet and the plea is offered along with the information of what will happen if she chooses not to accept it or vice versa. If she takes the plea and it violates her probation she goes before the judge who decides what to do (again, for me, just put her in the bracelet or revoke her right to drive, but putting her in jail for 10 days isn't going to have much of an affect on her). If she chooses to go to court, then have a trial.

It just seems like the prosecutor and the judge here are hellbent on making a bigger issue of this than it needs to be because she wants to make an example of Lohan. Lindsay isn't helping herself, but as I said before spending several million dollars to possibly put her behind bars for a few weeks seems like a major waste of funding.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Lloyd why are you trying to piss me off. lol

Here in Vegas they use traffic tickets and even DUI to make money for the city. That's why you see those big signs up all over Vegas about different lawyers who specialize in traffic tickets and DUI.

I just did a traffic ticket two weeks ago here. I went to these guys:
http://www.702traffic.com/

I had been ticketed for doing 50 in a 35 and not using my turn signals when I switched lanes. This occurred at 3:30 a.m. by the way with hardly any traffic at all on 6 lane Rancho Blvd right beside the Texas Station and Fiesta casinos. So nobody was in danger or anything.

Anyway, I took my ticket in to the Pink building on the corner of Flamingo & Rainbow and sat down with the attorney. He looked at my ticket and said: "The cop was being a real prick". And he told me that those two tickets would get me 6 to 8 points on my license according to what the judge decided.

I then paid him $400 He told me I would receive two parking tickets with GIANT fines payable to the city. I would get no points and the tickets are off my record.

I asked him how they were able to do that...he told me flat out: Because the city wants money. That's all it is.

Keep in mind...they do the same thing for DUI.

So yes Lloyd...I do think you could fire 3/4 of most any cities police dept. and the city would still be safe. Because you could just fire most of those money collectors called "traffic cops" and you still wouldn't have fired one REAL cop off the force.

In my humble opinion every one of those bastards should be ashamed to look in the mirror. Especially when they are setting up speed traps and pulling over women on their way to work in this bad economy...effectively costing them money that they can't afford to pay out when trying to struggle through this mess.

If the guy pulled you over at 3am chances were he was just looking to see if you were suspended or had no insurance. I have several friends that are cops and they all tell me on graveyard shift they get very few actual traffic stops like speeding etc. But if they see headlight or tail light out or any minor thing they often pull the person over and about 20% of the time they catch someone with a suspended license or no insurance. Of course if the person is legit and isn't suspended they don't ticket them for the lame thing they pulled them over for, but from what I understand some departments are required to ticket you for what they pulled you over for unless there is a very good reason not too.

[2MuchMark]

Why the fuck does anyone care about this chick or any other drug-addicted loser? Come on people... care more about the ART of acting. Appreciate these people for the work they create but stop making asshole companies like TMZ rich. People crave a stars fall from grace because it makes losers feel better about themselves, and TMZ caters to those losers. The only time Lohan will be worth my attention is when she cleans up and starts making movies. Until then, nada.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by msp

It really doesn't matter how bad you get screwed over if you're on p/p, you have no real recourse once you've been cleared. Its a HORRIBLE system, and attacks innocent people all the time.

Self defeating too. If you make it all but impossible for people on p/p to stay out of jail, much less ever get off of p/p, the system will forever remain gridlocked.

Somebody there needs to think outside the box.