Who actually feels the United States was behind the towers colapse

[onedree]

The United States was actually behind this ?

[Deej]

the US was under the collapse

[Wilsy]

Here we go again :-(

[EddyTheDog]

I gave up caring about 10 years ago....

Its the BS that followed I worry about now.

[mafia_man]

It wasn't an inside job.

They were just incompetent with the intelligence, which was possibly deliberate.

[Scott McD]

Seriously, this again ??

[EddyTheDog]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

Seriously, this again ??

Happy aniversary....

[JamesGw]

Originally Posted by mafia_man

It wasn't an inside job.

They were just incompetent with the intelligence, which was possibly deliberate.

This I can believe.

A controlled demolition? Give me a fucking break.

Go away.

[Double trouble]

Steel Buildings Don't Collapse From Fire!

[crappy99]

your all a bunch of idiots because i am pornostar69 and i type in big letters so i must be right

[onedree]

My Hubby says hiye ... :P

[Wilsy]

Originally Posted by onedree

My Hubby says hiye ... :P

He looks old

[AAB]

At this point, one would have to be a sheep of epic proportions to still believe the official story. But then again, take a look at Obama zombies. Thinking that they could exhibit any form of common sense is even more foolish than thinking that 911 was a terrorist attack...

[Emil]

I believe that building 7 was so sad that his friends collapsed that he collapsed out of sympathy.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by AAB

At this point, one would have to be a sheep of epic proportions to still believe the official story. But then again, take a look at Obama zombies. Thinking that they could exhibit any form of common sense is even more foolish than thinking that 911 was a terrorist attack...

Wow, the incredible stupidity of the conspiracy theory sheep is astounding.

[2MuchMark]

fucktards everywhere.

[thickcash_amo]

Ugh why people have to be so in your face with their crazy conspiracy theories is beyond me

[garce]

Originally Posted by mafia_man

It wasn't an inside job.

They were just incompetent with the intelligence, which was possibly deliberate.

I doubt it was deliberate, it was more like par for the course. Fifty thousand different tragedies could befall the United States, and there are probably thousands of pages of documents warning about every imagineable scenario. Maybe the American beauracracy was (and still is) too big to be effective, or pro-active, in specific situations. It does not diminish the impact of this tragedy one iota.

And I feel sorry for anyone who gave up caring because of the "bullshit" that has ensued over the last ten years. A lot of good lives were erased, changed, and destroyed that day. To so cavalierly shrug off 9/11 and its victims due to the opinions and actions of others is, frankly, sickening.

[onedree]

Originally Posted by andrew.r

He looks old

Most full bird colonels are ... Maybe one day you will be lucky enough for
him to show you his eagle emblem out in the parking lot ... _
(The winner purchases me my next glass of Chardonnay :P )

[V_RocKs]

Originally Posted by crappy99

your all a bunch of idiots because i am pornostar69 and i type in big letters so i must be right

If you are going to use a fake nick, at least know which one you are posting under before using a larger font.

[wehateporn]

We're at a stage now where we can see a group of very loyal people who take Authority As Truth. That's a nice thing, it's good to have people who trust you, who stay loyal. We also have a group of people who see Truth as The Authority. These people will seek out what they believe is the truth even if it may prove something bad about their own country or even their own family.

The two groups of people will not agree with each other unless the Authorities give a story that appears to be the truth.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by onedree

:P )

Back off on personal information, just saying.

.

[Overload]

well, what really nags me ... is the details ...

remember the witnesses? "we heard explosions (2ndary and more)"
the firemen? "two brief fires - only two crews needed to put them out"
the janitor? "there were explosions in the basement - i saw ppl with broken legs and other severe injuries"

facts: burning kerosine can NOT liquify steel and yet the cellars of the towers were FILLED with molten steel (still burning firemen boots WEEKS after the collapse!)

how come tiny fragments of bones have been found 100s of feet away from the towers on the roof of the deutsche bank? rubble, weighing hundreds of metric kilos were thrown into other buildings (didnt the officials claim the towers IMPLODED? then anything wud have been kept inside!) ...

wtc7: hmm, what happened to all the stock exchange documents? and the charges of fraud addressed to worldcom and others? - up in smoke! and hey, wasnt wtc7 the HQ for the towers? with its own BUNKER, power supply and such - and yet the major does NOT use it, but is walking around talking about the buildings are going to blow up? odd, not? besides, HOW wtc7 went down is more than suspicious ... ehm, and NEVER BEFORE IN HISTORY did a fire tear down a steel building and yet it happened THRICE on THAT DAY?! c'mon, the windsor tower burnt like hell for TWENTY HOURS and didnt go down!

silverstein: rented the towers for 14million bucks and insured them ... and made a whopping 14 BILLION bucks profit! (remember, several HUGE parts of the towers were no longer making any profit -- not to forget how much it wud have cost to renew the armor of the steel - asbest, remember?)

also, three weeks before the "attack" there were power-outs, evacuation trainings and some ppl who worked in the towers reported things like dust in their bureaus and "strange" noise of heavy machinery like steam hammers ... and five days before the shit hit the fan, the bomb sniffer dogs were put off duty (WHY? !!!)

sorry, but anyone eating the official story doesnt ask the right questions ... no, I DONT EAT THE OFFICIAL STORY!

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by AAB

At this point, one would have to be a sheep of epic proportions to still believe the official story. But then again, take a look at Obama zombies. Thinking that they could exhibit any form of common sense is even more foolish than thinking that 911 was a terrorist attack...

I would say there are a lot of people, especially from the older generations who don't use the Internet or only search through the mainstream news; they get most their news from newpapers/TV. They will have only received one version of the story so will most likely believe it. It's important for more people to hear both sides and then make up their own minds

As for those who have received both sides of the story, we can clearly see that people have different ways of processing information. I suspect it's a right/left brain thing; those who are right brain dominant are better with certain types of task, and those with left are better with others. I often wonder what it is that makes some of us see a lie/scam where another does not. I know people who can be tricked very easily, time and time again, but they can be very intelligent in other ways. Since I was a youngster I've always had an instinct for a lie, I can hear it, I can feel it, I have often warned others who didn't always listen. The instinct is very complex, but most the time it has observed and flagged illogical behaviour

[campimp]

the whole thing is a bit fishy... but i seriously doubt bush and his team were behind anything, however it would definitely not surprise me to learn that there were americans involved in the planning and preparation of the attacks

[huey]

Pull it.

[raymor]

Originally Posted by Double trouble

Steel Buildings Don't Collapse From Fire!

Having the papers on people's desks burning is EXACTLY the same thing as 50,000 gallons of jet fuel, after being rammed
by a half million pound jet.

Have you never seen a fire ring or bbq grill that's a few years old?
Just a small wood fire makes the steel sag and warp. If a couple pieces of wood makes steel warp and sag, what makes you think 50,000 gallons of jet fuel is harmless? Never mind that the building was hit by a huge fucking airplane going a couple hundred miles an hour!

[AdultKing]

Onedree. Ahh, if it wasn't for people as stupid as her the world would be a better place.

Seriously what a stupid minge she is. In the same league is SallyRand. A complete raving lunatic middle aged housewife with no life or purpose in life. Ugly as fuck as well.

[Vjo]

There is no way the first tower (that collapsed) could collapse on it's own so quickly after being hit. It was the last hit (by the 2nd plane) and the first to go.

Steel doesnt melt till around 2800+ degrees. There is no way the steel frame heated that quickly throughout the building.

Steel frame structures do not pancake like a house of cards (or exactly like one under demolition).

Steel structures have burned for many hours and never once fell before. One in Japan was engulfed for over 18 hours and never fell. (as the vid above prob tells, did not view it, no need) This one burned for 45 mins (approx) and collapsed.

Acetylene torches are used to melt and cut hardened, high carbon steel (like frames in buildings) at over 2800 degrees, (blue-white flame, acetylene cutting torch, remember shop class?)

Normal fire like the one from Jet fuel burns around 1200 degrees.

These are all facts.

[mikesouth]

I think only an idiot would take the governments explanation as truth, I dont know that the government was "behind" it but I am certain the government has lied about it....a LOT!

[My Pimp]

I do not think so .

[Jey p]

not at all

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by AAB

At this point, one would have to be a sheep of epic proportions to still believe the official story. But then again, take a look at Obama zombies. Thinking that they could exhibit any form of common sense is even more foolish than thinking that 911 was a terrorist attack...

One would have to be an idiot to think that 13 million square feet of office space(Twin Towers) could be prepared for controlled demolition, in the busiest section of New York -- when the largest controlled demo for a building ever recorded is 2.2 million square feet -- and that took 3 months with an empty building and an army of engineers to complete.

So some commandos snuck in during workers lunch breaks and threw some timed explosives behind a few desks? Where is the miles of wiring, drilling equipment, etc? Where are the US demolition engineers evil enough to go through with the plan, and also keep quiet about it?

Chew on that.

[Freaky_Akula]

I do not think the government was behind it, but I do think they let it happen. They have done it before at Pearl Harbor.

[Overload]

Originally Posted by raymor

Having the papers on people's desks burning is EXACTLY the same thing as 50,000 gallons of jet fuel, after being rammed
by a half million pound jet.

Have you never seen a fire ring or bbq grill that's a few years old?
Just a small wood fire makes the steel sag and warp. If a couple pieces of wood makes steel warp and sag, what makes you think 50,000 gallons of jet fuel is harmless? Never mind that the building was hit by a huge fucking airplane going a couple hundred miles an hour!

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh! wrong in more than one way ... who said they were FULLY fueled? dont planes carry just ENUFF TO MAKE IT TO THEIR DERSTINATION?! hmm?

oh, a grill ... yeah sure ... i have one YEARS old ... and guees what? i mis/ab-used it in many ways and it never MELTS!

the towers were build like a mosquito net (the ones you have on the doors) and the plane was just like a pen penetrating it ...

steel buildings DO NOT fall from fire! (serious, one of the towers had been burning for several hours in the 70s and yet it stood intact - and 25 years later its such a piece of shit regarding craftmanship and collapses from a fire not even burning alight? rubbish!)

[ruff]

I've been saying this all along. It was the same fucks that killed Kennedy.

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by bronco67

One would have to be an idiot to think that 13 million square feet of office space(Twin Towers) could be prepared for controlled demolition, in the busiest section of New York -- when the largest controlled demo for a building ever recorded is 2.2 million square feet -- and that took 3 months with an empty building and an army of engineers to complete.

So some commandos snuck in during workers lunch breaks and threw some timed explosives behind a few desks? Where is the miles of wiring, drilling equipment, etc? Where are the US demolition engineers evil enough to go through with the plan, and also keep quiet about it?

Chew on that.

There were reports I heard of guys running around months before in dark clothing.

The building is so huge that if the powers that be knew about it and a couple under them, then noone would notice.

Wasnt building 7 occupied before the admitted demolition. (not sure) But that was wired and noone seen that.

Also the old grill is hardly high carbon steel that is used in frames in buildings. The Grill is more like clothes hanger which is not the same as a high rise building frame would be. Different metal composition.

Correct, the frame was designed with redundencies like a mosquito net so that it could not free fall (without demolition) IF a plane hit. That is why they built it that way.. for planes. Original engineers already said that was so.

[Vjo]

How many billions did certain parties save because the twin towers were set for major updates costing billions? The Port Authority had said many updates needed to be made. Costing at least $500 Billion.

Follow the money. They killed 3000 Americans to save BIG money.

They collected on the insurance in 2005. Made BIG money instead of lost BIG money.

Big money is always behind everything evil. Prob a trillion dollar swing was the motive.

How they got the Arabs involved I dont know but I believe BIG money (savings and then earnings) killed 3000 Americans.

I may be wrong. Time will tell.

[MediaGuy]

Remember also that the Twin Towers were shut down completely for a week two weeks prior to the event, after which the bomb-sniffing dogs were pulled.

So many little coincidences... so many quastions, it seems the only people who believe the official story are those who don't know the official story's "details".

.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by MediaGuy

Remember also that the Twin Towers were shut down completely for a week two weeks prior to the event, after which the bomb-sniffing dogs were pulled.

So many little coincidences... so many quastions, it seems the only people who believe the official story are those who don't know the official story's "details".

.

Read my post above.

An empty, gutted building of 2.2 million square feet took 3 months to prepare. ONE of the Twin Towers was 6 million square feet.

Think about how ridiculous the concept of being able to rig that in 1-2 weeks, even with the building "closed". Controlled demo requires unfettered access. Even a closed World Trade Center would be fettered, to say the least.

Anyway it's not that I don't believe the government wouldn't do it...but they couldn't. It's not logistically possible, at least for anyone that has even a layman's knowledge of what's involved with controlled demolition. It's a major endeavor that needs to take place in an uninhabited building. That means no people, exposed walls, no furniture -- freedom and access to every beam in the place.

Why the fuck am I even trying to explain simple shit like this? Fuck it.

Here's where you go..."but the building was closed..."

you have to sit and think about what is possible. Is that even an option for you people that want so badly to believe the US government destroyed a New York landmark full of Americans? It must suck to be so disillusioned. Why not move to Canada? Oh, but you're already there, never mind.

[raymor]

Originally Posted by Vjo

Steel doesnt melt till around 2800 degrees

Said as only someone who has never bent steel can say it.
At 1350F, austenite forms and the steel becomes pliable.
By 1400, you can easily bend structural steel by hand.
Even at 700° it's a lot softer than it is at room temp.
If you have a propane torch, try it. When your steel turns red that's 1400F. It will bend easily.

There is also confusion about the IGNITION temperature of fuel, the temp at which it lights, versus the COMBUSTION temperature, or the heat of the flame after it lights. The elevator shafts in the buildings' core with a few thousand gallons of jet fuel poured down would make very large blowtorches. Those could reach 3000°, double the temperature need to turn the core support structure to the consistency of taffy.

The design of the supporting core, which held the elevator shafts and was key to structural integrity, caused the buildings to collapse inward. Don't take my word for it though. Go out in your garage with a torch that burns hydrocarbon fuel. Get a piece of steel a little thicker than you can bend with your hands. Get a sour in the middle red hot with that hydrocarbon torch and see how easily you can bend the steel in half. Try it before arguing any more about it.

Don't burn your house down trying it, though. Have a bucket of water handy.

[ThunderBalls]

Bush's cousin, Marvin Bush was in charge of the company that provided security to the WTC up until the day it collapsed.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...1security.html

[raymor]

If you fpn't have a torch, here's another way to test for yourself in your kitchen. Get an old pan. Frying pan, cookie sheet whatever. Put on the stove by itself on high heat. Come back 15 minutes later. The pan won't be melted to liquid because it didn't reach 2800°, but it'll be all twisted and warped. Try it.

Decide if you'd like to be in a very tall building in which the main supports were twisted and warped like that, as well as softened.

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by raymor

Said as only someone who has never bent steel can say it.
At 1350F, austenite forms and the steel becomes pliable.
By 1400, you can easily bend structural steel by hand.
Even at 700° it's a lot softer than it is at room temp.
If you have a propane torch, try it. When your steel turns red that's 1400F. It will bend easily.

There is also confusion about the IGNITION temperature of fuel, the temp at which it lights, versus the COMBUSTION temperature, or the heat of the flame after it lights. The elevator shafts in the buildings' core with a few thousand gallons of jet fuel poured down would make very large blowtorches. Those could reach 3000°, double the temperature need to turn the core support structure to the consistency of taffy.

The design of the supporting core, which held the elevator shafts and was key to structural integrity, caused the buildings to collapse inward. Don't take my word for it though. Go out in your garage with a torch that burns hydrocarbon fuel. Get a piece of steel a little thicker than you can bend with your hands. Get a sour in the middle red hot with that hydrocarbon torch and see how easily you can bend the steel in half. Try it before arguing any more about it.

Don't burn your house down trying it, though. Have a bucket of water handy.

Good post. That is true except by all accounts no fuel left the very upper floors.

I guess I have to look into further what high carbon building frame steel like the Twin Towers would have. What temp it would melt or sag enough to be weak enough not to suport the INERTIA of the first floors above crashing down say 50 feet at MOST and then pancaking which is what happened.

But since no fuel reached the bottom floors HOW did they sag. I dont believe the lower untouched floor's steel would crumble as it did. It is way stronger than that.

If you seperated a Tower (for sake of argument) at 50 stories and raised the upper 50 stories 100 feet to free fall on the 50 (untouched and structurally sound) stories below, the 50 stories below would NOT crumble or pancake. Would not happen. Maybe the first couple floors only (frames we're talking) would be bent and seriously impacted but the ones under would NOT pancake.

Pancaking is where it ONLY looks like a demolition.

As for the temps, I had heard high carbon building frames can tolerate over 2000 and upwards of 2800 degrees before seriously faulting.

[Makaveli]

Those buildings were rigged to come down that day. Who was behind it we'll never know.

[Ron Bennett]

Originally Posted by Vjo

There is no way the first tower (that collapsed) could collapse on it's own so quickly after being hit. It was the last hit (by the 2nd plane) and the first to go.

The plane hit at a lower point of that tower = more weight above the impact area compared to the other tower. Basic physics; not surprising it would fall first.

Originally Posted by Vjo

Steel doesnt melt till around 2800+ degrees. There is no way the steel frame heated that quickly throughout the building.

Steel loses much of its strength well below its melting point. And that matters a lot in regards to why the towers fell due to how they were built ... see my next response below...

Originally Posted by Vjo

Steel frame structures do not pancake like a house of cards (or exactly like one under demolition).

The towers were tube-frame construction unlike most, especially older, skyscrapers which are box framed construction. The difference is that box-frame is akin to a grid with each floor being supported by numerous internal columns. Whereas, in tube-frame, there is an inner core and the outer walls with few to no internal columns...

Originally Posted by Vjo

Steel structures have burned for many hours and never once fell before. One in Japan was engulfed for over 18 hours and never fell. (as the vid above prob tells, did not view it, no need) This one burned for 45 mins (approx) and collapsed.

The towers, also including building 7, were tube-frame construction verses box-frame ... as the steel weakened from the heat, the floor supports sagged and pulled at the connections between the core and outer walls ...

Eventually, as the stress built up, portions of affected floors began to fall onto the floor beneath. At some point, the load limit of the floors below was reached, starting a cascade of floors falling onto the floors below; pancaking effect.

Originally Posted by Vjo

Acetylene torches are used to melt and cut hardened, high carbon steel (like frames in buildings) at over 2800 degrees, (blue-white flame, acetylene cutting torch, remember shop class?)

Heat up some steel to even half of that for awhile and one sees plainly it loses much of its strength; bends much easier.

Originally Posted by Vjo

Normal fire like the one from Jet fuel burns around 1200 degrees.

Much of the jet fuel was rapidly consumed and hence the temperature it burns at is of little consequence. 1200F is plenty hot enough to ignite materials within the building, which then burned for an extended period of time, weakening the steel, leading to an unstoppable pancaking of floors, and ultimately, the destruction of the buildings.

In short, the difference between tube-frame (Towers 1, 2, and 7), which allowed for large open floor plans, and box-frame (ie. Empire State Building) is ultimately what did the towers in ... lack of structural redundancy / robustness compared to traditional box-frame structures.

Ron

[mattz]

it's not just the "steel melting" you have to take into account that a huge jet just slammed into it

[MediaGuy]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Read my post above.

An empty, gutted building of 2.2 million square feet took 3 months to prepare. ONE of the Twin Towers was 6 million square feet.

Think about how ridiculous the concept of being able to rig that in 1-2 weeks, even with the building "closed". Controlled demo requires unfettered access. Even a closed World Trade Center would be fettered, to say the least.

Anyway it's not that I don't believe the government wouldn't do it...but they couldn't. It's not logistically possible, at least for anyone that has even a layman's knowledge of what's involved with controlled demolition. It's a major endeavor that needs to take place in an uninhabited building. That means no people, exposed walls, no furniture -- freedom and access to every beam in the place.

Why the fuck am I even trying to explain simple shit like this? Fuck it.

Here's where you go..."but the building was closed..."

you have to sit and think about what is possible. Is that even an option for you people that want so badly to believe the US government destroyed a New York landmark full of Americans? It must suck to be so disillusioned. Why not move to Canada? Oh, but you're already there, never mind.

You're talking about a "normal" demolition, engineered to be as safe as possible, protect human life, and wired with conventional explosives.

If the buildings were wired to look like messy attack destruction, those particular rules wouldn't be followed.

Prior to being shut down, the building residents and employees complained of dust/powdery settlements on shelves and desks for weeks. All sorts of "contracts" were being conducted, such as elevator modernization jobs and so on...

Some of these can be verified, some have absolutely no record with the port authority even though the building managers were under the impression that this was going on...

Records misplaced, lost by the disaster, there's just so many little things...

Beyond the fact that all the evidence was simply removed beginning hours after the event, contrary to all fire and air-frame investigation guidelines, including what the FBI referred to as "crime scene" protocols, it's really hard to reconcile things like NIST claiming debris shot horizontally from the WTC towers were what caused such damage to WTC 7 and buildings all around without explaining why such debris was projected this way, especially since their explanation was gravitational collapses which couldn't have shot out such debris.

:D

:D

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Read my post above.

An empty, gutted building of 2.2 million square feet took 3 months to prepare. ONE of the Twin Towers was 6 million square feet.

Think about how ridiculous the concept of being able to rig that in 1-2 weeks, even with the building "closed". Controlled demo requires unfettered access. Even a closed World Trade Center would be fettered, to say the least.

Anyway it's not that I don't believe the government wouldn't do it...but they couldn't. It's not logistically possible, at least for anyone that has even a layman's knowledge of what's involved with controlled demolition. It's a major endeavor that needs to take place in an uninhabited building. That means no people, exposed walls, no furniture -- freedom and access to every beam in the place.

Why the fuck am I even trying to explain simple shit like this? Fuck it.

Here's where you go..."but the building was closed..."

you have to sit and think about what is possible. Is that even an option for you people that want so badly to believe the US government destroyed a New York landmark full of Americans? It must suck to be so disillusioned. Why not move to Canada? Oh, but you're already there, never mind.

Im not picking on you Bronco I usually agree with u but..

It wasnt the government.. it was the owners of the building.. all 3 buildings. Need I say his name. Better not.

Govt had nothing to do with it. They are not even needed to pull it off. WHO has the motive? The govt are victims as I see it. (The Pentegon)

As far as wiring the building's size, seems there were guys in dark clothing wandering around for 3-4 months before by some accounts. And I think they could wire it in 3 months. They wired Bldg 7.

BTW was building 7 occupied by people months before? THAT is the Q. If it was, well they had no prob wiring it with whatever private firm did the job.

I think it could be wired. They wired 7 no prob. And (how convenient) had scheduled the demolition for about the same time as the Twin Towers.

Then as i just read (hadnt heard that) IF they evacuated the Towers for two weeks before well..

[xholly]

Originally Posted by bronco67

One would have to be an idiot to think that 13 million square feet of office space(Twin Towers) could be prepared for controlled demolition, in the busiest section of New York -- when the largest controlled demo for a building ever recorded is 2.2 million square feet -- and that took 3 months with an empty building and an army of engineers to complete.

So some commandos snuck in during workers lunch breaks and threw some timed explosives behind a few desks? Where is the miles of wiring, drilling equipment, etc? Where are the US demolition engineers evil enough to go through with the plan, and also keep quiet about it?

Chew on that.

just consider the amount of people that would have to be involved in this conspiracy. Has a single person ever said they were involved? ever talked about it to their friends etc? secrets are fucking hard things to keep especially when the secret is shared by thousands.