WhiteHouse.gov Student Loan Petition

[heek]

The number of signatures NEEDED has already been passed up 3 times over, but please take a moment, sign up for an account if you haven't already, and add your signature to this petition that was created to the White House to eliminate current student loan debts.

To quote directly from the petition:

Forgiving student loan debt would provide an immediate jolt to the economy by putting hundreds and, in some cases, thousands of extra dollars into the hands of people who WILL spend it - not just once, but each and every month thereafter - freeing them up to invest, buy homes, start businesses and families. This past year, total student loan debt finally surpassed total credit card debt in America, and is on track to exceed $1 TRILLION within the next year. Student loans themselves are responsible for tuition rates that have soared by 439% since 1982 and for saddling entire generations of educated Americans with intractable levels of student loan debt from which there is, seemingly, no escape. Relieve them of this burden and the middle class WILL rebuild this economy from the bottom-up!

Here is the shortlink provided by the WhiteHouse.gov page: http://wh.gov/gpx

14,654 Signatures as of 6:40pm Sep 27, 2011

[Harmon]

More broke people looking for handouts. Pay your bills.

My guess is that your mailbox is filled from collectors trying to get a few bucks from you because you are a deadbeat.

[Wizzo]

Interesting idea for sure.

[L-Pink]

Fuck That! Pay up dead beat.

Student loans are a debt willing taken on to further someones earning potential. Not to mention the abuse that occurs with personal expenses being paid with "educational" loans.

.

[Sly]

If we are eliminating debts/expenses in order to jolt the economy, I can think of many many many ways to do so. I've seen a lot of people slave for years to pay off their loans... I just can't get behind giving everyone left over a clean slate.

Another bailout. Wahoo. Just what we need, more poisoning of our brains.

[heek]

Originally Posted by Harmon

More broke people looking for handouts. Pay your bills.

My guess is that your mailbox is filled from collectors trying to get a few bucks from you because you are a deadbeat.

You're cool

+10 cool points

[L-Pink]

I want to open a Mercedes Benz dealership can I get free money for that too?

The construction phase will jolt the local economy so will the employees I hire.

.

[AzteK]

This is actually a really good idea as long as the people with the student loans are actively working and paying taxes. Remember these are people unlike most of you, that have made the effort to get a college education and are using their education to better the country. This petition makes sense to close the gap for middle class families that couldn't afford sending their children to college.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Fuck That! Pay up dead beat.

Student loans are a debt willing taken on to further someones earning potential. Not to mention the abuse that occurs with personal expenses being paid with "educational" loans.

.

This is true. My brother did this. Took out tons of money for school, then didn't even pay for the school with the money and is now defaulting on both. I hardly see how this would be good for our country.

[PornMD]

Fuck, if that's supposedly a valid idea, why not forgive credit card debt then if that amount is less?

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by PornMD

Fuck, if that's supposedly a valid idea, why not forgive credit card debt then if that amount is less?

Right? Clean everybody's credit rating and let everybody go spending again. It should stimulate the economy for the better...

[Sly]

Originally Posted by PornMD

Fuck, if that's supposedly a valid idea, why not forgive credit card debt then if that amount is less?

Imagine how much money would be injected into the economy if there was a 24 month mortgage holiday.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Sly

Imagine how much money would be injected into the economy if there was a 24 month mortgage holiday.

Inflated bullshit money, because after a 24 month mortgage holiday... dumb motherfuckers would be so untrained to ay their mortgage that it would repeat itself.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Sly

This is true. My brother did this. Took out tons of money for school, then didn't even pay for the school with the money and is now defaulting on both. I hardly see how this would be good for our country.

Exactly, I know a girl that defaulted on 2 student loans. The first was her and her ex-husband using the money for a house down payment. The second was for a used car.

.

[TheDoc]

Forgiving it? No way... I can't see that happening even if they had 300 million signatures and it shouldn't happen.

Depending on the conditions, I would support a deferment, which you can get for various reasons already.

Credit wise, school loans do little to nothing to help your credit, however they can burn your credit. As well, they factor into a home loan as total money going out vs. income. Overall, credit wise, they're about the lowest on the scale as you can get.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Inflated bullshit money, because after a 24 month mortgage holiday... dumb motherfuckers would be so untrained to ay their mortgage that it would repeat itself.

At that time we could wipe credit debt clean, releasing all sorts of other money into the economy, and also giving those homeowners money to start paying their mortgage again.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Sly

At that time we could wipe credit debt clean, releasing all sorts of other money into the economy, and also giving those homeowners money to start paying their mortgage again.

Yes, but they would have to continue paying off the credit "given" to them while their mortgages kicked back in. In theory it sounds good, but in practicality I think it would be more or less just buying time.

[AzteK]

Originally Posted by PornMD

Fuck, if that's supposedly a valid idea, why not forgive credit card debt then if that amount is less?

Because people used the money to educate themselves. Not to buy shoes, tv's and clothes...

[TheDoc]

The current recession and housing b.s. has sparked Americans to pay off credit cards... I don't remember what the average cc debt was now, but I do remember it's dropping.

Clearly, Americans got the message.... maybe some twisted method would work, but I still wouldn't ever support them totally forgiving it.

[looky_lou]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Exactly, I know a girl that defaulted on 2 student loans. The first was her and her ex-husband using the money for a house down payment. The second was for a used car.

.

How exactly did they default on the student loans? Student loans are not discharge-able in bankruptcy. They have to be paid no matter what, just like taxes. No way of getting out of them.

They may be behind on payments, but they did not get out of the loans.

[woj]

Stupidest idea I've heard in years...

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Yes, but they would have to continue paying off the credit "given" to them while their mortgages kicked back in. In theory it sounds good, but in practicality I think it would be more or less just buying time.

Nah that's when the government steps up and gives everyone a huge bonus just for being American.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by looky_lou

How exactly did they default on the student loans? Student loans are not discharge-able in bankruptcy. They have to be paid no matter what, just like taxes. No way of getting out of them.

They may be behind on payments, but they did not get out of the loans.

They're low life's that viewed the loans as free money. When she lived with me they tracked her down but she just ignored all correspondence.

.

[Rochard]

I still owe money on my college loan, so, um.... I'll sign up.

[Rochard]

All done!

[TylerBang]

Originally Posted by AzteK

This is actually a really good idea as long as the people with the student loans are actively working and paying taxes. Remember these are people unlike most of you, that have made the effort to get a college education and are using their education to better the country. This petition makes sense to close the gap for middle class families that couldn't afford sending their children to college.

The "student loan industry" is basically the banking industry, the loans are bundled and sold/resold over and over just like real estate paper. They hope you never pay it off because the interest keeps accruing as penalties multiply.

They are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, while IBill fucks can declare bankruptcy and then
start over.
Student loans are taken by people who otherwise can't get an education (not the children of the wealthy) so the negative effect is skewed.

Making them dischargeable under regulated circumstance just makes sense.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by TylerBang

Making them dischargeable under regulated circumstance just makes sense.

I disagree. What makes sense is having the monies paid directly to the educators not the students. This would stop a lot of the abuse and limit the loans to education vs living expenses.

As far as having the loans dischargeable under bankruptcy laws any student worth his education would know to declare bankruptcy soon after getting the loan. Big deal if your credit is a mess when you're 23-25 years old if you get to start your career debt free.

Funding would dry up quickly.

.

[tony286]

they shouldnt forgive them, they should allow one 5 yr freeze. That you can only do once during the life of the loan. You got some kid out of school with a mountain of school loans and can only find work at starbucks for now. Its not going to get paid. things will get better then unfreeze and payments can start. We wont get in to the scam schools that rat fuck these students and there is close to no gov regulation on it.

[tony286]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...llegeinc/view/
it will make u physically ill. They are fucking people with the promise of a better life.

[kane]

Originally Posted by TylerBang

The "student loan industry" is basically the banking industry, the loans are bundled and sold/resold over and over just like real estate paper. They hope you never pay it off because the interest keeps accruing as penalties multiply.

They are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, while IBill fucks can declare bankruptcy and then
start over.
Student loans are taken by people who otherwise can't get an education (not the children of the wealthy) so the negative effect is skewed.

Making them dischargeable under regulated circumstance just makes sense.

This is a good example of how there are two sets of rules for different groups in this country. A few weeks ago on Bill Maher he had a Tea Party guy on who said that this country has socialism for the very poor and socialism for the very rich and those in the middle are left to fight it out in a warped, fucked up version of capitalism.

I can form a company, convince a bank to loan me money to start a business and then run that business into the ground and bankrupt it. I can then bankrupt the company and walk away from the debt. All the while my personal assets will never be in jeopardy.

However, if I take out a student loan that loan balance is with me for life no matter what circumstances may occur. Not to mention the fact that I will likely repay 4-5 times or more than I borrow.

Maybe this makes me sound like a tin foil hat wearer, but I have started to think that the cost of education keeps going up because our leadership wants good, controlled, in debt worker bees who aren't going to do too much too change the status quot. If you get out of college, get married, have a kid or two and settle down you have some serious debt so you need the job you have. You won't make too many waves for fear of losing what you have.

If you are young, debt free and have a positive cash flow you are trouble waiting to happen for a politician.

[kane]

Originally Posted by tony286

they shouldnt forgive them, they should allow one 5 yr freeze. That you can only do once during the life of the loan. You got some kid out of school with a mountain of school loans and can only find work at starbucks for now. Its not going to get paid. things will get better then unfreeze and payments can start. We wont get in to the scam schools that rat fuck these students and there is close to no gov regulation on it.

This is a fair idea. Or allow for a restructure of the debt so that the interest rate is very very low and the payments are very small.

I have a friend that got out of college and the job he was able to get wouldn't allow him to live and pay back his student loan at the same time. they restructured his loan to lower the payment, but now the total he will pay back is obscene. He borrowed a total of 60K. When it is all said and done he will pay back almost 400K.

[TylerBang]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

I disagree... any student worth his education would know to declare bankruptcy soon after getting the loan. Big deal if your credit is a mess when you're 23-25 years old if you get to start your career debt free.

Funding would dry up quickly.

.

That's what I mean by 'regulated circumstance'.
That would be one of them. A buffer period for example.

[kane]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

I disagree. What makes sense is having the monies paid directly to the educators not the students. This would stop a lot of the abuse and limit the loans to education vs living expenses.

As far as having the loans dischargeable under bankruptcy laws any student worth his education would know to declare bankruptcy soon after getting the loan. Big deal if your credit is a mess when you're 23-25 years old if you get to start your career debt free.

Funding would dry up quickly.

.

You almost have to allow for living expenses of some sort in a student loan. If you are going to a university and taking a full time class load you will have very little time to get a job to pay for food and other living expenses. Sure, people will take advantage of it and abuse it, but a lot of students do it so they can buy food, pay for gas for their car and be able to focus on getting good grades and learning as much as possible.

The main problem is how expensive it is to get a degree. A friend of mine's son just started his freshman year. He is getting the state resident discount. After tuition, dorm costs, books and fees it is almost 22K per year. His parents have told him they will send him some extra money for food and other stuff so best case scenario for him is that he will come out of this 88K in debt. That seems crazy to me.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by kane

I can form a company, convince a bank to loan me money to start a business and then run that business into the ground and bankrupt it. I can then bankrupt the company and walk away from the debt. All the while my personal assets will never be in jeopardy.

Are you sure about that?

I have a corp. I can't just run around willy nilly and spend money that I don't have, declare bankruptcy, and then stroll off into the sunset. I am still held responsible.

I realize that it happens, but there's a little more to it than that.

[raymor]

And as for those who worked and saved their money, investing it in the institutions that made the loans? The people who actually worked for it just get fucked out of their money?

[kane]

Originally Posted by Sly

Are you sure about that?

I have a corp. I can't just run around willy nilly and spend money that I don't have, declare bankruptcy, and then stroll off into the sunset. I am still held responsible.

I realize that it happens, but there's a little more to it than that.

If your business is incorporated and it fails you can declare bankruptcy. If the business goes out of business the creditors will take any and all assets the business has, but as long as you set it up correctly they will not be able to touch your personal assets.

Now I may have overstated things in one area. If you personally do something that is considered reckless and causes the downfall of the company creditors or other investors/shareholders could sue you personally, but they would have to prove that whatever you did caused the destruction of the company.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by kane

If your business is incorporated and it fails you can declare bankruptcy. If the business goes out of business the creditors will take any and all assets the business has, but as long as you set it up correctly they will not be able to touch your personal assets.

Now I may have overstated things in one area. If you personally do something that is considered reckless and causes the downfall of the company creditors or other investors/shareholders could sue you personally, but they would have to prove that whatever you did caused the destruction of the company.

Business wise, almost all lines of credits at banks today have a personal guarantee on them now. Bankrupting the company doesn't clear that debt, it transfers it to you, personally. If you are married, they can take the money from either of you as well, directly from your check, before you get paid, legally, even if the other person never owned the company. The way around this is collateral, which again, they take if you default.

Adding to that: Point being, they wont let you bankrupt shit anymore unless you are truly bankrupt, even personally. If you can pay it personally, a judge just transfers the debt to you, even b2b owed money.

[Barry-xlovecam]

College tuition costs ...

"A closely related issue is the alarming increase in student borrowing to finance college education and resulting student loan debt. In the 2007-2008 National Postsecondary Student Aid Study (NPSAS), the median cumulative debt among graduating 4-year undergraduate students was $19,999; one quarter borrowed $30,526 or more, and one tenth borrowed $44,668 or more.[45] In fact, for the first time in the history of America, 'Student Loan' debt has surpassed 'Credit Card' debt.[9]"

I think that there should be forbearance ( a moratorium on debt ) as well as an interest forgiveness possible for persons that have attained college degrees with student loans and are unable to secure employment at the level of their education for reason of the current economic situation.

I wouldn't feel treated fairly if having incurred a $30K or $40K debt for my education and being forced to take a job as a food hander or work as a sales clerk at a big box retailer and try to repay a unmanageable debt that seemingly has not been of any benefit.

Note that I said forbearance and not discharge -- in the event that the college graduate should secure employment at the higher salary level that his degree should bring he should be required to repay the loan as he has benefited from it.

[pumpercloggs]

This will never happen, it sets a precedent which could never be reversed.

Not to mention, this guarantees the enslavement of 1000's of people. That leaves them with less people to worry about enslaving.

[PornMD]

Originally Posted by AzteK

Because people used the money to educate themselves. Not to buy shoes, tv's and clothes...

It's pointless to consider either possibility since neither would ever realistically happen, but let's look:

1. If student loans were forgiven, what do you think the money would be spent on? Not much different than what CC-forgiven debt money would be spent on.

2. This is just a guess but considering the higher interest rates on CCs than on student loans, forgiving CC debt would ultimately pump more into the economy as there'd be less money being wasted on interest.

3. Let's say there'd be 2 possibilities with discharging CC debt: Those CCs are then closed, or those CCs remain open. If they are closed, then it finally gets a bunch of people off of spending outside their means. If they remain open, then yes the debt could be built back up, but look at all the spending that could happen.

Anyways, most of that is devil's advocate talking - neither would ever happen. Perhaps a "mortgage holiday" as someone mentioned could be possible, which I think would be better given how many people are ridiculously in debt and how foreclosures aren't really sought after by banks especially in underwater situations. Who knows.

[kane]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Business wise, almost all lines of credits at banks today have a personal guarantee on them now. Bankrupting the company doesn't clear that debt, it transfers it to you, personally. If you are married, they can take the money from either of you as well, directly from your check, before you get paid, legally, even if the other person never owned the company. The way around this is collateral, which again, they take if you default.

Adding to that: Point being, they wont let you bankrupt shit anymore unless you are truly bankrupt, even personally. If you can pay it personally, a judge just transfers the debt to you, even b2b owed money.

In the end I am oversimplifying my statement, but there are a lot of loopholes and things a person can do with company to avoid having their personal property attached to a corporate bankruptcy. I was reading a little while ago about hedge fund guys setting up corps that they used strictly for trading so if they lost and ended up in the negative they could collapse the company and walk away. Of course those are guys who have access to some of the best tax and corporate lawyers in the world, they aren't your typical mom and pop who take out a loan in hopes of opening a cafe that doesn't work out.

It is getting harder to borrow money for a start-up without a personal guarantee, like you say, but the odds of losing on a business, being able to bankrupt the business and keep your personal assets are a lot higher than taking a student loan, defaulting and trying to get out of paying it.

[MiaLelani_SocalCamCash]

Thanks for making me aware. Heading to sign the petition now

[raymor]

Originally Posted by MiaLelani_SocalCamCash

Thanks for making me aware. Heading to sign the petition now

So you think the money I've been working for and saving, which had been loaned to people for school, should just be stolen from me?

[epitome]

Originally Posted by kane

You almost have to allow for living expenses of some sort in a student loan. If you are going to a university and taking a full time class load you will have very little time to get a job to pay for food and other living expenses. Sure, people will take advantage of it and abuse it, but a lot of students do it so they can buy food, pay for gas for their car and be able to focus on getting good grades and learning as much as possible.

The main problem is how expensive it is to get a degree. A friend of mine's son just started his freshman year. He is getting the state resident discount. After tuition, dorm costs, books and fees it is almost 22K per year. His parents have told him they will send him some extra money for food and other stuff so best case scenario for him is that he will come out of this 88K in debt. That seems crazy to me.

I know kids who bust their asses in college and then take on three summer jobs so they have enough to live for the year. Students not doing that aren't taking their education seriously. How hard is it to lifeguard, work at Hollister and cut grass when its the only things you have to do for a few months?

Those same kids will take that work ethic into their careers and succeed while the others that borrowed their living expenses will sit on Facebook at their $40k a year job bitching about work.

Survival of the fittest.

[kane]

Originally Posted by raymor

So you think the money I've been working for and saving, which had been loaned to people for school, should just be stolen from me?

The money you have been paying in taxes is wasted in many different ways. Would you rather it be used to let a student off from paying his/her student loan or given to a government that likely hates the US and is trying to attack us?

Or given to a bank filled with multimillionaires who ran their business unwisely and destroyed it then scared the shit out the country and got paid off?

Or used to give free food, shelter and medical care to illegal immigrants.

Or used to help fund the current presidents fund raising activites as he flies all over the nation raising money for the next election?

Or just given to states and cities who end up squandering on projects that they don't need or never actually do.

Or give it to businesses who do nothing but put it in their pockets and sit on it instead of hiring and expanding.

Or give it to farms and pay them to not grow any crops

Or give it to the FCC who spend more than $350K per year to sponsor a NASCAR driver.

Or use it to spend $1.8 million dollars to build a private golf course in Atlanta.

and the list goes on and on and on.

[kane]

Originally Posted by epitome

I know kids who bust their asses in college and then take on three summer jobs so they have enough to live for the year. Students not doing that aren't taking their education seriously. How hard is it to lifeguard, work at Hollister and cut grass when its the only things you have to do for a few months?

Those same kids will take that work ethic into their careers and succeed while the others that borrowed their living expenses will sit on Facebook at their $40k a year job bitching about work.

Survival of the fittest.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it can't be done. Hell, a friend of mine got out of the Marine Corp and was married with a young child. He worked a full time job during the day and went to school full time at night to get his degree. He was worn out and it wasn't easy, but he did it.

Many kids do just as you say. They come home and work through temp agencies or wherever to save as much money as they can for the school year and they will be rewarded with less student loans, real work experience, a solid work ethic and the respect of their friends and family etc.

But there are a lot of factors that can come into play. Take for example a friend of mine's son who just started college this fall compared to another friend of mine's daughter who will be a junior this year. She is majoring in history with a minor in education. Her class load is big, but not so intense that she couldn't get a part time job. He is studying chemical engineering. Just the classes and labs he has are 50+ hours per week. He could still get a part time job, but if he had the choice of working and being constantly tired which could cause him problems with his grades or taking out a few hundred a month extra in student loans so he had some extra money to live on and he was free to focus on school, I don't see a problem with that. He could still come home and get a job on summer vacation, but he likely will not make enough to last him the full school year and this just gives him another option. I'm not saying that a student should be allowed to borrow an extra $3K per month, that is crazy, but some extra cash to help them get by isn't a terrible thing. After all, you are only young once. If you have the chance you might as well enjoy it. You have the rest of your life to work your ass off.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by kane

If your business is incorporated and it fails you can declare bankruptcy. If the business goes out of business the creditors will take any and all assets the business has, but as long as you set it up correctly they will not be able to touch your personal assets.

Now I may have overstated things in one area. If you personally do something that is considered reckless and causes the downfall of the company creditors or other investors/shareholders could sue you personally, but they would have to prove that whatever you did caused the destruction of the company.

And what way is "setting up correctly?"

You have to put yourself on the line to get that corporate credit. Companies don't just magically get credit. It comes from somewhere. Personal assurances. You are still responsible for that debt. I am personally responsible for both the taxes and the debt of my corp.

Now if we are talking about a Fortune 500 company that is publicly traded and owns Wall Street... you might have a point. For almost every other corporation, you do not.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by epitome

I know kids who bust their asses in college and then take on three summer jobs so they have enough to live for the year. Students not doing that aren't taking their education seriously. How hard is it to lifeguard, work at Hollister and cut grass when its the only things you have to do for a few months?

Those same kids will take that work ethic into their careers and succeed while the others that borrowed their living expenses will sit on Facebook at their $40k a year job bitching about work.

Survival of the fittest.

When I was at the college age... every single one of my friends was broke, worked at least 30 hours a week, went to school full time, studied part-time, and partied the rest of the time. I have absolutely no idea why college kids of today (only eight years later) should get off any different. This is how life works.

I've seen proposals about a gradually increasing loan payback program. At the beginning you pay a little because odds are you make little with your first job, overtime you pay more. This is not a bad idea, though the interest would definitely need to be figured out. Paying such a low amount at the beginning could really jack up the overall price long-term in a huge way.

[Phoenix]

i dont support this sort of thing at all.
i paid back all my loans for school. It really sucked actually for awhile.
If i hadn't gotten into porn, or doing my own business, perhaps id still be making payments on it. That being said, i think it develops character and will push people into trying harder.

So if you take the money to get ahead in life...pay it back, once you do.

i wouldnt mind seeing it get harder to affect credit ratings though for student loans

[woj]

Originally Posted by Sly

When I was at the college age... every single one of my friends was broke, worked at least 30 hours a week, went to school full time, studied part-time, and partied the rest of the time. I have absolutely no idea why college kids of today (only eight years later) should get off any different. This is how life works.

I've seen proposals about a gradually increasing loan payback program. At the beginning you pay a little because odds are you make little with your first job, overtime you pay more. This is not a bad idea, though the interest would definitely need to be figured out. Paying such a low amount at the beginning could really jack up the overall price long-term in a huge way.

That's exactly how it worked when I was in school too... and looking back to it, it wasn't even THAT hard...