Best piece of commentary all week! Obama and OWS people are welcome!

[sperbonzo]

Here is a Brilliant piece of commentary for both of you. Best 10 minutes you will spend all week. This is NOT saying that Bush was good, quite the contrary, but to those who think that Obama and the OWS movement is "Oh so wonderful", here are some observations of current events...

[Failed]

I'm not sure why you're linking Obama and the OWS movement, they have nothing to do with one another.

I've seen you in post after post trying to define what the OWS movement is, who the people are, and why the whole thing is bad. I think what you fail to realize is that these are individuals protesting, from all walks of life, for many different reasons. This is not one unit with a single mind and single agenda as the media, and you, try to spin it.

Why are you afraid or against people protesting, being Americans?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Failed

I'm not sure why you're linking Obama and the OWS movement, they have nothing to do with one another.

I've seen you in post after post trying to define what the OWS movement is, who the people are, and why the whole thing is bad. I think what you fail to realize is that these are individuals protesting, from all walks of life, for many different reasons. This is not one unit with a single mind and single agenda as the media, and you, try to spin it.

Why are you afraid or against people protesting, being Americans?

He is only for protesting when they agree with him. lol Michael tell your lovely wife hello from me

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Failed

I'm not sure why you're linking Obama and the OWS movement, they have nothing to do with one another.

I've seen you in post after post trying to define what the OWS movement is, who the people are, and why the whole thing is bad. I think what you fail to realize is that these are individuals protesting, from all walks of life, for many different reasons. This is not one unit with a single mind and single agenda as the media, and you, try to spin it.

Why are you afraid or against people protesting, being Americans?

I have no problem at all with protest, and there has been a conversation going on about this one for weeks. I went down to the one here in Miami, and talked to people, I have gleened as many viewpoints as I can in order to find out what the prevailing message is, and I have a problem with the fact that the protest is going after the wrong people. The point of a protest, is to get people to pay attention to an issue and debate it's merits. Ok, so here I am debating. All the people I talked to down here at the occupy miami rally wanted the government, particularly this administration, to stay in power and take over more and more of how the voluntary interactions between people (i.e. business), is done, and they wanted THIS administration to do it for them.

The reason why this is a republic, and not a pure democracy, is to prevent people from voting away the rights of a minority, (no matter how that is defined). The fact that this movement wants the government to interfere and grow it's power on every level of human interaction is quite scary to me. Totalitarianism grows from such movements.

That's my personal viewpoint, and debates of our views is what protests are supposed to encourage.



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[Failed]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

That's my personal viewpoint, and debates of our views is what protests are supposed to encourage.

The people in Miami, the ones you spoke with, may have different views than those in NY, and everywhere else. I'm sure they even differ within the Miami movement. This is no American Autumn as said in the video. But, we are debating our views because of this protest, you're right! That's a good thing, right? We're actually taking a hard look at the ongoing issues in America!

So, why continue to bad mouth the movements? Let them protest whatever the hell they want, we're talking and shedding light on some real issues because of their efforts. This is all good, for everybody.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Failed

The people in Miami, the ones you spoke with, may have different views than those in NY, and everywhere else. I'm sure they even differ within the Miami movement. This is no American Autumn as said in the video. But, we are debating our views because of this protest, you're right! That's a good thing, right? We're actually taking a hard look at the ongoing issues in America!

So, why continue to bad mouth the movements? Let them protest whatever the hell they want, we're talking and shedding light on some real issues because of their efforts. This is all good, for everybody.

I disagree with the movement. That's my right. It's also not "bad mouthing". I'm not calling them names, or making slanderous remarks. I'M DISAGREEING with their view.


Also, I have watched and read as much as I can from the OWS sources themselves in coming to my conclusions as to their general aims and goals.



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[Sly]

Originally Posted by Failed

So, why continue to bad mouth the movements? Let them protest whatever the hell they want, we're talking and shedding light on some real issues because of their efforts. This is all good, for everybody.

These are the same sort of people that are in the Tea Party. Yeh, there are probably quite a few that are knowledgeable, have some good ideas, and have somewhat of a concept as to what should be done and how it should be done. But that is not the average person. The average person doesn't have much knowledge about a subject like this, much less the knowledge as to how to invoke change.

If these people, and the Tea Party, want to act like nuts, totally their right. But none of them should be surprised when they get called nuts.

[madm1k3]

Occupy Wall Street doesn't have one theme or message because it hasn't been organized by one political faction or corporate interest. This is hard for people to accept because they need a simple message to repeat or they really don't know what to think. Unlike the tea party movement there is no clear cut enemy (obama) so it’s easy for anti OWS pundits to make the protest look disorganized and irrelevant.

The best thing for OWS to do is model the tea party and get billionaire backers like the Koch brothers that can buy the movement some much needed media and political capital. However this would go against the principles of the protests.

From my own research OWS comes down to this:

Corporations like Citigroup, AIG, and others are part of the political thinking that believes the free market should determine regulations, salaries, profits etc. By taking an undisclosed amount of tax payer’s money (Tarp numbers are bullshit) the corporations have broken the free market model themselves and created a socialist corporate environment with a government safety net. So the tax payer has now basically nationalized these corporations, but the corporations still get the benefits of a free market.

This is a complex problem that can`t be solved by saying lower taxes! Smaller government! Bomb Iran! Therefore it is not media friendly which makes most Americans afraid.

The reason they trust Obama over the republicans is the protests are in New York, an international city with high immigration, strict gun laws, and a diverse population (3 things republicans despise). Also there are a high number of protesters who are under 40 that protested the Iraq war in the crowds, needless to say they were lied to by Bush about Iraq and that will alter their voting habits for at least the next 10 years.

That’s my take on this

[sperbonzo]

By contrast, Failed, did you object to all the mud-slinging going on on this board regarding the tea party protests? There was no substantive debate, simply insults. It seemed like it was the left that had a problem with demonstrations, eh Tony?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

By contrast, Failed, did you object to all the mud-slinging going on on this board regarding the tea party protests? There was no substantive debate, simply insults. It seemed like it was the left that had a problem with demonstrations, eh Tony?

Demonstrations no problem, carrying guns and talking about second amendment solutions I have a problem and people bitching about being taxed too much when this president has lowered their taxes is not honest.

[blackmonsters]

If only this guy would build a sponsor and shoot content and make hosted galleries
as much as he makes these post.

1997 again!

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by tony286

Demonstrations no problem, carrying guns and talking about second amendment solutions I have a problem and people bitching about being taxed too much when this president has lowered their taxes is not honest.

We can agree to disagree about the tax issue, and there are plenty of ideas raised by the OWS people that are completely dishonest by the same logic, but talking about carrying guns should ne contrasted to the OWS people talking about violent evolution and beheading bankers.

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[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

If only this guy would build a sponsor and shoot content and make hosted galleries
as much as he makes these post.

1997 again!

Are you talking about BFTK?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by tony286

Demonstrations no problem, carrying guns and talking about second amendment solutions I have a problem and people bitching about being taxed too much when this president has lowered their taxes is not honest.

LOL well politicians have gotten letters saying that bankers should be killed.

That may not be carrying guns... but... come on.

[12clicks]

There's a certain type of person who organizes, peacefully protests, and elect politicians who agree with their values and another type of person who camps out for days in their own filth demanding things they refuse to work for.

and then there are the sort of people who think each of these groups are right.
one side comes off as more intelligent.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

There's a certain type of person who organizes, peacefully protests, and elect politicians who agree with their values and another type of person who camps out for days in their own filth demanding things they refuse to work for.

and then there are the sort of people who think each of these groups are right.
one side comes off as more intelligent.

Those people camping out in their own filth, demanding things they ARE working for, have organized, peacefully protested, and will no doubt elect a politician who agrees with their values. I'm glad you've seen their point of view and are here to respect that.

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

By contrast, Failed, did you object to all the mud-slinging going on on this board regarding the tea party protests? There was no substantive debate, simply insults. It seemed like it was the left that had a problem with demonstrations, eh Tony?

I didn't say a word about the tea party protests. They have the same right as these protesters. I didn't post propaganda against the tea party protests, nor lump them in with one political figure, nor assume they all have the same mentality. So yeah, between you and I on these issues, there is definitely some contrast.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Failed

Those people camping out in their own filth, demanding things they ARE working for, have organized, peacefully protested, and will no doubt elect a politician who agrees with their values. I'm glad you've seen their point of view and are here to respect that.

as long as they obey the law and don't block traffic, they're useful idiots.
I can point to them while explaining to my children how best to succeed in life and how best to fail.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Are you talking about BFTK?

Until now I didn't even post in this thread yet, so it's funny I was called out...

but alas, it is true... I need to hire a graphics guy to churn out tools, no doubt.

The Tea Party people are still idiots though. Don't they realize if a Republitard is voted in, they will no longer have a movement?

Remember when they were all up-in-arms when the last administration was totally destroying America? No? Me either...

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

There's a certain type of person who organizes, peacefully protests, and elect politicians who agree with their values and another type of person who camps out for days in their own filth demanding things they refuse to work for.

and then there are the sort of people who think each of these groups are right.
one side comes off as more intelligent.

And then there are the sort of delusional people who believe they are part of the American elite, even though they are sad, alone, and pathetic. I like to call those people 12clicks!

[CaptainHowdy]

OWS = Organized resentment ...

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

And then there are the sort of delusional people who believe they are part of the American elite, even though they are sad, alone, and pathetic. I like to call those people 12clicks!

I know the top 1% seems to rabble like you the same as saying " a million gazillion" but trust me, amongst the intelligent, its really not that hard to achieve.

[_Richard_]

guess adam is no longer silent dancing in gov buildings?

[RyuLion]

Yo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

guess adam is no longer silent dancing in gov buildings?

.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by madm1k3

The best thing for OWS to do is model the tea party and get billionaire backers like the Koch brothers that can buy the movement some much needed media and political capital. However this would go against the principles of the protests.

I find that observation somewhat naive. If you don't think that Soro's and big union money is involved..... I don't know what to do about that, you obviously have a very narrow world view on this. As for the "media capital" that The Koch brothers bought, I guess they didn't do nearly as well as this movement is doing:



And the difference in coverage is pretty staggering. The MSM was constantly labeling the Tea Party as racist, from the very beginning, and questioning their grass roots origins, meanwhile I would challenge you to find any kind of hard questions being asked by those networks regarding this movement, or the big labor money involved. Remember CNN reporter Susan Roesgen shouting at the tea party guy carrying his toddler on his hip, about state aid from the feds, then cutting off the broadcast by saying "this is not family viewing"? The Koch Brothers didn't get much bang for their buck, compared to these guys IMO.

And BFTK, I was simply responding to Blackmonsters' implication that I post about politics too much. It cracks me up that people call me on that, when you post about 5 political posts every single day, and not a peep!





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[tony286]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I find that observation somewhat naive. If you don't think that Soro's and big union money is involved..... I don't know what to do about that, you obviously have a very narrow world view on this. As for the "media capital" that The Koch brothers bought, I guess they didn't do nearly as well as this movement is doing:



And the difference in coverage is pretty staggering. The MSM was constantly labeling the Tea Party as racist, from the very beginning, and questioning their grass roots origins, meanwhile I would challenge you to find any kind of hard questions being asked by those networks regarding this movement, or the big labor money involved. Remember CNN reporter Susan Roesgen shouting at the tea party guy carrying his toddler on his hip, about state aid from the feds, then cutting off the broadcast by saying "this is not family viewing"? The Koch Brothers didn't get much bang for their buck, compared to these guys IMO.

And BFTK, I was simply responding to Blackmonsters' implication that I post about politics too much. It cracks me up that people call me on that, when you post about 5 political posts every single day, and not a peep!







.

Here you go
http://mediamatters.org/reports/200904080025

And "liberal media" didnt follow any of it until the police started macing people. Unions are dying you are going to have to come up with a new boogie man they rep less than 12 % of the work force.
Yeah they are funding it but no big stages or buses like at the tea party rallies. Hmmm
You are too funny

[tony286]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...overage/43013/
Media Non-Coverage of Occupy Wall Street Gets Lots of Media Coverage

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by tony286

Here you go
http://mediamatters.org/reports/200904080025

And "liberal media" didnt follow any of it until the police started macing people. Unions are dying you are going to have to come up with a new boogie man they rep less than 12 % of the work force.
Yeah they are funding it but no big stages or buses like at the tea party rallies. Hmmm
You are too funny

Please show me the buses at the tea party rallies. I've been to many, from the beginning, in Nov 08, when the first TARP passed, as well as the big one in DC, and myself, and everyone I talked to, all arranged for our own transport, made our own signs, and paid for our own hotels.


and did you notice that the table show the difference in 9 MONTHS of tea party rally coverage as apposed to ONE WEEK of OWS coverage, and that was after the proests had been going for only two or three weeks?



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