Any "12 Steppers"... Question?

[CurrentlySober]

Is it OK to use CM Punk from WWE as my 'Higher Power' ???

[anexsia]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Is it OK to use CM Punk from WWE as my 'Higher Power' ???

Yup, I used my pet Beagle as my higher power for NA meetings.

[anexsia]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Is it OK to use CM Punk from WWE as my 'Higher Power' ???

Btw, quick poop question. I love ordering pizza with Jalapeno toppings but the next morning when I go to take a shit, my ass is always on fire like I'm shitting out whole jalapenos...anyway to prevent my morning poop from burning like that? Thanks!

[DEA]

[TheSquealer]

No, but its ok to joke about this until someone finds you dead in a puddle of your own vomit on your bathroom floor.

[lazycash]

[anexsia]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

No, but its ok to joke about this until someone finds you dead in a puddle of your own vomit on your bathroom floor.

I used to hear jokes like this all the time at NA/AA meetings, it's a lot better hearing people joke about it then seeing them nodding out and not talking at all from being to blasted to participate at all.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by anexsia

Btw, quick poop question. I love ordering pizza with Jalapeno toppings but the next morning when I go to take a shit, my ass is always on fire like I'm shitting out whole jalapenos...anyway to prevent my morning poop from burning like that? Thanks!

SORRY - Serious thread - Sorry - Please post your own thread on poo and I shall indulge you till your hearts content...

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

No, but its ok to joke about this until someone finds you dead in a puddle of your own vomit on your bathroom floor.

If you mean the others - Fair play. If you mean me - Not joking.

Originally Posted by lazycash

Why do you think I post about poo all the time? Seriously?

Because I REALLY LIKE IT? Or because I have had a relapse into alcohol dependancy?

[Grapesoda]

as long as you ain't yer higher power all is well

[Lucy - CSC]

One of my friends goes to AA and I asked her what her 'higher power' is. She says that now she views herself at one with the world as opposed to previously being her against the world and that is her 'higher power'.

Works for her anyway.

[Jel]

fate, god, karma, mother nature, love, the force - doesn't matter what/who you use imho.

[LatinaCrazy]

And this too shall pass

[LatinaCrazy]

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

One of my friends goes to AA and I asked her what her 'higher power' is. She says that now she views herself at one with the world as opposed to previously being her against the world and that is her 'higher power'.

Works for her anyway.

I actually understand that! Wow the changes one has in life!

[Jel]

fwiw the purpose of believing, or coming to believe, in a higher power, is so those in recovery get to grips with the fact that we ourselves aren't in control of everything, much as we'd like to be. That's the way I interpret it anyways.

[Lucy - CSC]

Originally Posted by LatinaCrazy

I actually understand that! Wow the changes one has in life!

I tried some of the stuff she said and this one I find great.

Every person you meet you must only think about how similiar you are to them, everyone. Totally discard any differences race, religion etc and just think about how similiar you are to them. Makes you look at the world through a new pair of eyes!

[raymor]

Yes. Also try this on and see how it fits -
whatever power it is that's working for other people might just work for you too. No need to define that power or give it any other name than "HP".

Another way of saying almost the same thing would be to say "SOMETHING has worked for Ray for fifteen years. Whatever that something is, I want it too." Just as long as you realize it's not YOU.

What I did was I got on my knees and said something like this:

God, Budda, Allah, whatever your name is, I don't know if you even exist. If you DO exist, I'd like to know. Whatever power there may be in the universe, I want you in my life.

After doing that daily for about 30 days, someone else came up to me at a random time and place and ask me how to find God. Clearly something was working in my life, they said, and they wanted that power in their life. I looked around and realized they were right. Some sort of higher power or God was clearly present in my life, and I hadn't even given it a name. I just invited it in, and it came in.

[Vjo]

maybe you just need a new drug



in the meantime



then again it's



hope you're feeling better



hope you're feeling good



after all you could live in a high rise like me



keep the faith

[BIGTYMER]

I can't afford a higher power.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by Jel

fate, god, karma, mother nature, love, the force - doesn't matter what/who you use imho.

Originally Posted by Jel

fwiw the purpose of believing, or coming to believe, in a higher power, is so those in recovery get to grips with the fact that we ourselves aren't in control of everything, much as we'd like to be. That's the way I interpret it anyways.

Originally Posted by raymor

Yes. Also try this on and see how it fits -
whatever power it is that's working for other people might just work for you too. No need to define that power or give it any other name than "HP".

Another way of saying almost the same thing would be to say "SOMETHING has worked for Ray for fifteen years. Whatever that something is, I want it too." Just as long as you realize it's not YOU.

What I did was I got on my knees and said something like this:


After doing that daily for about 30 days, someone else came up to me at a random time and place and ask me how to find God. Clearly something was working in my life, they said, and they wanted that power in their life. I looked around and realized they were right. Some sort of higher power or God was clearly present in my life, and I hadn't even given it a name. I just invited it in, and it came in.

Thanks all. Thing is, that I dont really truly believe in ANY higher power - Hence me shunning the 12 steps, and doing it all myself about a year and a half ago...

However, due to a personal issue in July, I relapsed...

The reason I said 'CM Punk' wasn't a piss take. Its cause he is a wrestler and entertainer, at the top of his game, whom I admire. He is also (In Real Life as well as in the ring) "STRAIGHT EDGE"... I think, if he can do what he does and take NOTHING... EVER... Then what could I achieve if I could get just a 5th of what he has?

But anyway, hanks for responses, and I shall try again - MY WAY - then, if it still dont work - I shall try 12 steps

Like I say, I HAVE done it before, and I'm sure I could again, and if the event that happened in June had NOT happened, I would not have relapsed....

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Jel

fate, god, karma, mother nature, love, the force - doesn't matter what/who you use imho.

Thing is, I don't believe in anything. Not fate, god or karma. I don't believe love is a higher power and certainly not 'nature'.

So, 12 step untimely fails for me as I don't think there *is* any *higher power*.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Thing is, I don't believe in anything. Not fate, god or karma. I don't believe love is a higher power and certainly not 'nature'.

So, 12 step untimely fails for me as I don't think there *is* any *higher power*.

FYI, it's easier to believe than not believe... it takes 'energy' to deny and only acceptance to allow... think of it like standing in the middle of the street stopping traffic as opposed to walking along the side of the road minding your own business... I must admit though I've always figured this was the case with you from the tone of your post

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

FYI, it's easier to believe than not believe... it takes 'energy' to deny and only acceptance to allow...

Easier to believe what?

What kind of 'energy' are you referring to?

[Fletch XXX]

when i went to AA i was very turned off by the hold hands and pray in a circle shit.

Religion has no purpose in fighting addiction.

those charities are propped up by drug/alcohol courts and wouldnt exist without the funding they are provided and its all a mask for religion. what got me the most was how everyone there was sucking down sugar, coffee, and cigarettes.... yet beer is bad? LOL these people couldnt sit 10 mins without smoking, and they wnt to tell me how bad a life i was living was by drinking beer buahaha

not to mention first thing they get you do is admit "i have no power" over alcohol,... horseshit, you and only you can QUIT, not some god gonna help you.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Thanks all. Thing is, that I dont really truly believe in ANY higher power - Hence me shunning the 12 steps, and doing it all myself about a year and a half ago...

However, due to a personal issue in July, I relapsed...

The reason I said 'CM Punk' wasn't a piss take. Its cause he is a wrestler and entertainer, at the top of his game, whom I admire. He is also (In Real Life as well as in the ring) "STRAIGHT EDGE"... I think, if he can do what he does and take NOTHING... EVER... Then what could I achieve if I could get just a 5th of what he has?

But anyway, hanks for responses, and I shall try again - MY WAY - then, if it still dont work - I shall try 12 steps

Like I say, I HAVE done it before, and I'm sure I could again, and if the event that happened in June had NOT happened, I would not have relapsed....

Best of luck mate

[Fletch XXX]

PS cm punk straight edge? as long as he has a pepsi logo (caffeine is a highly abused drug) tattoo he is not.

in fact, the straight edge no caffeine, aspirin, ANYTHING - he is marketing to a niche, wouldnt surprise me if he drinks beer off camera honestly.

i still listen to minor threat and true straight edge hardcore every day to help me get past the day without wanting to drink.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Thing is, I don't believe in anything. Not fate, god or karma. I don't believe love is a higher power and certainly not 'nature'.

So, 12 step untimely fails for me as I don't think there *is* any *higher power*.

So the power nature has isn't a power greater than what you have? It's not believing 'in' something in a religious type of way (though obviously for those religious in nature, it can be if they want), it's believing (or willing to accept) that there is a 'higher power', ie something that you cannot control, because you don't have as much power as it, whatever the 'it' of your choosing is.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

when i went to AA i was very turned off by the hold hands and pray in a circle shit.

that scared the shit out of me as well

Religion has no purpose in fighting addiction.

ain't that the fucking truth

those charities are propped up by drug/alcohol courts and wouldnt exist without the funding they are provided

not true at all... the courts have filled the meeting with mean bitter assholes with no intention of doing anything to help themselves and bullshit pop psychology

what got me the most was how everyone there was sucking down sugar, coffee, and cigarettes.... yet beer is bad? LOL these people couldnt sit 10 mins without smoking, and they wnt to tell me how bad a life i was living was by drinking beer buahaha

and how many people have you robbed again for a ciggy and coffee?

not to mention first thing they get you do is admit "i have no power" over alcohol,... horseshit, you and only you can QUIT, not some god gonna help you.

more pop psychology pulled out of context... you have have a drink when you didn't want one?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Jel

So the power nature has isn't a power greater than what you have? It's not believing 'in' something in a religious type of way (though obviously for those religious in nature, it can be if they want), it's believing (or willing to accept) that there is a 'higher power', ie something that you cannot control, because you don't have as much power as it, whatever the 'it' of your choosing is.

The power I have *over me* is greater than the power "Mother Nature" has *over me*. I *chose* to do the thing I am addicted to. Nature doesn't make me. And I cannot see how Nature would make me not do the thing I am addicted to.

I can see how, if you are religious, it is easy to put this burden on a mythical fairytale creature. But if you are an atheist, I still can't see how it works.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

when i went to AA i was very turned off by the hold hands and pray in a circle shit.

Religion has no purpose in fighting addiction.

those charities are propped up by drug/alcohol courts and wouldnt exist without the funding they are provided and its all a mask for religion. what got me the most was how everyone there was sucking down sugar, coffee, and cigarettes.... yet beer is bad? LOL these people couldnt sit 10 mins without smoking, and they wnt to tell me how bad a life i was living was by drinking beer buahaha

not to mention first thing they get you do is admit "i have no power" over alcohol,... horseshit, you and only you can QUIT, not some god gonna help you.

AA and it's offshoots isn't for everyone, of course not, but the above is horse shit

Go to 5 meetings and see if you still think it's about religion.

#1 they aren't charities
#2 they aren't propped up by anything other than the people in them, and their contributions of time & money
#3 it's not about the addiction itself, but about the consequences - sugar, coffee, cigarettes - yep all 'bad for you' in a broad sense, though I've yet to hear of people getting done for smoke driving, losing their job because they had too much coffee on a regular basis, went into blackout and didn't remember a thing about the previous night's coffee & cigarette session, and so on.
#4 these people told you you were living a bad life? I call bullshit on that. They told you their experiences, shared the consequences, and 'told' you that if you had similar problems and had a desire to quit drinking, AA was the place to do it.
#5 you don't have any power over alcohol, if you are an alcoholic, because you can't stop after just the one drink. By even mentioning QUIT, you acknowledge you need to abstain entirely - *that's* the powerlessness, because you simply CANNOT drink in a way that other people can, and have just 1 or just 2, on an ongoing basis. Once you start, you keep on going, and that's why you end up at your rock bottom, whatever that is on a personal case by case, and walk through the doors.

Oh, and not sure where you are, but no court over here in the UK can order you to attend a single AA meeting, and I'd be very surprised to hear that a court can do that wherever you live.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Jel

AA and it's offshoots isn't for everyone, of course not, but the above is horse shit

LOL I love gfy, one need simply share their experience and it is easily disregarded.

Since you claim no court sentences anyone to AA, Ill go ahead and just prove you wrong on that and assume everything else you say is most likely uninformed as well.

Originally Posted by Jel

no court over here in the UK can order you to attend a single AA meeting, and I'd be very surprised to hear that a court can do that wherever you live.

Judges off the books sentence people to AA in every city in America every single day.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-sentenced.html

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Easier to believe what?

What kind of 'energy' are you referring to?

easier to believe that there are things going on that I have no understanding of, a positive aspect of life. think of it like this: I accept a universal force of positive intention in life.

maybe it has something to do with quantum physics entanglement... beats me... to be real honest I have no understanding of electricity... never could understand it and I use it everyday... should I deny that electricity exist because I can't see 'it' or understand 'it'? think how hard I would have to 'work' to deny electricity? I do know that people with 'g_d' issues have issues with a male parental figure though..

I drive a nice car, have a nice place to live in the hills... my bills are paid, even my taxes. my family is healthy and doing well, I have reasonably good health, and I have a few bucks in the bank... and work. I'm surrounded with good people as well...

I have allowed this to happen in my life by my acceptance of a positive good will that I feel existing in this world.... that's how I choose to life...

[Jel]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

The power I have *over me* is greater than the power "Mother Nature" has *over me*. I *chose* to do the thing I am addicted to. Nature doesn't make me. And I cannot see how Nature would make me not do the thing I am addicted to.

Ah ok I see where you are coming from. Agreed. That isn't the point of believing in a power greater than yourself; it's not directly related to the actual act of quitting, more to do with the ongoing process of recovery.

Originally Posted by DamianJ

I can see how, if you are religious, it is easy to put this burden on a mythical fairytale creature. But if you are an atheist, I still can't see how it works.

What burden? What mythical creature? Trust me, that is a markham traffic argument - so far off the mark that it's obvious you have never been to a 12 step meeting, or at least a few. I don't mean that in a 'you are markham' way, I mean that in a 'you know how far off paul is when it comes to traffic? Well it's *that* far off what 12 steps, and a higher power is, that the best thing to do is pretend you never wrote it' way

Actually that still sounds like a piss-take, it isn't though, and I'm hoping you see what I'm getting at

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

LOL I love gfy, one need simply share their experience and it is easily disregarded.

Since you claim no court sentences anyone to AA, Ill go ahead and just prove you wrong on that and assume everything else you say is most likely uninformed as well.



Judges off the books sentence people to AA in every city in America every single day.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-sentenced.html

orange papers is pretty cool and the guy said no court in the UK. and I know one hell of a lot about addicction, been dealing with it clean for almost 22 years... no joke

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

PS cm punk straight edge? as long as he has a pepsi logo (caffeine is a highly abused drug) tattoo he is not.

Please dont 'harsh my mellow' dude

Technically, you are correct - However, if in the absence of my belief in any other 'real?' higher power...

If I can conetrate my efforts roward an american wrestler - as opposed to not being able to elsewhere...

Why screw it up for me with facts

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

LOL I love gfy, one need simply share their experience and it is easily disregarded.

Since you claim no court sentences anyone to AA, Ill go ahead and just prove you wrong on that and assume everything else you say is most likely uninformed as well.



Judges off the books sentence people to AA in every city in America every single day.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-sentenced.html

advice on addiction from gfyers LOL

"It's unconstitutional to sentence people to A.A" ah ok. And I didn't claim no court sentences anyone to AA, I claimed, correctly, no court in the UK does, and that I'd be surprised if they did where you live. So, I'm surprised.

As for uninformed, lol ok whatever mate, fucked if I'm going to get in a pissing match with some cunt on gfy about this

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

and the guy said no court in the UK.

"I'd be very surprised to hear that a court can do that wherever you live."

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Please dont 'harsh my mellow' dude

hey man just messing around lol

i know gfy is no place for facts me forgots lolz

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Jel

"It's unconstitutional to sentence people to A.A" ah ok. And I didn't claim no court sentences anyone to AA, I claimed, correctly, no court in the UK does, and that I'd be surprised if they did where you live. So, I'm surprised.

As for uninformed, lol ok whatever mate, fucked if I'm going to get in a pissing match with some cunt on gfy about this

lol im not pissing, you called everything i said horseshit, dont be mad because I backed up my point LOL

you dont have as many friends as i have whove been through us drug and alcohol courts I guess hahaha its cooool man. its well know ppl sentenced to aa meetings here.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

"I'd be very surprised to hear that a court can do that wherever you live."

it's not a sentence really, it's an opportunity to try and step up and avoid jail.... I know a guy that did 5 years in the pen because he refused to go to meetings... ultimatly 'it's your choice' your 'many friends' had the same choice, if they wanna punk out and go to meetings, instead of the pen... maybe they shouldn't cry about it

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

it's not a sentence really, it's an opportunity to try and step up and avoid jail.... I know a guy that did 5 years in the pen because he refused to go to meetings... ultimatly 'it's your choice'

wait so youre saying judges use this to say either go to 5 meetings or youre going to jail? Well, thats pretty much what I was saying LOL

Why do people spend so much time trying to argue when thats what I was sayin in first place LOL

[Fletch XXX]

anyway back to original topic, I think CM Punk makes a fine supremee being to seek spiritual strength from man.

[cykoe6]

I use my cat as my higher power and I am sober for 11 years.

[CaptainHowdy]

The problem itself it's to be compelled to enroll in AA ...

[LeRoy]

Keep coming back it works if you jerk it

[Shotsie]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

Judges off the books sentence people to AA in every city in America every single day.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-sentenced.html

I don't get why people knock NA/AA, especially recovering addicts. It works for some people, if you don't like it then cope with your addictions on your own and become a dry drunk or drug addict white-knuckling your way through sobriety. It just seems like some militant atheists reject it outright because of some of the spiritual aspects of it.


Personally, i've seen it benefit a lot of people positively, and i've had people tell me that it completely changed their outlook on life and the way they live it. I'm talking about hardcore heroin addicts, people who I would've bet money that they wouldn't live to see thirty, completely turn their lives around and are now succesful, happy and sober credit NA with helping them achieve content sobriety. Now they in turn help other people to get clean and stay clean, what's wrong with that?


That orange papers writer just comes off as a bitter jerkoff. I only skimmed the site but I didn't see him offering any alternative to NA/AA or providing any kind of positive message to anybody who might be trying to recover. The only thing I noticed him say was that "people should try to get some other treatment", nice advice.

[JayDeeZee]

Try using your ego as your HP. See how quick it kills ya. It doesn't matter what it is, just as long as it's far enough removed from the ego.

I stopped trying to figure it all out. My HP is infinite, won't lie, cheat, steal, and still loves hot naked chicks. My job is to uncover, discover and discard anything that gets in between me and my hp.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

easier to believe that there are things going on that I have no understanding of, a positive aspect of life. think of it like this: I accept a universal force of positive intention in life.

Oh right. But this 'force' cannot be measured in anyway. One just has to accept it is there, like God?

Originally Posted by bm bradley

maybe it has something to do with quantum physics entanglement... beats me... to be real honest I have no understanding of electricity... never could understand it and I use it everyday... should I deny that electricity exist because I can't see 'it' or understand 'it'?

No, because it is very very very easy to understand how electricity works. It's a type of energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. Read more here: http://www.explainthatstuff.com/electricity.html

Originally Posted by bm bradley

think how hard I would have to 'work' to deny electricity?

Pretty bloody hard as it is really easy to prove it exists and explain it.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Shotsie

It just seems like some militant atheists reject it outright because of some of the spiritual aspects of it.

Yes. Because spirituality is for the weak, those who need to put the control of their life into the hands of something not there. Not measurable, not scientific. Just blind faith. Like a
fairy tale.

Atheists usually prefer a science-based approach, like CBT. (not the BDSM variety)

That is, at least, proven to work, is measurable and doesn't rely on any bullshit 'power' or 'spirituality' that can't be shown to be there.

The 12 steps do not tackle the ROOT of why you are addicted to your addiction. It just says "everything cool, trust in god". I think tackling the root of the issue would be better. This is why so many 12 steppers are massive smokers/coffee freaks. Transference of addiction.

[Jel]

lol. The root doesn't fucking matter does it? Hey, I was 'insert bad thing here' so I'm an alcoholic. Great. Now I know why I'm an alcoholic. If I deal with the residue of those/that issue(s), I won't drink alcoholically, huzzah!

Erm, wrong. Well, wrong for some people, and not for others. Lightbulb moment - let those who want AA/etc have it, instead of saying the whole thing is flawed, and those that don't want it, don't fucking go to AA. Easy, innit.

[Jel]

and lol @ spirituality is for the weak. Like football is for boys, and ballet is for girls.