Diary of opening a paysite

[Paul Markham]

This last 6 weeks have been exciting, frustrating and ultimately rewarding.

It was 6 weeks ago we launched Paul Markham Teens and nothing happened. Then a few days later we had our first sign up. He came off the content store.

We then set about driving traffic to the site and here our problems with lack of knowledge experience and everything else hit us.

The TGP galleries we had designed were too big and surfers did not wait for them to download, in fact few of them got accepted and in those first few days traffic was low, very low.

So I went out looking for designers. One was an old contact and the other a women in trouble who needed some money for Xmas. Their designs worked a lot better than ours, so traffic to the site increased. sign ups were now the problem. My idea of a tour sucked so again went out to find designers for a tour.

What a disappointment that was, most were lay out people with templates and few had a clue how to innovate something different. Most showed me a portfolio of other peoples sites and asked for money. The guy who eventually got the job was TPC at Bright Sign Productions he knocked me up some samples to show what he could do for ME and how he saw the site. He got the job.

Monday his tour went up behind our front page, FRONT PAGE, we added CCBILL to the billing and we got a decent stats program.

Amazing is all I can say, we seem to be converting about 1:100 that reach the site.

Problem is getting them to the site, conversions from TGP sites to us are running under 3% on average and I'm told it should be 5%. But as we know nothing about galleries and submissions it's not bad.

Good news is we are getting accepted a lot and on good sites, but then we are using PAUL MARKHAM CONTENT STORE content.

We just signed up to CCBILL and need a few guys to beta test the affiliate program. They can have FHGs or content and design their own.

So a great week after a lot of disappointment and a lot further to go, we have a few things planned that will make the site even better.

[megatgpdotnet]

WTG, Paul!

[LadyMischief]

I offered to help, the offer still stands.

[skillfull]

liked to read that

i know how its disapointing to send a shitload of traffic to a new site and dont see it convert at all

[karlm]

Nice one paul

Glad its working out for you

[DEA - banned for life]

good luck paul

[EyesWideShut]

best of luck to you man, keep it up and you'll be pimpin in no time

[Gunni]

good stuff
I imagine the site should retain pretty well!
Best of luck to you

[shuki]

good post. Interesting to hear about the trials and tribulatoins on the other side of the lens

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by skillfull

liked to read that

i know how its disapointing to send a shitload of traffic to a new site and dont see it convert at all

We got the opposite problem, sending too little traffic to a site that converts beyond our wildest dreams.

I would have been over the moon with 1:500, but then I expected 1,000 visits a day minimum. Only getting 200.

But it's early days and we are just getting going and no affiliates yet.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by charly

We got the opposite problem, sending too little traffic to a site that converts beyond our wildest dreams.

I would have been over the moon with 1:500, but then I expected 1,000 visits a day minimum. Only getting 200.

But it's early days and we are just getting going and no affiliates yet.

sure, with some affiliates pushing good traffic
you will see how your site convert with different kind of traffic

[Paul Markham]

Very true Skillful.

I'm starting to think neither content or traffic is king, it's conversion that holds the key.

One idiot starting out with little can soon be driving 20,000 hits in a few days, it's converting them that's the key. Know what and how to turn them on.

I can sell to me, another guy will give it another slant.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by shuki

good post. Interesting to hear about the trials and tribulatoins on the other side of the lens

Yes it's been fun learning this side of the business, getting a clearer picture of this business by doing this.

[Pornwolf]

I'm glad you finally are. You were looking at things through a content providers lenses for too long. I'm happy you are finding success at this.

[pxxx]

That is a nice one.

[MrIzzz]

paul. i love your honesty in this thread. i have just a few suggestions that may help

cascading billing
set yourself up for mail traffic
hire a few professional gallery submitters

do you offer trials?

[Wiggles]

good luck with it paul, your content rocks so you should be able to pick up rather quickly

[Paul Markham]

Thank you MrIzzz. Nothing to hide, if it fails I have an excuse. I'm stupid.

About the other things.

cascading billing
Yes it will come.

set yourself up for mail traffic
Not sure but may give it a shot, don't like Spammers.

{b]hire a few professional gallery submitters[/b]
Do you mean outsource it?
We will be getting a few very good guys to submit for us.

We have a lot of email addresses on our content site list of people who will be interested in submitting for us. Plus I think I have a fairly good rep on the boards so I' looking forward to the future.

At the moment need to get a few affiliates to test it out.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by MrIzzz

paul. i love your honesty in this thread. i have just a few suggestions that may help

cascading billing
set yourself up for mail traffic
hire a few professional gallery submitters

do you offer trials?

you are a small program right now Paul - you start taking mail traffic you can wake up one morning with your site offline and the affiliates you do have royally pissed off at you.

trials suck. they are for big affiliate programs who understand the 'game'.

gallery submitters - good idea.

[BV]

so the moral to the story is: "the grass isn't always greener on the other side"

traffic is king, content comes second

[Rui]

Nice and informative post, keep us updated Charly and best of luck with your program ;)

[tony286]

looks good best of luck

[Abyss_Vee]

Paul, are you still using MyVirtualCard ?

[$5 submissions]

Paul, if you need mini biographies for the girls, hit me up. We are currently offering a 300 article special. ICQ or email me at info AT webmasterlabor DOT com

[Undisputed1]

offered to help also, but they..................fuck it

[MGibson]

I'd make it more noticeable that youve been published in so many magazines, make it a strong selling point on the site so people KNOW theyre getting quality.

[PerfectionGirls]

Hit me up Paul. I have a great deal of teen traffic and I would be willing to give it a shot. Lot more to running a program then just the content. Without traffic.. all the good content in the world is meaningless.

Hit me up though paul... I can get you up tonight i think if ya hurry.

[SureFire]

Originally Posted by charly

...
What a disappointment that was, most were lay out people with templates and few had a clue how to innovate something different. Most showed me a portfolio of other peoples sites and asked for money...

Charly, I have looked at your site a few times...and take L.M. offer for advice. Besides the entry page which is fine, the next page loads very slow on DSL and to me lacks any motive to click further. The tour is an eye soar. So much ill use of color and movement it is hard to focus on what you are trying to sell.

Here is some free advice, I would not believe that you were an acclaimed photographer is the sex industry based on your presentation. It seem like you are assuming that people know your work and are forgetting how many people make the same claim that buy your content and others.

Sad, that not one sales rep or designer made the suggestion to present your pay site in a professional manner and capitalize on your experience/fame and then the tons of content you have. Who knows, that could be another tour.

I would be leery of sign ups from your content store, if in fact, you are showing the same pixs in your members? area. This would be only hell of a deal for the stealers out there and probably hurt future content sales.

JMO

[MGibson]

Paul: SURFERS have NO idea who you are.

Webmasters do.

Who are you selling to?

You are presenting your paysite to surfers as if they know your pictures.


Splash a huge page on the front entry, something with magazine covers of who you have shot for, so they know !

[pussyluver]

Hey Paul,

I'll jump in on your beta affiliate program if you want.

If you're not ready for that shoot some FHGs links over via ICQ and I'll put 'em up as hardlinks to get ya some backlinks goin.

Good luck on the project.

Senior webmasters stick together!!

[felipeav]

good luck paul!

[pxxx]

Keep going at ut Paul, I thope things continue to go well for you.

[pussyluver]

Originally Posted by SureFire

Charly, I have looked at your site a few times...and take L.M. offer for advice. Besides the entry page which is fine, the next page loads very slow on DSL and to me lacks any motive to click further. The tour is an eye soar. So much ill use of color and movement it is hard to focus on what you are trying to sell.

Here is some free advice, I would not believe that you were an acclaimed photographer is the sex industry based on your presentation. It seem like you are assuming that people know your work and are forgetting how many people make the same claim that buy your content and others.

Sad, that not one sales rep or designer made the suggestion to present your pay site in a professional manner and capitalize on your experience/fame and then the tons of content you have. Who knows, that could be another tour.

I would be leery of sign ups from your content store, if in fact, you are showing the same pixs in your members? area. This would be only hell of a deal for the stealers out there and probably hurt future content sales.

JMO

Pg 1 loaded fast and then slow here too. Started looking at your source code. You did say a rework is in progress now?

[afx]

I can help you with teen traffic, contact me at icq #11189755

[Rui]

Originally Posted by MGibson

Paul: SURFERS have NO idea who you are.

Webmasters do.

Who are you selling to?

You are presenting your paysite to surfers as if they know your pictures.


Splash a huge page on the front entry, something with magazine covers of who you have shot for, so they know !

True, you have to stop thinking so much in the webmasters point of view but rather in the surfers one...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by MGibson

I'd make it more noticeable that youve been published in so many magazines, make it a strong selling point on the site so people KNOW theyre getting quality.

I was actully thinking of putting it on the join page.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by BV

so the moral to the story is: "the grass isn't always greener on the other side"

traffic is king, content comes second

Traffic is not kink, converting it is.

What I found is it's fairly easy to build up 20K hits is a short while and getting affiliates to drive more is not exactly brain surgery.

The key is in converting them, our galleries do not convert well, our tour does.

Traffic is moving and useless until it stops and still not much use until it starts to buy something.

Problem is some have reached their ceiling on putting together a sales package, then the only way to go is to drive more traffic at it. But I would bet in most cases there is space for improvement on most conversion ratios.

[Paul Markham]

So to keep you all updated this is the story so far.

The front page will stay as it is, but might compress it a bit. We have a problem with the server and that will be resolved.

The tour is still converting around 1:100 on traffic we are driving from TGP, Link Dumps and the content stores. Anyone stealing content will find our URL all over it and have a problem when sucking it down in vast amounts.

I have found gallery views slowed down recently, however visits to the site stayed firm.

We have started the affiliate program and testing it out with a few friends to see how it goes and how their traffic compares with ours. Only started yesterday so too early to tell.

If things go well next week with the affiliate testing I will email those who bought content from us and take on a few more affiliates. Then we have our holiday so not rushing to fast.

I'm trying to find a designer to do another tour, but to date not impressed with anyone. So I layed out my own tour and waiting for some quotes. Also need to get banners and TGP & Freesite galleries done.

Like the ideas of the mags and will use that, but unless I see conversions dropping it will stay and we will offer affiliates different options. We have a few clients making big bucks of unconventional tours. I feel the surfer is getting bored with the same old cookie cutter tour and maybe that is the plus on our site. Who really knows though.

Until we get more traffic and new tours it's all guess work.

CCBILL is definitely more favoured by the surfer, probably because the guys signing up know them from before.

Looking for new content has been a waste of time, can't find anyone with content to compliment ours. So far.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by charly

The tour is still converting around 1:100 on traffic we are driving from TGP, Link Dumps and the content stores. Anyone stealing content will find our URL all over it and have a problem when sucking it down in vast amounts.

hey man, what method do you use to track conversions? Unique hits on the first page to sales? Or tour hits to sales? If you already have some affiliates testing it, the best way is to look in affiliates-->sales per click.
If you take a look at "form hits" ratios, those are join page ratios.

[Rui]

Originally Posted by charly

CCBILL is definitely more favoured by the surfer, probably because the guys signing up know them from before.

Not always the case since CCbill scrubbing is mad nowadays and you will endup getting many people with thier legic cc's declined.

[xclusive]

great thread paul and glad things are going well

[Praguer]

Originally Posted by BV

so the moral to the story is: "the grass isn't always greener on the other side"

traffic is king, content comes second

Well, traffic brings the members, content keeps them.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by xclusive

great thread paul and glad things are going well

I am not sure things are going so well for him atm.

Honestly, after lots of time spent on GFY, even if you are a content producer, you should get a pretty good idea how the paysite, traffic and affiliate model work.

It isn't so easy that you just set up a paysite with average design and good content and then submit some galleries for it and start making bank.

And I am also quite sure, as someone suggested, that surfers have no idea who "Paul Markham" is - for them seeing your name, I don't think it's automatically a guarantee of quality and a sufficient reason to join your site.


Best luck to you anyway

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

hey man, what method do you use to track conversions? Unique hits on the first page to sales? Or tour hits to sales? If you already have some affiliates testing it, the best way is to look in affiliates-->sales per click.
If you take a look at "form hits" ratios, those are join page ratios.

What you have to remember is I'm a novice at reading these figures, so might be making a mistake. we are using www.indextools.com program anf this is what it tells me for yesterday.

Daily Unique Visitors to all Paul Markham Teens sites, inc TGPs. 1718
Paul Markham warning page page views, can't get uniques. 130
Front page views. 105 some of these will have come from the front page.
First tour page. 153
Second page 77
Third page 42
Order page 35

Sign ups were two.

With no experience on what is the wastage from site entry to sign up that looks good. But a lot of room for improvement especially off the galleries.

As I said this time next week we will have a better idea of it all as we will have others traffic and from more diverse sources.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Praguer

Well, traffic brings the members, content keeps them.

Content also brings the traffic, unles you are putting up blank pages to get traffic. Content is a single word, so everyting is included in the word content.

polish_aristocrat things aren't going so bad.

Will be flying to the US in two weeks with the family, then will probably go to Phoenix for the show there.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by charly

Daily Unique Visitors to all Paul Markham Teens sites, inc TGPs. 1718
Paul Markham warning page page views, can't get uniques. 130
Front page views. 105 some of these will have come from the front page.
First tour page. 153
Second page 77
Third page 42
Order page 35

Sign ups were two.

those are nice stats, second page CTR could be a little bit higher as you link the top thumbs to it, but the overall is pretty good. The only thing you have to find out, how will the numbers look like with high traffic. Try some top spot on a high traffic tgp, that could drive 20-50k to the paysite and you will see. The $400-600 one time investment is better than to wait weeks for the same result, saves a lot of time.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

those are nice stats, second page CTR could be a little bit higher as you link the top thumbs to it, but the overall is pretty good. The only thing you have to find out, how will the numbers look like with high traffic. Try some top spot on a high traffic tgp, that could drive 20-50k to the paysite and you will see. The $400-600 one time investment is better than to wait weeks for the same result, saves a lot of time.

We've got a few whales to drive traffic to us so will test it with that, but on the list is to buy some good spots, but want to get the gallery conversions right.

Will be trying it out with some Ask Jolene traffic as well this week.

We are also resizing all the thumbs on the front page and throwing out 23 of the not so cute ones. So that will make some happy.

[Paul Markham]

I've resized the thumbs on the bottom of the FRONT PAGE take a look and give me an idea of how fast they load please.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by charly

We've got a few whales to drive traffic to us so will test it with that, but on the list is to buy some good spots, but want to get the gallery conversions right.

I understand you, but big spots are the best way to test real conversions and to improve the site. I know you would like to have as good converting site as possible first, but look at it as an option to do tests. But if you have webmasters who can send huge traffic, you will find out.

[cherrylula]

Originally Posted by charly

Very true Skillful.

I'm starting to think neither content or traffic is king, it's conversion that holds the key.

One idiot starting out with little can soon be driving 20,000 hits in a few days, it's converting them that's the key. Know what and how to turn them on.

I can sell to me, another guy will give it another slant.

Yep because its about making the formula work, then you do the numbers game. Its just marketing.