The amusing thing about SOPA commentary...

[xenigo]

Having a dialogue with pirates about the laws that impact pirates is kinda like having a discussion with murderers about penalties for committing murder. Or maybe talking with Bernie Madoff about laws regarding Ponzie schemes.

Is it any surprise they don't support any penalties, much less harsh penalties?

One thing I hear repeated is that "piracy should be stopped, but SOPA is way worse... so we can't support SOPA."

And the death penalty for treason is way worse than treason. And spending the rest of your life behind bars for running a Ponzie scheme is way worse than running a Ponzie scheme. Duh... That's the point.

Have these people never heard of accountability? This is how it works.

They say things like "this won't stop piracy". I'm sure it won't, but that's not the point. The point is to incentivise you to think long and hard before you do something that could potentially lead to your getting in trouble. The whole point is to dissuade you from committing the act the law is designed to discourage.

Yes, murder still happens... obviously. But there's a lot less of it going on because we have extremely harsh penalties for committing heinous acts.

[WarChild]

You assume that everybody that is against SOPA is a pirate. Pretty stupid assumption.

[xenigo]

There are a few people who are not. But most of the people opposing it are partaking in what the law is designed to curtail. Read between the lines, bro.

[kane]

In my experience just reading comments on sites like Torrentfreak many pirates see themselves as freedom fighters and revolutionaries who are fighting for all of us against the evil, greedy media empires of the world. There is no way to rationalize with someone like that.

There are also a lot of them that don't think what they are doing is illegal.

[WarChild]

So by your same logic everybody who is against the death penalty is a murderer?

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by xenigo

Have these people never heard of accountability? This is how it works.

interesting how you don't want the copyright holder to be accountable for making bogus complaints that take away free speech rights or destroy businesses.

[raymor]

The opposition had much better spin. Many people violently oppose the horrible things that they were told SOPA would do. I'm against SOPA as written, but having read it I'm not nearly as passionate in my position as many people are. I think theft SHOULD have consequences and also I think SOPA needed to be more specific and clear.

I think that with SOPA the opposition just did a much better job of spin. Many, if not most, people believe the bill had draconian stuff on it that just plain wasn't there. Practically noone seems to know that under SOPA nothing would happen unless a judge ruled that the site is dedicated to nothing but piracy.

The anti-SOPA spinsters successfully convinced people that if someone posted a comment on your blog that linked to infringing material the site could be taken down. That's simply false, but the idea (lie) enraged a lot of people. I guess that's OK because it was a bad law anyway. Not NEARLY as bad as people who never read it think, but bad nevertheless.

[Dirty Dane]

Without penalties, murder would not be a crime. But murder happens anyway, so no need for penalties.

[pornmasta]

megaupload was making a lot of money

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by raymor

The opposition had much better spin. Many people violently oppose the horrible things that they were told SOPA would do. I'm against SOPA as written, but having read it I'm not nearly as passionate in my position as many people are. I think theft SHOULD have consequences and also I think SOPA needed to be more specific and clear.

I think that with SOPA the opposition just did a much better job of spin. Many, if not most, people believe the bill had draconian stuff on it that just plain wasn't there. Practically noone seems to know that under SOPA nothing would happen unless a judge ruled that the site is dedicated to nothing but piracy.

The anti-SOPA spinsters successfully convinced people that if someone posted a comment on your blog that linked to infringing material the site could be taken down. That's simply false, but the idea (lie) enraged a lot of people. I guess that's OK because it was a bad law anyway. Not NEARLY as bad as people who never read it think, but bad nevertheless.

Not that I believed for one second you have read a single word of SOPA, but it took me all of half a minute, including Googling the document, to find a passage that demonstrates you have no idea what you are talking about.

SEC. 102. ACTION BY ATTORNEY GENERAL TO PROTECT U.S. CUSTOMERS AND PREVENT U.S. SUPPORT OF FOREIGN INFRINGING SITES.

(a) Definition- For purposes of this section, a foreign Internet site or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site' if--

(1) the Internet site or portion thereof is a U.S.-directed site and is used by users in the United States;

(2) the owner or operator of such Internet site is committing or facilitating the commission of criminal violations punishable under section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90, of title 18, United States Code; and

(3) the Internet site would, by reason of acts described in paragraph (1), be subject to seizure in the United States in an action brought by the Attorney General if such site were a domestic Internet site.

Linking to a site which contains infringing material is not "facilitating" piracy or counterfeiting? Really? Says who?

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by xenigo

There are a few people who are not. But most of the people opposing it are partaking in what the law is designed to curtail. Read between the lines, bro.

You're clueless. As you're an adult webmaster so I would be pretty sure that it would be normal to have 0 understanding of business.

Please name a time where govt intervention with laws has ever helped business LONGTERM. All it does is give power to people who have no understanding of business in the first place. That power is 99% of the time used to fund itself no matter what means are necessary. Once govt puts a section into law it will do whatever it can to fund and further find excuses to fund that section.

You sound like a communist it is really sad.

If your business boils down to needing govt help to achieve you're already over for the long haul. It is best you quit now.

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

You're clueless. As you're an adult webmaster so I would be pretty sure that it would be normal to have 0 understanding of business.

Please name a time where govt intervention with laws has ever helped business LONGTERM. All it does is give power to people who have no understanding of business in the first place. That power is 99% of the time used to fund itself no matter what means are necessary. Once govt puts a section into law it will do whatever it can to fund and further find excuses to fund that section.

You sound like a communist it is really sad.

If your business boils down to needing govt help to achieve you're already over for the long haul. It is best you quit now.

You're a moron, MetaMan. If you actually think I'm a communist, or want to have anything other than a purely capitalist society you really are mistaken. You couldn't be further from my political perspective or agenda.

And yes, we need to flush the pirates down the toilet because that's where this entire fucking industry is going otherwise.

Right now, at this very point in time, government intervention can play an unprecedented role in restoring our economy.

If anyone's sounding like a communist hippy, it's you with your whole "let's liberate IP from the hands of greedy corporations!" perspective.

What the fuck do you even do? It sure as hell has nothing to do with media production.

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by xenigo

You're a moron, MetaMan. If you actually think I'm a communist, or want to have anything other than a purely capitalist society you really are mistaken. You couldn't be further from my political perspective or agenda.

And yes, we need to flush the pirates down the toilet because that's where this entire fucking industry is going otherwise.

Right now, at this very point in time, government intervention can play an unprecedented role in restoring our economy.

If anyone's sounding like a communist hippy, it's you with your whole "let's liberate IP from the hands of greedy corporations!" perspective.

What the fuck do you even do? It sure as hell has nothing to do with media production.

I have had so many of my landing pages, ideas, websites ripped from so many people it is laughable.

I cannot count on my hands how many people I meet year to year that copied my exact setup. I do not sit here and whine about it anymore. It forces me to become smarter and move to the next level.

Because I am not lazy and I constantly force myself to move forward no matter the success or loss I know LONGTERM I will not lose. I feel like I am smarter and better than the competition. If I fall behind it is purely my fault.

You're the type of person who always wants to point the finger at someone. Come up with some excuse. A true capitalist never wants government intervention in their business. (Lets stick to topic and not come up with pre planned obvious comebacks like the environment etc.)

The fact of the matter is the government does not understand the internet properly. That is why there is a debate in a first place.

I'm sorry I do not agree with pirates but I would rather have a clear enemy in my business that i have a true chance of defeating. Rather than an entire government or governments who have shown a clear willingness to use their power for outside the original goal.

Government intervention as usual is only going to help the biggest of the big. If you somehow still believe in the trickle down effect you're not only blinded but clearly stupid (I am sorry but it is true)

You can wave your help me flag all you want. But you're still and always will be a speck on the entire totem poll. The faster you learn your place the more time you have to spend time fighting the real things that matter. Competing properly and improving your business.

[Blingbaby]

Ignorance is bliss. Sure, all the people against SOPA are pirates. Wikipedia, Google and this group of artists http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2012/0...m-artists.html If you don't recognize any names there you are as illiterate and uncultured as you are ignorant.

[Blingbaby]

Originally Posted by xenigo

You're a moron, MetaMan. If you actually think I'm a communist, or want to have anything other than a purely capitalist society you really are mistaken. You couldn't be further from my political perspective or agenda.

And yes, we need to flush the pirates down the toilet because that's where this entire fucking industry is going otherwise.

Right now, at this very point in time, government intervention can play an unprecedented role in restoring our economy.

If anyone's sounding like a communist hippy, it's you with your whole "let's liberate IP from the hands of greedy corporations!" perspective.

What the fuck do you even do? It sure as hell has nothing to do with media production.

Based on this thread, labeling you a communist is obviously too flattering a term since you seem to have no interest in the greater good of the community. Sociopath fascist is more accurate. All you give a shit about is your gold. I'm glad I live in a country that still has a vote to keep people like you and the political cronies that would do your bidding, at bay!

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by Blingbaby

All you give a shit about is your copyrighted intellectual property.

Fixed it for you.

[NewNick]

Originally Posted by gideongallery

interesting how you don't want the copyright holder to be accountable for making bogus complaints that take away free speech rights or destroy businesses.

Dont believe he said that ???

Why are you so hung up on this point about false accusation ?

A false rape accusation after a cheap one night stand can destroy a mans life. But that is not a good enough reason to rescind laws against rape.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by NewNick

Dont believe he said that ???

Why are you so hung up on this point about false accusation ?

A false rape accusation after a cheap one night stand can destroy a mans life. But that is not a good enough reason to rescind laws against rape.

care to explain how adding an ammendment to sopa

that voids the copyrights of the accuser if his complaint is later proven to be bogus

represents rescinding the law.

[NewNick]

Originally Posted by gideongallery

care to explain how adding an ammendment to sopa

that voids the copyrights of the accuser if his complaint is later proven to be bogus

represents rescinding the law.

Dont believe that I said that either ?

You see no one takes any notice of you here. If you really were simply wanting to add the point you make above that would be entirely reasonable.

But few people in this forum, other than maybe Markham, have spouted so much shite as you.

./.......and you can copy and distribute that remark that to your hearts content, you have my permission.

[Fletch XXX]

the funny thing is everyone on here uses google, and youtube, youtube is one of the biggest stolen video sites, yet people here find no porblem in linking videos to stolen music videos, or clip from Kill Bill etc,... a clip from a hollywood movie stolen and placed on youtube is no different than a stolen bigtit vid.

pot meet kettles.

[raymor]

helterskelter we already won. The bill has been withdrawn. The disinformation campaign can stop. Everybody already decided it was a bad idea, so there is no more need for hyperbole.

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Linking to a site which contains infringing material is not "facilitating" piracy or counterfeiting? Really? Says who?

Says SOPA:

site is primarily designed or operated for the purpose of, has only limited purpose or use other than, or is marketed by its operator or another acting in concert with that operator for use in, offering goods or services in a manner that engages in, enables, or facilitates--(I) a violation of section 501 of title 17, Unit States Code; (II) a violation of section 1201 of title 17, Un States Code; or (III) the sale, distribution, or promotion of goods, services, or materials bearing a counterfeit mark, as that termis defined in section 34(d) of the Lanham Act or section 2320 of title 18, United States Code;

[sperbonzo]

Seems like the existing law allowed them to shut down megaupload without SOPA or PIPA....





.

[raymor]

Originally Posted by Fletch

clip from Kill Bill etc,... a clip from a hollywood movie stolen and placed on youtube is no different than a stolen bigtit vid.

pot meet kettles.

The law says it's different, and those who incest in producing content say it's different.
A clip from a two hour movie is normally fair use for two different reasons. a) it's a tiny part of a much larger work and b) it does not compete with legitimate performance of the work. That is, you don't watch a clip of Kill Bill instead of going to see the movie. So it's double fair use.

People sering a funny clip from Kill Bill are more likely to buy or watch the movie, so producers generally like that, not complain about it.

When someone steals a twenty minute porn vid, that's the whole work or a significant portion, so it's not fair use like a thirty second clip is. It also competes directly with the legitimate creator of the work. Why buy a membership when you can see all the same full length videos on sites that stole them? That's the second difference and reason the stolen porn video isn't fair use.

[DamianJ]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?clien...gcjYT7BtCn3L0K

SHUT DOWN GOOGLE

[raymor]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

http://www.google.co.uk/search?clien...gcjYT7BtCn3L0K

SHUT DOWN GOOGLE

Would you then ban hammers because they can be used to break into a car and steal? Slim jims are illegal in many areas, unless you are a licensed locksmith. Hammers aren't illegal because they are often also be used for legal purposes.

Because search engines are useful for things other than theft, they are legal.

[NewNick]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

http://www.google.co.uk/search?clien...gcjYT7BtCn3L0K

SHUT DOWN GOOGLE

Absolutely.

Google is perfectly capable of choosing what it allows in it's search results.

Google makes these decisions everyday. They are making a choice here and they think they are above the law.

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by raymor

helterskelter we already won. The bill has been withdrawn. The disinformation campaign can stop. Everybody already decided it was a bad idea, so there is no more need for hyperbole.

Says SOPA:

You proved you can copy and paste. Now prove you can read. First, the text you quoted is, as far as I am aware, a separate thing to what I quoted, involving the AG. Nevertheless, here is your own quote with different emphasis to yours:

site is primarily designed or operated for the purpose of, has only limited purpose or use other than, or is marketed by its operator or another acting in concert with that operator for use in, offering goods or services in a manner that engages in, enables, or facilitates--(I) a violation of section 501 of title 17, Unit States Code; (II) a violation of section 1201 of title 17, Un States Code; or (III) the sale, distribution, or promotion of goods, services, or materials bearing a counterfeit mark, as that termis defined in section 34(d) of the Lanham Act or section 2320 of title 18, United States Code;

Deliberately vague terms chosen to allow an enormous degree of latitude in the interpretation of what is or is not allowed. If a search engine markets itself as a way to find out content on other sites, which it obviously would, and then contains links to piracy websites, which is inevitable, then it markets itself in a manner that enables and/or facilitates piracy.

Originally Posted by raymor

Would you then ban hammers because they can be used to break into a car and steal? Slim jims are illegal in many areas, unless you are a licensed locksmith. Hammers aren't illegal because they are often also be used for legal purposes.

Because search engines are useful for things other than theft, they are legal.

Currently. But under SOPA's deliberately vague definitions, they could quite possibly be deemed to be enabling or facilitating piracy by unwittingly linking to piracy websites.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by raymor

Would you then ban hammers because they can be used to break into a car and steal? Slim jims are illegal in many areas, unless you are a licensed locksmith. Hammers aren't illegal because they are often also be used for legal purposes.

Because search engines are useful for things other than theft, they are legal.

you mean like sharing you produced

or backing up your own content in a central repository accessible from multiple spots.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/1...ice-shuts-down