Uk Tax ID to avoid Medley account suspension

[cordoba]

Medley (aff/penthouse) have been sending me a number of requests for my tax id, but as far as I know, Uk sole traders don't have a tax id.

I've sent them the completed w-9 form back several times, but each time they tell me it is incomplete or incorrect.

Last time I entered my National Insurance Number, but they've now told me that I need a tax id of the form xxx-xx-xxxx

I don't know if this means that I have to either register as a business or have to accept that I can't promote medley.

[Gozarian]

With that combination of digits they assume you are american citizen operating as sole proprietor (same as sole trader in UK) and want a social security number.

90% of Europe doesnt understand sole proprietors and they are also major pains to deal with when there are multiple layers of corporate entities.

[TheDA]

Originally Posted by cordoba

Medley (aff/penthouse) have been sending me a number of requests for my tax id, but as far as I know, Uk sole traders don't have a tax id.

I've sent them the completed w-9 form back several times, but each time they tell me it is incomplete or incorrect.

Last time I entered my National Insurance Number, but they've now told me that I need a tax id of the form xxx-xx-xxxx

I don't know if this means that I have to either register as a business or have to accept that I can't promote medley.

If you are fully registered with HMRC you will have a Tax Reference number, it's just not in the format they are looking for above.

[u-Bob]

W-9 is for US entities so, based on the 'UK' part of your question, you're probably sending the wrong form.

If you are based in the UK and have US activities, you'll need to send in a "Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner for United States Tax Withholding". Depending on your situation, you can either use a w8ben or a w8ben-e form for that.
It's also possible that instead of a w8ben or w8ben-e, you'll have to send in a w8imy or w8eci, depending on your situation. This is however very unlikely.

If you are based in the UK and have no US activities, you'll need to send in a "Certificate of No U.S. Activities". There's no standard form for that. Some affiliate networks will provide a draft/template for you or else you can have your accountant or lawyer write one. Or you could write it yourself.

[cordoba]

Originally Posted by TheDA

If you are fully registered with HMRC you will have a Tax Reference number, it's just not in the format they are looking for above.

thanks, you seem to have it right. I just logged into my self-assessment online account and I do have a tax ref number.

[helterskelter808]

AIUI the AFF W8 form differs from the one from the IRS. On the IRS form the "foreign tax ID, if any" is optional, perhaps because on the IRS W8 Form has a box for "Individual", whereas the AFF W8 says something like Sole Trader.

Even their own FAQ says:

"Based on our understanding, due to the nature of the services provided by the affiliate program we cannot accept a W-8BEN form from an Individual."

[...]

"as stated in the instructions to the Form W-8BEN, you must complete the Form 8233 rather than the Form W-8BEN if you believe that you are entitled to an exemption from U.S. income tax withholding on payments by us."

[...]


"If you do not have US Activities, please click on the Foreign affiliate with no US Activities link and agree to the statement on that page. In this case, no tax forms are required."

Clear as mud.

[KingNigel]

It's is not your tax reference number you need. A "Taxpayer Identification Number" (TIN) is an identification number used by the IRS in the administration of tax laws. It is issued either by the Social Security Administration (SSA) or by the IRS. A Social Security number (SSN) is issued by the SSA whereas all other TINs are issued by the IRS. UBob is right. You are probably sending in the wrong form.

[helterskelter808]

He clearly shouldn't be sending in a W9 Form, which is only for Americans. But it seems most non-US affiliates (being individuals with no US activities) do not need to fill out form W8 either. Even AFF's own FAQ says so, so fuck knows why they are asking for it.

Here's how Google Adsense puts it:

"If you do not have U.S. Activities, please visit the Tax Information page under your My Account tab where you will agree to a statement to that effect. No tax forms are required in this instance."

[BaldBishop]

u-Bob, helterskelter808 and KingNigel are right on this. If you are not an American person, W-9 is not for you. You either need fill out a W-8 form or provide a statement of no US activities. Which one depends on your personal situation. If you need to provide a statement of no US activities, AFF has already made it easy for you as helterskelter808 explained. If you do have US activities, talk to your accountant to find out which W-8 applies to your personal situation.

[natas]

hey cordoba can you beep me please, I'm having this exact same problem

thank you 156 55 034

[pornguy]

That looks like a US social security number they are demanding.

[CourtneyR]

Howdy cordoba,

they are right if you are not a US citizen then the W9 is not the correct form. You will need to send in a W8. As to which version of the form you will need to send in its best to consult a tax professional for your country if you are unsure.

drop me an email if need be

crudolph at ffn dot com

[Marcin978]

please help me

i'm from Poland

AFF wants me to provide my polish tax number in W-8BEN form

http://friendfinder.com/go/page/affiliate_forms_w8
but there is: 7. Foreign tax identifying number, if any (optional)

optional


do they really need my polish tax number?

i don't want to provide this number
i earned over 250k for that network without any tax number!
i'm not us citizen

[Simpsun]

Hey Marcin978,

unfortunately we do need that Tax ID number or our accounting dept will not accept them.

[MrCain]

Marcin978, do you have any property or staff in the U.S.? If not, W8-BEN is the wrong form for you.

[helterskelter808]

Not necessarily. If he's a business rather than an individual I think he still needs to supply W8.

(This from memory, I can't be bothered to check.)

[Emil]

Originally Posted by Marcin978

please help me

i'm from Poland

AFF wants me to provide my polish tax number in W-8BEN form

http://friendfinder.com/go/page/affiliate_forms_w8
but there is: 7. Foreign tax identifying number, if any (optional)

optional


do they really need my polish tax number?

i don't want to provide this number
i earned over 250k for that network without any tax number!
i'm not us citizen

Do you know what the word "optional" means?

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by Emil

Do you know what the word "optional" means?

Do you know what the words in the quoted post below mean?

Originally Posted by Simpsun

unfortunately we do need that Tax ID number or our accounting dept will not accept them.

[MrCain]

helterskelter808, the W8 forms only apply when the work is done inside the U.S. If he has staff inside the U.S. or owns a building there, he will have to supply a W8-BEN form. If his business has a subsidiary in the U.S., he will have to use a W8-ECI form. But if he and his business are Polish and he lives and works in Poland, he only needs to provide a statement to that effect and not a W8 form. There is no special form for this. He should type a statement, print it, sign it, scan it and email it. If AFF is audited, that signed statement supports why no Form 1099 was issued and why no tax was withheld.

[Marcin978]

Originally Posted by MrCain

Marcin978, do you have any property or staff in the U.S.? If not, W8-BEN is the wrong form for you.

I dont have anything in the us, i'm not us citizen
i live in poland in 99% of time


i told them that i'm not us citizen, i don't live in the us
but they they told me that:

We are required to obtain this information for our records. Some countries will have some kind of tax identification number. Unfortunately we do need a tax number on file. We can’t pay you without it. So your account will be marked as unable to be paid. Please refer to your tax specialist for guidance.

so what form is for me if not w8-ben?

i'm individual

AFF, do you accept my signed statement?

[california]

Several facts:

1. If you don't have employees or OWN servers in the US you don't need to send a W8 form

2. Trying to explain this to some affiliate networks is a waste of time, as they would rather err on the side of caution and get you to submit it.

3. A W8BEN for is no good without a TIN. That's most likely why AFF doesn't want to accept your form.

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by MrCain

helterskelter808, the W8 forms only apply when the work is done inside the U.S. If he has staff inside the U.S. or owns a building there, he will have to supply a W8-BEN form. If his business has a subsidiary in the U.S., he will have to use a W8-ECI form. But if he and his business are Polish and he lives and works in Poland, he only needs to provide a statement to that effect and not a W8 form. There is no special form for this. He should type a statement, print it, sign it, scan it and email it. If AFF is audited, that signed statement supports why no Form 1099 was issued and why no tax was withheld.

Yeah, I know. If you read my posts above in this thread from months ago, you'll see I understand it. I just for some reason seemed to think foreign businesses were treated differently to foreign individuals; ie, foreign businesses still needed to fill in W8, while individuals did not. Anyway, AFF's own form has the no-US interests option. No need to print off and scan anything.

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by Marcin978

I dont have anything in the us, i'm not us citizen
i live in poland in 99% of time


i told them that i'm not us citizen, i don't live in the us
but they they told me that:



so what form is for me if not w8-ben?

i'm individual

AFF, do you accept my signed statement?

Don't send anything is my advice. They probably just send the email out to everyone, regardless of circumstance. And they appear to be clueless.

[Marcin978]

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

Don't send anything is my advice. They probably just send the email out to everyone, regardless of circumstance. And they appear to be clueless.

unfortunately they suspended my payments until i provide w8 form with polish tax numer
and i have money there, i'm on revshare for over 5 years

so it seems that the only way to get money is send them my tax numer

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by Marcin978

unfortunately they suspended my payments until i provide w8 form with polish tax numer
and i have money there, i'm on revshare for over 5 years

so it seems that the only way to get money is send them my tax numer

Have they actually done it (suspended payments) or did they just that they'd do it in an email?

Edit: Nvm, I re-read your post again and it seems they did suspend and haven't paid what you have made.

Problem is they don't have a clue. Even their own site says you don't need to send any shit in.

[Marcin978]

yes they suspended my payments
i got email about w8 form about 2-3 months ago
but i was out of business and i missed it

lately i noticed no payments from AFF so i did email research and found that email

[Wizzo]

The joys of being a publicly traded company...

[helterskelter808]

Edit: fuck it. I just read my post above, from months ago, that says/explains it much better.

Marcin, out of curiosity are you an individual or a business?

[TheDA]

Originally Posted by Marcin978

unfortunately they suspended my payments until i provide w8 form with polish tax numer
and i have money there, i'm on revshare for over 5 years

so it seems that the only way to get money is send them my tax numer

Just make one up, in the right format, and send that in.

[Marcin978]

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

Edit: fuck it. I just read my post above, from months ago, that says/explains it much better.

Marcin, out of curiosity are you an individual or a business?

i'm individual

i have no choice, i must send them my POLISH taxid

[helterskelter808]

I wonder if when you send in your Tax ID the IRS contacts your country's tax people, to tell them what you're making.

[Marcin978]

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

I wonder if when you send in your Tax ID the IRS contacts your country's tax people, to tell them what you're making.

this is the most important question

as i know IRS dont need my tax id in my case

its just AFF / Medley

this is stpupid as hell, no one from usa wants my polish tax id except medley

[MrCain]

W8-BEN forms aren't sent to the IRS. They are kept on file by the company collecting them in case they ever get audited. If audited, they can use the W8 forms and similar documents to show why they didn't withhold taxes and why no 1099 form was issued.

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by Marcin978

this is the most important question

as i know IRS dont need my tax id in my case

its just AFF / Medley

this is stpupid as hell, no one from usa wants my polish tax id except medley

They're clueless. Adsense doesn't appear to need it, and I'm pretty sure Google is a slightly bigger blip on the IRS's radar than AFF, and as I said above even AFF's own websites state "due to the nature of the services provided by the FriendFinder affiliate program we cannot accept a W-8BEN form from an Individual". Which might explain why "individual" is not even an option on their W8 form.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

Don't send anything is my advice. They probably just send the email out to everyone, regardless of circumstance. And they appear to be clueless.

That was my experience. I sent them my W-9 and a lot of ID and they apparently were so careless with my sensitive personal info that they lost it. Rather than apologizing or explaining how they could have lost my ID and paperwork, they refused to explain why they no longer had all my info. Then they told me a number of things about U.S. tax law which my accountant assures me are totally false. And they said they were not going to continue paying what they owe me.

Your experience may vary.

[tfs]

As I don't make a lot of money with AFF/Cams, my accountant basically told me to tell them to fuck off and suck my dick. If they don't pay me its a write-off, and white labels and blog posts take very little time to switch out.

At least I can still log in and keep track of the money they're stealing from me. I do not give a fuck what AFF/Cams.com, or what the IRS wants.

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

That was my experience. I sent them my W-9 and a lot of ID and they apparently were so careless with my sensitive personal info that they lost it. Rather than apologizing or explaining how they could have lost my ID and paperwork, they refused to explain why they no longer had all my info. Then they told me a number of things about U.S. tax law which my accountant assures me are totally false. And they said they were not going to continue paying what they owe me.

Your experience may vary.

It's a pity, because I quite like AFF, but it seems they don't know what they are doing. This tax thing seems to be a farce.

[rowan]

Is this a new requirement? If the answer is no, then why are only AFF demanding this info?

[BaldBishop]

AFF is in financial trouble. I bet they are trying to put their ship in order before they sell everything or go begging for a loan or something. Someone who thinks he knows a few things here and there about IRS regulations and knows close to nothing international tax treaties probably told them to demand w8 forms from their foreign affiliates.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by BaldBishop

AFF is in financial trouble. I bet they are trying to put their ship in order before they sell everything or go begging for a loan or something. Someone who thinks he knows a few things here and there about IRS regulations and knows close to nothing international tax treaties probably told them to demand w8 forms from their foreign affiliates.

If they really are in as serious financial trouble as many folks say, it seems like they are coming up with bizarre paperwork requests so they can keep the funds they owe many of their affiliates. Or at least have justification to slow pay. Multiply a hundred bucks here and a fifty bucks there by a large percentage of the vast number of affiliates they must have and I expect that adds up to money.