could this be the start of ww3?

[DVTimes]

Russia begins air strikes against ISIS in Syria after warning the US to remove its planes | Daily Mail Online

[Scott McD]

Isn't there a "OMG this will be the start of WW3" every few months ??

I'm 34 and i've heard WW3 talk since i was 18...

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Russia begins air strikes against ISIS in Syria after warning the US to remove its planes | Daily Mail Online

the united states is not trying to remove the rebels.

[RummyBoy]

We're hurtling towards WW3 without a shadow of a doubt and we've been lucky to have such a long stretch of peacetime since WW2 but sadly its coming to an end..... anyone who thinks otherwise has their eyes closed. US is placing nukes in Germany, positioned to face Russia. Each of these is 3 - 4 times more powerful than Hiroshima:

Vladimir Putin responds to reports of new U.S. nukes - CNN Video

Putin: Russia was ready to put nukes on alert - CNN Video

[Rochard]

Shouldn't we be encouraging this?

The United States has a habit of saying "This person is bad, let's remove them" which just opens up the door to more problems. We did this in Iraq, and we did this in Afghanistan. We've toppled leaders in other countries too. In short, we take a bad situation and make it worse.

The United States has never liked Assad. He is not a good leader, and he has done some bad things to his country and his citizens. That is disappointing. But we have a choice between Assad or ISIS (or whatever their name is this week). The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know, and obviously in this case Assad is much better than ISIS. Military strikes into Syria by the United States and or NATO isn't a good idea; It makes Assad and the Russians nervous. Allowing the Russians to handle ISIS in Syria fixes that problem.

We know exactly what Russia wants here - They want to cement their relationship with Assad (or rather Syria), an ally in the Middle East, and a warm water port in the Mediterranean.

[GregE]

The OP's linked Daily Mail story headline reads in part: "Putin's jets are targeting anti-government rebels and NOT ISIS"

Below that headline, The Daily Mail refers to the targeted groups as "moderate rebels".

And then finally... the actual story goes on to say: "The areas struck in Homs are mostly controlled by Al-Qaeda affiliate Al-Nusra Front, while those hit in Latakia are mostly controlled by a coalition known as the Army of Conquest, which includes Al-Nusra.

Huh?

While not specifically ISIS forces, the bastards Putin bombed sure sound like worthy targets to me.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Allowing the Russians to handle ISIS in Syria fixes that problem.

Pentagon is reviewing their strikes today and there are rumours Russia isn't targeting ISIS but opponents of Assad.

[dyna mo]

according to the article, ruskies are not there to fight ISIS:::::::

The move came just hours after a unanimous vote by Russian lawmakers to allow Vladimir Putin to begin combat operations in support of Syrian President Bashar Al Assad.

Read more: Russia begins air strikes against ISIS in Syria after warning the US to remove its planes | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[GregE]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Shouldn't we be encouraging this?

The United States has a habit of saying "This person is bad, let's remove them" which just opens up the door to more problems. We did this in Iraq, and we did this in Afghanistan. We've toppled leaders in other countries too. In short, we take a bad situation and make it worse.

The United States has never liked Assad. He is not a good leader, and he has done some bad things to his country and his citizens. That is disappointing. But we have a choice between Assad or ISIS (or whatever their name is this week). The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know, and obviously in this case Assad is much better than ISIS. Military strikes into Syria by the United States and or NATO isn't a good idea; It makes Assad and the Russians nervous. Allowing the Russians to handle ISIS in Syria fixes that problem.

We know exactly what Russia wants here - They want to cement their relationship with Assad (or rather Syria), an ally in the Middle East, and a warm water port in the Mediterranean.

Well said.

Moreover, Putin is not as dumb as some people would like to believe. In addition to safeguarding Russia's only remaining Mediterranean Sea port, he's scoring PR points all over the place with this move.

[dyna mo]

this putin military move is a slap to BO's face. just like the ruskies forming a coalition with iraq and iran and keeping military intel away from USA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/wo...iran.html?_r=0

[GregE]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Pentagon is reviewing their strikes today and there are rumours Russia isn't targeting ISIS but opponents of Assad.

Clearly Putin's intent is to prop up the Assad regime. No one doubts that. But keep in mind that ISIS too opposes Assad.

I'm guessing that the groups Putin just targeted were hit first because they represent the most immediate threat to Assad.

But you needn't waste any tears on their behalf, most of the so called "moderate" rebels are affiliated with Al-Qaeda.

There are no "good guys" in this war, just some that are worse than others.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Pentagon is reviewing their strikes today and there are rumours Russia isn't targeting ISIS but opponents of Assad.

I read a similar article. They might be targeting non ISIS troops to force the US to choose between ISIS and Assad.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by GregE

Well said.

Moreover, Putin is not as dumb as some people would like to believe. In addition to safeguarding Russia's only remaining Mediterranean Sea port, he's scoring PR points all over the place with this move.

So now it's acceptable for leaders to go to war for PR points? That's horrible.

[vegasbobby]

I don't think you guys understand what's going on.

This is sort of a proxy war between the US and Russia. If not a direct one very soon. The US supports rebels in Syria against the President of Syria. Russia supports the Syrian president.

We all kind of make a excuse that it's all about the ISIS terrorists but its not now. So all you guys who love Obama cross your fingers and hope he doesn't get us into a war with Russia

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by vegasbobby

I don't think you guys understand what's going on.

This is sort of a proxy war between the US and Russia. If not a direct one very soon. The US supports rebels in Syria against the President of Syria. Russia supports the Syrian president.

We all kind of make a excuse that it's all about the ISIS terrorists but its not now. So all you guys who love Obama cross your fingers and hope he doesn't get us into a war with Russia

people always forget russia is linked to china!!

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by vegasbobby

This is sort of a proxy war between the US and Russia. If not a direct one very soon. The US supports rebels in Syria against the President of Syria. Russia supports the Syrian president.

Well you're definitely on the right path.....

We have proxy wars, real wars, currency wars. Wars and rumors of wars. The US economy and global economy is in a precarious deflationary situation. A good war is what Obama will be drawn to and by making Russia a pariah state, he's pushed Russia into a defensive stance but this will heat up real fast.

The US is doing a covert proxy war against Assad and supporting rebels to topple him but wont admit to it. Russia knows it and wants to defend Assad so they're throwing in their weapons so now we have a proxy war US vs Russia in play. Of course, Russia is just saying lets fight ISIS, knowing all too well that the US are trying to topple Assad, and knowing that they're mainly defending Assad and targeting the US fighters and US supported rebels.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by Rochard

So now it's acceptable for leaders to go to war for PR points? That's horrible.

The PR points are just an added bonus. Putin's real motive is strategic, and strategic considerations have given birth to nearly every war in human history.

More importantly, Putin didn't start this war. He's merely jumping in to protect his country's interests. Which btw, is pretty much the same reason that the USA, France and others are dropping bombs on Syria too.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

i've heard WW3 talk since i was 18...

...

[dyna mo]

this weekend, BO the diplomat, like a kid forced to shake hands after a school yard fight.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

according to the article, ruskies are not there to fight ISIS:::::::

Neither are the US and their so called coalition

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Neither are the US and their so called coalition

according to what i've read, Obama started his drone bombing campaign there last September to fight ISIS.

do you have information to the contrary?

[michael.kickass]

I've lost count of how many conflicts are out there.

[fitzmulti]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

Isn't there a "OMG this will be the start of WW3" every few months ??

I'm 34 and i've heard WW3 talk since i was 18...

I'm almost 20 years older than you & have heard this shit since I was 18...LOL...

[Abelohost]

World War 3 has long been going on. Just on a smaller scale and with fewer countries involved. But you're in the sense that more and more countries are getting involved.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Russia begins air strikes against ISIS in Syria after warning the US to remove its planes | Daily Mail Online

yep 3 is coming just watched the original red dawn
stocked up

and 300 gallons of mountain dew hooooo!!!!

[fitzmulti]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

yep 3 is coming just watched the original red dawn
stocked up 300 gallons of mountain dew hooooo!!!!

Hope it was the throwback, SUGAR, kind! :P

[JFK]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

according to what i've read, Obama started his drone bombing campaign there last September to fight ISIS.

do you have information to the contrary?

Putin called me , right after Bama, they said y'all's full of shit

[EddyTheDog]

I'm not sure what I would do if the shit hits the fan - Try and survive or hope one of the fuckers lands on my head...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by vegasbobby

I don't think you guys understand what's going on.

This is sort of a proxy war between the US and Russia. If not a direct one very soon. The US supports rebels in Syria against the President of Syria. Russia supports the Syrian president.

I understand this perfectly. But it shouldn't be this way. We shouldn't be against Assad because Syria has always been in the Russian camp. We need to stop drawing lines in the sand saying "You are either with the United States, or with Russia". Instead, say, you are with Russia, if you need something from us just let us know.

Removing Assad will accomplish nothing. He will be replaced by something similar, and Syria will still be in the Russian camp.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by GregE

The PR points are just an added bonus. Putin's real motive is strategic, and strategic considerations have given birth to nearly every war in human history.

I don't really see how this is of any strategic value for him. I understand Syria is really their own ally in the Middle East, and I understand he wants a warm water port in the Mediterranean... but.... Take a look at a map and look where Syria is in the Mediterranean - While it might be close to Israel and might come into play over a fight for the Suez Canal, it would be difficult to defend - The Mediterranean ocean is completely dominated by NATO. In the event of a major war, this port / military base would be the first thing attacked, impossible to defend, and impossible to supply.

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by GregE

The OP's linked Daily Mail story headline reads in part: "Putin's jets are targeting anti-government rebels and NOT ISIS"

Below that headline, The Daily Mail refers to the targeted groups as "moderate rebels".

And then finally... the actual story goes on to say: "The areas struck in Homs are mostly controlled by Al-Qaeda affiliate Al-Nusra Front, while those hit in Latakia are mostly controlled by a coalition known as the Army of Conquest, which includes Al-Nusra.

Huh?

While not specifically ISIS forces, the bastards Putin bombed sure sound like worthy targets to me.

No those are the other other *good* al qaeda that we want to ally with because Assad is a bad guy so that makes any al qaeda within a 500 mile radius of him into good al qaeda, see the logic there?

Our policy of destabilizing arab states is the stupidest thing we've ever done in 100 years.

[j3rkules]

I don't care if Russia hits ISIS, al-Nusra or the so-called 'Free Syrian Army', just as long as Muslim fanatics are being killed.

[JuicyBunny]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I read a similar article. They might be targeting non ISIS troops to force the US to choose between ISIS and Assad.

No. Syria and Russia are long time allies. Long time.

Russia's actions are in order to maintain Assad and stop the US/Israeli coup attempts. US does not give two fucks about IS. Hell, probably there latest creation.

Half of Syria is now in EU. EU does not want them and many of them/most, given the choice of there or peaceful Syria would choose Syria.

The current US position smells of annexation or install of another fake Iraqi-style government.

This assistance from Putin could be the catalyst to unite the ME against the US and Putin knows it. Leaving out the usual US lapdogs of course.

[JuicyBunny]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Well you're definitely on the right path.....

We have proxy wars, real wars, currency wars. Wars and rumors of wars. The US economy and global economy is in a precarious deflationary situation. A good war is what Obama will be drawn to and by making Russia a pariah state, he's pushed Russia into a defensive stance but this will heat up real fast.

The US is doing a covert proxy war against Assad and supporting rebels to topple him but wont admit to it. Russia knows it and wants to defend Assad so they're throwing in their weapons so now we have a proxy war US vs Russia in play. Of course, Russia is just saying lets fight ISIS, knowing all too well that the US are trying to topple Assad, and knowing that they're mainly defending Assad and targeting the US fighters and US supported rebels.

There ya go. People seem content to read what leaders say and take that for fact vs, reading what they say and watch what they do.

I am sure its just a coincidence China and Russia have been carrying out drills in the Med, together. lol.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by JuicyBunny

No. Syria and Russia are long time allies. Long time.

Yes.

Originally Posted by JuicyBunny

Russia's actions are in order to maintain Assad and stop the US/Israeli coup attempts. US does not give two fucks about IS. Hell, probably there latest creation.

Yes, Russia's actions are in order to maintain Assad, or more specifically the Syrian government.

The US does give two fucks about IS; They are fighting them in Iraq.

Originally Posted by JuicyBunny

The current US position smells of annexation or install of another fake Iraqi-style government.

Yes, but huge differences between Iraq and Syria. Iraq wasn't in the sphere or Russian influence as Syria has always been. The United States wants to see Assad removed, but will not act on it.

Originally Posted by JuicyBunny

This assistance from Putin could be the catalyst to unite the ME against the US and Putin knows it.

Not at all. The Middle East cannot unite against anything, at all, ever. Multiple US invasions have failed to be the catalyst for anything, and Syria will surely not change anything.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I understand this perfectly. But it shouldn't be this way. We shouldn't be against Assad because Syria has always been in the Russian camp. We need to stop drawing lines in the sand saying "You are either with the United States, or with Russia". Instead, say, you are with Russia, if you need something from us just let us know.

Removing Assad will accomplish nothing. He will be replaced by something similar, and Syria will still be in the Russian camp.

Justification for the West/Coalition to support ousting Assad :

The Qatar-Turkey pipeline is a proposed natural gas pipeline running from the Iranian-Qatari South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline to supply European customers as well as Turkey. One route to Turkey is via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria,[1][2] and another is through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq.[3][4] Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."[1]

In 2012 an analyst cited by Ansa Mediterranean suggested that Qatar's involvement in the Syrian civil war was based in part on its desire to build a pipeline to Turkey through Syria:

... always think OIL/GAS ... just dollars ....

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Justification for the West/Coalition to support ousting Assad :

... always think OIL/GAS ... just dollars ....

This is what they said about Afghanistan - we invaded to take control of an oil pipeline that hasn't been built. Since then the United States has become one of the largest producers of oil in the world.

I think the primary objective of the United States is to destroy ISIS. The secondary objective is to remove Assad, which isn't a huge priority - he's been in office for decades - and isn't going to happen any time soon.

At the same time, the US wants to have a minimum footprint in this battle. The US is tired of wars that have no end. I believe it is highly unlikely that we will be putting boots on the ground to take on Syrian forces to get rid of Assad in the near future.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by JuicyBunny

There ya go. People seem content to read what leaders say and take that for fact vs, reading what they say and watch what they do.

Of course, that's mainly the case.
Here's the latest where news media isn't afraid to admit it:

Russian airstrikes in Syria unnerve Pentagon | Watch the video - Yahoo Finance

[dyna mo]

so word around the coffee machine this morning is the ruskies are targeting USA-backed rebels.


thanks obama!

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

so word around the coffee machine this morning is the ruskies are targeting USA-backed rebels.

Yep, it is a proxy war afterall:

Putin Begins Bombing in Syria, but ISIS Isn?t His Only Target - Yahoo Finance

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...d-rebels-syria

OFFICIALLY: UNITED STATES VS RUSSIA

Guys, please don't treat CyberSEO any differently. He is our Russian and we love him dearly even if we jibe him from time to time.... invite me for that coffee table. I want to argue with you over a Columbian coffee and Cuban cigar!

[celandina]

My view ? thanks for Putin saving American ass in Iraq and Syria. A Russian state has at least some pride left to fight ISIS. The rest of the World just talks nonsense just like Chamberlain did in 1938...

Does not anybody learn from history....??

Only the big mouth Trump got this one right!!

[PornDude]

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Yep, it is a proxy war afterall:

Putin Begins Bombing in Syria, but ISIS Isn?t His Only Target - Yahoo Finance

Washington Blasts Putin For Russian Strikes On "CIA-Backed Rebels" In Syria | Zero Hedge

OFFICIALLY: UNITED STATES VS RUSSIA

Guys, please don't treat CyberSEO any differently. He is our Russian and we love him dearly even if we jibe him from time to time....

my earlier posts already went to this point. and i give cyberschmoe such a hard time, he put me on ignore.

i was going to add a "thanks obama" but didn't want to upset the BO apologists.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by celandina

My view ? thanks for Putin saving American ass in Iraq and Syria. A Russian state has at least some pride left to fight ISIS. The rest of the World just talks nonsense just like Chamberlain did in 1938...

Does not anybody learn from history....??

Only the big mouth Trump got this one right!!

The problem is Russia isn't fighting ISIS. Russia is bombing everyone except for ISIS. Russia seems to be less interested beating back ISIS and more interested in keeping Assad in power, and going after everyone who is fighting Assad except for ISIS.