So, who is lying, Paxum or Payoneer? - GoFuckYourself.com

Kovachi · 11-26-2012, 03:02 PM

In regards to Mastercard refunds and the cards being blocked -

Paxum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

We know how frustrating this is and we completely agree with you. The card gets blocked by Choice Bank as part of their recent policies, and we to fight to unblock it. By the way, this is the same for every program that uses Choice Bank to issue cards not just us. In fact,Choice Bank does not allow deposits to prepaid credit cards from external sources and when a refund is processed, Choice automatically classifies as external funding. At that point it is up to us to actually prove that it is not funding but rather a refund for a past purchase made on that t same card. The bank requires a scan or screenshot from the card holder, as they are convinced that the merchant always gives a receipt along with the refund.

It's not a mastercard rule - its a Choice Bank rule.

Payoneer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nissim-Payoneer

Yes, the Payoneer card is issued by Choice Bank in Belize.

No, we will not block your card if you receive a transaction reversal/refund to the card.

If the credit/refund was not originally charged to your card, we may contact you for information (as a security procedure).

Very interesting.

RuthB · 11-26-2012, 03:18 PM

My answer would be neither...

Choice Bank is the card provider for both Paxum and Payoneer, however that does not mean that our agreements are exactly the same.

According to Paxum's agreement with Choice, cards are blocked for checking on refunds that are older than 30 days from the original transaction date. If any client has experienced a card block in relation to a refund for a transaction under 30 days old, please contact us immediately.

We have also been informed that any blocks relating to a Paypal refund will be swiftly removed. If this happens to anyone, again please contact us immediately to have the situation rectified.

Kovachi · 11-26-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

My answer would be neither...

Choice Bank is the card provider for both Paxum and Payoneer, however that does not mean that our agreements are exactly the same.

Look above, did you read this line from your own counter-part Chris?

"By the way, this is the same for every program that uses Choice Bank to issue cards not just us"

Gotta laugh at the same company saying two different things.

_Richard_ · 11-26-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovachi

Look above, did you read this line from your own counter-part Chris?

"By the way, this is the same for every program that uses Choice Bank to issue cards not just us"

Gotta laugh at the same company saying two different things.

seems more of a personal misunderstanding on chris' part

RuthB · 11-26-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovachi

Look above, did you read this line from your own counter-part Chris?

"By the way, this is the same for every program that uses Choice Bank to issue cards not just us"

Gotta laugh at the same company saying two different things.

Actually, as happens sometimes, more information came to light as a result of these queries. Both Chris and myself are predominantly sales here at Paxum, and so we aren't always fully aware of specifics pertaining to individual situations, particularly with regards to support issues.

Our assumption was that Choice bank had the same agreement with all their prepaid card accounts, however as a result of this query we were both informed otherwise.

Therefore, at the time my colleague posted the above quoted statement, he was posting what he believed to be true at the time.

We do apologize that the incorrect information was initially posted.

Thanks

AdultPornMasta · 11-26-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

My answer would be neither...

Choice Bank is the card provider for both Paxum and Payoneer, however that does not mean that our agreements are exactly the same.

According to Paxum's agreement with Choice, cards are blocked for checking on refunds that are older than 30 days from the original transaction date. If any client has experienced a card block in relation to a refund for a transaction under 30 days old, please contact us immediately.

We have also been informed that any blocks relating to a Paypal refund will be swiftly removed. If this happens to anyone, again please contact us immediately to have the situation rectified.

It's a good thing that you are around here Ruth, as the average adult webmaster knows about as much of the TOS of the credit card companies as he or she does about microbic aquatic life forms.

Thank you for all the hard work that you put in to making Paxum work for us all!

Kovachi · 11-26-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

Both Chris and myself are predominantly sales here at Paxum, and so we aren't always fully aware of specifics

Thanks, noted

sarettah · 11-26-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

Both Chris and myself are predominantly sales here at Paxum, and so we aren't always fully aware of specifics pertaining to individual situations, particularly with regards to support issues.

Damn, someone not afraid to say that they don't always know.

Very refreshing

Just earned points in my book.

.

Adraco · 11-26-2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovachi

Look above, did you read this line from your own counter-part Chris?

"By the way, this is the same for every program that uses Choice Bank to issue cards not just us"

Gotta laugh at the same company saying two different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

Actually, as happens sometimes, more information came to light as a result of these queries. Both Chris and myself are predominantly sales here at Paxum, and so we aren't always fully aware of specifics pertaining to individual situations, particularly with regards to support issues.

Our assumption was that Choice bank had the same agreement with all their prepaid card accounts, however as a result of this query we were both informed otherwise.

Therefore, at the time my colleague posted the above quoted statement, he was posting what he believed to be true at the time.

We do apologize that the incorrect information was initially posted.

Thanks

No, what happend here is not "incorrect information was posted"
What did happen was that Chris posted his BELIEFS, and if one does that, in his position and under those circumstances one should clearly type that.

He should have said
"I believe this to be the same rules or TOS for everyone using Choice bank for their prepaid cards"
Keywords: "I believe"

Instead, he stated it as a fact,
"By the way, this is the same for every program that uses Choice Bank to issue cards not just us"
Keywords: "this is the same"
on top of that, stated with a "by the way" which is often used to show that "I am right" or "I know the real circumstances, you do not...". With that he comes across as condescending and know-it-all, which makes it even worse when he then is proven wrong.

The ONLY thing to do in such position, would be to fully apologize and then learn the lesson to not do statements about things unknown to oneself or clearly label them as beliefs. He could have said "I will check if both we and Payoneer have the same TOS with Choice Bank and come back with an answer" or even just say that "Since I work for Paxum, I can only speak for us and we have x and y rules that apply to us".

Making bold statements, about others, which are wrong, are just bad for business and one owns reputation.

EddyTheDog · 11-26-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

I will check if both we and Payoneer have the same TOS with Choice Bank and come back with an answer"

I didn't realize he was aware that the OP was asking Payoneer the question as well. Where did you get that from?

lagcam · 11-26-2012, 06:03 PM

Payoneer's policy sounds reasonable. Paxum's does not, but nothing surprises me about this.

Michael O · 11-26-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovachi

In regards to Mastercard refunds and the cards being blocked -

Paxum:

Payoneer:

Very interesting.

RedPass also uses Choice Bank but since we own the BIN of the cards issued Choice Bank issue the cards on our behalf so our agreement can differ from others using Choice Bank. The back of our cards says "Issued by Choice Bank".

We do not allow withdrawals from Paypal for example to our cards and will reject such transfers but when it comes to refunds and reversals, we do not block the RedPass MasterCard we check if there have been a purchase at that merchant before declining a refund or reversal.

lagcam · 11-26-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael O

RedPass also uses Choice Bank but since we own the BIN of the cards issued Choice Bank issue the cards on our behalf so our agreement can differ from others using Choice Bank. The back of our cards says "Issued by Choice Bank".

We do not allow withdrawals from Paypal for example to our cards and will reject such transfers but when it comes to refunds and reversals, we do not block the RedPass MasterCard we check if there have been a purchase at that merchant before declining a refund or reversal.

Also makes sense.

Seems crazy to use a paxum card for a purchase of anything as it leaves you with zero recourse and probably out of pocket when a merchant can't refund to the card you paid from, and won't refund another way.

crazydollars · 11-26-2012, 08:42 PM

more bullshit from Paxum

Nissim-Payoneer · 11-28-2012, 03:55 PM

Hi Guys,

I can't comment as to any other company's policies/regulations, but I'd just like to again confirm that of Payoneer. Payoneer will not block your card if you receive a refund or reversal to it.

Of course, as a fully regulated company and US Money Service Business, we have security procedures and regulations in place to protect your financial security. However any action made to disable an account (which is rare) would be done so after investigating the issue and being confident that there is a likelihood of fraudulent activity.

I'd be more than happy to answer any additional questions regarding Payoneer.

EddyTheDog · 11-28-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nissim-Payoneer

Hi Guys,

I can't comment as to any other company's policies/regulations, but I'd just like to again confirm that of Payoneer. Payoneer will not block your card if you receive a refund or reversal to it.

Of course, as a fully regulated company and US Money Service Business, we have security procedures and regulations in place to protect your financial security. However any action made to disable an account (which is rare) would be done so after investigating the issue and being confident that there is a likelihood of fraudulent activity.

I'd be more than happy to answer any additional questions regarding Payoneer.

Is there any difference in policy if the refund is issued before or after 30 days after the purchase?

That seems to be the issue with Paxum.

Nissim-Payoneer · 11-28-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog

Is there any difference in policy if the refund is issued before or after 30 days after the purchase?

That seems to be the issue with Paxum.

No, duration between the original transaction and date of the refund would not be relevant (meaning no change in the policy)

GAMEFINEST · 11-28-2012, 04:14 PM

When it comes to CCs,

No one knows shit.

V_RocKs · 11-28-2012, 04:15 PM

I like apples... But I also like oranges too.

tfs · 11-28-2012, 04:28 PM

Money. Motion. Been there, done that.

Supz · 11-28-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adraco

No, what happend here is not "incorrect information was posted"
What did happen was that Chris posted his BELIEFS, and if one does that, in his position and under those circumstances one should clearly type that.

He should have said
"I believe this to be the same rules or TOS for everyone using Choice bank for their prepaid cards"
Keywords: "I believe"

Instead, he stated it as a fact,
"By the way, this is the same for every program that uses Choice Bank to issue cards not just us"
Keywords: "this is the same"
on top of that, stated with a "by the way" which is often used to show that "I am right" or "I know the real circumstances, you do not...". With that he comes across as condescending and know-it-all, which makes it even worse when he then is proven wrong.

The ONLY thing to do in such position, would be to fully apologize and then learn the lesson to not do statements about things unknown to oneself or clearly label them as beliefs. He could have said "I will check if both we and Payoneer have the same TOS with Choice Bank and come back with an answer" or even just say that "Since I work for Paxum, I can only speak for us and we have x and y rules that apply to us".

Making bold statements, about others, which are wrong, are just bad for business and one owns reputation.

The way he posted his belief was as if it was fact. He shouldnt have posted something he did not know about.

Supz · 11-28-2012, 04:45 PM

So Payoneer has a better agreement with choice bank then paxum? Why would the agreement differ.

fuzebox · 11-28-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supz

So Payoneer has a better agreement with choice bank then paxum? Why would the agreement differ.

Payoneers relationship to Choice Bank is slightly different than any other company's

dig420 · 11-28-2012, 08:08 PM

Ruth, why does Paxum keep telling me my business Visa card MUST be enrolled in the Verified by Visa program before I can use it? Business cards aren't allowed in the VbV program at all.

EddyTheDog · 11-28-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supz

The way he posted his belief was as if it was fact. He shouldnt have posted something he did not know about.

He was obviously under the impression that these were the facts.

Its called being wrong and can happen to the best of us.

What a load of BS this thread is....

v4 media · 11-29-2012, 01:03 AM

So when Choice Bank goes belly up, everyone is fucked?

Why is it always these offshore banks.

nico-t · 11-29-2012, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v4 media

So when Choice Bank goes belly up, everyone is fucked?

Why is it always these offshore banks.

For tax purposes obviously.
And 'the other' offshore bank (of st. kitts) that epassporte used didnt go belly up - it was epass themselves that fucked up.

RuthB · 12-03-2012, 11:49 AM

Hi Everyone,

We spoke to Choice Bank and we requested they provide us with an informative letter regarding this issue. We hope this helps clear up any confusion.

Please view the letter below:

Please note that "Charge Back Credit Adjustment" cited in the letter equals REFUND

All cards are now active, and we have established a working pattern in order to get things running quickly.

We hope this provides a conclusion to this matter, and we look forward to continue serving your payment needs!

If anyone has any questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch with us!

Ruth

JFK · 12-03-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

Hi Everyone,

We spoke to Choice Bank and we requested they provide us with an informative letter regarding this issue. We hope this helps clear up any confusion.

Please view the letter below:

Please note that "Charge Back Credit Adjustment" cited in the letter equals REFUND

All cards are now active, and we have established a working pattern in order to get things running quickly.

We hope this provides a conclusion to this matter, and we look forward to continue serving your payment needs!

If anyone has any questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch with us!

Ruth

Thanks Ruth

RuthB · 12-03-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFK

Thanks Ruth

You're welcome!

We can't speak for other programs, and we can't tell whether they are subject to this rule, but it does seem to be a Choice bank policy. We recommend other ewallet/payment programs double-check with their account manager to avoid any nasty surprises.

lagcam · 12-03-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

You're welcome!

We can't speak for other programs, and we can't tell whether they are subject to this rule, but it does seem to be a Choice bank policy. We recommend other ewallet/payment programs double-check with their account manager to avoid any nasty surprises.

Don't worry about the other ewallet/payment programs, I think they already know how their cards work.

Nice to see Paxum know NOW how their cards work also.

Adraco · 12-04-2012, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RuthB

You're welcome!

We can't speak for other programs, and we can't tell whether they are subject to this rule, but it does seem to be a Choice bank policy. We recommend other ewallet/payment programs double-check with their account manager to avoid any nasty surprises.

I'm sorry, but this is getting funny.

So, you say you can't speak for other programs, but instead making yourself spokesperson for Choice Bank and what their policys might be?

For the ease of everyone, stick to making statements about the company you work for and what rules and agreements YOU have in place and what applies to YOU, not anyone else.

The lesson from Chris' post should have been that of Mark Twain:
?It ain?t what you don?t know that gets you into trouble. It?s what you know for sure that just ain?t so?.

Zombaio_Tomas · 12-10-2012, 01:49 AM

Let me just clarify one thing from RedPass/Zombaio's side. We own our own BIN, processor and all agreement is direct agreement with MasterCard. Both for Issuing and acquiring. Compared to co-branding partnership with Choice Bank that some of our competitors have, owning a BIN means full control over all card program parameters. Simplified; none except MasterCard can tell you what to do.

However, even if you own your bin, you need a sponsoring BANK, for that we have chosen Choice Bank. However, choice banks co-branded card programs are process in one part of the world with one processing solution/card parameters/etc and our program in another part of the world with completely own parameters/etc. Should you have problem with the sponsored bank, when owning a BIN and the processor agreement, you can just switch bank.

In the RedPass case, we have own MC agreements, own collateral's, program type. And we can control how we will conduct business by adjusting those parameters.

Bottom line:
So just because the 3 of us (i think all know who I refer to) uses Choice Bank as sponsoring/issuing bank, does not mean we all have the same rules/policy/thresholds/fees etc. I know 2 of us own our BIN, the other program is a co-branded program. Fully dependent on Choice Bank.

We use Choice Bank as sponsored bank for card issuing, and we honor refunds without any problem. Should we get a lot of fraudulent refunds without a matching purchase, we would of course investigate that, but not until then.

bean-aid · 12-10-2012, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombaio_Tomas

Bottom line:
So just because the 3 of us (i think all know who I refer to) uses Choice Bank as sponsoring/issuing bank, does not mean we all have the same rules/policy/thresholds/fees etc. I know 2 of us own our BIN, the other program is a co-branded program. Fully dependent on Choice Bank.

Great... now just have some customer service that is worth a shit. Including everything that is usually considered customer service... you should have. Just sayin'

11-26-2012, 03:18 PM	#2
RuthB Let's Get Paxumized! Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 7,247	My answer would be neither... Choice Bank is the card provider for both Paxum and Payoneer, however that does not mean that our agreements are exactly the same. According to Paxum's agreement with Choice, cards are blocked for checking on refunds that are older than 30 days from the original transaction date. If any client has experienced a card block in relation to a refund for a transaction under 30 days old, please contact us immediately. We have also been informed that any blocks relating to a Paypal refund will be swiftly removed. If this happens to anyone, again please contact us immediately to have the situation rectified. __________________ Send & Receive Mass Global Payments - Mass P2P/Wire/EFT/SEPA - Adult Industry Friendly - Award Winning Payment Service - Fast, Reliable & Secure! Paxum ...... Paxum Bank Email: [email protected] ~ Telegram: PaxumRuth

11-26-2012, 06:03 PM	#11
lagcam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,892	Payoneer's policy sounds reasonable. Paxum's does not, but nothing surprises me about this. __________________ Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

11-28-2012, 04:14 PM	#18
GAMEFINEST Make STACK$ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sexy time Posts: 14,433	When it comes to CCs, No one knows shit. __________________ Compound interest.

12-03-2012, 11:49 AM	#28
RuthB Let's Get Paxumized! Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 7,247	Hi Everyone, We spoke to Choice Bank and we requested they provide us with an informative letter regarding this issue. We hope this helps clear up any confusion. Please view the letter below: Please note that "Charge Back Credit Adjustment" cited in the letter equals REFUND All cards are now active, and we have established a working pattern in order to get things running quickly. We hope this provides a conclusion to this matter, and we look forward to continue serving your payment needs! If anyone has any questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch with us! Ruth __________________ Send & Receive Mass Global Payments - Mass P2P/Wire/EFT/SEPA - Adult Industry Friendly - Award Winning Payment Service - Fast, Reliable & Secure! Paxum ...... Paxum Bank Email: [email protected] ~ Telegram: PaxumRuth

12-10-2012, 01:49 AM	#33
Zombaio_Tomas Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Zombaio.com Posts: 382	Let me just clarify one thing from RedPass/Zombaio's side. We own our own BIN, processor and all agreement is direct agreement with MasterCard. Both for Issuing and acquiring. Compared to co-branding partnership with Choice Bank that some of our competitors have, owning a BIN means full control over all card program parameters. Simplified; none except MasterCard can tell you what to do. However, even if you own your bin, you need a sponsoring BANK, for that we have chosen Choice Bank. However, choice banks co-branded card programs are process in one part of the world with one processing solution/card parameters/etc and our program in another part of the world with completely own parameters/etc. Should you have problem with the sponsored bank, when owning a BIN and the processor agreement, you can just switch bank. In the RedPass case, we have own MC agreements, own collateral's, program type. And we can control how we will conduct business by adjusting those parameters. Bottom line: So just because the 3 of us (i think all know who I refer to) uses Choice Bank as sponsoring/issuing bank, does not mean we all have the same rules/policy/thresholds/fees etc. I know 2 of us own our BIN, the other program is a co-branded program. Fully dependent on Choice Bank. We use Choice Bank as sponsored bank for card issuing, and we honor refunds without any problem. Should we get a lot of fraudulent refunds without a matching purchase, we would of course investigate that, but not until then. __________________

11-26-2012, 08:42 PM	#14
crazydollars So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 146	more bullshit from Paxum

11-28-2012, 03:55 PM	#15
Nissim-Payoneer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 138	Hi Guys, I can't comment as to any other company's policies/regulations, but I'd just like to again confirm that of Payoneer. Payoneer will not block your card if you receive a refund or reversal to it. Of course, as a fully regulated company and US Money Service Business, we have security procedures and regulations in place to protect your financial security. However any action made to disable an account (which is rare) would be done so after investigating the issue and being confident that there is a likelihood of fraudulent activity. I'd be more than happy to answer any additional questions regarding Payoneer.

11-28-2012, 04:15 PM	#19
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,409	I like apples... But I also like oranges too.

11-28-2012, 04:28 PM	#20
tfs Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 624	Money. Motion. Been there, done that.

11-28-2012, 04:45 PM	#22
Supz Arthur Flegenheimer Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 11,056	So Payoneer has a better agreement with choice bank then paxum? Why would the agreement differ.

11-28-2012, 08:08 PM	#24
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	Ruth, why does Paxum keep telling me my business Visa card MUST be enrolled in the Verified by Visa program before I can use it? Business cards aren't allowed in the VbV program at all.

11-29-2012, 01:03 AM	#26
v4 media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 2,934	So when Choice Bank goes belly up, everyone is fucked? Why is it always these offshore banks.