USA: Land of the free??NOT!

[inthecrack]

There's plenty of great things America has going for it with many awesome people and great opportunities. However I find myself becoming increasingly disillusioned with what America has become. While the country was founded on solid principles of democracy and freedoms it is getting more obvious that the US has lost it's way and bogged down into a mess of bureaucracy and authoritarianism. Though I am a law abiding person I cannot help but feel oppressed any time I visit the USA. Though the common citizen in US is a decent caring person it seems that those in a position of power including government, customs, law enforcement and military are on a mad power trip. The attitude appears to be to regulate and enforce the hell out of everything, paralyzing progress and productivity in the process and to meddle in everyone else's affaires. It's not enough to try to just control your own country but you have to overstep your bounds and influence the entire world as well.

What is it with the US prison population? Here's some pretty appalling statistics I found. The source: http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/u...-largest-world and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States

In spite of having only 4.5% of the world's population the US has 23% of world's prisoners.
The US has more prisoners than all other developed nations combined.
More than half of all black men without a high-school diploma go to prison at some time in their lives.
3.1% of adults in the U.S. resident population are under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison).
In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole). In 2008 the breakdown for adults under correctional control was as follows: one out of 18 men, one in 89 women, one in 11 African-Americans (9.2 percent), one in 27 Latinos (3.7 percent), and one in 45 Caucasians (2.2 percent).

Apparently the US is just creating criminals with an overzealous and misguided bent for punishment and revenge. I gotta think a great number of these prisoners are just victims of extreme sentences and overzealous legal enforcement such as the war on drugs. Was nothing learned from the follies of prohibition? What is the real human cost of all these incarcerations? Every one of these prisoners has innocent mothers, fathers, and often sons and daughters that suffer almost as much from their incarceration. Not to mention the financial burden on the federal budget and tax payers to house all of these "criminals".

An American friend of mine actually spent a month in jail for "crossing the street". How did this come about? He got a ticket for j-walking and then forgot about it. Before long he had a warrant for his arrest and a $1000 fine. Since he refused to pay the ridiculous fine he spent a month in jail.

A Canadian friend of mine was denied entry into US by customs because 25 years previous he was caught with one gram of marijuana. 3 years later he is still waiting for his pardon.

What is it with the US military spending? 20% of the total US budget is spent on the military. The US military budget is more than the next 20 largest military spenders combined. WTF? Perhaps if the US didn't meddle in everyone else's affairs then there would be less hatred aimed at the US and therefore no need for such a monumental waste of money.

Here's an interesting article on the abuse of power in US government http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...ntion-citizens

Those American's who beat their chest and claim "greatest country in the world" should pipe down a little and have some humility until such time as America once again truly becomes the land of the free. If you can get over your enormous power trip, stop suing each other, separate church and state, and reform the prison system then we could possibly all agree, "greatest country in the world". Hell I'd even want to live there myself.

[Harmon]

So you claim that the US is creating prisoners? Couldn't it be that they just police their own better? People generally are not doing any kind of hard time for petty offenses. These are drug dealers, rapists murderers and child molesters.

Do you honestly think that these crimes do not occur in other countries? We just catch them, other countries have these idiots running around free.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Harmon

So you claim that the US is creating prisoners? Couldn't it be that they just police their own better? People generally are not doing any kind of hard time for petty offenses. These are drug dealers, rapists murderers and child molesters.

Do you honestly think that these crimes do not occur in other countries? We just catch them, other countries have these idiots running around free.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w...b_1414467.html

[Harmon]

Fucking Huff post.

Like a commenter at the bottom of that article states

The black and hispanic gangbangers, murderers, thieves, drug dealers, assailants, etc... are there for crimes. They are not there for being black and brown. Try to get a grip and remember that. Their are some very dangerous people locked up.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by Harmon

So you claim that the US is creating prisoners? Couldn't it be that they just police their own better? People generally are not doing any kind of hard time for petty offenses. These are drug dealers, rapists murderers and child molesters.

Do you honestly think that these crimes do not occur in other countries? We just catch them, other countries have these idiots running around free.

Seriously?

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

Seriously?

No, you're right. People do not get murdered, robbed or fucked against their will EVER. Everybody that is in prison is innocent and just a pawn in some huge money making scheme.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by Harmon

No, you're right. People do not get murdered, robbed or fucked against their will EVER. Everybody that is in prison is innocent and just a pawn in some huge money making scheme.

Of course there are plenty of people deserving to be in prison, however those statistics are not alarming at all for you? Does not make you wonder?

[BIGTYMER]

I'll just leave this here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

[Theo]

How do you feel oppressed as a tourist?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Fucking Huff post.

OK, pick any other source then

https://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...nvDYWV0QX6sIFI

Truth is that if you run prisons for a profit, you are motivated to imprison more people for more petty crimes.

No one is suggesting that rapists and murderers shouldn't be imprisoned, so forget that straw man and explain why you think if a service is run for profit, they are not incentivised to increase their customer base.

[kane]

Originally Posted by inthecrack

There's plenty of great things America has going for it with many awesome people and great opportunities. However I find myself becoming increasingly disillusioned with what America has become. While the country was founded on solid principles of democracy and freedoms it is getting more obvious that the US has lost it's way and bogged down into a mess of bureaucracy and authoritarianism. Though I am a law abiding person I cannot help but feel oppressed any time I visit the USA. Though the common citizen in US is a decent caring person it seems that those in a position of power including government, customs, law enforcement and military are on a mad power trip. The attitude appears to be to regulate and enforce the hell out of everything, paralyzing progress and productivity in the process and to meddle in everyone else's affaires. It's not enough to try to just control your own country but you have to overstep your bounds and influence the entire world as well.

What is it with the US prison population? Here's some pretty appalling statistics I found. The source: http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/u...-largest-world and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States



Apparently the US is just creating criminals with an overzealous and misguided bent for punishment and revenge. I gotta think a great number of these prisoners are just victims of extreme sentences and overzealous legal enforcement such as the war on drugs. Was nothing learned from the follies of prohibition? What is the real human cost of all these incarcerations? Every one of these prisoners has innocent mothers, fathers, and often sons and daughters that suffer almost as much from their incarceration. Not to mention the financial burden on the federal budget and tax payers to house all of these "criminals".

An American friend of mine actually spent a month in jail for "crossing the street". How did this come about? He got a ticket for j-walking and then forgot about it. Before long he had a warrant for his arrest and a $1000 fine. Since he refused to pay the ridiculous fine he spent a month in jail.

A Canadian friend of mine was denied entry into US by customs because 25 years previous he was caught with one gram of marijuana. 3 years later he is still waiting for his pardon.

What is it with the US military spending? 20% of the total US budget is spent on the military. The US military budget is more than the next 20 largest military spenders combined. WTF? Perhaps if the US didn't meddle in everyone else's affairs then there would be less hatred aimed at the US and therefore no need for such a monumental waste of money.

Here's an interesting article on the abuse of power in US government http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...ntion-citizens

Those American's who beat their chest and claim "greatest country in the world" should pipe down a little and have some humility until such time as America once again truly becomes the land of the free. If you can get over your enormous power trip, stop suing each other, separate church and state, and reform the prison system then we could possibly all agree, "greatest country in the world". Hell I'd even want to live there myself.

Two things.
1. You friend didn't go to jail for a month for j walking. He went to jail for not appearing in court and then refusing a court order.

Is $1,000 a ridiculous amount to fine someone for J walking? Sure, but had he been responsible and showed up for court when he originally was supposed to he would have paid a small fine and been happily on his way.

2. You say when you visit the US you feel oppressed. What is it that you want to do that the laws are keeping you from doing?

I will agree that our legal system is fucked up and we don't deal well with prisoners, but I live my life pretty much doing what I want on a day to day basis and don't feel oppressed at all so I am always curious about those who do.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

Of course there are plenty of people deserving to be in prison, however those statistics are not alarming at all for you? Does not make you wonder?

Welcome to a Capitalist society. More money in prisons than in education and rehab.

Some time ago US lawmakers decided to penalize dimwits rather than fix schools, society. I respect Sweden for that. they realized society/family was breaking down and took steps to avoid collapse. In Us, capitalist pigs that we are, decided there was more profit in caging animals rather than fixing.

People have to get a grip, if they are not going to overthrow this shitbag government here then they must deal with the fact that there are no feelings, emotions, love in boardrooms and halls of congress...just our collective net worth and how much they can screw out of us until we're dead.

A couple broken into a rental house of mine once. Tried to steal some shit but house was empty and they couldn't get the fridge out the door. They left their car and house keys with their name and address on the chain sitting on the washer.

What were the cops going to do?

"Hello, ma'am, while breaking into this gentleman's house you left your keys. Can we send a car over to return them? We would not want you and your crack husband to endure any duress?"

But all in all I am disgusted with the private prison system here. Half the elected and appointed officials should be in there, with the animals...for a few years.

US is in a downward spiral... Laugh at the ride as it goes off its tracks.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Harmon

So you claim that the US is creating prisoners? Couldn't it be that they just police their own better? People generally are not doing any kind of hard time for petty offenses. These are drug dealers, rapists murderers and child molesters.

Do you honestly think that these crimes do not occur in other countries? We just catch them, other countries have these idiots running around free.

I come from a 3rd world country and we have nowhere near the crime levels that the USA has.

The USA is one of the few civilized countries that has gangs (on a level that the USA has). Sure there are "gangs" in other countries but in the USA they are real institutions. Crips/Bloods/Ms13 ect ect...just to put things in perspective there is not one single gang or "turf" in my shit hole 3rd world country you are free to walk wherever...sure there are drug dealers but they are like one or two man shows LOL...the very fact that the USA has "cripps" is a massive failure of your police...

There is a tour guide operator in my country that offers cruises to the carribean, one of the stops is in Miami. Now of all the 3rd world carribean countries the ship visits there is only one single warning for the tourists and that is for the first world USA! Its like WARNING: do not engage in confrontation or arguments with Americans, do not ring on their door or enter their garden, do not make sudden moves if approached by police ect ect...its surreal...its like visiting saudi arabia


to speak about the US army with most americans and their "peace efforts" is like discussing peace with Klingons... "What no war!?!?! But who will keep the mother land and commader in chief safe?" the propaganda and brain wash are strong in the USA

The USA is becoming a Klingon empire only fatter...

[Mutt]

break the law, go to prison. what's unreasonable about that? murder someone, lock them up and throw away the key.

unlike Canada where a piece of shit can murder your mother or rape your daughter and they're back on the street in 10 years, IF that!

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

I come from a 3rd world country and we have nowhere near the crime levels that the USA has.

which shithole is it that you're from and how much American financial aid has your country received?

[Va2k]

I could go on and on and on what is wrong with the us or whats wright but in the end there is nothing I can do about it. So I sit here and work my own hours and do as I'm told. sucks but it could be worse.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Mutt

which shithole is it that you're from and how much American financial aid has your country received?

sometimes your attitude makes me want to vomit..

and my "shithole" of a country - which is not far from his "shithole" of a country - has also simply a way lower crime rate than the US. And surely not because people just dont get arrested. And for sure not because of any money received.

[nico-t]

Prisons are a business.
Cheap labor, the real slaves of todays society.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

If Canada fell into total anarchy and you all killed yourself with poisoned ham you call bacon, and hockey sticks to the head? - would I write a detailed post about it like yours? Nope, because there's absolutely nothing I could of do/done about it. So why worry about it?

You Canadians puzzle me.

We don't understand a number of aspects about the US culture, yet it impacts us greatly. I think all canadians want nothing but good things for the states, yet many americans want to instantly dismiss any views from the outside.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by nico-t

Prisons are a business.
Cheap labor, the real slaves of todays society.

prisons should never be a for profit, privately run business. it just breeds corruption.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Mutt

break the law, go to prison. what's unreasonable about that?

Nothing, and no one is saying that. You and your straw men.

The issue is privatising the prisons, making them for profit, and then imprisoning people for things really not worthy of a custodial sentence.

Read the articles posted.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Harmon

So you claim that the US is creating prisoners? Couldn't it be that they just police their own better? People generally are not doing any kind of hard time for petty offenses. These are drug dealers, rapists murderers and child molesters.

Do you honestly think that these crimes do not occur in other countries? We just catch them, other countries have these idiots running around free.

I believe we have two police patrol cars here in an area of 60K people...hard to catch all the bad guys...

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

sometimes your attitude makes me want to vomit..

and my "shithole" of a country - which is not far from his "shithole" of a country - has also simply a way lower crime rate than the US. And surely not because people just dont get arrested. And for sure not because of any money received.

Same here, in the neighbourhood. But then I can't speak of freedom and real justice in my country at all. People go to jail for stupid things and the corruption is crazy. But it is still million times safer to walk in the town than in USA.

[bronco67]

If we invested more in education, then it would fix the over-populated prison problem -- but as one poster already mentioned, there's more money in the prison-industrial complex. They like the money they make from keeping people jailed.

If they stopped putting people in jail for drugs(usage, not large scale distribution) -- that would be a good start.

[Jet Set Cat]

Originally Posted by Harmon

So you claim that the US is creating prisoners? Couldn't it be that they just police their own better? People generally are not doing any kind of hard time for petty offenses. These are drug dealers, rapists murderers and child molesters.

Do you honestly think that these crimes do not occur in other countries? We just catch them, other countries have these idiots running around free.

You haven?t the slightest idea of what you?re talking about so why act like you do?

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Jet Set Cat

You haven?t the slightest idea of what you?re talking about so why act like you do?

Idiot.

[pornguy]

About 3 years ago my house was burglarized. The cops offered to send the crime scene guys but it was going to cost me 450$ USD for them to photograph and take prints.

I DONT live in the US any more.

Yes the legal system in the US is a bit on the fucked up side but for the most part they do catch the criminals better than most other countries.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by pornguy

About 3 years ago my house was burglarized. The cops offered to send the crime scene guys but it was going to cost me 450$ USD for them to photograph and take prints.

I DONT live in the US any more.

Yes the legal system in the US is a bit on the fucked up side but for the most part they do catch the criminals better than most other countries.

At least they offered to do that, even if for a price. Here in Canada you are lucky if they show up for any type of theft, unless you call 911 which forces them to show up. When they do, they seem to spend more time seeing if they can find something to charge you with, even though you've already been victimized.

Cop was trying desperately to charge me with improper weapon storage after he seen a butt of a gun in my closet after I had been robbed. (he lost his hard-on once he realized it was just the stock of the gun that had been removed)

[L-Pink]

One quick drive thru downtown Tampa and I can find a couple hundred more low life's that should be in jail. Where all these idiots come from and how they support themselves is beyond me.

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by inthecrack

Those American's who beat their chest and claim "greatest country in the world" should pipe down a little and have some humility until such time as America once again truly becomes the land of the free. If you can get over your enormous power trip, stop suing each other, separate church and state, and reform the prison system then we could possibly all agree, "greatest country in the world". Hell I'd even want to live there myself.

Americans (a lot of them) think they live in the best country on earth because it was told to them since they were born. They are forced in school every morning to sing a song and swear to their flag. What do you think what happens? Of course they will believe it if you repeat it enough. I'm not saying they live in a shitty country, but 300 million Americans saying that they live in the best country on earth doesn't mean that it is also the truth.

Sometimes it's starting to get annoying and disturbing. For example... When the president got re-elected he said in a speech: We will continue to let the world know that we live in the greatest country on earth... What does that mean? Is it similar to: Go to Angola as a white rich western guy; visit the refugee camps; park your $100.000 camper; go sit in front of the camper and pop a bottle of champagne and kaviar so they can watch you enjoy your lunch?

[dillonaire]

Mo money, mo problems. No one wants to steal shit in a 3rd world country because they dont have shit worth stealing and they cant afford drugs.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

Americans (a lot of them) think they live in the best country on earth because it was told to them since they were born. They are forced in school every morning to sing a song and swear to their flag. What do you think what happens? Of course they will believe it if you repeat it enough. I'm not saying they live in a shitty country, but 300 million Americans saying that they live in the best country on earth doesn't mean that it is also the truth.

Sometimes it's starting to get annoying and disturbing. For example... When the president got re-elected he said in a speech: We will continue to let the world know that we live in the greatest country on earth... What does that mean? Is it similar to: Go to Angola as a white rich western guy; visit the refugee camps; park your $100.000 camper; go sit in front of the camper and pop a bottle of champagne and kaviar so they can watch you enjoy your lunch?

[Best-In-BC]

Shit, sounds like your turning into my country slowly, pretty soon your fines will sky rocket to minimum wage paycheck sizes for speeding tickets and other minor crimes. My loved country is now a joke with regulations, extremly high taxes and large fines for minor, minor crimes.

The fucking boomer generation has done nothing but screwed us all!

[potter]

threads like this are so fucking stupid

[Rochard]

I think the problem is that the US is going to be best at catching criminals. Meaning, if you are driving down the street in the Philippines with no DL or no insurance, no one is going to know unless you get into an accident. Here in my hometown our police have scanners on the tops of their cars that read your license plate - They will know if you have no insurance or a suspended DL instantly so long as they end up behind you.

I have no issues with our legal system. The last time I went to court was years ago, for a speeding ticket - Exceeding 100mph. The lady in front of me had the same exact ticket (it was common in that area in the desert) and she put on a big show, crying, tossing her paperwork up on his desk, saying "I don't know why the police pulled me over". She lost her DL for six months and got a huge fine. I went up there right after her, in my suit and tie, "how do you plead sir?" and my reply was "guilty your honor". No bullshit, no tears, no drama, I go my 100mph (PLUS!) reduced to 70mph in a 65mph, a $120 fine, and one point on my DL.

Treat the system with respect and you'll be fine. Be a douchebag and the system will treat you as such.

In the mean time, my fucking neighbor is so fucking lazy that he's left his garbage can outside on the curb for the past week. So fucking annoying.

[alex.missyouth]

I agree with most of you, it has never actually been a free country.

This clip of Jello Biafra in Oprah says a lot and it's from the 80s.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Here in my hometown our police have scanners on the tops of their cars that read your license plate - They will know if you have no insurance or a suspended DL instantly so long as they end up behind you.

Land of the free? I think not... that's bullshit.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by BIGTYMER

I'll just leave this here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

yep That's one of the big problems when you have the private sector do it.There is a profit motive and not every thing should be profit based. I was reading somewhere in the middle west. States were bidding to have this private company take over its prisons. They had to be able to promise a 95 percent occupancy rate. Now guess how you do that?

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Have you ever been to the untied States or lived here? The reason our crime rate is so high is because we actually accurately record/report it. Second, our laws can be confusing because what's illegal in one state is legal in another. Meaning, I can walk down the street wearing a gun as it's totally legal, but in another State I would be arrested for felony, lose my right to vote, travel, and go to prison for years of my life. There are 100's of laws like this.

I've only been robbed once in my life or been in a dangerous situation. I ran a seafood company in LA that delivered to all areas that paid in cash. Anyway, after hiring a day laborer to help unload the fresh fish he held a knife to my throat to give up my bank deposit bag. After that he jumped out of the cab of the truck and got nailed by a taxi. I simply retrieved my bank bag then looked for a new beaner to help unload the last of the fresh fish before dark.

Never, the feeling that the customs may legally look into my ass at the airport makes me choose another destinations

I know there are different laws across the states but the fact that people are allowed to carry a gun in many of them is enough for me. I had a friend who spent 18 years in USA, NY. He told me, there were very dangerous areas and you could get shot down right on the street if getting into conflict with someone.

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I see several Americans here justifying awfulness with greatness. Whirlpool to the head.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Monotony

I see several Americans here justifying awfulness with greatness. Whirlpool to the head.

I see several not understanding that prisons are profit centres.

No one is saying that people that commit serious crimes shouldn't be locked up.

The problem is, for the third time, that when you privatise prisons, there is an incentive to lock people up, for anything.

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

I see several not understanding that prisons are profit centres.

No one is saying that people that commit serious crimes shouldn't be locked up.

The problem is, for the third time, that when you privatise prisons, there is an incentive to lock people up, for anything.

Literally and figuratively on the money.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by Harmon

that was truly amazing. I am glad I watched it

[JP-pornshooter]

well it is the land of the free and the brave.
i agree there is a prison problem and it goes deeper than that.
way too many young people, mostly in the urban areas (LA, Chicago, Detroit, NY ETC) are told from very young age that they will never become anything, their dad was a thug and thats all they know.
this issue combined with a very strong policing, meaning if you do the wrong thing you WILL get punished produce a lot of criminals.
i dont see a problem with running prisons for profit, why would it be different than healthcare.
for all i care, they can put the hard time criminals on the northpole.

[baddog]

So stay home.

[Elli]

I read this the other day and it just made me sick. Kids being arrested and sent to prison for school issues! Instead of suspending them or disciplining them as children, they're fed into the prison system for more profits! http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/24/ju...uit/index.html

[Heath]

I think its funny they fail to point out prisons actually end up costing most money then they bring in.

So for all that 'cheap labor'... It must not be cheap enough. But eh, who cares about pesky facts when trying to act like some thing is what it isn't..

People who actually live in the USA, can tell you first hand why there is so many people in prison... It's mainly because we have so many people here who THINK prison is a joke and don't care about going there because they get free health care, food, a roof over their heads, and they can STILL make money inside.

[JFK]

fitty ...........not so free lands

[V_RocKs]

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Mutt

which shithole is it that you're from and how much American financial aid has your country received?

serbia...as for financial "AID" we got 20+ years of crippling sanctions, 2 wars, lots of non stop bombing around the clock ect ect and we STILL have less crime than the USA will ever ever ever have....

barbarian, ethnic cleansing, butcher, crazy eyed serbs have a safe society than the USA...absolutely no gangs...none...street drug dealers? good luck with that....street prostitutes? a few...you will be lucky to find 2-3 total in the capital city walking the street...

not saying we have NO crime...but what goes on in the USA is seriously a joke...you are safer in the most ghetto part of ghetto serbia than any normal place in the USA...

not saying my county is special...just saying that yours is...