clickhappy

I'm trying to get a complicated app made and am running into dead ends because everyone wants way more $$ than I can afford.

A few weeks ago went to a lecture and the speaker was excellent. He was talking about business, design, and his mobile website. (I thought ) he said he has 80,000 users subscribe to his mobile site in the first week and its growing, he's looking to go to investors now.

I really liked his business smarts so I hit him up to talk business.
Later on he said he would help me do my app and I was excited because his suggestions and ideas were even better than mine.
So I agreed to meet with him and hire them to do it. It sounded like he was more helping me out than anything.

Then today I started digging, and they dont have an actual office space that's listed on the company website, its like a office rental place, where you can rent a conference room for like $45/hour.
And I joined his mobile site and it wasn't that great, AND it was dead. I didnt see no 80,000 users on it.
Also when I told him my small budget, he wanted a little bit more for them to start.

I don't know if he's legit or I'm being bamboozled. He does have a LinkedIn and Facebook account. I looked at his biz partner's accounts and they seem legit.

Im supposed to give him half the payment up front, then the other half when its completed.

So if I do decide to hire him what can I do to protect myself in case I dont like the final result, or it doesn't get done at all.

Also would you question him on the office address, # of users, etc? or let it go?

shake

Those who can't do, teach... stay away

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baddog

You google his name for reviews?

clickhappy

Thanks that's very true and makes sense

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Pay with a credit card, if things don't work out you can always issue a chargeback on the deposit.

That's what we tell all of our clients and to date we've only been fucked over by two, one in adult, one in mainstream.

Also, don't pay for everything upfront, typical development terms are either:

50% to begin & 50% on completion or;
33% to start, 33% mid-way through the project and 33% on completion.

Any design or development firm that asks you for payment in full I would honestly stay clear of, the risk just isn't worth it.

sarettah

First, as said above. Google them. Also ask them for a reference or two, if they are legit then they should be able to give you a ref. Also ask for other examples of their work. If they are legit they should have no problems with any of that.

Then, if you decide to go with them, pay 1/4 to get them started; 1/4 when they have a finished design and you have approved the wireframes,etc; 1/4 when they present working code for you and the final 1/4 when it goes live.

If you decide not to go with them well you already got some of his ideas so you are ahead of the game.

just my

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clickhappy

Yeah I googled him, nothing bad came up, but nothing much came up at all, a few accounts on social media sites.
I think he's legit just not super talented and a little too hungry-needy for me to feel confident in him to deliver what I need.

They're NOT a development firm, they have their own mobile company and touted their stats and I approached them asking if they would do something for me. Then later looked closer at their product and it isnt so great, so im getting cold feet.
But I dont want to miss out on a great opportunity if its there.

anyways im meeting him tomorrow at this rented co-worker space and Ill see whats up.
I wont bring a check with me.

clickhappy

Thats a great idea, will PayPal do that too?

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No.

With Paypal you have no protection as a buyer for services... Only physical products.

Bman

he says he has 80,000 members and he doesnt. he's lying then?what do you think the right answer is?

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Not necessarily...

He could have 80,000 installs of a specific app, from a marketing standpoint, I could see how an install could be construed (albeit wrongly) as a member to make the company look good.

Just because he has skewed his numbers, that does not automatically mean the guy is a scammer, if it did every GFY Millionaire should also be thought of to be a scammer, just like those who get millions of hits a day (even though they aren't talking about unique hits)

Bman

lol good luck

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clickhappy

ok im looking for a good escrow service online. One that protects me if the work isnt completed.
If he says no to that then I will walk

2MuchMark

Hi Clickhappy,

It doesn't really matter if he has a "real" office or not. Alot of programmers work from home. If he said he had a real office and it turned out to be a lie then of course stay away but otherwise I wouldn't use this as any reason to or not to do business with him.

Here's what you want to do.

First, ask him for samples of his work.

Next, ask him for some references that you can contact yourself and verify.

Next, establish a basic contract. It doesn't need to be too fancy. Just put in writing what you are expecting, when you are expecting it, and how much it will cost.

In that agreement, including a Payment schedule. A Payment schedule is just what it sounds like - a schedule of payments. If the project you are asking for takes 6 weeks to write, you pay may him 1/6th of the total per week for example.

The payment schedule should also include proof that the work is being done. For example, demo's, screenshots, code samples, etc. Demo's are the best because it lets you see that it is actually working and gives you and the programmer both a chance to come up with new ideas along the way.

This is the programmer's guarantee that he will be paid for the work he is doing.

In the agreement make it clear that if demos are not provided at each payment or milestone, that the payment will not be made. This is YOUR guarantee that the work is actually being done.

Keep everything as clear as possible. If you talk often by phone, follow up the phone call with an email to clarify things and ask for a reply to let you know he receive the email and agreed to your notes.

It's important that you establish a good working relationship and allow for some leeway. Programmers tend to under-estimate the time it takes to code things, and sometimes dependancies such as library or operating system upgrades throw a wrench into the works. Be prepared.

Pay by Paypal or Google Checkout. In the event that the programmer can't deliver, you can charge back your purchase but you may have to fight for it. The paperwork, screenshots and emails will help you to win your case.

Good luck!

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No, he can't.

Both Google Checkout & PayPal will not refund transactions for digital media or service based work, such as design or programming services, call them up and ask, there is absolutely NO buyer protection for that type of purchase.

bean-aid

Escrow. Release funds on milestones.

clickhappy

I appreciate that advice so much. I'm going to tell him i want to use an escrow service. i think thats smart. if someone says no to that then its fishy and ill walk.
Charging back on a large credit card transaction is iffy, the bank could reject it if i wanted a refund. I like escrow better, much cleaner.

sarettah

Why bother with escrow? Like I said earlier (and several people reinforced) set a payment schedule. If goals are not met you don't give them the money, that simple. If you do an escrow and release as you go then you tie your money up needlessly.

From a developer perspective, if you aren't willing to put some money up front then I am not willing to commit my time to you. Trust works both ways, ya know?


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bean-aid

Because a large scam is to take the first payment and run. Probably the biggest scam out there.

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Agreed.

If someone isn't serious enough to drop a 33-50% deposit on their project, then its not someone we want to work with.

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It also works on the client side of things too.

You wouldn't have a clue how many times we get clients trying to delay the final payment on their sites or programs because of 'cashflow issues' strange thing is, as soon as their website goes offline and they are presented with a 'please contact billing' message payment promptly arrives, almost as if their 'cashflow issues' never existed at all...

clickhappy

the initial payment is 4 figures. We're not talking about a $200 job here.

yup, happened to me before and I lost $400 from someone I met on a website. And the site owner was a jerk and told me he had no sympathy for me, and that I should have known and done "due diligence".
Never again, im so suspicious now on bigger jobs. Id rather lose out on a possible good job than lose a lot of money and get ripped off in case.

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Then email me over some specs and lets see what we can work out, I have several good mobile developers available to me for all types of OS. Hell, we'll even send you a NDA to sign first if you want for added security and a preview of our standard client contract.

Honestly, I don't blame you, we hear horror stories all the time of how clients drop thousands on deposits and the person they paid just *vanished*.

sarettah

I wasn't talking a $200 job either. Doesn't matter to me the size of the job. If you set a payment schedule that is based on milestones and you have the escrow set up to release on milestones, what is the difference other than without the escrow you keep your money in the bank.

If you are going to want someone dedicated to your project then there needs to be money up front (imho). If it is a big expensive project then you do less than a 1/4 down to get started. The developer still needs to be able to eat until the first milestone and if the only work he is doing is for you, well.

Anyway, all I was trying to convey was I don't see how the escrow helps you out if you are releasing at milestones anyway.

Hope your project turns out well

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clickhappy

I need something similar to Lyft (in the app store) but with different features.

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Shoot me an email contact @ pixelsquaredesigns.com

We actually had a client in NY a few months back ask us about a similar concept, specifically for a taxi service so we're kind of familiar with the features of this type of app, the pricing will be determined by what specific features you are going to need though, hence my offer to get a NDA across to you