Putin's letter to Americans, regarding Syria...

[BFT3K]

From the story...

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria?s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Continues here... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...yria.html?_r=0

[noshit]

The 'free' world looks to a Russian leader.. for freedom. Amazing turn of events.

For now; he's the thorn in the parasitical globalists side.

Great Post

[Si]

Originally Posted by noshit

The 'free' world looks to a Russian leader.. for freedom. Amazing turn of events.

For now; he's the thorn in the parasitical globalists side.

Great Post

Sure, who wouldn't want to live in Russia these days?

Apart from sane people, obviously.

[noshit]

Originally Posted by Si

Sure, who wouldn't want to live in Russia these days?

Apart from sane people, obviously.

Is that what the post was about; living in Russia?
I don't know, you probably have your own reasons to live there.

[Phoenix]

There was an awesome picture i had last night.
Picture was of Putin.
Caption was.
Who would have thought. An ex KGB thug would be stopping a nobel peace prize winner from starting world war 3.

Something like that...wish i had it to post now.

[baddog]

Unusual to hear Russian presidents talking about God.

[_Richard_]

they're pulling outta the UN if the US strikes? that's.. awesome.

[deltav]

Really too bad President-for-life Putin isn't as respectful of the judicial process & ideals of law in his own country as he "claims" to be toward international law.

Really, it just cracks me up when some of guys write stuff like "Sure, who wouldn't want to live in Russia these days? Apart from sane people, obviously." You can't make this shit up. Seriously, move to Russia, see how ya like it, & get back to us in a couple years.

[deltav]

Oh wait, nevermind - you weren't actually condoning everyone live in Russia, I misread that due to all the Putin love around here lately. My bad.

[sambucas]

I have always been fascinated with some American's ability to judge Russia, Putin and specifically level of freedom of speech and law in Russia without knowing a word in Russian.

As a Russian who doesn't understand a word of French, I also like to judge French literature of 17th century based on what English language press says about it.

[deltav]

You'll get no argument from me that knowing the language helps understanding the nuances of a culture, but it's kind of a stretch to say non-speakers can't comment or be informed on general states of affairs in Russia, China, USA, Mexico, Djibouti, or wherever. I'm not remotely anti-Russian by any measure either - I think it's a fascinating place, have friends who've lived there for years and hope to visit myself sometime soon.

But there are myriad criticisms & controversies surrounding Putin and his governance as a matter of public & international record. IMO he's obviously an effective leader for Russia in many ways, but guys like WHP claiming he's the last bastion of freedom holding firm against the forces of "corruption" (his words, not mine), well it's kinda silly looking at Putin's history.

[sambucas]

Originally Posted by deltav

well it's kinda silly looking at Putin's history.

What history exactly?

[nico-t]

american government has been poking syria with a stick constantly. Once they gave a peep, its an instant argument to attack.

It's like you're in the dog pound, constantly poking a stick at a stray dog. Once he snaps at you, you say to everybody in the room 'this dog is a threat' and kill the stray dog with 10 people.

[Mutt]

Disingenuous prattle. Obama's naivete is frightening and Putin has made the most of it.

Every word of that was written with a smirk, especially where he invokes 'the Lord'.

[seeandsee]

tell them putin

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by baddog

Unusual to hear Russian presidents talking about God.

Are you crazy? These mofos are talking about god all the time. They are building new churches everyday. The religious fanatics are everywhere. Normal people here are really tired of all that shit.

[ZiggiZiggiCrew]

Putin is self god

[JFK]

As much as I dont care for Russian politics, he seems to be one of the few, sane, high profile world level leaders, who is publicly outspoken against this totally retarded US action

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

ADG

[DWB]

Putin 2016

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by JFK

As much as I dont care for Russian politics, he seems to be one of the few, sane, high profile world level leaders, who is publicly outspoken against this totally retarded US action

bingo for sure...

[Jman]

"My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States? policy is ?what makes America different. It?s what makes us exceptional.? It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord?s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal."

BINGO!!!!

[ZiggiZiggiCrew]

Originally Posted by DWB

Putin 2016

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by baddog

Unusual to hear Russian presidents talking about God.

Russians are very religious. The Orthodox church is huge there.

It was the Soviet Union that pretty much banned religion with communism. Probably one of the BEST things about Communism.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by sambucas

What history exactly?

why all the KGB stuffz he did.. scary stuff!

then you get into all the 'locking up the opposition' and 'poisioning and jailing ukrainian leaders' etc etc

i am just filling the silence however, i have read on the reasons of the above

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

why all the KGB stuffz he did.. scary stuff!

then you get into all the 'locking up the opposition' and 'poisioning and jailing ukrainian leaders' etc etc

i am just filling the silence however, i have read on the reasons of the above

Funny how people change.

Putin did all that in his past and now he is saving lives and stopping the U.S. from killing people with bombs.

And Obama was a total anti-war guy until he became President and suddenly had power. Now he's become one of the most lethal President's of all times, killing people daily with drone strikes and quick to pull the trigger with the military too.

Having power certainly changed both of these men.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Russians are very religious. The Orthodox church is huge there.

It was the Soviet Union that pretty much banned religion with communism. Probably one of the BEST things about Communism.

Actually Russians were not religions during the USSR times and I very appreciate everything that commies did against the religion. Unfortunately, the new government (Putin and his gang) are trying to make us (again) to think that we all believe in god. This drives me nuts. I sincerely think that religion is one of the worst things in the post-USSR era that happened to my country

[dyna mo]

if i were putin and kerry/obama fumbled the ball right at my feet, i too would pick it up and run with it.

he's an opportunist seizing an opportunity given him by a very naive president and crew who are playing way outside their skill level.


obama's latest gaffe: "the u.s. military doesn't do pinpricks."

wtf is that shit.

enough with the fucking school yard threats dumbass. did'nt/couldn't even learn his lesson after the red line gaffe.

fuck that guy.

[wehateporn]

The military-industrial complex must be fuming, they are desperate for an excuse to harvest the US tax-pot, now maybe Big Pharma will do a fake pandemic instead and get their first

[Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Canadians and Mexicans are real tired of being held hostage.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Funny how people change.

Putin did all that in his past and now he is saving lives and stopping the U.S. from killing people with bombs.

And Obama was a total anti-war guy until he became President and suddenly had power. Now he's become one of the most lethal President's of all times, killing people daily with drone strikes and quick to pull the trigger with the military too.

Having power certainly changed both of these men.

Putin is NO Saint, and is being opportunistic in this case. However, what ever his reasoning, or motivation, I think he's on the money with this one.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by JFK

Putin is NO Saint, and is being opportunistic in this case. However, what ever his reasoning, or motivation, I think he's on the money with this one.

I agree...bottom line is he's still just another crooked politician. Only he's in Russia.

Every country on Earth has (and always has had) a "ruling class" that help themselves to the country and power. And they love to do it under the guise of "helping".

But yeah...Obama is fucking floundering and Putin just grabbed the easy low-hanging fruit.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by deltav

Really too bad President-for-life Putin isn't as respectful of the judicial process & ideals of law in his own country as he "claims" to be toward international law.

That's what I was thinking....

[deltav]

Originally Posted by sambucas

What history exactly?

Really?

How about:
-KGB career in both East Germany & USSR
-suppression & jailing of numerous opposition figures on trumped up "corruption" and other charges
-suppression of dissents & criticism in print media, tv, and other journalism (argue all you want about Russia having a free press, this is not remotely the case) plus supression of activist opposition groups & other segments of civil society. You can find multiple reports on this by Amnesty International, HRW, etc.
-completing the near-total destruction of Grozny
-fucking with former Soviet republics like Ukraine (poisoning Yuschenko) or Georgia (did they get UN approval for invading them in 2008? course not)
-the ridiculous Pussy Riot jailing (just one of the more sensationalist anti-dissident events recently), the regressive "homosexual propaganda" law, etc.

I could go on. Again, I don't think Putin's really much worse than any other bitch-ass world leader, but the idea that some are promoting (including himself) that he's a champion of international law & fairness is laughable. He's an opportunist, nothing more.

And in Syria Russia is not a "neutral party" by any stretch. They've happily supplied Assad with large quantities of weapons and continue to do so, they've blocked UN motions for humanitarian access & facilitating aid deliveries to civilians, the list goes on.

Here are a couple write-ups detailing Russian positions and actions in Syria that indicate Putin isn't acting from any high-minded notion of international law - it's just in his self-interest.

One is published by the Finnish Institute of International Affairs (http://www.fiia.fi/en/publication/34.../#.UjITHT885TQ - link to the PDF there, which mentions the vetos of various UNSC resolutions and is a decent snapshot of their strategic position), the other by the program director at Human Rights Watch (http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/06/19/w...ia-doublespeak)

Again, for the record I'm totally against any US/Western strike in Syria. Just find this new "Putin is a great guy!" meme to be kinda ridiculous.

[pimpmaster9000]

its scary to see the double standard in the world...

putin did this and that bla bla while the same fucking thing is being done in guantanamo bay

the USA has dropped more bombs than hitler since WW2 but putin is evil

putin calls for peace a no more bloodshed, the USA calls for more export of bombs, but its his KGB past that is the deciding factor if syria will be bombed or not?

but the scariest thing of all is to see how some americans have no problem at all with their country invading others...they actually call for more bombing and bloodshed...a complete lack of empathy and respect for non US human life..."terrorists" are out to get the USA and what ever it costs the rest of the world, US paranoia must be calmed at all cost!

the USA actually invades on a regular basis and the world has actually stopped caring...it has become "standard procedure"...entire countries, millions upon millions of people, forced in to war because a few honest US politicians said so...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

its scary to see the double standard in the world...

putin did this and that bla bla while the same fucking thing is being done in guantanamo bay

the USA has dropped more bombs than hitler since WW2 but putin is evil

putin calls for peace a no more bloodshed, the USA calls for more export of bombs, but its his KGB past that is the deciding factor if syria will be bombed or not?

but the scariest thing of all is to see how some americans have no problem at all with their country invading others...they actually call for more bombing and bloodshed...a complete lack of empathy and respect for non US human life..."terrorists" are out to get the USA and what ever it costs the rest of the world, US paranoia must be calmed at all cost!

the USA actually invades on a regular basis and the world has actually stopped caring...it has become "standard procedure"...entire countries, millions upon millions of people, forced in to war because a few honest US politicians said so...

knock it off.

[sambucas]

Originally Posted by deltav

Really?

How about:
-KGB career in both East Germany & USSR
-suppression & jailing of numerous opposition figures on trumped up "corruption" and other charges
-suppression of dissents & criticism in print media, tv, and other journalism (argue all you want about Russia having a free press, this is not remotely the case) plus supression of activist opposition groups & other segments of civil society. You can find multiple reports on this by Amnesty International, HRW, etc.
-completing the near-total destruction of Grozny
-fucking with former Soviet republics like Ukraine (poisoning Yuschenko) or Georgia (did they get UN approval for invading them in 2008? course not)
-the ridiculous Pussy Riot jailing (just one of the more sensationalist anti-dissident events recently), the regressive "homosexual propaganda" law, etc.

This is exactly why I don't think that people who don't understand Russian should judge processes in Russia. The information that you are getting from English language press is plain wrong.

- As a person who grew up in Soviet Union I don't see anything wrong with KGB who were trying to protect our country from your government overthrowing our government, nuking us and so on. So this, "Oh come on he's KGB!!" doesn't work on me.

There rest of your points are plain wrong. You don't have any proof only opinionated articles written in press that's owned by the people who also own the big corporations that were squeezed by Putin out of getting free oil in Russia in 2004. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

I'm just curious don't you think it's ridiculous how someone who doesn't understand Russian is trying to explain to me, who's first language is Russian that there is no freedom of speech in Russia?

[dyna mo]

putin's been in power positions since perestroika right?

if he's not cashing in on that shit, i'd be very surprised.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by sambucas

This is exactly why I don't think that people who don't understand Russian should judge processes in Russia. The information that you are getting from English language press is plain wrong.

- As a person who grew up in Soviet Union I don't see anything wrong with KGB who were trying to protect our country from your government overthrowing our government, nuking us and so on. So this, "Oh come on he's KGB!!" doesn't work on me.

There rest of your points are plain wrong. You don't have any proof only opinionated articles written in press that's owned by the people who also own the big corporations that were squeezed by Putin out of getting free oil in Russia in 2004. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

I'm just curious don't you think it's ridiculous how someone who doesn't understand Russian is trying to explain to me, who's first language is Russian that there is no freedom of speech in Russia?

Look man, of course I figured you'd respond exactly as above. I'm sure we could get into it in further detail, but let's just agree to disagree. In fact since I don't speak the Russian language, by your logic how about I just concede to ya:

The Russian print/TV/etc media operate under all principles of free speech with no government pressure or civil persecution. Ditto far as Putin's political opposition goes. Every single one of the individuals & groups who've been persecuted are really just the corrupt bad guys.

The KGB was solely dedicated to defending against the US and external threats, and did not in fact persecute & crush any perceived internal opposition by its own (and Warsaw Pact) citizens, usually extra-judicially.

Putin is an exemplary defender of international law and is operating in Syria under noble intentions rather than geopolitical self-interest.

Etc. Happy?

[Seth Manson]

I dont care who or what the reason is for not attacking them. I just care that it doesnt happen. If Russia wants to handle it, let them handle it.

[sambucas]

Originally Posted by deltav

Look man, of course I figured you'd respond exactly as above. I'm sure we could get into it in further detail, but let's just agree to disagree. In fact since I don't speak the Russian language, by your logic how about I just concede to ya:

The Russian print/TV/etc media operate under all principles of free speech with no government pressure or civil persecution. Ditto far as Putin's political opposition goes. Every single one of the individuals & groups who've been persecuted are really just the corrupt bad guys.

Putin is an exemplary defender of international law and is operating in Syria under noble intentions rather than geopolitical self-interest.

Etc. Happy?

"All you always need to hear is both sides of the story" - Phil Collins.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by sambucas

"All you always need to hear is both sides of the story" - Phil Collins.

Like I said, I'm not even demonizing the dude. Just not glorifying him either. You're proud of your country and your leader, I get it.

I think we both agree that military intervention in Syria is a bad thing. The question is where to go from here.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by sambucas

"All you always need to hear is both sides of the story" - Phil Collins.

"Wouldn't you agree, baby you and me, we've got a groovy kind of love." - Phil Collins

[dillonaire]

Hoping our world leaders take all of this Syriasly. We don't wanna go Russian into anything.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by deltav

....Georgia (did they get UN approval for invading them in 2008? course not)....

You are aware that no one need PERMISSION from the UN to invade or attack anyone, right? Western countries do this so they feel they have proper justification, mostly to satisfy people back home... But there is no international law that the UN has to "give permission".

[deltav]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You are aware that no one need PERMISSION from the UN to invade or attack anyone, right? Western countries do this so they feel they have proper justification, mostly to satisfy people back home... But there is no international law that the UN has to "give permission".

Yup, I'm aware. Again was just contrasting this with Putin's sudden championing of international law when it comes to attacking other countries.

[bronco67]

Does anything Putin laid out in that letter apply in Russia?

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You are aware that no one need PERMISSION from the UN to invade or attack anyone, right? Western countries do this so they feel they have proper justification, mostly to satisfy people back home... But there is no international law that the UN has to "give permission".

yes, there is.

if there is not, why do you pay so much money to them every year?

why do we have an international court, nato etc?

Same line of 'attacking without congressional approval'. it's illegal.

Originally Posted by deltav

Yup, I'm aware. Again was just contrasting this with Putin's sudden championing of international law when it comes to attacking other countries.

and i believe you referenced Georgia.

do you have any idea on how all that started?

[Minte]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

its scary to see the double standard in the world...

putin did this and that bla bla while the same fucking thing is being done in guantanamo bay

the USA has dropped more bombs than hitler since WW2 but putin is evil

putin calls for peace a no more bloodshed, the USA calls for more export of bombs, but its his KGB past that is the deciding factor if syria will be bombed or not?

but the scariest thing of all is to see how some americans have no problem at all with their country invading others...they actually call for more bombing and bloodshed...a complete lack of empathy and respect for non US human life..."terrorists" are out to get the USA and what ever it costs the rest of the world, US paranoia must be calmed at all cost!

the USA actually invades on a regular basis and the world has actually stopped caring...it has become "standard procedure"...entire countries, millions upon millions of people, forced in to war because a few honest US politicians said so...

Be careful,you might be next, Obama has the bloodlust going on now. He doesn't take kindly to mouthy commies.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

and i believe you referenced Georgia.

do you have any idea on how all that started?

I do. I have a Georgian friend and a Russian friend and they disagreed on the subject to say the least. What I gathered myself is that the situation in South Ossetia is a complicated mess.

But that's another subject entirely (with many viewpoints), my only point was to point out an example of Putin's Russia not waiting for international mediation on a full-scale military incursion into a neighboring country, occupying cities & whatnot.