Red states get pressure from Obamacare to expand medicaid

[blackmonsters]

Forbes is showing reports that states that expanded medicaid under Obamacare are seeing increases in jobs and federal money.

Some states that expanded medicaid have seen up to 54% decline in uninsured patients.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejap...rtner=yahootix

[crockett]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Forbes is showing reports that states that expanded medicaid under Obamacare are seeing increases in jobs and federal money.

Some states that expanded medicaid have seen up to 54% decline in uninsured patients.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejap...rtner=yahootix

Blaming Obama for Benghazi has fallen apart for the Republicans... Bitching and moaning about Obamacare being the end of the world has fallen apart for the Republicans.. Obama never took their guns despite all the hoopla and mad rushes to the gun stores..

All they have left is, IRS conspiracies, denying Global Warming and bitching about immigration.. or they could just shut the fuck up and do their jobs.. Ok, that will never happen..

Did I miss any other right wing conspiracy theories?

[Robbie]

I just read that.

I didn't see where any states that have expanded medicaid have seen any increase in jobs.

And it's not just "red" states (that label is so ridiculous and keeps the country divided against itself).
The problem with the Affordable Health Care Act putting all these new people on Medicaid is that the Federal Govt. WILL pay for it...for 2 years (meaning our federal income tax money being spent...didn't the Pres. promise it wouldn't cost the govt. "one thin dime"?)

But after 2016, guess what? The STATES have to pay for it.

And a lot of governors are asking how the hell they are going to do that when they are already close to bankruptcy (and most of them have to run a balanced budget by LAW).

And I'll tell you how they are going to do it...states are going to have to raise state taxes even more.

So now...we are all forced to pay the "tax" (as the Supreme Court ruled it was to make it constitutional) of ObamaCare.
Then, they are taking our income tax and paying for the states to take a huge influx of Medicaid.
Then, in 2 years...states will have to find a LOT more revenue (more taxes) to pay for it.
On top of that the "Medical Device Tax"

I hate taxes. Especially when people are struggling to get by already:

• Individual Mandate (new tax): Americans who can afford to must obtain minimum essential health coverage for 2014, get an exemption or pay a per month fee.

•Employer Mandate (new tax): Come 2015 large employers must insure full time employees or pay a per employee fee. Over half of Americans get their insurance through work and the largest group of uninsured is currently the working poor.


• 2.3% Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers 2014

• 10% Tax on Indoor Tanning Services 2014

• Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike

• Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals which fail to comply with the requirements of ObamaCare

• Tax on Brand Name Drugs

• Tax on Health Insurers

• $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives

• Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D

• Employer Mandate on business with over 50 full-time equivalent employees to provide health insurance to full-time employees. $2000 per employee $3000 if employee uses tax credits to buy insurance on the exchange (marketplace). (pushed back to 2015)

• Medicare Tax on Investment Income 3.8% over $200k/$250k

• Medicare Part A Tax increase of .9% over $200k/$250k

• Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (not a tax)

• Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (repealed)

• Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (not a tax)

ObamaCare Taxes That (may) Directly Affect the Average American

• 40% Excise Tax "Cadillac" on high-end Premium Health Insurance Plans 2018

• An annual $63 fee levied by ObamaCare on all plans (decreased each year until 2017 when pre-existing conditions are eliminated) to help pay for insurance companies covering the costs of high-risk pools.

• Medicine Cabinet Tax
Over the counter medicines no longer qualified as medical expenses for flexible spending accounts (FSAs), health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs), health savings accounts (HSAs), and Archer Medical Saving accounts (MSAs).

• Additional Tax on HSA/MSA Distributions
Health savings account or an Archer medical savings account, penalties for spending money on non-qualified medical expenses. 10% to 20% in the case of a HSA and from 15% to 20% in the case of a MSA.

• Flexible Spending Account Cap 2013
Contributions to FSAs are reduced to $2,500 from $5,000.

• Medical Deduction Threshold tax increase 2013
Threshold to deduct medical expenses as an itemized deduction increases to 10% from 7.5%.

• Individual Mandate (the tax for not purchasing insurance if you can afford it) 2014
Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income tax surtax at a rate of 1% or $95 in 2014 to 2.5% in 2016 on profitable income above the tax threshold. The total penalty amount cannot exceed the national average of the annual premiums of a "bronze level" health insurance plan on ObamaCare exchanges.

That's an awful lot of money being taken from us.

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I just read that.

I didn't see where any states that have expanded medicaid have seen any increase in jobs.

And it's not just "red" states (that label is so ridiculous and keeps the country divided against itself).
The problem with the Affordable Health Care Act putting all these new people on Medicaid is that the Federal Govt. WILL pay for it...for 2 years (meaning our federal income tax money being spent...didn't the Pres. promise it wouldn't cost the govt. "one thin dime"?)

But after 2016, guess what? The STATES have to pay for it.

And a lot of governors are asking how the hell they are going to do that when they are already close to bankruptcy (and most of them have to run a balanced budget by LAW).

And I'll tell you how they are going to do it...states are going to have to raise state taxes even more.

So now...we are all forced to pay the "tax" (as the Supreme Court ruled it was to make it constitutional) of ObamaCare.
Then, they are taking our income tax and paying for the states to take a huge influx of Medicaid.
Then, in 2 years...states will have to find a LOT more revenue (more taxes) to pay for it.
On top of that the "Medical Device Tax"

I hate taxes. Especially when people are struggling to get by already:

? Individual Mandate (new tax): Americans who can afford to must obtain minimum essential health coverage for 2014, get an exemption or pay a per month fee.

?Employer Mandate (new tax): Come 2015 large employers must insure full time employees or pay a per employee fee. Over half of Americans get their insurance through work and the largest group of uninsured is currently the working poor.


? 2.3% Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers 2014

? 10% Tax on Indoor Tanning Services 2014

? Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike

? Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals which fail to comply with the requirements of ObamaCare

? Tax on Brand Name Drugs

? Tax on Health Insurers

? $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives

? Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D

? Employer Mandate on business with over 50 full-time equivalent employees to provide health insurance to full-time employees. $2000 per employee $3000 if employee uses tax credits to buy insurance on the exchange (marketplace). (pushed back to 2015)

? Medicare Tax on Investment Income 3.8% over $200k/$250k

? Medicare Part A Tax increase of .9% over $200k/$250k

? Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (not a tax)

? Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (repealed)

? Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (not a tax)

ObamaCare Taxes That (may) Directly Affect the Average American

? 40% Excise Tax "Cadillac" on high-end Premium Health Insurance Plans 2018

? An annual $63 fee levied by ObamaCare on all plans (decreased each year until 2017 when pre-existing conditions are eliminated) to help pay for insurance companies covering the costs of high-risk pools.

? Medicine Cabinet Tax
Over the counter medicines no longer qualified as medical expenses for flexible spending accounts (FSAs), health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs), health savings accounts (HSAs), and Archer Medical Saving accounts (MSAs).

? Additional Tax on HSA/MSA Distributions
Health savings account or an Archer medical savings account, penalties for spending money on non-qualified medical expenses. 10% to 20% in the case of a HSA and from 15% to 20% in the case of a MSA.

? Flexible Spending Account Cap 2013
Contributions to FSAs are reduced to $2,500 from $5,000.

? Medical Deduction Threshold tax increase 2013
Threshold to deduct medical expenses as an itemized deduction increases to 10% from 7.5%.

? Individual Mandate (the tax for not purchasing insurance if you can afford it) 2014
Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income tax surtax at a rate of 1% or $95 in 2014 to 2.5% in 2016 on profitable income above the tax threshold. The total penalty amount cannot exceed the national average of the annual premiums of a "bronze level" health insurance plan on ObamaCare exchanges.

That's an awful lot of money being taken from us.

Fed gov still will pas 90% of the expansion costs after the 100% expires
I'd bet healthier people will costs less then the remaining 10%. These are the people that don't even make enough to qualify for obamacare

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by arock10

Fed gov still will pas 90% of the expansion costs after the 100% expires
I'd bet healthier people will costs less then the remaining 10%. These are the people that don't even make enough to qualify for obamacare

So the states will still have to pick up a much larger burden with so many people on medicaid right?

Also...when you say healthier people cost less...to whom? Yeah, it is always cheaper for me if I stay healthy. Which is why I go to the gym every week and why I try not to eat too much unhealthy food.

Notice the "I" and "me" because I am responsible for myself. Just as everyone should be.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I just read that.

I didn't see where any states that have expanded medicaid have seen any increase in jobs.

And it's not just "red" states (that label is so ridiculous and keeps the country divided against itself).
The problem with the Affordable Health Care Act putting all these new people on Medicaid is that the Federal Govt. WILL pay for it...for 2 years (meaning our federal income tax money being spent...didn't the Pres. promise it wouldn't cost the govt. "one thin dime"?)

But after 2016, guess what? The STATES have to pay for it.

And a lot of governors are asking how the hell they are going to do that when they are already close to bankruptcy (and most of them have to run a balanced budget by LAW).

And I'll tell you how they are going to do it...states are going to have to raise state taxes even more.

So now...we are all forced to pay the "tax" (as the Supreme Court ruled it was to make it constitutional) of ObamaCare.
Then, they are taking our income tax and paying for the states to take a huge influx of Medicaid.
Then, in 2 years...states will have to find a LOT more revenue (more taxes) to pay for it.
On top of that the "Medical Device Tax"

I hate taxes. Especially when people are struggling to get by already:

? Individual Mandate (new tax): Americans who can afford to must obtain minimum essential health coverage for 2014, get an exemption or pay a per month fee.

?Employer Mandate (new tax): Come 2015 large employers must insure full time employees or pay a per employee fee. Over half of Americans get their insurance through work and the largest group of uninsured is currently the working poor.


? 2.3% Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers 2014

? 10% Tax on Indoor Tanning Services 2014

? Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike

? Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals which fail to comply with the requirements of ObamaCare

? Tax on Brand Name Drugs

? Tax on Health Insurers

? $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives

? Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D

? Employer Mandate on business with over 50 full-time equivalent employees to provide health insurance to full-time employees. $2000 per employee $3000 if employee uses tax credits to buy insurance on the exchange (marketplace). (pushed back to 2015)

? Medicare Tax on Investment Income 3.8% over $200k/$250k

? Medicare Part A Tax increase of .9% over $200k/$250k

? Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (not a tax)

? Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (repealed)

? Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (not a tax)

ObamaCare Taxes That (may) Directly Affect the Average American

? 40% Excise Tax "Cadillac" on high-end Premium Health Insurance Plans 2018

? An annual $63 fee levied by ObamaCare on all plans (decreased each year until 2017 when pre-existing conditions are eliminated) to help pay for insurance companies covering the costs of high-risk pools.

? Medicine Cabinet Tax
Over the counter medicines no longer qualified as medical expenses for flexible spending accounts (FSAs), health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs), health savings accounts (HSAs), and Archer Medical Saving accounts (MSAs).

? Additional Tax on HSA/MSA Distributions
Health savings account or an Archer medical savings account, penalties for spending money on non-qualified medical expenses. 10% to 20% in the case of a HSA and from 15% to 20% in the case of a MSA.

? Flexible Spending Account Cap 2013
Contributions to FSAs are reduced to $2,500 from $5,000.

? Medical Deduction Threshold tax increase 2013
Threshold to deduct medical expenses as an itemized deduction increases to 10% from 7.5%.

? Individual Mandate (the tax for not purchasing insurance if you can afford it) 2014
Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income tax surtax at a rate of 1% or $95 in 2014 to 2.5% in 2016 on profitable income above the tax threshold. The total penalty amount cannot exceed the national average of the annual premiums of a "bronze level" health insurance plan on ObamaCare exchanges.

That's an awful lot of money being taken from us.

The sad part is that you believe the bullshit Fox news tells you.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

The sad part is that you believe the bullshit Fox news tells you.

That's not from Fox News.

The real "sad shit" is that you (like most fake-liberals) think you are smarter than other people. You're not.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Forbes is showing reports that states that expanded medicaid under Obamacare are seeing increases in jobs and federal money.

Some states that expanded medicaid have seen up to 54% decline in uninsured patients.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejap...rtner=yahootix

They're trying to make a spiteful political point at the expense of their citizens.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Robbie

And a lot of governors are asking how the hell they are going to do that when they are already close to bankruptcy (and most of them have to run a balanced budget by LAW).

.

How are they going to lower taxes for rich people when they have to pay for something everyone else might need?

have you seen the "experiments" a couple of governors have done by cutting taxes down to almost nothing? Those states are almost bankrupt.

http://www.news-leader.com/story/new...ches/13843145/

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by bronco67

How are they going to lower taxes for rich people when they have to pay for something everyone else might need?

have you seen the "experiments" a couple of governors have done by cutting taxes down to almost nothing? Those states are almost bankrupt.

http://www.news-leader.com/story/new...ches/13843145/

The experiment of raising taxes has worked very well hasn't it?
Ask California or New York or Illinois. These states have been bankrupt or near bankrupt for years yet I don't see you up on your high horse about these states, why not?

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by Dvae

The experiment of raising taxes has worked very well hasn't it?
Ask California or New York or Illinois. These states have been bankrupt or near bankrupt for years yet I don't see you up on your high horse about these states, why not?

Dire predictions about jobs being destroyed spread across California in 2012 as voters debated whether to enact the sales and, for those near the top of the income ladder, stiff income tax increases in Proposition 30. Million-dollar-plus earners face a 3 percentage-point increase on each additional dollar.

?It hurts small business and kills jobs,? warned the Sacramento Taxpayers Association, the National Federation of Independent Business/California, and Joel Fox, president of the Small Business Action Committee.

So what happened after voters approved the tax increases, which took effect at the start of 2013?

Last year California added 410,418 jobs, an increase of 2.8 percent over 2012, significantly better than the 1.8 percent national increase in jobs.

California is home to 12 percent of Americans, but last year it accounted for 17.5 percent of new jobs, Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows.

America has more than 3,100 counties and what demographers call county equivalents. Eleven California counties, including Sacramento, accounted for almost 1 in every 7 new jobs in the U.S. last year.


http://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/20/656...edictions.html

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Dire predictions about jobs being destroyed spread across California in 2012 as voters debated whether to enact the sales and, for those near the top of the income ladder, stiff income tax increases in Proposition 30. Million-dollar-plus earners face a 3 percentage-point increase on each additional dollar.

“It hurts small business and kills jobs,” warned the Sacramento Taxpayers Association, the National Federation of Independent Business/California, and Joel Fox, president of the Small Business Action Committee.

So what happened after voters approved the tax increases, which took effect at the start of 2013?

Last year California added 410,418 jobs, an increase of 2.8 percent over 2012, significantly better than the 1.8 percent national increase in jobs.

California is home to 12 percent of Americans, but last year it accounted for 17.5 percent of new jobs, Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows.

America has more than 3,100 counties and what demographers call county equivalents. Eleven California counties, including Sacramento, accounted for almost 1 in every 7 new jobs in the U.S. last year.


http://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/20/656...edictions.html

I had a feeling what Dvae said was BS.

It's a knowable fact that Reagonomics, and trickle down economics -- which are the bread and butter of the conservative mindset -- have never worked. Never. Yet they double down on the philosophy over and over. They double down on every bad idea they come up. Look at immigration...you'd think that with their Latino voting numbers, they'd find a way to accommodate immigrants, but they've taken the opposite, xenophobic approach. They're on the wrong side of history with everything.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by bronco67

I had a feeling what Dvae said was BS.

It's a knowable fact that Reagonomics, and trickle down economics -- which are the bread and butter of the conservative mindset -- have never worked. Never. Yet they double down on the philosophy over and over. They double down on every bad idea they come up. Look at immigration...you'd think that with their Latino voting numbers, they'd find a way to accommodate immigrants, but they've taken the opposite, xenophobic approach. They're on the wrong side of history with everything.

you're forgetting older names of 'supply side economics' and 'horse and sparrow' economics.

i stopped looking around the 1890 era.........

[GregE]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So the states will still have to pick up a much larger burden with so many people on medicaid right?

Also...when you say healthier people cost less...to whom? Yeah, it is always cheaper for me if I stay healthy. Which is why I go to the gym every week and why I try not to eat too much unhealthy food.

Notice the "I" and "me" because I am responsible for myself. Just as everyone should be.

This might come as something of a revelation, but people with healthy lifestyles sometimes get sick too.

Moreover, when they're precluded from healthcare access early on they end up costing somebody (i.e. the taxpayers) a hell of a lot more when they're dragged half dead into the ER.

It's like they say in that old Midas commercial, you can pay now or you can pay later.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crockett

Blaming Obama for Benghazi has fallen apart for the Republicans... Bitching and moaning about Obamacare being the end of the world has fallen apart for the Republicans.. Obama never took their guns despite all the hoopla and mad rushes to the gun stores..

All they have left is, IRS conspiracies, denying Global Warming and bitching about immigration.. or they could just shut the fuck up and do their jobs.. Ok, that will never happen..

Did I miss any other right wing conspiracy theories?

While Obama has a low approval rating, I don't see how the Republicans have a leg to stand on. Everything the Republicans complain about seems to be a non issue - Benghazi, IRS, Obamacare.... And in the mean time the economy is doing great.

The one thing I am questioning is Obama's decision to get us out of Iraq. I supported this at the time - We cannot remain in Iraq until the end of time and at a certain point they need to stand on their own two feet - but now it seems like the entire country is going to be over run by a terrorist group that makes Al-Qaeda look like kittens.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by crockett

Blaming Obama for Benghazi has fallen apart for the Republicans...

Again? In every post? My God give it a rest.

[Vendzilla]

Here's my question, if Obamacare is suppose to save all of us money, including the government, where does this 420 billion in federal money come from?

If there is a big push to get more if not all states to sign up for that money, that will negate the law suit against Obama, correct? Is that more money and issue is being played out because of the law suit?

I like what Obama is doing with Iraq, just bomb them, don't send in ground troops , send in care where needed. No more war!

Benghazi, tired of it, plain and simple, we were lied to because of his re election
IRS, Lois Lerner needs to be convicted for what she did, unless she takes the stand and names names, did you hear about the emails they did get back?
Obamacare, I still think it's a hot sticky mess that was passed without the peoples vote and was never understood by anyone that voted for it and Obama lied about what he promised about it.
Berdahl, still waiting for that, Obama should have never traded 5 top terrorist for him.
The border crisis, send in the fucking troops and secure the border for fuck sake's!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by GregE

This might come as something of a revelation, but people with healthy lifestyles sometimes get sick too.

Moreover, when they're precluded from healthcare access early on they end up costing somebody (i.e. the taxpayers) a hell of a lot more when they're dragged half dead into the ER.

It's like they say in that old Midas commercial, you can pay now or you can pay later.

Yep, and when I get sick I pay for it. You know, like a person is supposed to.

This might come as a revelation to you...insurance is NOT healthcare.
And for the first half of my adult life, I did what my parents and grandparents did before me: Paid money when I went to the doctor and the hospital.

And then the govt. got involved with HMO's back in the 1980's...which were supposed to make health care better and cheaper.

What we got was hospitals and pharmaceutical companies price-gouging the American people and making it so you can't go to the doctor at all unless you have insurance.

In the case of healthcare the old Midas commercial could be modified to say this: I paid for it before, I pay more for it now, AND I'm paying even higher costs for it later.

It seems to be a lose/lose situation.

Before ObamaCare was passed, the supporters of it said that once we all had insurance the prices would go down because there would be a bigger pool of people insured and it would stop people from skipping out on bills at hospitals.

Then after it was passed, and I say: "Wait, my insurance premium is skyrocketing...not going down", the same people say: "Insurance rates always went up, it's no big deal"

Well, if that's the case...then what was the point of all of this?
It sure does appear to me that the whole thing is just a big gift wrapped present to the big corporations that own hospitals, Big Pharma, and Big Insurance.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep, and when I get sick I pay for it. You know, like a person is supposed to.

This might come as a revelation to you...insurance is NOT healthcare.
And for the first half of my adult life, I did what my parents and grandparents did before me: Paid money when I went to the doctor and the hospital.

And then the govt. got involved with HMO's back in the 1980's...which were supposed to make health care better and cheaper.

What we got was hospitals and pharmaceutical companies price-gouging the American people and making it so you can't go to the doctor at all unless you have insurance.

In the case of healthcare the old Midas commercial could be modified to say this: I paid for it before, I pay more for it now, AND I'm paying even higher costs for it later.

It seems to be a lose/lose situation.

Before ObamaCare was passed, the supporters of it said that once we all had insurance the prices would go down because there would be a bigger pool of people insured and it would stop people from skipping out on bills at hospitals.

Then after it was passed, and I say: "Wait, my insurance premium is skyrocketing...not going down", the same people say: "Insurance rates always went up, it's no big deal"

Well, if that's the case...then what was the point of all of this?
It sure does appear to me that the whole thing is just a big gift wrapped present to the big corporations that own hospitals, Big Pharma, and Big Insurance.

While I don't necessarily disagree with your overall premise, the problem is that not everyone can afford healthcare and/or health insurance. And when they can't, it's you and I (as taxpayers) who get hit with the big ass bills instead of the comparatively small ones.

The reason we're stuck with Obamacare is because everyone from Obama on down knew that congress would never agree to single payer.

Emergency Rooms were abused long before Obama came along and they'll continue to be abused until this country finally joins the rest of the First World by instituting single payer.

Think about it. Are the majority of voters in Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Japan, Australia and virtually every other civilized country on the planet really stupid, or is it just possible that the USA is behind the times on this score?

[Barry-xlovecam]

As fucked up as the costs of healthcare are today the quality of healthcare as compared the the Marcus Welby MD days of the 1970s is vastly better -- we live 10+ years longer. So; tell me how much do you earn when you are dead or how much will your medical costs be in retirement? What used to be the last 5 or 10 years of your life in "retirement" has become your last 15 to 25 years.

I would not be so quick to credit Obamacare with better employment/ job creation statistics -- these are just talking points. Any better employment/ job creation statistics are simply the cyclical pent up demand caused by poor sales during a recession. If healthcare related stocks show advances that is due to the cash inflow to these public equity businesses by ACA's insurance requirements. This will change in time most likely to a nationalized healthcare system in the USA like most developed countries today.

Once people figure out that healthcare will cost 40% of what we are spending now if nationalized, this will happen. Medicare works -- our longer lifespan in the last 50 years proves that -- man did not evolve that much physically in the past 50 years to be the reason. Lifespans should increase at a faster rate just for the reason of what has been learned in the last 50 years.

So, if you live another 5 years is it trivial? Ask someone who is 80 years old the question what another 5 years of life is worth to them. Sure, that is self-centred -- most people are ...

Evidenced by Obamacare's harshest "talking point" critics.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by GregE

While I don't necessarily disagree with your overall premise, the problem is that not everyone can afford healthcare and/or health insurance. And when they can't, it's you and I (as taxpayers) who get hit with the big ass bills instead of the comparatively small ones.

That's the part I don't get.

Does the Federal govt. take our taxes and pay privately owned hospitals for the bills that some people can't pay? I've never heard of that.

But I keep seeing that same argument made that we all are somehow paying for people who didn't pay their hospital bill.

My argument is...if the Federal govt. would stop holding hands with the medical industry and allowing them to price gouge us, we wouldn't NEED insurance (except for catastrophe)

We never needed to have insurance before. I was born in the 1960's. Became an adult in the late 1970's.
Was a young man in the 1980's.

Trust me, if you are my age or older...you know damn well that this is a big ripoff. $50 for a dixie paper cup to drink water in the hospital?

CM had her appendix removed in 2011. That cost over $20,000 !!!!! And she didn't even stay overnight in the hospital.

In 1985 I had a stepson with my first wife. He had his appendix removed, but it had ruptured all the way. 3 day hospital stay in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla
Total cost? $3,500
We paid it out of pocket.

"Healthcare" should have been about tort reform, breaking the deal that the govt. made with Big Pharma, and starting Congressional investigations into the shady world of hospital billing and insurance company scams.

[BFT3K]

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Yet the top 1% are doing better under Obama and the median wage is down 8%

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rtin/?page=all

So where are you trying to go with this? Don't you ever read?

[aka123]

Does "red state" refer to communism?

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Yet the top 1% are doing better under Obama and the median wage is down 8%

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rtin/?page=all

So where are you trying to go with this? Don't you ever read?

Just cause something happens, doesn't mean its the cause of it....

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That's the part I don't get.

Does the Federal govt. take our taxes and pay privately owned hospitals for the bills that some people can't pay? I've never heard of that.

But I keep seeing that same argument made that we all are somehow paying for people who didn't pay their hospital bill.

My argument is...if the Federal govt. would stop holding hands with the medical industry and allowing them to price gouge us, we wouldn't NEED insurance (except for catastrophe)

We never needed to have insurance before. I was born in the 1960's. Became an adult in the late 1970's.
Was a young man in the 1980's.

Trust me, if you are my age or older...you know damn well that this is a big ripoff. $50 for a dixie paper cup to drink water in the hospital?

CM had her appendix removed in 2011. That cost over $20,000 !!!!! And she didn't even stay overnight in the hospital.

In 1985 I had a stepson with my first wife. He had his appendix removed, but it had ruptured all the way. 3 day hospital stay in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla
Total cost? $3,500
We paid it out of pocket.

"Healthcare" should have been about tort reform, breaking the deal that the govt. made with Big Pharma, and starting Congressional investigations into the shady world of hospital billing and insurance company scams.

Robbie yes, when a hospital has a bad debt the government bails them out for a portion of it

random link, may not be the best: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...-save-b/nT6Qj/

it may just deal w/ medicare

Hospitals aren?t leaning hard enough on Medicare beneficiaries to pay their share of medical costs, according to a recent report. It suggests reducing what the government pays to cover such bad debt, which could pressure hospitals to bill more aggressively.
This approach could save Medicare nearly $36 billion in the next decade, the report estimates.
The federal government spends millions of dollars each year reimbursing local hospitals for uncollected deductibles and coinsurance not paid by Medicare beneficiaries, a practice that private insurance companies do not follow.
The report by the Health and Human Services Office of Inspector General says this encourages hospitals to bill Medicare instead of trying to collect from patients.
But hospital officials say they are aggressive while still losing money on every fully funded Medicare patient they treat, forcing them to shift costs to private payers.
Last year, Medicare reimbursed hospitals 70 percent of the amount they could not collect from patients, called ?bad debt.? Recently passed health care reforms reduce rate this to 65 percent. But the report, released in December, suggests slashing it to 25 percent.

[Robbie]

Yeah arock, looks like that is medicare "bad debt" in that story.

Which is weird too. If a person is on medicare, and they get treated...isn't the govt. supposed to pay that? And now they are finally reimbursing the hospitals for it?

Just bizarre.

And again, maybe if the govt. bureaucrats and politicians weren't in the pocket of Big Pharma, Big Medical Corp.s that own hospitals, and Big Insurance...we wouldn't NEED all of this insurance. We could afford to go to the doctor, and only carry catastrophic insurance.