Who Should Pay the Chargeback/refund fee?

[Matyko]

Simple as fuck. Should programs eat it or should they pass it over on the affiliate?

[edgeprod]

You got your answers on the other board, no?

[Matyko]

I am interested in the opinion of both communities

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by Matyko

I am interested in the opinion of both communities

Ah.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by Matyko

Simple as fuck. Should programs eat it or should they pass it over on the affiliate?

We pay, we also pay the ccbill processing charge. Do check this also!

CCbill gives the choice to the sponsor whether the ccbill processing fees are split before the affiliates share or after, not always seen. This would therefore not give the 50% or affiliate the correct amount if the sponsor decides to split processing & then pay the affiliate

[woj]

obviously someone has to pay for it... so:
a. a sponsor could pay 60% and affiliate pays the fees
or
b. 50% and sponsor pays the fees...

if your traffic is good, you should be better off with option "a"...
so: "a", affiliate pays the fee, is the correct answer...

[ChargeBacks]

Originally Posted by Matyko

Simple as fuck. Should programs eat it or should they pass it over on the affiliate?

Dear Matyko

What does your affiliate agreement with the Sponsors stipulate? No where in any agreement I have personally seen does it include a clause that holds the affiliate responsible in sharing in the bank's chargeback fee.

Hope that helps!

Sabrina F.

[baddog]

I vote for Obama

[2MuchMark]

Hi Matyko,

In a perfect world it would depend on the reason for the chargeback.

If the chargeback is pure fraud, the program owner can argue that the affiliate sent him garbage traffic. At the same time, the affiliate could argue that the traffic is good, but that the service was bad.

If the program owner offers high payouts and zero responsibility for chargebacks, this of course invites all kinds of fraud.

In my opinion, the best way to do this is to have the program owner absorb the cost of the chargeback, but notify the affiliate of the chargeback and warn him that if the chargeback rate exceeds your comfort zone, that you may choose to stop doing business with that affiliate.

You could also take a different approach. Try to pay closer attention to the sales you get and look for clues that a customer will chargeback. Was a woman name used? Is this is first visit to your site? Known Proxy IP? If you spot a potential chargeback, you can contact the customer and attempt to verify that he is indeed the card holder. If you can't, you may want to void the transaction and inform your affiliate that he won't be getting a commish' for this one.

Reading and understanding the data is paramount to helping you make good decisions and keeping the affiliates and others you depend on happy.

[ChargeBacks]

Originally Posted by **********

Hi Matyko,

In a perfect world it would depend on the reason for the chargeback.

If the chargeback is pure fraud, the program owner can argue that the affiliate sent him garbage traffic. At the same time, the affiliate could argue that the traffic is good, but that the service was bad.

If the program owner offers high payouts and zero responsibility for chargebacks, this of course invites all kinds of fraud.

In my opinion, the best way to do this is to have the program owner absorb the cost of the chargeback, but notify the affiliate of the chargeback and warn him that if the chargeback rate exceeds your comfort zone, that you may choose to stop doing business with that affiliate.

You could also take a different approach. Try to pay closer attention to the sales you get and look for clues that a customer will chargeback. Was a woman name used? Is this is first visit to your site? Known Proxy IP? If you spot a potential chargeback, you can contact the customer and attempt to verify that he is indeed the card holder. If you can't, you may want to void the transaction and inform your affiliate that he won't be getting a commish' for this one.

Reading and understanding the data is paramount to helping you make good decisions and keeping the affiliates and others you depend on happy.

Very well stated **********.

Sabrina F.

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by Matyko

Simple as fuck. Should programs eat it or should they pass it over on the affiliate?

The processor should pay for the fee. They processed the payment that was chargebacked. Their security system failed...They charge us up to 15% for processing because we are considered high risk. I would actually be pleased to pay for all chargeback fees... the moment they drop their fees to 2%.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

The processor should pay for the fee. They processed the payment that was chargebacked. Their security system failed...They charge us up to 15% for processing because we are considered high risk. I would actually be pleased to pay for all chargeback fees... the moment they drop their fees to 2%.

Well speaking about chargeback fee,skrill which is for mainstream/gambling,have nice scheme where default fee is 2.9% but you pay for chargeback,while if you want dont want to pay for chargeback then it is 7.9% rate.

[ravo]

on revshare: the affiliate
on PPS: the sponsor

[venus]

we eat all refunds/chargebacks fee's, I see no reason to pass it on

Originally Posted by Matyko

Simple as fuck. Should programs eat it or should they pass it over on the affiliate?

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

The processor should pay for the fee. They processed the payment that was chargebacked. Their security system failed...

No that's not necessarily true. How do you know that the customer just wasn't happy with the service, and couldn't reach the merchant for a credit or refund?

Or, how do you know that the card holder didn't realize or report his card or card data stolen for days or even weeks?

Or, how do you know it just wasn't first-time "friendly fraud"? (A guy who made a purchase, had buyers remorse, then lied about his cards use?

None of these events or conditions can be detected by software.

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

They charge us up to 15% for processing because we are considered high risk. I would actually be pleased to pay for all chargeback fees... the moment they drop their fees to 2%.

There's no reason for any processors to lower their rates. They are in demand and everyone needs them. Who wants to process for new, inexperienced webmaster without a good sales history in the adult arena for only 2%? No one. "High Risk" isn't high risk just because its adult...

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by ravo

on revshare: the affiliate
on PPS: the sponsor

I was going to suggest something like this...

If you're a program owner, you could always offer multiple options where you cover the chargebacks with one option, while the affiliate pays the chargebacks if he takes the other option.

The parameters for each one should be decided on carefully of course.

[Mutt]

With CCBILL programs neither the paysite owner or the affiliate pays any chargeback/refund fee - all that happens is that the sale is lost, the paysite owner and the affiliate both lose their share of the sale.

I wasn't aware there were programs that charged the chargeback fee to the affiliate.

If you're talking about affiliates should keep their payout, be it PPS or revshare, on a sale that gets charged back - that's ridiculous, why should a program pay out anything on a sale that was reversed by refund/chargeback?

[Matyko]

First of all, thank you all for the input! Some very nice posts [**********!] were made.

Originally Posted by ravo

on revshare: the affiliate
on PPS: the sponsor

Ravo, I don't get it, why you say this? Imo pps attracts fraud affils way more.. So for revshare affils it is very unlikely that the chargeback is because of fraud affil so why should they pay the fee?

Honestly, ~10 years in the biz, I met the very first sponsor who does this shit. This year I made over 4300 paysite membership sales, with 124 refunds and 18 chargebacks. 3 of these chargebacks are associated with this program. I've sent them 30+ joins in a month or so. No refunds, these are chargebacks. Don't blame the traffic, with this traffic I have good conversions and low refund/cb ratio for other sponsors.

If I send 30 sales to a revshare program and 3 does chargeback, it means something. I was trying to get their site reviewed, that way we'd see the member area, etc. My crew used to only send joins to sites we did check in depth and do like/'approve' . We're not pushing any programs where we find the surfer experience to be crappy. This particular site has Great content in a niche we have experience [interracial] but it seems something smells behind the curtains..



Back to the topic: imo all sponsor programs should eat all such fees. If they keep an eye on the details of the chargebacks and find a certain affiliate having bad sales/cb ratio: they should suspend, pass the fees, whatever. Of course it is a Must in such a case to contact the affiliate and discuss the problem with him.

[AmeliaG]

CCBill covers the fees for their programs.

Epoch charges the sponsor for theirs.

Other options vary.

I kind of agree that for 15ish percent, the biller should eat the fee and just cut off anyone who racks up a lot of chargebacks.

The affiliate should never have to eat the fee.

[OldJeff]

Rev Share, it should be split at the same % affiliates are paid for.

PPS Typically the sponsor eats it (If an affiliate is pushing too many chargebacks, a smart sponsor will stop taking their traffic)

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Matyko

First of all, thank you all for the input! Some very nice posts [**********!] were made.



Ravo, I don't get it, why you say this? Imo pps attracts fraud affils way more.. So for revshare affils it is very unlikely that the chargeback is because of fraud affil so why should they pay the fee?

Honestly, ~10 years in the biz, I met the very first sponsor who does this shit. This year I made over 4300 paysite membership sales, with 124 refunds and 18 chargebacks. 3 of these chargebacks are associated with this program. I've sent them 30+ joins in a month or so. No refunds, these are chargebacks. Don't blame the traffic, with this traffic I have good conversions and low refund/cb ratio for other sponsors.

If I send 30 sales to a revshare program and 3 does chargeback, it means something. I was trying to get their site reviewed, that way we'd see the member area, etc. My crew used to only send joins to sites we did check in depth and do like/'approve' . We're not pushing any programs where we find the surfer experience to be crappy. This particular site has Great content in a niche we have experience [interracial] but it seems something smells behind the curtains..



Back to the topic: imo all sponsor programs should eat all such fees. If they keep an eye on the details of the chargebacks and find a certain affiliate having bad sales/cb ratio: they should suspend, pass the fees, whatever. Of course it is a Must in such a case to contact the affiliate and discuss the problem with him.

Because I have such respect for you and love for all things Hungarian (especially the women) I will, for YOU, absorb ANY chargebacks you send to my Program(s).



What a deal!!

[kristin]

Originally Posted by ravo

on revshare: the affiliate
on PPS: the sponsor

^^ This.

[romeo22]

that really suck ball.i got once in the same situation and i did pay it