chronik

Are there any streaming video solutions that can't be ripped? Such as with rtmpdumphelper. Screen recording apparently won't give the same results and the video will be choppy, but most if not all video streams can be ripped otherwise (so you download the actual mp4, not a recording)

Anyone have something rock solid against this?

Tekkno

Silverlight with DRM technology is supposed to be pretty solid..

Focus

I like this thread already

freecartoonporn

see youtube, even they cant protect it.,

but i have seen one site , cant recall its name, i was unabe to get the file. one of the popular site, ..

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chronik

Can't remember it's name...

chronik

So I've heard

Does that mean running a Windows based server? Does silverlight even work with android/iphone/etc...

Kind of iffy to get involved in anything Microsoft related

2MuchMark

There are a few things that can be done, but none of them work very well. If your computer can receive the data, it can be saved and copied one way or another.

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PAR

Wouldn't the file still be found in the users temp files...

What you could do for html5 is:

Predefine on the HTML or dynamically insert a <canvas> to the DOM. This is the "player" that the user sees.
Dynamically create a video tag via JS, append it to the DOM hidden and give it a url to stream. This will be the video source for the canvas.
Then with JS, you periodically grab data from the <video> you just created and draw it to the <canvas>. With this step, the video gets fed to the canvas.
That's the very basic of the entire routine. Since your player is now the canvas and the true video hidden, you can try right-clicking all you want and save. Since the canvas acts like an image on the page, you can only save a shot of a frame that was displayed on the canvas. As for controls, JS has an API for controlling <video> so you can create custom buttons and sliders.

However, if they know you are doing this, they will find your hidden video element..

seeric

Look. Get over the locking down streaming stuff.

Stream your movies. Don't offer any downloads.

No one cares.

I have been streaming only since 2008 and we NEVER get emails from customers asking for downloads.

Netflix has trained the world by now.

You will see a lot less piracy just by doing streaming.

The rest of the piracy you see you can hire a company to remove each month when it's found.

Piracy is a no win war right now. You can try to keep up though. It works.


.

JimmyStephans

What Mark said is the true facts and we'll never get around that.

A solution from Apple called HLS is interesting in how it breaks up the files for adaptive streaming.

It has some security options that (1) prevent the files from being pulled for your CDN to other sites (much like htaccess can work for JPG hotlinking) and (2) some of their own encryption using https keys that also works to secure the video in a subscriber area.

Those two things "help", but eventually the stream is on the viewers computer and somebody will make a recorder to capture it.

Side benefit is that it is not just a file ended in .mp4. Its a series of tiny files (4 to 10 seconds each) so the simple right click to save doesn't currently work.

Also, at this time, not all players work with it - which limits the sites that can rip and use. JWPlayer, only the $299 yearly option works, others it takes a $250 plug-in.

HTML5 will play it with the video tag in Safari, but its not fully ready in other browsers yet.

More Details: https://developer.apple.com/streaming/

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chronik

I already keep up quite a bit without streaming, I've used rtmpdumphelper on an allegedly "protected" stream and was downloading the stream immediately.

Simply offering streaming over downloading doesn't seem like a very effective option to me.

freecartoonporn

its the site where you record your screen and show to people., someone here posted a link back in time with some technique on how to bypass nats security and still download full length videos from paysites or somthing like that. ,

try looking in history.

edit:
i guess it was screencast.com but i am not sure.,

and just checked i can get the video file directly.

so either its not screencast.com or the tech must be outdated.

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disinfected

What I know/have been told... if it streans it can be ripped.

There is no sense in blocking 95% from download if 5% still can. It is the 5% that are hired to rip your sheeetz and they will get it and upload it to friendly tubes safeguarded by dmca law.

blinki bill

If it's stream one way or another it can be ripped it's just how hard it's going to be. However I think that giving up on protecting is a mistake.

Personally I don't like the canvas method for protecting html5 video, it makes no sense as you put a hidden html5 player on the page which at the end results to just hiding the right click menu.

Reasonably good way of protecting html5 is:
1 injecting the video link to the player with js on dom ready (so that if js is disabled video won't play)
2 remove/replace the right click of the player with js (no download video link)
3 make a stream script that streams the files don't link directly
4 generate short life video link each time video page is requested and store cookie with token for that link

basically the stream script checks if the referrer is your own site, if the link id exists in the database and if the captured user data and cookie token match the database record for the link

I haven't seen anything using something like that out of the box, but have seen similar things custom coded on sites, I have a similar thing custom coded on some of my sites.

You can go further by splitting the file using the http ranges, and use the canvas method on top of all that
(ie you make a playlist with lets say 5 pieces of the same file and code your player to show a continuous progress bar for the full video not for each separate piece; this is the only part that is actually samewhat complicated)

Barry-xlovecam

The Netflix Tech Blog: HTML5 Video Playback UI

Encrypted Media Extensions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HTML5 streaming with Encrypted Media Extensions

If Neflix can do it with copyright movies ....

blinki bill

Encrypted Media Extensions is a good step forward the only problem is that it works with latest versions of browsers only and you have to fallback for older browsers, at the end whoever wants to steal the video will use old browser deliberately

Barry-xlovecam

Non HTML5 browsers will be like IE6 in a few years -- so who really gives a fuck? People with money to spend don't use obsolete software. The fall-back is HLS anyway and those streams are relatively secure. There is a lot more to win here than what there is to lose -- who says you HAVE to? Look at the browsers of your members -- the people who buy. A posteriori knowledge gained by my empirical experience of our customers says IE is the only problem so how long will the Microsoft laggerts have a substantial footprint if they continue in their obstinacy?

We are only investing our development budget in the new HTML5 technologies and in the process of updating relevant related software. Strictly maintenance of the legacy software.

Time waits for no man ...

blinki bill

You are right, it's always worth investing towards new technologies and implementing it as soon as possible

my point about the fallback was that you may have to fallback to normal html5 as Encrypted Media Extensions is quite new and wasn't there when html5 video came out, so only latest versions of browsers support it, granted most surfers that don't use IE are up to date but you still have people with older versions and mobile devices that support html5 but not EME

It's a good step forward but it will take some time

anyway there are things one can do to protect html5, new ideas and technologies come up all the time, most people that say you can't do anything about html5 are looking at old news

Barry-xlovecam

Oh OK, the remark was limited to that encryption schema being in the browser ... I thought you meant old clunker browsers and Flash fall-backs. That will evolve -- the first time they get a refusal to load using their Netflix account (or Youtube a (CYA action?)) they will get current.

We have to force compliance with copyright with new technolog(ies) -- this will always be cat-and-mouse battle ...

adultmobile

Even if you could protect the stream via network, it must be displayed in screen, right?
Then with CamStudio - Free Screen Recording Software anyone records the video from monitor then save it as video file...

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AdultKing

If it can be seen on a display then it can be copied.

blinki bill

there is no silver bullet, html5 or not at the end of the day a no mater what you use the video can be ripped.

There is no security protection of any sort in the world that is 100% bullet proof, any security can be breached, this doesn't mean you should just abandon any effort to make things secure. I was working on a coding project once and one of the other developers made a plugin for the main system that was storing the user passwords as plain text in a cookie, on top of that it was disabling the ssl connection, when I called him to talk about that he was like "If a really good hacker wants to hack into user accounts he can do that anyway, it makes no difference"; I couldn't believe that was happening.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, people tend to think they have more rights over the content when they can download it, when it's protected even if they jump hoops to get it they are very aware that it's obtained illegally, it makes a big difference

So as a conclusion:
can you protect html5 video - YES
is it bulletproof - NO (nor is anything else)

symtab

porntube.com has a method which is not easy to rip. They use ajax to get the video file location (probably with tricky request headers and referer protection).

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Barry-xlovecam

There is always some leakage in copyright protection.

Same as a door lock -- you can always break the door in or smash a window.

chronik

The problem with online media is all it takes is one person to NOT have any problem with ripping your content, and then it's spread all over the internet. Just takes one person to make the initial rip, and then it's everywhere. It's hard for me to say if it's work taking a step into having only streamable videos, and protected, when the same problem will occur.

freecartoonporn

there is no tech/method launched recently which divides stream in multiple small objects so its pretty difficult to rip it.

cant recall where i read it,

if you habe budget you can always create a custom player with more control over filetypes and encoding and something like that.

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hadden

Decentralize and create a p2p network like skype.
alternatives exist to adobe for streaming.
The answer is your own.

enjora-tom

I would argue for putting resources into building an amazing service and making consumption convenient.
You can put hurdles in front of rippers but will never be eliminate ripping all together. So if someone is determined he will get your stuff for sure!

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DWB

We did this for the past 4 or 5 years. What you are going to hear from everyone who hasn't done it, or didn't do it correctly, is that it can't be done or that it is a waste of time. Blah, blah, blah.

Reality: It can be done. However, it is not 100% bulletproof anymore. But 99.999% of your members won't bother trying to get it. Only hardcore pirates will. People are also not going to waste their time to screen record it.

You will lose some members over it. Not tons, but you will lose some. Be sure to set up a form to capture why they are leaving. What is difficult to measure is those who do not tell you why they cancel. So you may lose more than you think. If there is no cancel reason, you simply don't know.

We have also tried other variations. High quality stream, lower quality download. No downloads. All downloads. And so on. Since we have several niches, we have also found that some types of members complain about this more than others. So you will have to see what works best for you, possibly even on a per site basis. There isn't an easy YES or NO answer.

killerbunny

true..:D

The Porn Nerd

Also, stream-only works best for HD and for sites with tons of content. And I mean TONS. For a smaller niche site with, say, 30 videos in the Members Area stream-only will kill your rebills. Make them take the time to download the content. Also there is a cost to streaming-only, like getting a streaming server etc.

But as DWB says, there is no perfect solution because some Members want to keep a file (download) while others want stream-only while others do not care. For me, find the 'sweet spot', or the balance, and what costs you the least and keeps Members rebilling the longest abd go with that.

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