House Republicans vote to cut Social Security for 11 million Disabled Americans

[SuckOnThis]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats appear to have little recourse against a House of Representatives rule change that could prompt a steep cut to Social Security disability benefits next year, congressional aides said on Monday.

The new legislative rule, pushed through with little notice last week, would prohibit a routine transfer to the Social Security Disability Trust Fund, which is expected to be depleted by late 2016.

Without an injection from the main Social Security retirement fund, the disability program would have to cut benefits by some 20 percent, only paying out what it can collect from payroll taxes.

Congress approved the last such "reallocation" transfer in 1994 after several in the 1980s under President Ronald Reagan.

Republicans say they passed the rule change to force reforms to the disability program, which they claim is rife with fraud and mismanagement. Democrats, unable to stop the shift, have called it a "stealth" move to cut benefits.

On Monday, Senate Democrats issued a plea to Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to oppose an "audacious" rule change that would "hold hostage" benefits for some 9 million disabled Americans.

"It only increases the chances of yet another unnecessary manufactured crisis, akin to shutting down the government or threatening the full faith and credit of the United States," Richard Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Senate Democrat, and seven others wrote in a letter to McConnell. They asked him to "forcibly reject" the change.

McConnell has not commented on the request, but Republican aides say there is little he can do about a legislative rule passed in the House. Since revenue measures must originate in the House, the House rule would ensure that a routine transfer could not take place.

A Democratic aide on the House Ways and Means Committee acknowledged that not much can be done about the rule change until 2016, when the disability fund is close to depletion and an election-year showdown over benefit cuts could occur.

Republican Representative Sam Johnson, of Texas, who authored the rule change, said it was meant to protect Social Security retirement benefits from being "raided" by the "fraud-plagued disability program" and to encourage reforms.


Little recourse seen for Democrats on Social Security rule change - Yahoo News

[L-Pink]

"Republican Representative Sam Johnson, of Texas, who authored the rule change, said it was meant to protect Social Security retirement benefits from being "raided" by the "fraud-plagued disability program" and to encourage reforms"

I'm in favor of the above. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a program to assist the disabled but the actual social security program is funded by payroll deductions and earmarked for retired workers who contributed to it.

And for the record I personally am acquainted with 3 people getting disability payments. 2 of them are scamming the system and both work for cash on the side, one full time.

.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

And for the record I personally am acquainted with 3 people getting disability payments. 2 of them are scamming the system and both work for cash on the side, one full time.

.

Then why don't you report them instead of supporting legitimately disabled people from going into poverty?

[Rochard]

Only took them two weeks to start fucking things up.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

"Republican Representative Sam Johnson, of Texas, who authored the rule change, said it was meant to protect Social Security retirement benefits from being "raided" by the "fraud-plagued disability program" and to encourage reforms"

I'm in favor of the above. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a program to assist the disabled but the actual social security program is funded by payroll deductions and earmarked for retired workers who contributed to it.

And for the record I personally am acquainted with 3 people getting disability payments. 2 of them are scamming the system and both work for cash on the side, one full time.

.

I have a friend of mine who who collects food stamps for his two boys while he works full time under the table, so I'm not surprised...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Then why don't you report them instead of supporting legitimately disabled people from going into poverty?

Have you reported people you know who don't pay all their taxes? Who sell drugs? Have you? Don't get holier than thou with me. Have you?

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Have you reported people you know who don't pay all their taxes? Who sell drugs? Have you? Don't get holier than thou with me. Have you?

No, simply because I don't feel either one of those two things are morally wrong. Now if the guy next door was molesting kids, damn right I'd report him.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

No, simply because I don't feel either one of those two things are morally wrong. Now if the guy next door was molesting kids, damn right I'd report him.

By not paying taxes they are not contributing to our society as they should. And are directly responsible for the shortfall in the distribution of the very taxes you just criticized me about, leading to preventing "legitimately disabled people from going into poverty"

WTF dude? Stop being a hypocrite and start reporting these people putting disabled people into poverty.

According to you it's not morally wrong to not pay taxes but wrong for how the Republicans are distributing tax money from those that paid? You need to reset your moral and common sense compass.



.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats appear to have little recourse against a House of Representatives rule change that could prompt a steep cut to Social Security disability benefits next year, congressional aides said on Monday.

The new legislative rule, pushed through with little notice last week, would prohibit a routine transfer to the Social Security Disability Trust Fund, which is expected to be depleted by late 2016.

Without an injection from the main Social Security retirement fund, the disability program would have to cut benefits by some 20 percent, only paying out what it can collect from payroll taxes.

Congress approved the last such "reallocation" transfer in 1994 after several in the 1980s under President Ronald Reagan.

Republicans say they passed the rule change to force reforms to the disability program, which they claim is rife with fraud and mismanagement. Democrats, unable to stop the shift, have called it a "stealth" move to cut benefits.

On Monday, Senate Democrats issued a plea to Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to oppose an "audacious" rule change that would "hold hostage" benefits for some 9 million disabled Americans.

"It only increases the chances of yet another unnecessary manufactured crisis, akin to shutting down the government or threatening the full faith and credit of the United States," Richard Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Senate Democrat, and seven others wrote in a letter to McConnell. They asked him to "forcibly reject" the change.

McConnell has not commented on the request, but Republican aides say there is little he can do about a legislative rule passed in the House. Since revenue measures must originate in the House, the House rule would ensure that a routine transfer could not take place.

A Democratic aide on the House Ways and Means Committee acknowledged that not much can be done about the rule change until 2016, when the disability fund is close to depletion and an election-year showdown over benefit cuts could occur.

Republican Representative Sam Johnson, of Texas, who authored the rule change, said it was meant to protect Social Security retirement benefits from being "raided" by the "fraud-plagued disability program" and to encourage reforms.


Little recourse seen for Democrats on Social Security rule change - Yahoo News

[L-Pink]

never mind ........

[slapass]

The states have been moving people to the SSI roles to avoid paying welfare. Now the fed is pushng back.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

By not paying taxes they are not contributing to our society as they should. And are directly responsible for the shortfall in the distribution of the very taxes you just criticized me about, leading to preventing "legitimately disabled people from going into poverty"

WTF dude? Stop being a hypocrite and start reporting these people putting disabled people into poverty.

According to you it's not morally wrong to not pay taxes but wrong for how the Republicans are distributing tax money from those that paid? You need to reset your moral and common sense compass.



.

Not sure why you're getting so defensive, all I'm saying is if it bothers you that 1% are gaming the system you should do something about it rather than support punishing the other 99%. I only know one person on disability because of MS, took her 3 years to get approved for a measly $1200 a month. Why anyone would fight that long to be poor unless they had no other choice is beyond me.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Not sure why you're getting so defensive, all I'm saying is if it bothers you that 1% are gaming the system you should do something about it rather than support punishing the other 99%. I only know one person on disability because of MS, took her 3 years to get approved for a measly $1200 a month. Why anyone would fight that long to be poor unless they had no other choice is beyond me.

Where in the hell did this turn into a discussion about the 1% doing anything?

And you still haven't told me why you haven't turned in people you know who are not doing their share to, in your words, help "legitimately disabled people from going into poverty"

After all that is what you so condescendingly accused me of.

[JJ Gold]

Lots of meth freaks on disability.

[bronco67]

Why would this surprise anyone. They'll cut anything they can, except for tax loopholes. They're always ready to cry "fraud" at anything and throw the baby out with the bath water.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by **********

They both have severely punchable faces. Just look at them. Boehner needs a shovel across that clown face.

These are the curmudgeonly, old-ass jerkoffs elected to our high political positions.

[Tom_PM]

You have to bear in mind that according to a lot of idiots who only parrot what they hear, the only people on any sort of government assistance program are toothless drug addicts who already have jobs but don't report the income. They feel emboldened.

[Va2k]

WOW that really sucks, my mom is fully disabled so is my bedridden sister, what there benefits don't cover I am covering when I can. The last 2 to 3 years have been hard for me, do to my health. Thank god I can still work, I was told by my Dr to take disability and refused to go that route.

People that really need these benefits NEED Them.. I CAN NOT stand these assholes that do fraud because it hurts the people needing them the most.

[poncabare]

Originally Posted by Fungus

WOW that really sucks, my mom is fully disabled so is my bedridden sister, what there benefits don't cover I am covering when I can. The last 2 to 3 years have been hard for me, do to my health. Thank god I can still work, I was told by my Dr to take disability and refused to go that route.

People that really need these benefits NEED Them.. I CAN NOT stand these assholes that do fraud because it hurts the people needing them the most.

spot on...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Fungus

WOW that really sucks, my mom is fully disabled so is my bedridden sister, what there benefits don't cover I am covering when I can. The last 2 to 3 years have been hard for me, do to my health. Thank god I can still work, I was told by my Dr to take disability and refused to go that route.

People that really need these benefits NEED Them.. I CAN NOT stand these assholes that do fraud because it hurts the people needing them the most.

And they should get those benefits from money in the Social Security DISABILITY Trust Fund. They should NOT get those funds from money in the Social Security RETIREMENT Trust Fund. That money is already promised to those who had it withheld from their paychecks.

The DISABILITY trust fund is way over budget and prone to fraud. Something needs done.

Maybe the money should come from a reduced military budget, a national 1% sales tax, etc. But bankrupting the RETIREMENT fund isn't the way to go.

The discussion should be how to properly/fairly help those truly disabled. Anyone wishing to bankrupt the RETIREMENT fund isn't looking at the big picture but just just playing politics.

People like the OP who think it's ok not to pay taxes really shouldn't have an opinion at all when discussing the distribution of tax monies.


.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Where in the hell did this turn into a discussion about the 1% doing anything?

And you still haven't told me why you haven't turned in people you know who are not doing their share to, in your words, help "legitimately disabled people from going into poverty"

After all that is what you so condescendingly accused me of.

The 1% is the number Social Security estimates to be committing fraud, and actually it is less than 1%.

Fmr. Social Security Commissioner Michael Astrue: Fraud Is Less Than 1 Percent Of SSI Payments. Former Bush Administration Social Security Commissioner Michael Astrue explained on MSNBC's All In with Chris Hayes that fraud constitutes less than 1 percent of the outlays of Supplemental Security Income, one of the federal benefit programs for individuals with disabilities.

Right-Wing Media Miss The Facts On Disability Fraud | Research | Media Matters for America

I just find it odd that someone would support cutting benefits to every disabled person in this country because of that. Fraud happens in every sector, insurance fraud rates hover at around 10%, would you support an insurance company only paying 80% of your house if it were to burn down because someone else committed insurance fraud?

I also find it odd that just about every conservative says they know 2 or 3 people committing SS fraud, yet in my 40+ years on this planet I have yet to know one of these people. If the problem is that prevalent then hell yea, turn 'em in.

Make no mistake, this not about fraud, its about republicans once again going after the most vulnerable. Claiming its about fraud is simply a smokescreen. They have said before their goal is to eliminate Social Security and this is just the first step.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

And they should get those benefits from money in the Social Security DISABILITY Trust Fund. They should NOT get those funds from money in the Social Security RETIREMENT Trust Fund. That money is already promised to those who had it withheld from their paychecks.

The DISABILITY trust fund is way over budget and prone to fraud. Something needs done.

Maybe the money should come from a reduced military budget, a national 1% sales tax, etc. But bankrupting the RETIREMENT fund isn't the way to go.

The discussion should be how to properly/fairly help those truly disabled. Anyone wishing to bankrupt the RETIREMENT fund isn't looking at the big picture but just just playing politics.

People like the OP who think it's ok not to pay taxes really shouldn't have an opinion at all when discussing the distribution of tax monies.


.

Social Security Disability is a part of the Social Security program. A tiny percent of the Social Security we pay is for Disability insurance. Of course the money should come from that.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

I just find it odd that someone would support cutting benefits to every disabled person in this country because of that.

Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said we should cut benefits. I said we need to find another way too pay for them that won't bankrupt another system.

What's so hard to understand about that?

And as someone who doesn't see anything wrong with not paying taxes in the first place why should you even care about how my/others tax money is spent?


.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said we should cut benefits. I said we need to find another way too pay for them that won't bankrupt another system.

What's so hard to understand about that?

And as someone who doesn't see anything wrong with not paying taxes in the first place why should you even care about how my/others tax money is spent?


.

Really? You said "I'm in favor of the above."

Then you asked why I don't report people who don't pay all their taxes, you didn't say turn in people who don't pay taxes. Talk about putting words in mouths. You telling me you never deducted a ream of paper and used some of that paper for personal use?

[RebelR]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

The 1% is the number Social Security estimates to be committing fraud, and actually it is less than 1%.



Right-Wing Media Miss The Facts On Disability Fraud | Research | Media Matters for America

I just find it odd that someone would support cutting benefits to every disabled person in this country because of that. Fraud happens in every sector, insurance fraud rates hover at around 10%, would you support an insurance company only paying 80% of your house if it were to burn down because someone else committed insurance fraud?

I also find it odd that just about every conservative says they know 2 or 3 people committing SS fraud, yet in my 40+ years on this planet I have yet to know one of these people. If the problem is that prevalent then hell yea, turn 'em in.

Make no mistake, this not about fraud, its about republicans once again going after the most vulnerable. Claiming its about fraud is simply a smokescreen. They have said before their goal is to eliminate Social Security and this is just the first step.

The issue I have with that 1% number is that they say it's <1% because any other number would force their hand to actually reform the system. Also (and I know that its based on anecdotal evidence) 1% would mean that most people would know no one that is collecting, and if you did, the chances of knowing multiple people that are gaming the system would be near impossible.

These government programs are always intended to be a hand up, but usually end up just being hand outs, as the marginal people receiving them, start to realize that it is more lucrative to stay on the program than to actually go out and work. This impacts the people who really need it the most as they get painted with the same brush.

The Republicans seem to be adopting a Throw the baby out with the bath water approach. Not sure if its the smartest approach, but not sure what else they can do that will effect change. Shutting down the "slush fund" and forcing reform, or an alternate way of finding fun seems to be the only way.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Really? You said "I'm in favor of the above."

Then you asked why I don't report people who don't pay all their taxes, you didn't say turn in people who don't pay taxes. Talk about putting words in mouths. You telling me you never deducted a ream of paper and used some of that paper for personal use?

Yes, I'm in favor of taking steps to make sure the entire system doesn't go bankrupt next year.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by RebelR

The issue I have with that 1% number is that they say it's <1% because any other number would force their hand to actually reform the system. Also (and I know that its based on anecdotal evidence) 1% would mean that most people would know no one that is collecting, and if you did, the chances of knowing multiple people that are gaming the system would be near impossible.

These government programs are always intended to be a hand up, but usually end up just being hand outs, as the marginal people receiving them, start to realize that it is more lucrative to stay on the program than to actually go out and work. This impacts the people who really need it the most as they get painted with the same brush.

The Republicans seem to be adopting a Throw the baby out with the bath water approach. Not sure if its the smartest approach, but not sure what else they can do that will effect change. Shutting down the "slush fund" and forcing reform, or an alternate way of finding fun seems to be the only way.

Seems like 10% of the TV ads in Florida are for attorneys promising to get you SS benefits.

.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Yes, I'm in favor of taking steps to make sure the entire system doesn't go bankrupt next year.

Where did you hear the entire system will go bankrupt next year?

Here are the facts....

Social Security has $2.73 Trillion in trust fund reserves.

Social Security reserves are still growing and will continue to grow through 2020.

Beginning in 2021, program costs are projected to exceed income, shrinking the trust funds.

The trust funds will be exhausted in 2033, the same year projected in the 2012 report.

After 2033, income will cover 77% of scheduled payments.

Exposing the Social Security solvency hype - MarketWatch

[Barry-xlovecam]

There is a lot of abuse in SSI especially relative to those collecting SSI of "psychological impairment". There is a legal element that makes money off getting people these benefits based on manufactured need.

However, cutting benefits to all recipients, regardless of need, is cruel and is collective punishment. This is your new and kinder House of Representatives. They will just mobilize their opposition by stupidity like this ...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Where did you hear the entire system will go bankrupt next year?

Here are the facts....

Social Security has $2.73 Trillion in trust fund reserves.

Social Security reserves are still growing and will continue to grow through 2020.

Beginning in 2021, program costs are projected to exceed income, shrinking the trust funds.

The trust funds will be exhausted in 2033, the same year projected in the 2012 report.

After 2033, income will cover 77% of scheduled payments.

Exposing the Social Security solvency hype - MarketWatch

Actually I got it from the article you posted "A Democratic aide on the House Ways and Means Committee acknowledged that not much can be done about the rule change until 2016, when the disability fund is close to depletion"

The disability fund will run out next year unless something is done. What Democrats need to do is stop bitching and present a plan that works before then. Show where unnecessary benefit payments are being curtailed and explain where new funds will come from.


.

[beerptrol]

Maybe instead of spending money on pork projects that benefit their districts, they should spend it on battling fraud across the board and catching people and companies that game the system.
Hire more investigators and offer rewards for reporting fraud.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

And they should get those benefits from money in the Social Security DISABILITY Trust Fund. They should NOT get those funds from money in the Social Security RETIREMENT Trust Fund. That money is already promised to those who had it withheld from their paychecks.

The DISABILITY trust fund is way over budget and prone to fraud. Something needs done.

Maybe the money should come from a reduced military budget, a national 1% sales tax, etc. But bankrupting the RETIREMENT fund isn't the way to go.

The discussion should be how to properly/fairly help those truly disabled. Anyone wishing to bankrupt the RETIREMENT fund isn't looking at the big picture but just just playing politics.

People like the OP who think it's ok not to pay taxes really shouldn't have an opinion at all when discussing the distribution of tax monies.


.

You know it is the same bank account right? If you go fuck all crazy with your checking account then your savings account will need to cover it. Not like you get to just close the fed up and we still get SS since it was over there by that building and not over here.

[Vendzilla]

I don't get what the problem with this is? I thought Obamacare was going to take care of everyone?
Anyways, the government has been milking the SSN administration for years, where do you think a lot of the money for deficit came from?

[Va2k]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

And they should get those benefits from money in the Social Security DISABILITY Trust Fund. They should NOT get those funds from money in the Social Security RETIREMENT Trust Fund. That money is already promised to those who had it withheld from their paychecks.

The DISABILITY trust fund is way over budget and prone to fraud. Something needs done.

Maybe the money should come from a reduced military budget, a national 1% sales tax, etc. But bankrupting the RETIREMENT fund isn't the way to go.

The discussion should be how to properly/fairly help those truly disabled. Anyone wishing to bankrupt the RETIREMENT fund isn't looking at the big picture but just just playing politics.

People like the OP who think it's ok not to pay taxes really shouldn't have an opinion at all when discussing the distribution of tax monies.


.

awe I got what you're saying, ("Social Security RETIREMENT Trust Fund") I agree 100% with everything you just wrote. To be honest, to me it shouldn't be that hard to figure out and then set up the correct way to do this. I got ya now.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by slapass

You know it is the same bank account right? If you go fuck all crazy with your checking account then your savings account will need to cover it. Not like you get to just close the fed up and we still get SS since it was over there by that building and not over here.

A better example is multiple checking accounts with one savings account.

The Disability account needs to not go over budget.

The Military/Defense account needs to not go over budget.

The Foreign Aid account ....... Etc, Etc, Etc .......

.

[Bryan G]

Feel bad for the people that need it ligimately. However, there are a ton of people that abuse the system. I see it up here all the time.

[2MuchMark]

Republicans in office do not give a damn about anyone else except themselves.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by **********

Republicans in office do not give a damn about anyone else except themselves.

That's right Mark! You are finally starting to understand the political game!

Oh, wait a minute...you probably think Democrats are different.