Crazy Post Office Rule, wtf?

[Jel]

So the US post office won't send shipments without a surname for individuals, wtf is that about? What possible reason have they come up with for that?

In the UK you only need a dwelling number and postcode, eg:

784,
N17 0AP

with the rest of the postal address being more of an etiquette (which of course is almost always used) than an out and out requirement. What am I missing, just out of curiosity?

[slapass]

Lot of fraud in the USA so they need to know it is going to the person who lives there.

[Markul]

Pretty normal, same thing is required here - unless it's for a business then the company name will do.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by slapass

Lot of fraud in the USA so they need to know it is going to the person who lives there.

that makes no sense, you can put any old name on there, as long as there is a surname... how do they know who lives where etc? And a letter arrives for eg Roger Simpson at xyz address, the post office turn around and say wait... roger doesn't live there! this could be fraud... do not deliver! wtf lol

Fred
address here

is a no-go

Fred Smith
address

Fred Jones
address

Fred Fredericks
address

Fred Abdullah
address

Fred Cheerios
address

all ok. Just seems a dumb 'rule' to me

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Markul

Pretty normal, same thing is required here - unless it's for a business then the company name will do.

where you at mate? and how does eg Prince get his personal mail in the US

[Juicy D. Links]

USPS is known for having heads up their asses

[ruff]

I get mail all the time addressed to: Our Neighbor, Occupant, Resident, etc.

[MrBottomTooth]

Dont try to understand postal workers. It will just hurt your brain.

I had ordered a large movie poster from the US and apparently someone along the way decided they needed to see what was inside the long shipping tube. So instead of opening the end they cut the tube in half. They then used some clear tape to try to join the two pieces of tube together. Needless to say my poster never arrived in pristine condition. The package looked like a set of nunchucks and my poster was like the chain holding the sticks together.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by Jel

In the UK you only need a dwelling number and postcode, eg:

784,
N17 0AP

with the rest of the postal address being more of an etiquette

Royal Mail are very good at coping with incomplete addresses or even when the sender has been completely grasping at straws with something like "the house has got a red door, mulberry road, london"

[Markul]

Originally Posted by Jel

where you at mate? and how does eg Prince get his personal mail in the US

Denmark. If you want to snail mail one of the princes here is how:
Contact - The Danish Monarchy

[TheSquealer]

I would guess it has to do with people sending illegal things in the mail - steroids, drugs, types of fraud etc. and then being able to not prove who was involved.

[MK Ultra]

Mail Isolation Control and Tracking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mail Isolation Control and Tracking (MICT) is an imaging system employed by the United States Postal Service (USPS) that takes photographs of the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States

The NSA has a harder time tracking you if you don't use your full name

[baddog]

What makes you think a first and last name is required to mail in the US? Or do you mean from a foreign country?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by baddog

What makes you think a first and last name is required to mail in the US? Or do you mean from a foreign country?

duh

[mineistaken]

Hmm I never even heard/thought about sending mail (or possibility) without name and surname.
I will check with my post office just out of curiosity
I would venture to say that most countries would require that and it is some kind of weird UK exception, rather than it being just US thing.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I would guess it has to do with people sending illegal things in the mail - steroids, drugs, types of fraud etc. and then being able to not prove who was involved.

it can't be that... you just send it to albert smith or norman jones or joe bloggs... there's no actual check to see who lives where and if the name on the outside matches who lives at the place is there

[Jel]

Originally Posted by MK Ultra

Mail Isolation Control and Tracking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The NSA has a harder time tracking you if you don't use your full name

that's probably the closest to it, but again, it's not like 'they' don't know who lives where, and it does nothing in the way of eg mail being undelivered if the 'wrong' name is on the mail

[Jel]

Originally Posted by baddog

What makes you think a first and last name is required to mail in the US? Or do you mean from a foreign country?

my gfy t-shirt got returned to sender.. and I'm outside the US which is even more bizarre, as why would they give a fuck if a UK addressee (pulled that out my ass, no idea if it's a real word) has an unknown surname?

Though no idea if that's the same for internal US mail obviously, I'd assume so.

[CourtneyR_FFN]

Last time i didn't want to put the name on a package to my friend I just put Awesome Sause and they shipped it.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Hmm I never even heard/thought about sending mail (or possibility) without name and surname.
I will check with my post office just out of curiosity
I would venture to say that most countries would require that and it is some kind of weird UK exception, rather than it being just US thing.

If they do, it's bizarre. If the sender hasn't helped out by putting a surname on the mail, what business is it of the post office?

Typing that though... in this pussy day and age of 'data protection act' to save getting sued if John Smith opens John Jones' letter with car insurance details or smth like that. In fact that's what it has to be. Case closed!

[The Porn Nerd]

"dwelling"?

[Jel]

Originally Posted by CourtneyR_FFN

Last time i didn't want to put the name on a package to my friend I just put Awesome Sause and they shipped it.

yeah I put shit like 'superwoman', 'top bloke' 'grey haired old man' etc when sending shit to buddies. They prolly thought awesome sauce was a company name though if you're in the US

[Jel]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

"dwelling"?

I'm a posh cunt and also lazy as fuck, and didn't want to type house/flat/apartment number. So much for that time saver!

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by Jel

it can't be that... you just send it to albert smith or norman jones or joe bloggs... there's no actual check to see who lives where and if the name on the outside matches who lives at the place is there

Not every rule has to make perfect sense. I'm just saying there is likely justification for it and that its part of a larger set of rules and regulations.

[blackmonsters]

Most people will not accept a shipment that doesn't have a correct name on it.
No name at all is always incorrect.

The post office doesn't want to have to return the shipment and it will be returned most of the time.

Some people who didn't return the package blew up.

[NaughtyVisions]

Originally Posted by Jel

that makes no sense, you can put any old name on there, as long as there is a surname... how do they know who lives where etc? And a letter arrives for eg Roger Simpson at xyz address, the post office turn around and say wait... roger doesn't live there! this could be fraud... do not deliver! wtf lol



all ok. Just seems a dumb 'rule' to me

When you move to a new residence in the US you are supposed to notify your local post office, or, essentially register with the post office. They are supposed to have on file everyone at that address who can receive mail/shipments, based on the info you give them when you notify them. I've only had it happen once, and it depends solely on the specific mail carrier, but they aren't supposed to deliver mail that is addressed to someone not on that list.

My mother in law shipped some stuff to my wife after we had moved. The mail carrier sent it back "return to sender" because they didn't know we were at that address now. I've lived at quite a few different addresses, and that's only happened once. My guess is most carriers don't give a shit and don't want to go through the extra effort of sorting by name after they sort by address.

Originally Posted by ruff

I get mail all the time addressed to: Our Neighbor, Occupant, Resident, etc.

Those are bulk advertising mailings that fall under different guidelines. You can bulk mail through the USPS via their EDDM campaign (Every Door Direct Marketing). You pick the zip codes you want to hit, get the advertising material printed to match their specs, and they'll print the addresses with one of the generic greetings you mentioned, and every mailbox in those zip codes will get your junk mail.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions

When you move to a new residence in the US you are supposed to notify your local post office, or, essentially register with the post office. They are supposed to have on file everyone at that address who can receive mail/shipments, based on the info you give them when you notify them. I've only had it happen once, and it depends solely on the specific mail carrier, but they aren't supposed to deliver mail that is addressed to someone not on that list.

wow, that's insane..

[NaughtyVisions]

Originally Posted by Jel

wow, that's insane..

Yeah, I had never done it to up until that point. After the mother-in-law called up the PostMaster General and cussed him out, the door to door carrier told us 1) that didn't go over very well with the PMG...lol and 2) we wouldn't get any mail that was addressed to us at that address until we registered with the local post office, bills included. So we had to do it. Moved out a year later. Notified anyone important I get mail from of the new address...didn't tell the post office. Fuck em.

[MiamiBoyz]

It's government...do you really think there needs to be any logic, common sense, or actually reason behind it? No

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Jel

my gfy t-shirt got returned to sender.. and I'm outside the US which is even more bizarre, as why would they give a fuck if a UK addressee (pulled that out my ass, no idea if it's a real word) has an unknown surname?

Though no idea if that's the same for internal US mail obviously, I'd assume so.

So it was mailed from the US to wherever you are and you assume it is because of the USPS?

For the record, I just asked my carrier about it and he said he sees mail ALL THE TIME with just mom or dad as the recipient. As long as it has a valid address it will be delivered.

Maybe the problem was at your end.

[dyna mo]

usps does not require a name to ship. customs requires the name. and I suspect UK customs does this, not USA.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by Jel

wow, that's insane..

Like i said above, its likely related to a larger body of rules and regulations. Of course meaningless as no one will verify the name is real etc. But rules are rules and government rules usually make the least amount of sense.

[PaperstreetWinston]

recepient accountability

[dyna mo]

UK has a duty tax on imports right? they need to know who to stick with that charge.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by baddog

So it was mailed from the US to wherever you are and you assume it is because of the USPS?

For the record, I just asked my carrier about it and he said he sees mail ALL THE TIME with just mom or dad as the recipient. As long as it has a valid address it will be delivered.

Maybe the problem was at your end.

"Hey Jel,
It seems the post office will no longer deliver any package without a
first and last name for individuals or a Full Company name. Your
shipment was returned to us."

I assumed 'the post office' was 'the US post office' I mentioned in the OP, yes. I very much doubt the t-shirt arrived in the UK, and the UK post office said fuck this, and returned it back to gfy hq (I did assume gfy hq is in the US, I may well be totally wrong on that). I was wrong in 1979 about something though, so it's possible I'm wrong on that, and it did indeed arrive in the UK, and get sent all the way back.

Also seems that "As long as it has a valid address it will be delivered" isn't quite correct, if you read the other replies in this thread

[Jel]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Like i said above, its likely related to a larger body of rules and regulations. Of course meaningless as no one will verify the name is real etc. But rules are rules and government rules usually make the least amount of sense.

yep, I can see that being so, red tape for the sake of red tape etc.

[NaughtyVisions]

Originally Posted by baddog

So it was mailed from the US to wherever you are and you assume it is because of the USPS?

For the record, I just asked my carrier about it and he said he sees mail ALL THE TIME with just mom or dad as the recipient. As long as it has a valid address it will be delivered.

Maybe the problem was at your end.

I think that depends on how much of an asshole your mail carrier is. Like I said earlier, I only had the problem once.

For reference:

QSG 602 Basic Standards for All Mailing Services - Addressing

The address must include:

Intended recipients name or other designation.
Delivery address (including street number and name (predirectional, suffix, and postdirectional as appropriate), post office box number, rural or highway contract route and box number), and secondary descriptor and number (e.g., suite or apartment number, floor) if needed.
City and state.
ZIP Code or ZIP+4 code where required.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

usps does not require a name to ship. customs requires the name. and I suspect UK customs does this, not USA.

what naughtyvisions has said I reckon mate. Some bloke who didn't get his morning BJ, some woman due on, or some shit like that most likely.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

UK has a duty tax on imports right? they need to know who to stick with that charge.

fred abdullah? Can't see it being that, from memory you get a card/documentation sent through informing you if you have import duty to pay, whether that's 'jel' or 'mr smith' etc.

-------

Though this whole thread has gone deeper than my initial curiosity was I reckon it's the conclusion I reached earlier, it's the only one that makes any real sense, and it's usually about the $, or prevention of loss of it.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions

When you move to a new residence in the US you are supposed to notify your local post office, or, essentially register with the post office.

Really? when did that start? I have NEVER notified the post office that I was the new resident at any home or apartment I have lived in. When goodgirl moved here a couple years ago we did not have to notify the post office that she now lived here.

Originally Posted by Jel

wow, that's insane..

It is also bullshit.

Originally Posted by Jel

"Hey Jel,
It seems the post office will no longer deliver any package without a
first and last name for individuals or a Full Company name. Your
shipment was returned to us."

I assumed 'the post office' was 'the US post office' I mentioned in the OP, yes. I

Don't assume shit; the brainiacs on GFY are not as smart as you seem to think they are.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions

I think that depends on how much of an asshole your mail carrier is. Like I said earlier, I only had the problem once.

For reference:

QSG 602 Basic Standards for All Mailing Services - Addressing

actually, you have to dig into the specific code, that's just a quick reference guide,

here's the specifics:

1.4.2 Complete Address Elements
A complete delivery address includes:

a. Addressee name or other identifier and/or firm name where applicable.

DMM 602 Addressing


I've just proven this to myself via my stamps account. I created a domestic mailing label without a recipient just fine but when I went to create an international label without a recipient, it would not let me.



this is a customs declaration requirement. someone has to declare the package as their's/

[Jel]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

actually, you have to dig into the specific code, that's just a quick reference guide,

here's the specifics:

1.4.2 Complete Address Elements
A complete delivery address includes:

a. Addressee name or other identifier and/or firm name where applicable.

DMM 602 Addressing


I've just proven this to myself via my stamps account. I created a domestic mailing label without a recipient just fine but when I went to create an international label without a recipient, it would not let me.



this is a customs declaration requirement. someone has to declare the package as their's/

will it let you with just a forename?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Jel

fred abdullah? Can't see it being that, from memory you get a card/documentation sent through informing you if you have import duty to pay, whether that's 'jel' or 'mr smith' etc.

-------

Though this whole thread has gone deeper than my initial curiosity was I reckon it's the conclusion I reached earlier, it's the only one that makes any real sense, and it's usually about the $, or prevention of loss of it.

that's a recipient. if they need to collect the duty and fred abdullah is not at that addy to pay the duty tax, then that package is not delivered.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

that's a recipient. if they need to collect the duty and fred abdullah is not at that addy to pay the duty tax, then that package is not delivered.

right, and I'm the recipient. If they send to 'jel' and I'm uncontactable to send the duty to them, the package is not delivered. you've lost me somewhat

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Jel

will it let you with just a forename?

I just checked that, it assumes 1 word is a business name and puts it in the business name field and leaves the personal name fields blank. Which makes sense, if a business is importing items, it's the business responsible for the duty tax, not necc specific person, so just the business needs to be alerted of the duty.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Jel

right, and I'm the recipient. If they send to 'jel' and I'm uncontactable to send the duty to them, the package is not delivered. you've lost me somewhat

not sure what you're lost on. the only thing I'm saying is USPS doesn't require a recipient name. UK customs does.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

not sure what you're lost on. the only thing I'm saying is USPS doesn't require a recipient name. UK customs does.

nah, uk customs doesn't, to the point of requiring a surname (the no name at all in the UK was just an aside in the OP) any duty owed, they keep the original package, and send a generic invoice to the name stated, and the address. I send payment, then get the package

obviously with actual goods that need duty paid, ie any actual purchase, it's highly unlikely the label wouldn't have a full name due to the way you have to enter shipping/billing details, but quite likely you'd have 'Mr. J Smith' or whatever, and I've had stuff sent from abroad to the UK without my full name as the addressee. Jel being the 'name or identifier' I guess.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I just checked that, it assumes 1 word is a business name and puts it in the business name field and leaves the personal name fields blank. Which makes sense, if a business is importing items, it's the business responsible for the duty tax, not necc specific person, so just the business needs to be alerted of the duty.

so the label just shows

name
address

right, as if it was handwritten? So joe schmoe down at the post office has no idea whether the label left the personal name fields blank, and it printed out a business name, surely?

a) how the fuck did this thread get so involved lol
b) still seems a really dumb 'rule'; unenforceable, prone to error, and ultimately down to whether john got head or jane is due her period

[Jel]

^ sorry not 'unenforceable', I meant the other word I'm too tired to think of right now (change it to 'shitty' for the time being)

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Jel

nah, uk customs doesn't, to the point of requiring a surname (the no name at all in the UK was just an aside in the OP) any duty owed, they keep the original package, and send a generic invoice to the name stated, and the address. I send payment, then get the package

obviously with actual goods that need duty paid, ie any actual purchase, it's highly unlikely the label wouldn't have a full name due to the way you have to enter shipping/billing details, but quite likely you'd have 'Mr. J Smith' or whatever, and I've had stuff sent from abroad to the UK without my full name as the addressee. Jel being the 'name or identifier' I guess.

the mystery of the mail!