9 Things You Think You Know About Jesus That Are Probably Wrong

[Grapesoda]

Evidence points to some startling conclusions about what the historical Jesus was like?if he existed at all.

By Valerie Tarico / AlterNet

February 25, 2015


Jesus has been described as the best known figure in history, and also the least known. If you mentioned the name ?Jesus? and someone asked Jesus who, you might blink. Or laugh. Even people who don?t think Jesus was God mostly believe they know a fair bit about him. You might be surprised that some of your most basic assumptions about Jesus are probably wrong.

We have no record of anything that was written about Jesus by eyewitnesses or other contemporaries during the time he would have lived, or for decades thereafter. Nonetheless, based on archeological digs and artifacts, ancient texts and art, and even forensic science, we know a good deal about the time and culture in which the New Testament is set. This evidence points to some startling conclusions about who Jesus likely was?and wasn?t.

1. Married, not single. When an ancient papyrus scrap was found in 2014 referring to the wife of Jesus, some Catholics and Evangelicals were scandalized. But unlike the Catholic Church, Jews have no tradition of celibacy among religious leaders. Jesus and his disciples would have been practicing Jews, and all great rabbis we know of were married. A rabbi being celibate would have been so unusual that some modern writers have argued Jesus must have been gay. But a number of ancient texts, including the canonical New Testament, point to a special relationship between Mary Magdalene and Jesus. The Gospel of Phillip says, ?[Jesus] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth.?

2. Cropped hair, not long.Jewish men at the time of Christ did not wear their hair long. A Roman triumphal arch of the time period depicts Jewish slaves with short hair. In the Apostle Paul?s first letter to the Corinthians, he addresses male hair length. ?Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair, it is degrading to him?? (1 Corinthians 11:14 NRSV). During the 1960s, conservative Christians quoted this verse to express their disgust against the hippy movement and to label it anti-Christian.

3. Hung on a pole, not necessarily a cross.For centuries scholars have known that the Greek New Testament word ?stauros,? which is translated into English as cross, can refer to a device of several shapes, commonly a single upright pole, ?torture stake? or even tree. The Romans did not have a standard way of crucifying prisoners, and Josephus tells us that during the siege of Jerusalem, soldiers nailed or tied their victims in a variety of positions. Early Christians may have centered on the vertical pole with a crossbeam because it echoed the Egyptian ankh, a symbol of life, or the Sumerian symbol for Tammuz, or because it simply was more artistically and symbolically distinctive than the alternatives. Imagine millions of people wearing a golden pole on a chain around their necks.

4. Short, not tall. The typical Jewish man at the time of the Roman Empire would have been just over five feet tall, which makes this a best guess for the height of Jesus. That he is typically depicted taller derives from the mental challenge people have distinguishing physical stature from other kinds of stature. Great men are called ?big men? and ?larger than life.? In ancient times they often were assigned divine parentage and miraculous births, and the idea that Jesus was uniquely divine has created a strong pull over time to depict him as taller than is likely. A good illustration of this is the Shroud of Turin, which is just one of many such Jesus-shrouds that circulated during medieval times and which bears the image of a man closer to six feet in height.

5. Born in a house, not a stable. The miraculous birth story of Jesus is a late, maybe second-century addition to the Bible, and it contains many fascinating mythic elements and peculiarities. But the idea that Jesus was born in a stable was added to the Christmas story even later. In the original narrative, Joseph and Mary probably would have stayed with relatives, and the phrase ?no room for them in the inn (gr: kataluma)? is better translated ?no room for them in the upper room." Later storytellers did not understand that people of the time might bring animals into their ground floor, as in Swiss housebarns, and they assumed that the presence of a manger implied a stable.

6. Named Joshua, not Jesus. The name Joshua (in Hebrew Y'hoshuʿa meaning ?deliverance? or ?salvation?), was common among Jews in the Ancient Near East as it is today. Joshua and Jesus are the same name, and are translated differently in our modern Bible to distinguish Jesus from the Joshua of the Old Testament, who leads the Hebrew people to the Promised Land. In actuality, the relationship between the two figures is fascinating and important. Some scholars believe that the New Testament gospels are mostly historicized and updated retellings of the more ancient Joshua story, with episodes interwoven from stories of Elisha and Elijah and Moses. A modern parallel can be found in the way Hollywood writers have reworked Shakespearean tropes and plot elements into dozens of modern movies (though for a very different purpose).

7. Number of apostles (12) from astrology, not history. Whether Jesus had 12 disciples who were above his other devotees is an open question. The number 12 was considered auspicious by many ancient peoples, and the fellowship of 12 disciples, who are depicted in Da Vinci?s The Last Supper, likely get their count from the same source as the 12 signs of the zodiac and 12 months of the year. Astrotheology or star worship preceded the Hebrew religion, and shaped both the Bible and Western religions more broadly. One might point to the 12 Olympian gods or 12 sons of Odin, or the 12 days of Christmas or 12 ?legitimate? successors to the prophet Mohammed. But since the Gospels echo the story of Joshua, the 12 apostles most closely parallel the 12 tribes of Israel.

8. Prophecies recalled, not foretold. Even people who aren?t too sure about the divinity of Jesus sometimes think that the way he fulfilled prophecies was a bit spooky, like the writings of Nostradamus. In reality, Scooby Doo could solve this one in a single episode with three pieces of information: First, Old Testament prophecies were well known to first-century Jews, and a messianic figure who wanted to fulfill some of these prophecies could simply do so. For example, in the book of Matthew, Jesus seeks a donkey to ride into Jerusalem ?that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet? (Matthew 21:4). Second, ?gospels? are a genre of devotional literature rather than objective histories, which means that the authors had every reason to shape their stories around earlier predictions. Third, scholars now believe that some Bible texts once thought to be prophecies (for example in the Book of Revelation) actually relate to events that were current or past at the time of writing.

9. Some Jesus quotes not from Jesus; others uncertain. Lists of favorite Jesus sayings abound online. Some of the most popular are the Beatitudes (blessed are the meek, etc.) or the story of the woman caught in adultery (let he who is without sin cast the first stone) or the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you, which, we are told, sums up the Law and the Prophets).

Which words are actually from Jesus? This question has been debated fiercely by everyone from third-century Catholic Councils to the 20th-century Jesus Seminar. Even Thomas Jefferson weighed in, but much remains unclear. The New Testament Gospels were written long after Jesus would have died, and no technology existed with which to record his teachings in real time, unless he wrote them down himself, which he didn?t.

We can be confident that at least some of the wise and timeless words and catchy proverbs attributed to Jesus are actually from earlier or later thinkers. For example, the Golden Rule was articulated before the time of Christ by the Rabbi Hillel the Elder, who similarly said it was the ?whole Torah.? By contrast, the much-loved story of the woman caught in adultery doesn?t appear in manuscripts until the fourth century. Attributing words (or whole texts) to a famous person was common in the Ancient Near East, because it gave those words extra weight. Small wonder then that so many genuinely valuable insights ended up, in one way or another, paired with the name of Jesus.

The person of Jesus, if indeed there was such a person, is shrouded in the fog of history leaving us only with a set of hunches and traditions that far too often are treated as knowledge. The ?facts? I have listed here are largely trivial; it doesn?t really matter whether Jesus was tall or short, or how he cut his hair. But it does matter, tremendously, that ?facts? people claim to know about how Jesus saw himself, and God and humanity are equally tenuous.

The teachings attributed to Jesus mix enduring spiritual and moral insights with irrelevancies and Judaica and bits of Iron Age culture, some of which are truly awful. That leaves each of us, from the privileged vantage of the 21st century, with both a right and a responsibility to consider the evidence and make our own best guesses about what is real and how we should then live. A good starting place might be a little more recognition that we don?t know nearly as much as we?d like to think, and a lot of what we know for sure is probably wrong.

[Harmon]

TLDR

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Harmon

TLICR

here I fixed it for you

[MiamiBoyz]

[420]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

Evidence points to some startling conclusions about what the historical Jesus was like—if he existed at all.

By Valerie Tarico / AlterNet

February 25, 2015


Jesus has been described as the best known figure in history, and also the least known. If you mentioned the name “Jesus” and someone asked Jesus who, you might blink. Or laugh. Even people who don’t think Jesus was God mostly believe they know a fair bit about him. You might be surprised that some of your most basic assumptions about Jesus are probably wrong.

We have no record of anything that was written about Jesus by eyewitnesses or other contemporaries during the time he would have lived, or for decades thereafter. Nonetheless, based on archeological digs and artifacts, ancient texts and art, and even forensic science, we know a good deal about the time and culture in which the New Testament is set. This evidence points to some startling conclusions about who Jesus likely was—and wasn’t.

1. Married, not single. When an ancient papyrus scrap was found in 2014 referring to the wife of Jesus, some Catholics and Evangelicals were scandalized. But unlike the Catholic Church, Jews have no tradition of celibacy among religious leaders. Jesus and his disciples would have been practicing Jews, and all great rabbis we know of were married. A rabbi being celibate would have been so unusual that some modern writers have argued Jesus must have been gay. But a number of ancient texts, including the canonical New Testament, point to a special relationship between Mary Magdalene and Jesus. The Gospel of Phillip says, “[Jesus] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth.”

2. Cropped hair, not long.Jewish men at the time of Christ did not wear their hair long. A Roman triumphal arch of the time period depicts Jewish slaves with short hair. In the Apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he addresses male hair length. “Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair, it is degrading to him?” (1 Corinthians 11:14 NRSV). During the 1960s, conservative Christians quoted this verse to express their disgust against the hippy movement and to label it anti-Christian.

3. Hung on a pole, not necessarily a cross.For centuries scholars have known that the Greek New Testament word “stauros,” which is translated into English as cross, can refer to a device of several shapes, commonly a single upright pole, “torture stake” or even tree. The Romans did not have a standard way of crucifying prisoners, and Josephus tells us that during the siege of Jerusalem, soldiers nailed or tied their victims in a variety of positions. Early Christians may have centered on the vertical pole with a crossbeam because it echoed the Egyptian ankh, a symbol of life, or the Sumerian symbol for Tammuz, or because it simply was more artistically and symbolically distinctive than the alternatives. Imagine millions of people wearing a golden pole on a chain around their necks.

4. Short, not tall. The typical Jewish man at the time of the Roman Empire would have been just over five feet tall, which makes this a best guess for the height of Jesus. That he is typically depicted taller derives from the mental challenge people have distinguishing physical stature from other kinds of stature. Great men are called “big men” and “larger than life.” In ancient times they often were assigned divine parentage and miraculous births, and the idea that Jesus was uniquely divine has created a strong pull over time to depict him as taller than is likely. A good illustration of this is the Shroud of Turin, which is just one of many such Jesus-shrouds that circulated during medieval times and which bears the image of a man closer to six feet in height.

5. Born in a house, not a stable. The miraculous birth story of Jesus is a late, maybe second-century addition to the Bible, and it contains many fascinating mythic elements and peculiarities. But the idea that Jesus was born in a stable was added to the Christmas story even later. In the original narrative, Joseph and Mary probably would have stayed with relatives, and the phrase “no room for them in the inn (gr: kataluma)” is better translated “no room for them in the upper room." Later storytellers did not understand that people of the time might bring animals into their ground floor, as in Swiss housebarns, and they assumed that the presence of a manger implied a stable.

6. Named Joshua, not Jesus. The name Joshua (in Hebrew Y'hoshuʿa meaning “deliverance” or “salvation”), was common among Jews in the Ancient Near East as it is today. Joshua and Jesus are the same name, and are translated differently in our modern Bible to distinguish Jesus from the Joshua of the Old Testament, who leads the Hebrew people to the Promised Land. In actuality, the relationship between the two figures is fascinating and important. Some scholars believe that the New Testament gospels are mostly historicized and updated retellings of the more ancient Joshua story, with episodes interwoven from stories of Elisha and Elijah and Moses. A modern parallel can be found in the way Hollywood writers have reworked Shakespearean tropes and plot elements into dozens of modern movies (though for a very different purpose).

7. Number of apostles (12) from astrology, not history. Whether Jesus had 12 disciples who were above his other devotees is an open question. The number 12 was considered auspicious by many ancient peoples, and the fellowship of 12 disciples, who are depicted in Da Vinci’s The Last Supper, likely get their count from the same source as the 12 signs of the zodiac and 12 months of the year. Astrotheology or star worship preceded the Hebrew religion, and shaped both the Bible and Western religions more broadly. One might point to the 12 Olympian gods or 12 sons of Odin, or the 12 days of Christmas or 12 “legitimate” successors to the prophet Mohammed. But since the Gospels echo the story of Joshua, the 12 apostles most closely parallel the 12 tribes of Israel.

8. Prophecies recalled, not foretold. Even people who aren’t too sure about the divinity of Jesus sometimes think that the way he fulfilled prophecies was a bit spooky, like the writings of Nostradamus. In reality, Scooby Doo could solve this one in a single episode with three pieces of information: First, Old Testament prophecies were well known to first-century Jews, and a messianic figure who wanted to fulfill some of these prophecies could simply do so. For example, in the book of Matthew, Jesus seeks a donkey to ride into Jerusalem “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet” (Matthew 21:4). Second, “gospels” are a genre of devotional literature rather than objective histories, which means that the authors had every reason to shape their stories around earlier predictions. Third, scholars now believe that some Bible texts once thought to be prophecies (for example in the Book of Revelation) actually relate to events that were current or past at the time of writing.

9. Some Jesus quotes not from Jesus; others uncertain. Lists of favorite Jesus sayings abound online. Some of the most popular are the Beatitudes (blessed are the meek, etc.) or the story of the woman caught in adultery (let he who is without sin cast the first stone) or the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you, which, we are told, sums up the Law and the Prophets).

Which words are actually from Jesus? This question has been debated fiercely by everyone from third-century Catholic Councils to the 20th-century Jesus Seminar. Even Thomas Jefferson weighed in, but much remains unclear. The New Testament Gospels were written long after Jesus would have died, and no technology existed with which to record his teachings in real time, unless he wrote them down himself, which he didn’t.

We can be confident that at least some of the wise and timeless words and catchy proverbs attributed to Jesus are actually from earlier or later thinkers. For example, the Golden Rule was articulated before the time of Christ by the Rabbi Hillel the Elder, who similarly said it was the “whole Torah.” By contrast, the much-loved story of the woman caught in adultery doesn’t appear in manuscripts until the fourth century. Attributing words (or whole texts) to a famous person was common in the Ancient Near East, because it gave those words extra weight. Small wonder then that so many genuinely valuable insights ended up, in one way or another, paired with the name of Jesus.

The person of Jesus, if indeed there was such a person, is shrouded in the fog of history leaving us only with a set of hunches and traditions that far too often are treated as knowledge. The “facts” I have listed here are largely trivial; it doesn’t really matter whether Jesus was tall or short, or how he cut his hair. But it does matter, tremendously, that “facts” people claim to know about how Jesus saw himself, and God and humanity are equally tenuous.

The teachings attributed to Jesus mix enduring spiritual and moral insights with irrelevancies and Judaica and bits of Iron Age culture, some of which are truly awful. That leaves each of us, from the privileged vantage of the 21st century, with both a right and a responsibility to consider the evidence and make our own best guesses about what is real and how we should then live. A good starting place might be a little more recognition that we don’t know nearly as much as we’d like to think, and a lot of what we know for sure is probably wrong.

I only read the bold parts.

It's like when you see a movie that's based on a true story. This might have happened but all the details were made up to sound more interesting.

[Robbie]

So we have the "facts" wrong about a superstition?

To me it's kinda like saying: "No, no...you've got the details about The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy all wrong!"

[The Porn Nerd]

Organzied religion - whether it be Christianity, Judaism, Egyption or Sumarian priests, it matters not - ALL organized religion is about one thing and one thing only: control.

HOW to control a population that is scattered, tribal, spends most of its' time just trying to survive, eat and find shelter? Get everyone to believe the same thing and gather at the same place (church/temples). Done! Great! NOW we can control people and actually get some shit done.

That's it folks. End of story. NONE of it is 'real' because it's not meant to be 'real'. It's meant to control people, to get the herd moving in the same direction. So whatever magical story accomplishes this, great!

To have a connection with "God" and to explore spirituality you absolutely do not need other human beings to tell you how to feel, explore or pray.

[SuckOnThis]

[420]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Organzied religion - whether it be Christianity, Judaism, Egyption or Sumarian priests, it matters not - ALL organized religion is about one thing and one thing only: control.

HOW to control a population that is scattered, tribal, spends most of its' time just trying to survive, eat and find shelter? Get everyone to believe the same thing and gather at the same place (church/temples). Done! Great! NOW we can control people and actually get some shit done.

That's it folks. End of story. NONE of it is 'real' because it's not meant to be 'real'. It's meant to control people, to get the herd moving in the same direction. So whatever magical story accomplishes this, great!

To have a connection with "God" and to explore spirituality you absolutely do not need other human beings to tell you how to feel, explore or pray.

Earliest forms of religion were used by people trying to survive. They would do anything to ensure a better harvest as that meant their people would not starve to death. Not sure how it went from that to telling people how to behave on earth in order to live eternally in a better place.

[Markul]

Religious people crack me up.

[SilentKnight]

Next up - how Moses really didn't look much like Charlton Heston.

[xdjerb]

I'm new here and never thought I would come across a religion discussion. anyway have a nice day guys

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by xdjerb

I'm new here and never thought I would come across a religion discussion. anyway have a nice day guys

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by 420

Earliest forms of religion were used by people trying to survive. They would do anything to ensure a better harvest as that meant their people would not starve to death. Not sure how it went from that to telling people how to behave on earth in order to live eternally in a better place.

awe of nature started with hunter gatherers, not the 'harvest... in those days healers, priest, shaman were self selected .. wasn't until 'agriculture' that committees selected the priest and population control began to be administered

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Next up - how Moses really didn't look much like Charlton Heston.

okay now you're fucking with my hero's

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So we have the "facts" wrong about a superstition?

To me it's kinda like saying: "No, no...you've got the details about The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy all wrong!"

do NOT fuck with the Easter Bunny

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by 420

I only read the bold parts.

It's like when you see a movie that's based on a true story. This might have happened but all the details were made up to sound more interesting.

greatest STORY ever told for sure

[420]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

awe of nature started with hunter gatherers, not the 'harvest... in those days healers, priest, shaman were self selected .. wasn't until 'agriculture' that committees selected the priest and population control began to be administered

You're probably right but the point is still there. Religion somehow evolved from praying for food and survival to praying for forgiveness.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

okay now you're fucking with my hero's

Hero?!!

You know how many aquatic species died when that asshat parted the Red Sea? It was an unprecedented ecological disaster in the area at the time.

Or did that not happen the way they say, too?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by 420

You're probably right but the point is still there. Religion somehow evolved from praying for food and survival to praying for forgiveness.

that's only a Christian thing....

[dyna mo]

Deep down inside each and everyone of us is the fundamental idea of God.

-Bill W.

[420]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

that's only a Christian thing....

I'm pretty sure forgiveness is a common theme across all modern eastern and western religions.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Deep down inside each and everyone of us is the fundamental idea of God.

-Bill W.

Deep down inside each and everyone of us is an impending bowel movement.

[fetishwealth]

Ohhh jeebus

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Next up - how Moses really didn't look much like Charlton Heston.

Take your hands off my Bible you damn dirty Egyptian apes!!

My favorite part about the Exodus story? Thousands of Jews wandering around the desert lost - for 40 years! And surviving on some weird white substance that magically fell from the sky to feed those lost fuckers - for 40 years! Yup, happened exactly that way.

Come to think of it: There's no historical David beyond the Jews own stories of David so the Jews really have zero historical claims on Israel.

Oh fun stuff. LOL

[fetishwealth]

Originally Posted by 420

Earliest forms of religion were used by people trying to survive. They would do anything to ensure a better harvest as that meant their people would not starve to death. Not sure how it went from that to telling people how to behave on earth in order to live eternally in a better place.

That easy to see via logical progression.

dont do this or dont do that (anal sex) or god will punish you with bad crop.

Its all about guilt.

[fetishwealth]

Jesus was down wit O.P.P?

[420]

Originally Posted by fetishwealth

That easy to see via logical progression.

dont do this or dont do that (anal sex) or god will punish you with bad crop.

Its all about guilt.

That makes sense. Perhaps religion has always been used to control people through guilt.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

My favorite part about the Exodus story? Thousands of Jews wandering around the desert lost - for 40 years! And surviving on some weird white substance that magically fell from the sky to feed those lost fuckers - for 40 years! Yup, happened exactly that way.

Cocaine spilling from the chariots of the gods.

Don't ask me - I'm still stymied over the logistics of Noah's Ark.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Take your hands off my Bible you damn dirty Egyptian apes!!

My favorite part about the Exodus story? Thousands of Jews wandering around the desert lost - for 40 years! And surviving on some weird white substance that magically fell from the sky to feed those lost fuckers - for 40 years! Yup, happened exactly that way.

Come to think of it: There's no historical David beyond the Jews own stories of David so the Jews really have zero historical claims on Israel.

Oh fun stuff. LOL

the number 40 is not an exact number...it's refers to a long time... it rained for 40 days and 40 nights... etc.. the jews were in isreal long before david... (death of Moses to the time of Solomon's construction ... From Abraham to David there were 14 generations) just a smaller area.... not 1 square inch of this planet that isn't contested ground ... and the truth be told there was never a Palestine

[Best-In-BC]

All a story made up of peaces of history, 99% chance Jesus never existed !

[poncabare]

Fairy tales

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Deep down inside each and everyone of us is an impending bowel movement.

yes, both occur naturally, I'm glad association helps you grasp the fact.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the number 40 is not an exact number...it's refers to a long time... it rained for 40 days and 40 nights... etc.. the jews were in isreal long before david... (death of Moses to the time of Solomon's construction ... From Abraham to David there were 14 generations) just a smaller area.... not 1 square inch of this planet that isn't contested ground ... and the truth be told there was never a Palestine

True. It just amazes me that people all over the Middle East have been fighting for centuries over....dirt. Sand, desert, dirt and endless....sand. Have at it my semitic brothers!! LOL

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

True. It just amazes me that people all over the Middle East have been fighting for centuries over....dirt. Sand, desert, dirt and endless....sand. Have at it my semitic brothers!! LOL

yeah but unlike the Arabs, Israel hasn't decaled that they will kill EVERY Arab man, woman and child

[charlie g]

Jesus enjoys this thread~

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

yeah but unlike the Arabs, Israel hasn't decaled that they will kill EVERY Arab man, woman and child

All I know? Ain't MY problem. Stay there in the endless desert and kill each other for all I care, just stay away from me.

[GAMEFINEST]

jesus Christ man

[RyuLion]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So we have the "facts" wrong about a superstition?

To me it's kinda like saying: "No, no...you've got the details about The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy all wrong!"