News Greece Looks Like It Will Default - What Happens Next?..

[EddyTheDog]

I have always said that the EU was not going to be easy - I doubt anyone ever did - Why are people surprised that this is happening?..

Is this the excuse the haters have been looking for?....

[TheSquealer]

I always thought it couldn't work. For it to work, everyone has to be on the same page and always thinking about collective interests. This goes against the nature of man.
People more or less organize like this...
Immediately family -> Extended Family -> tribe/groups -> community -> city -> states/regions -> nation -> country/countrymen -> other

No one is going to more "other" to the front of the line.

[nico-t]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I always thought it couldn't work. For it to work, everyone has to be on the same page and always thinking about collective interests. This goes against the nature of man.
People more or less organize like this...
Immediately family -> Extended Family -> tribe/groups -> community -> city -> states/regions -> nation -> country/countrymen -> other

No one is going to more "other" to the front of the line.

the reason is simple greed that it doesn't work. It could have worked if they didn't sell the euro too expensive firstly, and secondly prices went times 2 almost overnight in many many countries. This is the core why the people started hating the euro from the get go. Everyone was fucked, and nobody could do anything about it. Then every country needed to pay those fuckers in Brussels huge amounts of money, and for what? For a couple of European common laws being made once every 5 years. I'm sure the rest goes to the top people who already made their fortune with the exchange in the start.

In short, the euro is a pet project from top people who really made a shitload from it, and a failed project for the people. I hope it will go to shit.

[mikesouth]

Maybe Theo can pull together some Greek "Investors"....LOL

[The Porn Nerd]

What will happen next?
Greek whores will be giving 1/2 price blowjobs, that's what.

[DAMNMAN]

Bitcoin bitches!!!

[DraX]

I have thought for a long time that the EU is a shit project that does not go hand in hand with the people of europe

So much money just thrown away on........SHIT.

Europe would be a happier place without it.

Now to greece, greece especially should never been given membership into the EU in the first place. They would like the rest of europe be alot happier today if they never did.

They could keep working less than the rest of europe and no need to catching up with everything else.

It is beyond me that the high earning EU officials never could see this, which on the other hand is so clear to me. But I guess they are just like the rest of the european polticians, they have earplugs and are blindfolded, they are only listening and seeing one thing, their own mind and vision. Damn lowlifes of the human race. Completely incompetent!

[wehateporn]

[Robbie]

My hope is that people will look at what happens when a country tries to give people too much free money and "free" services.
Perhaps that will change people's minds about always wanting the govt. here in the U.S. to take care of them like they are babies.

Socialism always ends up bankrupt.

[Biggy]

I bet they find a way to kick the can down the road for a little bit - my bet is a very last minute deal extension - but ultimately, the EU will not survive, not in it's current form, with debtor nations that can't devalue their currency.

I think Greece should leave the EU. Austerity doesn't work and is not right for them, and I can't blame the more responsible parties of Europe for not wanting to pay for others. When you're in a hole, you actually need deficit spending to help get you out of it - i.e. stimulus. Austerity may make Germany happy, but it won't make the Greeks happy.

They need to be off the EU currency and onto their own weaker currency. They'll suffer for a bit, but the weak currency will eventually make things more attractive in Greece from outside investors, and in time they will climb out of the hole. For now they are just stuck.

Everyone who is sitting on Greek debt will just have to write it off, and in all reality, some of the other debtor nations should probably bail on the EU as well. That debt is going to have to be written off at some point, may as well get it over with when interest rates are low.

[ianmoone332000]

Hopefully Greece will get lucky and get out of it all together and start again

[wehateporn]

[pimpmaster9000]

[wehateporn]

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Perhaps that will change people's minds about always wanting the govt. here in the U.S. to take care of them like they are babies.

Socialism always ends up bankrupt.

I don't hold out much hope for that Robbie

[RummyBoy]

From a news source: "When Mr. Tsipras spoke, he said the problem of Greece was not a Greek problem but a European one. Well, that's right. If you owe someone a lot, then it is already not your problem but the problem of the one you owe — and that's an absolutely correct approach," Putin said.

I think it's the same old joke:

"If I owe you a million, I have a problem. If I owe you a billion, you have a problem!"

Anyhow, sooner or later Greek gets kicked out. I imagine that one of the main reason it won't happen now Is because the euro people are not 100% certain about the limitations they engineered to avoid contagion..... is it not correct?

[nico-t]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

[SekobA]

They are going down as titanic did

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My hope is that people will look at what happens when a country tries to give people too much free money and "free" services.
Perhaps that will change people's minds about always wanting the govt. here in the U.S. to take care of them like they are babies.

Socialism always ends up bankrupt.

Hope springs eternal, I guess. The odds against it are worse than Paul Markham's conversion ratios.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Maybe Theo can pull together some Greek "Investors"

Theo who? Theo popadopalopalis?

No chance, he went round the corner for a donner kebab....

[MaDalton]

as someone being old enough to know the times before Euro and Schengen I say fuck you to all the kids that only whine about the EU - you idiots have no clue what you are talking about

and as much as I like Greece as a country and my greek friends - they are responsible for their own shit. Take an example from others that pulled themselves out like Ireland, Slovakia, Estonia etc instead of crying about how bad everyone treats you

[Paul&John]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

as someone being old enough to know the times before Euro and Schengen I say fuck you to all the kids that only whine about the EU - you idiots have no clue what you are talking about

and as much as I like Greece as a country and my greek friends - they are responsible for their own shit. Take an example from others that pulled themselves out like Ireland, Slovakia, Estonia etc instead of crying about how bad everyone treats you

[RR Productions]

I'm spanish living in Spain and I hate the UE, I hate this fucking euro currency for my country, my country like Greece is broke. Very hard to survive here.
Europe is not like USA. We are a melting pot of cultures, languages and ways of thinking, even in a same country like the mine there are 4 official languages. It is not the same a german than a spanish, portuguese, french, greek or a latvian.
Many different economies depending on the country therefore we can't have the same euro currency!!

[TisMe]

If Greece goes it will be the tip of the iceberg.

Italy, Spain and Portugal will likely follow.

Not going to be pretty or fun.

[Manfap]

Greece rigged their books to get in in the first place.
They should never have been admitted.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Socialism always ends up bankrupt.

Yep, just look at those Scandi countries.
All bankrupt..

[spads]

Originally Posted by RR Productions

I'm spanish living in Spain and I hate the UE, I hate this fucking euro currency for my country, my country like Greece is broke. Very hard to survive here.
Europe is not like USA. We are a melting pot of cultures, languages and ways of thinking, even in a same country like the mine there are 4 official languages. It is not the same a german than a spanish, portuguese, french, greek or a latvian.
Many different economies depending on the country therefore we can't have the same euro currency!!

Yeah the last way I'd describe the US is a melting pot...lmao

[EddyTheDog]

Originally Posted by Manfap

Greece rigged their books to get in in the first place.
They should never have been admitted.



Yep, just look at those Scandi countries.
All bankrupt..

Greece is one of those counties that look at you suspiciously if you try and pay taxes - That's the real problem - Spain is the same I am afraid...

[Bryan G]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My hope is that people will look at what happens when a country tries to give people too much free money and "free" services.
Perhaps that will change people's minds about always wanting the govt. here in the U.S. to take care of them like they are babies.

Socialism always ends up bankrupt.

Ya Norway is in terrible shape........

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog

Greece is one of those counties that look at you suspiciously if you try and pay taxes - That's the real problem - Spain is the same I am afraid...

They have mastered the art of avoiding taxes, every greek i know admits that. Their argument is: the government mismanages the money anyways and therefore doesnt deserve it.

On the other hand they have the highest % of state employees - goverment jobs were given in exchange for votes. All those want to be paid from money they cheat from the government in the first place.

In Greece you have to pay tax on your house once you finish it - now you dont wonder anymore why so many houses were never competely finished. Just one example.

Things need to be fundamentally changed, no greek goverment was willing to do that yet.

[editeur]

I doubt EU would allow it to default. Would be too big blow to the Super Europe project, too much losses on De and Fr banks, exposed to Greek loans. After all the task is to squeeze from Greece as much as possible, stripe it off its assets and give the assets to multinational corporations and investment banks.


If they do default:
- Greece will have to ditch Euro and return to Drachma, tie all the internal state expenses, such as pensions, police, army and other state worker wages etc to Drakhma, convert Euro deposits in banks to Drachma deposits
- Temporary capital controls, so people would not be able to wire Euros from Greek banks to another countries
- Devaluation of Drachma, they will exchange Euro to Drachma 1:1 while the capital controls is on, then, after the process is done Drakhma will devalue 1:2-1:10 to Euro, along with all the nominated in Drakhma wages and internal debts. Further innflation, probably up to 2 digits/year for a couple of years.
- Imports will get too expensive, this should prop up domestic production. Greece produces enough food, so there should not be hunger.
- Exports will be more profitable (wages are lower), including tourism, where hotel prices would be still nominated in Euro.
- This would allow Greece to balance its books somehow and get some investment - it would be more profitable to do stuff in Greece as wages would be lower than in Eurozone. In a few years they will be ok, just like Iceland is now, who got through banks bancrupcy a few years ago. But Icelend had its own currency.
- EU will try to actively punish Greece further, as much as possible, to teach a lesson to other financially weaker EU states, such as ES or PT, who may follow suit if Greece will get well. How well - it would depend if Greece could get some initial money and investment support from elsewhere outside of EU.
- If Greece will be ok, I'd expect Spain to follow the Greece. Especially because it looks like that spanish recovery is a fake to make people not vote for Podemos this autumn, and the true state of spanish economy would be revealed after the elections, next winter.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Ya Norway is in terrible shape........

"Scandinavian countries have certain socialist characteristics such as high taxes and extensive welfare systems. However, these countries have relatively capitalistic markets. Scandinavian businesses are mostly free from regulation, nationalization and protectionism."

Note the "mostly free from regulation" part. That makes a HUGE difference to businesses when the govt. isn't tying their hands.

I would also be have to assume that the wealthiest people & corporations in Norway are just like the wealthiest people all over the world. And though the tax rate may be high...they NEVER pay that much.

Just like in the U.S. back in the day when the tax rate was super high...nobody ever actually paid that rate.

Only an idiot wouldn't be smart enough to hire great accountants and find a way to preserve their wealth. And I would hazard a guess that the super rich in Norway are not idiots.

Since you and I aren't anywhere close to breathing that rarefied air...you probably didn't consider that.

[romeo22]

They will drown down as their public costs are more then they can earn

[lezinterracial]

Bump, May get crazy at the Greek banks on Monday. Maybe an emergency bank holiday called.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My hope is that people will look at what happens when a country tries to give people too much free money and "free" services.
Perhaps that will change people's minds about always wanting the govt. here in the U.S. to take care of them like they are babies.

Socialism always ends up bankrupt.

Services aren't free. Tax payers pay for them. Health, education, policing, justice, should never be in the hands of private enterprise. Would you like Comcast, Times Warner, etc. To run and control the Internet?

The Common Market is good.

A Federal Europe is doomed to fail, and that's where the politicians and Bureaucrats are determined to take Europe.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I would also be have to assume that the wealthiest people & corporations in Norway are just like the wealthiest people all over the world. And though the tax rate may be high...they NEVER pay that much.

Just like in the U.S. back in the day when the tax rate was super high...nobody ever actually paid that rate.

List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP.

The upside is if they get ill they have a second to none healthcare system for all, for less money than the private sector charge. The downside is, it isn't free. Hiring a tax accountant is only avoiding one tax revenue. We have a lot of indirect taxes.

United States 26.9% of GDP - Healthcare per capita $8,508 17.7% of GDP

Denmark 49.0% of GDP - Healthcare per capita $4,448 10.9% of GDP

What are insurance rates, for cars, accidents and anything that might result in a Medical bill like in the US?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog

I have always said that the EU was not going to be easy - I doubt anyone ever did - Why are people surprised that this is happening?..

Is this the excuse the haters have been looking for?....

A big deal? We had a default in 1998. The USA had it for a couple times during the last century only.

[SurfDog]

.
RummyBoy had a good thought - here's another one:

"If you owe the bank $5,000 and can't pay, you have a problem.
If you owe the bank $50,000 and can't pay, you have a partner

[femdomdestiny]

I've talked to my mom, she just came from Greece today. No panic , people are relaxed and pleasant as always. Maybe it is different in big cities , I don't know. Anyway, they will get money from Russia,or China. Chineese already own a lot there. Country with that such coast and position won't be hungry, that is for sure.

Real estate prices are going down, so it i a moment to buy.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog

What Happens Next?..

[Barry-xlovecam]

There was a ''almost run'' on the ATM machines this Saturday. The Greek government says the banks will be open tomorrow (Monday). The Greek Parliament is playing chicken with a threatened referendum on accepting the new bailout terms from Brussels.


The United States has a Federated Union with some sovereign powers reserved to the States -- state debt is not regulated constitutionally or by the US Federal Reserve Bank.

The EU is a fair weather union and the rich countries dictate to the poor countries -- if the ECB doesn't want to back their play -- recall the Euro currency. The idea of the nations being members of the Central Bank (ECB) Eurozone conditionally is not workable. The EU and Eurozone is not a confederation of equals.

The ECB is acting like a private bank and taking over its collateral -- a customer member-state (a country with an army [piss poor army--not a real threat]) in this case. Say, Germany, France or the UK goes belly up -- they have real armies and basically could just tell Brussels to fuck-off.


In a union like the United States the richer states distribute some of the wealth taxed nationally to benefit the poorer states for the sake of unity -- to maintain reasonable living standards. The EU is every member-nation for itself under the same set of rules -- Eurozone membersip optional -- it is a deception as the EU is not one nation of equal states.

[Barry-xlovecam]

It's a punt!
European Central Bank Keeps Greece’s Financial Lifeline in Place
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/bu...tral-bank.html

Popcorn time ...

[JFK]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Maybe Theo can pull together some Greek "Investors"....LOL

Now, that's FUNNY

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

There was a ''almost run'' on the ATM machines this Saturday. The Greek government says the banks will be open tomorrow (Monday). The Greek Parliament is playing chicken with a threatened referendum on accepting the new bailout terms from Brussels.


The United States has a Federated Union with some sovereign powers reserved to the States -- state debt is not regulated constitutionally or by the US Federal Reserve Bank.

The EU is a fair weather union and the rich countries dictate to the poor countries -- if the ECB doesn't want to back their play -- recall the Euro currency. The idea of the nations being members of the Central Bank (ECB) Eurozone conditionally is not workable. The EU and Eurozone is not a confederation of equals.

The ECB is acting like a private bank and taking over its collateral -- a customer member-state (a country with an army [piss poor army--not a real threat]) in this case. Say, Germany, France or the UK goes belly up -- they have real armies and basically could just tell Brussels to fuck-off.


In a union like the United States the richer states distribute some of the wealth taxed nationally to benefit the poorer states for the sake of unity -- to maintain reasonable living standards. The EU is every member-nation for itself under the same set of rules -- Eurozone membersip optional -- it is a deception as the EU is not one nation of equal states.

The bureaucrats want to turn the EU into something like the US. They don't understand History, cultures or people. Take a person from San Diego and one from Boston and what's the difference in teal terms. Now do that with a Dane and a Greek.

Alos Americans have no real complaint about their taxes supporting other States, Europeans do.

And all this is because of a cosy, and nothing more, trade agreement.

[SekobA]

The system that want to live expensive but produce nothing

[Barry-xlovecam]

Reports financial institutions may remain closed all week

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras says the Bank of Greece has recommended that banks remain closed and restrictions be imposed on transactions, after the European Central Bank didn?t increase the amount of emergency liquidity the lenders can access from the central bank.

Greek Banks to Remain Closed Monday as Capital Controls Imposed
Closed until further notice -- the article says perhaps a week ...
If the Euro falls to $1.07 next week I would not be surprised. It's not that the Euro is really worth less this will decrease the demand for Euros to buy some European government ''junk bonds'' they may have become too risky .. we'll see.

Cyprus all over. Are Spain and Italy next?

The political problems prior to WW2 started with financial collapse in Germany and a Fascist regimes rising in Spain, Italy and Germany. Germany and the UK has ''one foot out the door'' hopefully Greece comes to agreement soon -- this is the most likely scenario.

Paul, we accept the fact that there are donor and recipient states in the US and the shoe may be on the other foot some day. We also don't want mass migrations state to state for economic reasons this causes social unrest.

The movement of the Roma within the EU and future Turkish immigration when (if) Turkey ever is accepted into the EU would be a European parallel.

It is better (and in the long run less expensive) to improve people's lives and opportunities where they live within a national federation than to have to assimilate them into your state's better economic and lifestyle environment. However, you cannot necessarily improve social conditions one state compared to another. A lot of the social problems in the USA are caused by these social problems eluded to.

[djroof]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

They have mastered the art of avoiding taxes, every greek i know admits that. Their argument is: the government mismanages the money anyways and therefore doesnt deserve it.

On the other hand they have the highest % of state employees - goverment jobs were given in exchange for votes. All those want to be paid from money they cheat from the government in the first place.

In Greece you have to pay tax on your house once you finish it - now you dont wonder anymore why so many houses were never competely finished. Just one example.

Things need to be fundamentally changed, no greek goverment was willing to do that yet.

Agree 100%

[RR Productions]

I'm happy because of thanks to the bankruptcy of Greece the euro exchange rate against the dollar today has fallen. I hope the next be Spain to go out to the fucking euro and go back to our own currency. Why a poor countries like Spain or Greece must have a higher currency than USA? this is not logical and never can work!!

[GFED]

I'm hoping we don't play this 2% gap to the downside.
thinkorswim Sharing

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by RR Productions

Why a poor countries like Spain or Greece must have a higher currency than USA? this is not logical and never can work!!

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Go back to school man....

[klinton]

actually, he is right.
I've been always saying that strong currency is bad for economy...
weak euro now is a blessing for countries like Spain or even Germany...
and I think that US is not so happy with so strong dollar these days

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Go back to school man....