dyna mo

50 advertisers setting the ad price higher.

TheSquealer

We all get it. He's saying that Coca Cola can throw up ads in kindergardens because its "branding" and we're dumb... ignoring who will see those ads, if they can read, if they even notice the ads, are potential customers etc etc. You just say "its branding" which basically means "anything goes no matter what, so i don't have to know what i'm talking about as i can just insist that you don't"

He doesn't have the slightest clue what the traffic is worth or what people are paying for it. It's among the least efficient and most expensive ways to get eyes on a product when those eyes are actively watching a porn video, clicking to related videos and the guy has his pants around his knees (i.e. there's also some focused urgency in his behaviors).

People who don't actually buy traffic have no concept at all of what it actually takes to get eyeballs on an ad. Those that do understand, are paying a premium for the traffic and have it broken down into tons of niches, devices, countries, cell networks etc etc etc and in each, those making it work are paying a premium for that traffic. Just throwing up an ad is pure stupidity. You can burn 1000.00 before the stats even refresh.

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TheSquealer

Paul Markham literally flunked out of the biz and couldn't make money with a massive library of content. He couldn't buy traffic. He couldn't get webmasters. He couldn't market. He couldn't sell. He could easily have 100 joins a day right now and for the last 10 years but he's just too dumb. I have access to data from much smaller sites with mediocre content, submitting to tubes only doing more than that. He's just to ignorant to own his failures and learn from them.

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Rochard

TheSquealer

And by the way, The Porn Nerd bought a ton of cheap content and launched a huge network of sites with it and today, continues to grow to this day. He did that AFTER Paul began crusading about how it was all over.

Paul, had more content, better content and failed every step of the way to make it work either as a content producer or paysite owner.

But yeah, he can lecture about marketing and "branding" and media buys in the year 2015.

Sounds legit.

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Rochard

Markul

It's an age thing.

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dyna mo

Hah, I didn't know that, congrats to the porn nerd. I've been thinking of throwing my hat in that very ring, buying cheap content but editing it in a certain way to appeal to a microniche that is underrepresented.

Sounds like fun.

TheSquealer

I can't really share numbers that people haven't given permission to, but I will tell you with 100% confidence that there is no shortage of high quality tgp, mgp and tube traffic. There are plenty of small sites killing it with tube traffic.

For anyone that wants to work for it, it's still easy money compared to any other business. I mean, you can't just open a restaurant and have 100k people in the door daily and tweak and adjust based on actual data. You get 3 a day, the. 5, then 20, then maybe if you're lucky, 100 after a year, 200 after two years etc. this is very easy money for anyone with a reasonable IQ that wants to work for it.

The Porn Nerd

Thanks man!

With brains and some hard work, it's easy(ish). The "key" is twofold:

1. Tell a story. This is at the heart of all marketing. Some do it with words, others with images or animation, or both, but in the end the surfer/potential member just wants to "frame" what he is seeing around something interesting. So while superior content is preferred, even older content can sell well if framed properly.

(Paul Markham example: "Come inside and download original, unedited vintage porn from the Fall of Communism! Each model is a first timer, feeling the freedom to explore their sexuality without repurcussions from the Soviet Union. Experience the thrill of these beautiful eastern European natural teen beauties from behind the Iron Curtain getting naked and fucking on film for the first time in their lives!"

Etc.)

2. Outsource daily tasks and focus on growth. Much of the "guts" of any porn biz is the daily grind of editing videos, uploading, updating, etc. Get hajis to do that shit for $2 an hour and instead focus on how to grow, grow, grow!

Everything else should be layered on top of that basic formula, including ad buys, media buys (not necassarily the same thing), optimization, increasing rebills (user experience), lateral growth (upsells), etc. But if you don't get the basics down then you're just spinning your wheels. And complaining. LOL

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Best-In-BC

Most intelligent post of 2016 ! Congrats sir!

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dyna mo

hah, right on, appreciated. i'm mostly familiar and comfortable with all that, my prob is i've spoiled myself with some things running on autopilot. i'm admittedly in a complacent mode right now.

The Porn Nerd

Heh me too man. Smoking a bowl and checking out PornCMS (thanks Ryan for the demo!). While doing so got six sales. My phone goes ding! every time I get one. It's like a friggin' pinball machine sometimes. LOL

Once the hard work of setting things up is done it's 95% passive income.

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dyna mo

i'm thinking i can psych myself up by giving myself carte blanche to buy a bunch of porn.

johnnyloadproductions

Another classic Paul Markham thread. Took a while but I think this is the first one I've seen since his unbanning.

Paul may drive people crazy but he gets them to say things they otherwise would never disclose. lol.

The Porn Nerd

Sounds like fun! Buy the shit that gets you off first.

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xXXtesy10

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NakedWomenTime

My view is that when guys go to Tube sites, they are just looking for porn, and don't pay too much attention to non-porn stuff. Thus, I don't think Diesel advertising will be that effective. However, time will tell.

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Paul Markham

You're still thinking like a webmaster. When a football fan watches a football match he's not thinking of flying to the ME. But Emirates spend a fortune on sponsoring. This is the key to many sponsor deals.

People like Diesel don't need their banners to be clickable to make it work for them. They think in terms of putting their brand in front of people who might buy their products as many times as possible.

This also applies to TV advertising.

Can you claim that wouldn't be effective?

I see it as a possibility. Some think of it as an impossibility because they won't sell enough pants via clicks. Small box people v out of the box thinking.

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Paul Markham

How much does one of your banners cost on a tube site?

Let's say across the top of Pornhub, for arguments sake. Then divide that by the number of views. Because that's how this level of advertising operates. They're not selling pants via mail order and worried about making sure the direct sales meet the cost.

Think beyond your world of CPM. This is irrelevant to them.



But vital to you. Mainstream work on a different level than the profit on direct clicks. Do you think someone at Emirates counts ticket sales after an Arsenal match?

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Paul Markham

As the industry and soft porn become more acceptable it will be good for the porn business. Tapping into the funds available would be a great boost.

This is just football and just a tiny part of these companies marketing budget.



Are any of the audience thinking of buying insurance, mobile phone, flights, gas, etc. While watching a game? Only a fool would suggest it.

Click on the image on the site to see what they spend to get their name on a shirt.

It will change the industry, put a lot out of work and some in work. Because the potential money available is beyond what someone relying on direct sales can dream of. Sports Sponsorship Deals: How Nike, Reebok Are Gaining Influence Over Smaller Leagues, Athletes

Sports Sponsorship Deals: How Nike, Reebok Are Gaining Influence Over Smaller Leagues, Athletes

The only thing that counts is the image. Does it increase the brand's image or decrease it?

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NakedWomenTime

I just think porn is a very different sector to for example sport, for advertising purposes. Advertisers are very concerned with image, brand reputation and reach. However, whilst sport can work for these things, in many ways porn cannot. Porn is a very different market and I can't see many mainstream advertisers getting seriously involved any time soon.

What is needed is another way to target young men now that men's magazines are closing. However, in most cases I don't think that can be porn, because it will not meet the brand values. E.g. selling aftershave, or high end watches, or electronics, porn won't be accepted by advertisers.

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Ferus

Every time you write a line, you make yourself look more clueless as to how things Works anno 2016. You are 100% out of touch with how the business Work - you couldent even make your own business Work, yet you repeatedly voice your oppinion on how a business infinitely more complex than your own failboat works and should be navigated.


Just shut the fuck up, and go sit in the corner and drink you beer.

Paul Markham

This is the best comment yet.

Rather than worrying about clicks per $ and sales. Mainstream companies have a different goal.

Will porn fit the image, brand reputation and reach? There's no other question.

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Markul

Erm... no. lol

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PornDiscounts-V

Exactly!!!

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Paul Markham

Erm.... yes. LOL

Were Cybercat Inc the company giving away the free porn or the company advertising on the free porn site?

Beck in the early days, yes if I wanted a banner on The Hun, we dealt mostly direct with the TGP sites. Now in the Tube days, we have traffic brokers in between. In the mainstream, they have advertising and PR companies between advertiser and publisher.

If the story is true, Diesel are testing the waters.

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dyna mo

So you think mainstream companies aren't concerned with sales.

Got it

CaptainHowdy

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TheSquealer

I don't know how long you've been around, but before tubes came along and he found a great excuse for failing and making all his failures someone elses fault, he fully devoted his time to explaining how Playboy and Penthouse and all their photographers, as well as every content provider in the industry had no clue how to use a camera. So to me, i see a guy who has been doing what you described since day 1. Each post dumber than the previous.... with the stupidity compounding post by post for nearly two decades.

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Rochard

Paul Markham

Go back and read what I said, then look at how mainstream market.

Will they worry about clicks to sales like a porn webmaster does who knows the value of clicks? No. They want to brand, create an image, style and awareness of their product.

That's how product placement, sponsorship, and promotions work.

Here most have to worry about buying $XXXX amount of ad space, then seeing how many of those surfers go to the site and buy while they still get credited with the sale. They don't get the guy that looks and comes back a month later. The site does. They have to worry about being shaved, being upsold and no credit, about banners sending the surfer elsewhere.

The direct clicks to sales, as I pointed out, isn't their goal. Read some of this to see how it works.

Product placement in a film more beneficial than brand sponsorship. Pornhub gets 20 million or 50 million a day. That's people on the site. At a cost of how much for a banner?

Do you think they will have a graph like Squealer has to make sure they stay in profit on the world wide sales?

Thanks, Captain. diesel ads - Google Search Can you see the image they want?

Some here can get a job after they go tits up, creating graphs on views on ads and sales in the shop down the road.

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The Porn Nerd

I'm sorry, I just can't help educating the old man. I consider it my charitable work for the week:

Paul? Companies who do media buys - ANY company, mainstream or adult - are doing so for ONE reason: increased revenue. Whether they do it with a shorter-term goal of ROI (direct sales from those ads) or a longer-term "pavlovian" approach (repeated ad views month-after-month, conditioning the buyer) in the end the GOAL is the same: more revenue. So you are just arguing emphasis and approach and getting all confused.

Oh, and Paul? I hate to break this to you man but a company like Diesal can go directly to Pornhub (or anywhere) and cut an ad deal. No brokers necassary.

Oh, and Paul? If Diesal is successful then this means ADAPT OR DIE. You do realize this, yes? Your record of adapting is quite poor.

Bottom line: media buying, CPM, ad creation, etc is a SCIENCE and people devote their lives, resources and money trying to improve every single day. At least I KNOW I can't compete with a full-time experienced media buyer while you just pontificate based on subjective, outdated data.

Cheers!

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Markul

Paul your total lack of understanding simple marketing fundamentals as well as your ability to be absolutely devoid of any kind of commercial mindset is fucking impressive. Especially when you look at how much you type... Are you sure you are not a woman? I mean do you talk as much bullshit as you type on a regular basis?

No offence intended to women... but ya'll know you talk too much!

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dyna mo

you're trying to explain something you don't understand nor have experience with to people who actually understand it and have experience with it.

TheSquealer

My last attempt... as I wait for someone to show up at my office. (though everyone, most of all me, knows its 100% futile to even attempt to explain anything to you)

EVERYONE FUCKING UNDERSTANDS THEY ARE NOT INTENDING TO SELL DIRECTLY FROM PORNHUB.

The point, which you've missed for the 100th time is that every mainstream company that has tried has failed to advertise in adult.

Failed miserably.

That's why they aren't advertising in a marketplace with a ridiculous amount of traffic thats not overly expensive by any tradition advertising metric.

THEY HAVE FOUND THERE IS NO VALUE THERE FOR THEM.

Get it?

No value.

Value is value.

It doesn't matter if its trying to sell directly or trying to "brand a product" by spending retarded amounts of money on ads to be noticed by no one.

At the end of the day, if you can't compete for and sell something to that traffic, you also can't "brand" a product to that traffic. There is no difference. Putting ads in front of an untargeted audience that isn't noticing them is no more effective than trying to sell to an untargeted audience who isn't noticing the ads, who isn't clicking and who isn't buying. Furthermore, ad rates are driven by people who are spending millions and have this shit dialed in a way which you can never understand. YOU will NEVER made a successful media buy because you're too dumb. That is a fact. You are too much of a fucking idiot to put your money where your mouth is. You have no clue how any of this works, if you did, you'd be making 100 joins a day off your library of content instead of flunking out of the biz and yelling at clouds all day long.

If you can't get their eyes and their attention, on the message, there is no "branding". It doesn't matter that they want to spend 1,000,000,000.00 or 1,000.00.

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Rochard

dyna mo

don't forget the part about how a diesel ad campaign at pornhub spells the ultimate demise of pornography.

Paul Markham

Now you've dropped the CPM idea and your graphs TO SELL DIRECTLY FROM PORNHUB you're getting it. So why you stayed on that road is beyond me.

Diesel and mainstream don't give a fuck about what you do. They have different primary goals for advertising.

Now can you list the mainstream companies that have advertised on major Tubes and the reasons they dropped it? Then we can start looking at time, demographics, audience reactions via surveys and media reaction.

Leave your silly graphs out of it. Because you only know the value of it to you via clicks that convert at the time.

You're too stuck in your thinking. The article is a win for both Diesel and Pornhub, time will tell if it grows. I have an open mind to the possible, you need to open yours.

At least, you learned this was wrong. I edited it to make it correct. See my references to football sponsorships.

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TheSquealer

Right. Forgot about that. Someone is going to buy up all the ad spots at unreal rates and all the adult sites to put irrelevant, untargeted ads in front of users to grow their business. Makes perfect sense. I'm going to "brand" some of my grandma's homemade jelly on pornhub tomorrow... sure its going to cost 10,000.00 USD a day in traffic which i have to pay for even though no one sees the ads, clicks on them or visits my site because its a CPM buy and i'm only paying for ad displays, not clicks, but according to Paul, its just good business sense. Once i've done that enough, i'll just start buying sites to advertise on at an immense loss and then buy pornhub. Because Paul said thats how it works.

He would quite literally be the worst cult leader ever.

There would be the worst story, using the worst imaginable logic.

Even insane people would be like "Paul, i'm sorry to say this but i'm gonna have to head over to the Heavens Gate cult where they believe an alien ship is hiding in the tail of the Hale Bop Comet... and kill myself so they will take me off this planet... because quite frankly, they are making much more sense then you are"

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Rochard

dyna mo

profit!!!

jimmycooper

FYI - If anyone is so inclined and wants to figure out how the campaign has performed to date despite Diesel having yet to run an ad, estimate the human labour costs in having their PR team compose and send a press release to existing media contacts, multiply that number by 1000 divide that number by the estimated total number of impressions they’ve received from having mentions over the past 5 days on lifestyle oriented sites which fit their demographic (Maxim/Details/Complex/Vogue), locally targeted sites in what I presume are two of their largest markets (Daily Mail-London/Daily Snooze-NYC), niche targeted gay sites (Out/Next), and all the hundreds of other relevant websites which have run the story and you'll get the estimated CPM to date.

If you understand marketing, you should know how powerful PR can be as a marketing tool so I’m pretty shocked that it has yet to be mentioned in a thread full of marketing experts.

While I haven't done the math, it does seem as if the campaign has gotten off to a rock solid start.

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dyna mo

it makes no sense to convolute the op when it's based on the assumption mainstream advertisers at pornhub are going to ruin it all by paying higher ad rates because they're mainstream.

Best-In-BC

lol, NAILED IT!

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Barry-xlovecam

It's called "top-of-mind" brand marketing and it's very costly.

I find it more interesting that Diesel wants to buy cheap tube ads and have their product associated with porn -- that's interesting. The back and forth here is just mindless bullshit but entertaining

dyna mo

If you think diesel is launching a pornhub ad campaign to vie for top of the mind branding in the high end fashion industry, youre adding to the mindless bullshit that you find so entertaining.

Diesels not even in the top 20 brands in the luxury/high end fashion business.

TheSquealer

Everyone keeps calling tube traffic "cheap". It is absolutely not cheap. Traffic value is exactly that. It's value. The value of traffic is determined by what people can make off of it. Feeder traffic is cheap,... because you can't milk much value out of it. Top tier tube NTVA ads are expensive because people are very good at milking a high amount of value out of them. There is nothing "cheap" about targeted cpm ads on pornhub or tube8 etc.

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Rochard

ErectMedia

Still cheaper than where most mainstream sites would advertise Facebook, Twitter, Google etc... I made some concert ticket sales from my ticket brokerage on adult traffic and conversions were cheaper than the above 3 methods.

http://blog.eat24hours.com/how-to-ad...-porn-website/

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TheSquealer

Uhm... no. Facebook costs more because the targeting is vastly better, making it infinitely easier to target your exact demographic. You can target by sex, age, marital status, their political affiliations, things they like, their hobbies, their home town etc etc etc. The list is long and the options many. By the way, Facebook is another example of mainstream fortune 500 companies getting burned time and time again because they don't understand media buys. There is no shortage of large companies complaining about ads on facebook and no shortage of kids at home making 100k a month off that same traffic. In fact, there is probably no other ad platform online with targeting that is that good. Same with Google (depending on keyword areas) and also because some areas are worth more than others... ie "dog food" is not worth anything near "mesothelioma attorney".

You are confusing "cost per click" or "CPM rates" with "value". A cost per click or CPM is always relative to what a buyer can make off of it. That is determined by overall traffic quality and targeting options.

The idea that people are out there just throwing up ads to get eyes on a product is not only retarded, but it is an idea that came in 1998 and went out with the .com crash right after.

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Rochard

Barry-xlovecam

And that is exactly why they are buying the traffic.

And tube traffic is dirt cheap when you buy a lot of it

D'oh ...

TheSquealer

Clearly you've never bought traffic. Pornhub traffic is far from dirt cheap. ANd as i've said countless times, the CPM or cost per click is irrelevant if the value is not there. A new Toyota Corolla is cheap, ... but its 100% irrelevant when i'm trying to make a profit on it. If i buy poorly at 15,000 and can only sell at 13,000.00 it doesn't matter that it only cost 15,000. If you buy a new Astin Martin at 224,000 to sell and can only sell for 225,000... the total cost is irrelevant to the value to you.

A company has to buy ads. Those ads have to have value. Cheap ads/traffic has less proportionately less value, regardless of your objective. You'd know this if you'd ever actually tried to buy traffic and could do it successfully.

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Rochard

TheSquealer

and by the way, i'd love to see you try to successfully buy cam traffic on porn hub, genius. Let us know how "cheap traffic" and branding works out for you. You'll get rich for sure.

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Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

Rochard

Barry-xlovecam

LMFAO


Still trying to rub two nickels together I see ... go GFY

ErectMedia

Conversion ratio is better on Facebook, Google due to that targeting. Doesn't matter if conversions aren't as good as mainstream traffic if the price of the adult traffic gives you substantially more traffic to make up for the lower conversion rate. So just depends on the spread. If double the adult traffic for the same price then yeah better to buy facebook/google traffic for mainstream shit, but if ya find an adult source giving ya a substantial difference in volume for the same price then there is room to make up for the lower conversion rate. All that matters at the end of the day is how much did I spend and what was my return. Whether that comes from lower volume quality targeted traffic or higher volume less targeted traffic is up to your testing to decide which campaign puts more profit in the bank at the lowest cost.

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