Bernie Sanders' Math

[MarkTiarra]

He keeps saying he'll save you enough on healthcare that the tax boost he proposes will be more than offset. Does anyone know if his math works here? I foresee a situation in which the tax boost happens and the healthcare never does, so everyone gets even more fooked.

And... Why doesn't any candidate ever talk about just how much of our federal budget is fluff? I bet if we stopped overpaying for basic services at every turn, we could cut the budget by billions.

/rant

[L-Pink]

The United States already spends a fortune on health care. In fact the U.S. spent 17.1 percent of its gross domestic product on health care in 2013. Why should we spend more?

What is being spent just needs to be spent more efficiently. Starting with the insurance companies.

[Sly]

Bernie's core demographic has healthcare paid by their parents or the tax payer.

Ask those that actually pay the bills what they think.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Sly

Bernie's core demographic has healthcare paid by their parents or the tax payer.

Ask those that actually pay the bills what they think.

berine is just another asshole that doesn't understand money and thinks it's a 'right' to take people stuff and give it a lazy fuck

[seksi]

From Bernie Sanders' website:

Paid for by a 6.2 percent income-based health care premium paid by employers, a 2.2 percent income-based premium paid by households, progressive income tax rates, taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work, limiting tax deductions for the rich, adjusting the estate tax, and savings from health tax expenditures.

In most cases these premiums will be less than what private persons or their employers are paying for health insurance. Single payer reduces a lot of redundancy and obviously greedy profit-taking in the health insurance market.

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

Why doesn't any candidate ever talk about just how much of our federal budget is fluff? I bet if we stopped overpaying for basic services at every turn, we could cut the budget by billions.

This sentiment is at the heart of the economic argument for single payer national health insurance. Why should we compel individuals, families and employers to buy fluff & waste because of a mandate to purchase health insurance on the private market, with its waste an inefficiencies in marketing, coding, billing and legal dodges? Why don't we organize ourselves so that more healthcare dollars are spent on actual healthcare?

Medicare is pretty cheap, about $115/month. It's essentially only good for hospitalization, emergencies. It's not dental, etc. Obviously there's a market for supplemental insurance right now for Medicare recipients, and the insurance industry is not doomed if Bernie is elected and enacts Medicare for All.

People and governments will buy fluff if you market it hard enough, or lobby for it. When we bring the lobbyists under control and get big money out politics, there will be less fluff, but that's an argument for another thread.

I hope I have answered your question!

[clickity click]

KFC is KFC..

[dyna mo]

the math never works out, on any government plan. BO's math certainly did not work out on ACA.

[seksi]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

the math never works out, on any government plan. BO's math certainly did not work out on ACA.

I doubt Obama did math on ACA. He proposed something different, including a public option. I am sure that HR3200 being Pelosi's pet bill only had to sustain lobbyists critiques, not so much the CBO and open debate. The Hyde amendment (abortion/birth control implications) got more air time than the Weiner amendment(economics + values).

Biden's team has the economists and mathematicians in this administration.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by seksi

I doubt Obama did math on ACA. He proposed something different, including a public option. I am sure that HR3200 being Pelosi's pet bill only had to sustain lobbyists critiques, not so much the CBO and open debate. The Hyde amendment (abortion/birth control implications) got more air time than the Weiner amendment(economics + values).

Biden's team has the economists and mathematicians in this administration.

BO promised premiums would go down in cost under ACA. perhaps he should have done the math prior to making the promise.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Bernie is using pie in the sky fuzzy math;
for an individual 40 yrs old not inclusive of all family members?
11% of your SE or FICA taxable income per individual.

If you pay these taxes on <$40K you would win
If you pay these taxes on >$40K you would lose

(2.9*2.8)+2.9
11.02

(Medicare tax rate * taxpayer ratio to each retired recipient) + Medicare tax rate for currently retired benefactors (for the next 22 years[life expectancy?]) .

There are many possible variable scenarios -- I am not an actuary but my gut hunch the range might be 9% to 12.5% actual cost (depending on the number of dependents insured).

[seksi]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

BO promised premiums would go down in cost under ACA. perhaps he should have done the math prior to making the promise.

Dates and times, mediums that recorded the promises? The public option might have created more choices and better priced or higher quality plans. Congress killed that.

A sustained political revolution, massive participation in activism and elections are going to be required to get any work out Congress these days.

[dave90210]

No end to worry about Bearnie he's losing! Worry more about Hilary she's the one we need to beat at the polls

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by seksi

Dates and times, mediums that recorded the promises? The public option might have created more choices and better priced or higher quality plans. Congress killed that.

A sustained political revolution, massive participation in activism and elections are going to be required to get any work out Congress these days.

dates and times and mediums of what? i understand congress does or doesn't do what it does, nevertheless, BO promised the math works out for john q. public, it doesn't. there no reason to expect anyone's math to work out on public works programs of the future.

[dyna mo]

if this is what you're asking for:

"I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

The Obameter: Cut the cost of a typical family's health insurance premium by up to $2,500 a year | PolitiFact

[seksi]

Originally Posted by dave90210

No end to worry about Bearnie he's losing! Worry more about Hilary she's the one we need to beat at the polls

Senator Bernie Sanders just won big in MN and CO, states that have true Democratic party processes like "open" caucuses, like upcoming states like KS, NE, WA, etc. The Clintons are winning(again) in the kind of environments created by voter restrictions that usually favor the GOP, e.g. TX, which removes voters from the rolls for parking tickets.

This fight is obviously going on through NY & CA, Bernie has mastered crowdfunding, and the billionaire class is already maxed out to the Clinton family campaign.