Charge back on my personal website

[Devious Angel]

I don't know how these laws work but I'm pissed as Hell so maybe one of you guys could help me shed some light on the issue.

So I have my personal website.
And I post all kind of content there, from blog to videos, photo sets etcetera.
This guy joins my site in September, gets rebilled every month until January and then he asks for a charge back for every month since he joined my website.
And he just has it.
4 months of private content, 4 months in which this guy agreed to get rebilled, 4 months in which he took my photos and videos and did whatever he wanted with them..

Is this fair?
Can you ask for a chargeback after 4 months and they can give you the whole amount ?

I am so upset right now..

[Colmike9]

Can we write stronger TOS's to tell chargebackers to fuck off?

If he had 4 months, it should be 1 refundable month max if anything since the other 3 months were used by the customer (Check logs)

I'd dispute it and be a dick, but that's just me..


That's like if I went to McDonalds and said "I ate the Big Mac you gave me, but I want my money back anyways"...

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by Devious Angel

Is this fair?
Can you ask for a chargeback after 4 months and they can give you the whole amount ?

I am so upset right now..

no it´s not fair, yes they can...

it could be the credit card that´s defaulted not the person asking for the money back.


You have to take the rough with the smooth, forget about that one fish & enjoy the others all swimming in your ocean. If you don´t, you end up not being as good to the other amazing people as you could be.


Don´t panic, you´ll have many great people & just the one occasional chargeback, it´s all worth it!


FYI, I had a member just charge back for the similar time, 4 months full membership & was just as I was paid out, so actually had negative income for a day or so...

All the best to you DA

[directfiesta]

sure he can ...

the customer ( card holder ) is ALWAYS right, even if you would prove him wrong .
Even more for card-not-present transactions.

Get over it, move on , and expect to have more .

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Can we write stronger TOS's to tell chargebackers to fuck off?

If he had 4 months, it should be 1 refundable month max if anything since the other 3 months were used by the customer (Check logs)

I'd dispute it and be a dick, but that's just me..


That's like if I went to McDonalds and said "I ate the Big Mac you gave me, but I want my money back anyways"...

agreed & yes, agreed...

it´s not fair & I don´t see how it can happen. Although, if I said my card´s been stolen & ate big mac, that would be charged back. I suppose that´s what´s great with a chargeback system like Nalem, they fight this kind of stuff.

I´ve spoke to MC about having an external chargeback system, maybe it may happen to save me & the other models from going through it...

For me, it´s an ass as I was actually not just spending my movies on this guy that charged back but I was actually spending time, speaking in "direct messaging" with him for months. My own actual time.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Who is your merchant account that allowed that?

Have you ever tried to dispute a charge at your credit card issuing bank?
You make the complaint, sign and return an affidavit, agree to close your account and can't use that account for 5 to 10 days until you have received your new card by mail -- that is if it is a real bank and domestic. You have to reset all of your reoccurring payments and other one-click e-commerce sites you use that card at.

If all of that grief is worth $120 to you you are either a broke-dick or retired with nothing to do.

Truth is that all 3rd party payment processors will throw you under the bus to save their merchant accounts. Part of the high cost of doing business when you are a small or micro business person ... That's life --- move on there is notihng you can do other qualify to get your own merchant account and dispute theses charge-backs as you see fit.

[celandina]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

sure he can ...

the customer ( card holder ) is ALWAYS right, even if you would prove him wrong .
Even more for card-not-present transactions.

Get over it, move on , and expect to have more .

Correct advice..... Its no use fighting chargebacks....

[Penny24Seven]

It sucks because they are straight up stealing from you. That is what bothered us. Not worried about the money but nobody likes that shit.
The shitty part is when you complain about it you get told not to have a lot of them.

[Devious Angel]

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Can we write stronger TOS's to tell chargebackers to fuck off?

If he had 4 months, it should be 1 refundable month max if anything since the other 3 months were used by the customer (Check logs)

I'd dispute it and be a dick, but that's just me..


That's like if I went to McDonalds and said "I ate the Big Mac you gave me, but I want my money back anyways"...

That's exactly how I feel.
I mean, ok, I had my fun, thank you, I'll take my money and you can fuck off now...

[Adraco]

It's like calling up a whore to your hotel room, give her the money upfront, use her and before she leaves - make sure to get all the cash back.

Personally, I love that my credit card company is on my side, protecting no one else but me!

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Devious Angel

I don't know how these laws work but I'm pissed as Hell so maybe one of you guys could help me shed some light on the issue.

So I have my personal website.
And I post all kind of content there, from blog to videos, photo sets etcetera.
This guy joins my site in September, gets rebilled every month until January and then he asks for a charge back for every month since he joined my website.
And he just has it.
4 months of private content, 4 months in which this guy agreed to get rebilled, 4 months in which he took my photos and videos and did whatever he wanted with them..

Is this fair?
Can you ask for a chargeback after 4 months and they can give you the whole amount ?

I am so upset right now..

Hi Devious,

Here's what you should do.

First, contact the card holder. Very politely, ask them why they charged back. Did they not like the content? Or, was their card information used without their consent?

If they say they did not like the content, try to find out when they accessed it. They did connect a few times a month? If so, are they lying about not liking the content?

If their card use was unauthorized, who used it? Did the husband use his wife's card? Or was it their son or daughter? Do you think the card holder is lying?

If the card used was stolen, there's really nothing you can do.

But if its anything else, then your customer is stealing from you, and stealing from the bank and credit card company.

What you want to try to do is get as much information as you can, and try to recover as much money as you can.

Take the friendly approach first. If the customer is a nice guy and just did an honest mistake, appear to him as an entrepreneur, and try to settle what he owes you. For example, ask him to pay 3 months out of the 4. Or, maybe offer him some kind of discount if he returns.

If he complains that he had a problem with your site, listen to him carefully, and do what you can to improve your site.

If you determine that he's just being an ass and is trying to rip you off, contact the payment processor and provide them with your notes. If they agree, they can find the chargeback with you.

While the credit card company is almost always on the side of the merchant, the payment processor is on your side. They do not want you to have a chargeback. They want you to be a responsible merchant and provide good service at a fair price, and they can help you out if you are screwed over.

Unfortunately this will take alot of time and work on your end, and only you can decide if its worth pursuing or not.

Do this: Call your payment processor and tell them you disagree with this chargeback, and they will tell you what you can do to try to recover it. I'm sure they have many more ways than I listed above.

Good luck!

[Devious Angel]

Originally Posted by Penny24Seven

It sucks because they are straight up stealing from you. That is what bothered us. Not worried about the money but nobody likes that shit.
The shitty part is when you complain about it you get told not to have a lot of them.

Exactly, it's not even about the money.
I'm trying to build up my website and make it work and then this comes along...

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Truth is that all 3rd party payment processors will throw you under the bus to save their merchant accounts. Part of the high cost of doing business when you are a small or micro business person ... That's life --- move on there is notihng you can do other qualify to get your own merchant account and dispute these charge-backs as you see fit.

Originally Posted by celandina

Correct advice..... Its no use fighting chargebacks....

I've heard this from several merchants and that approach has always baffled me. I fight cb's, most of the time I win. I still get hit by the additional cb fees but I've saved 1000's in unfair, friendly fraud cbs over the years by taking the time to compile well-documented disputes with evidence. it's a pain in the ass but worth the time (10-15 mins) to force an asshole to pay for what he purchased and enjoyed.

Originally Posted by Devious Angel

Exactly, it's not even about the money.
I'm trying to build up my website and make it work and then this comes along...

sorry it happened, I know it's hella frustrating

cb's are always going to be a part of business. you can run the most ethical site in the world and some idiot out there who adores you won't recognize the charge on his credit card bill and another one will try to steal just because he can.

impossible to avoid completely, but cb's are a very small part of your business if you do things right. it's demoralizing for sure, but if you have no further recourse push it aside and move on. thieving assholes don't deserve the head space, save that for your valued clients and pushing your business higher up the income ranks

[Bladewire]

Chargeback are always rough in January, after Christmas bills pile up and people commit fraud to take that debt down.

I fight back chargebacks with my merchant and have lost 8%. I win 92% of the time. It only takes a few minutes

[ChargeBacks]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Hi Devious,

Here's what you should do.

First, contact the card holder. Very politely, ask them why they charged back. Did they not like the content? Or, was their card information used without their consent?

If they say they did not like the content, try to find out when they accessed it. They did connect a few times a month? If so, are they lying about not liking the content?

If their card use was unauthorized, who used it? Did the husband use his wife's card? Or was it their son or daughter? Do you think the card holder is lying?

If the card used was stolen, there's really nothing you can do.

But if its anything else, then your customer is stealing from you, and stealing from the bank and credit card company.

What you want to try to do is get as much information as you can, and try to recover as much money as you can.

Take the friendly approach first. If the customer is a nice guy and just did an honest mistake, appear to him as an entrepreneur, and try to settle what he owes you. For example, ask him to pay 3 months out of the 4. Or, maybe offer him some kind of discount if he returns.

If he complains that he had a problem with your site, listen to him carefully, and do what you can to improve your site.

If you determine that he's just being an ass and is trying to rip you off, contact the payment processor and provide them with your notes. If they agree, they can find the chargeback with you.

While the credit card company is almost always on the side of the merchant, the payment processor is on your side. They do not want you to have a chargeback. They want you to be a responsible merchant and provide good service at a fair price, and they can help you out if you are screwed over.

Unfortunately this will take alot of time and work on your end, and only you can decide if its worth pursuing or not.

Do this: Call your payment processor and tell them you disagree with this chargeback, and they will tell you what you can do to try to recover it. I'm sure they have many more ways than I listed above.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

I've heard this from several merchants and that approach has always baffled me. I fight cb's, most of the time I win. I still get hit by the additional cb fees but I've saved 1000's in unfair, friendly fraud cbs over the years by taking the time to compile well-documented disputes with evidence. it's a pain in the ass but worth the time (10-15 mins) to force an asshole to pay for what he purchased and enjoyed.



sorry it happened, I know it's hella frustrating

cb's are always going to be a part of business. you can run the most ethical site in the world and some idiot out there who adores you won't recognize the charge on his credit card bill and another one will try to steal just because he can.

impossible to avoid completely, but cb's are a very small part of your business if you do things right. it's demoralizing for sure, but if you have no further recourse push it aside and move on. thieving assholes don't deserve the head space, save that for your valued clients and pushing your business higher up the income ranks

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Chargeback are always rough in January, after Christmas bills pile up and people commit fraud to take that debt down.

I fight back chargebacks with my merchant and have lost 8%. I win 92% of the time. It only takes a few minutes

Dear Devious Angel,

Our recommendation is to always challenge the chargeback, and provide as much detail as you can. Do you archive the chat or cam2cam session, and maintain a IP log? If yes include it in your response.

One successful tactic is to contact the client, and if you suspect that they are intentionally trying to defraud you, advise them that you are prepared to file a police report in their jurisdiction about the fraudulent activity. Remember you are a victim of theft. Their full name, known IP addresses, chat history, etc will be part of that official and very public record.

You will be surprised by the number of people who suddenly decide to cancel their chargeback request.

Sabrina

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Chargeback are always rough in January, after Christmas bills pile up and people commit fraud to take that debt down.

I fight back chargebacks with my merchant and have lost 8%. I win 92% of the time. It only takes a few minutes

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by Devious Angel

I don't know how these laws work but I'm pissed as Hell so maybe one of you guys could help me shed some light on the issue.

So I have my personal website.
And I post all kind of content there, from blog to videos, photo sets etcetera.
This guy joins my site in September, gets rebilled every month until January and then he asks for a charge back for every month since he joined my website.
And he just has it.
4 months of private content, 4 months in which this guy agreed to get rebilled, 4 months in which he took my photos and videos and did whatever he wanted with them..

Is this fair?
Can you ask for a chargeback after 4 months and they can give you the whole amount ?

I am so upset right now..

Welcome to the Internets

I bet you were processing with CCbill or something, with no way to fight chargebacks.

[bns666]

sorry to hear

[onwebcam]

Mail some signed nude photo's and a sign in log to "current resident" and hope that his wife opens the mail.

Just kidding. Get over it and move on.

[AmeliaG]

One of the best things about using third party billing is that you don't have to get all up in dealing with those sorts of things and getting personally upset, but the minus is it is harder for you to do anything about it.

You might want to email the customer, explain to him how costly to you this is where you lose the credit card fees and the total amount so you are taking a loss etc., and ask if he made an error. Some customers won't recognize third party biller info as you on their statement.

In general, though, best to limit how much time you spend on it. Cost of doing business.

[Speigelau]

He got into a bad car accident during the first month and has been laid up in the hospital for 3 months. He just returned home and noticed the recurring charges and felt a chargeback was warranted, I'm sure you'll understand.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

I fight cb's, most of the time I win. I still get hit by the additional cb fees but I've saved 1000's in unfair, friendly fraud cbs over the years by taking the time to compile well-documented disputes with evidence.

Those "additional" fees - do you mean when you lose and the chargeback stands, or that you have to pay a fee even when you win the dispute and the chargeback is withdrawn? Your wording is a little ambiguous, can you clarify?

[HairyChick]

I had logs of every login with IP, username and material accessed and/or downloaded. Part of my terms at signup said everything was logged and in case of chargeback, I'd file a police report and take them to Small Claims Court. They'd owe $10 per photo stolen and $50 per video downloaded. Only in one instance was it not a stolen credit card. I filed a police report after notifying them by registered letter that I intended to prosecute for theft of $1300. A money order arrived for the price of a full year ($99) with an apology. Their teenaged son used mommy's credit card. The police had contacted them the week before and they discovered their son loved porn. Police said they couldn't advise her but they 'suggested' she pay for a year in good faith, rather than lose in court.

I didn't want to go to court and tell my neighbors what I did for work. I figured I'd scare them with the threat but would just write it off. Luckily it worked out.

One fuckwit used a stolen credit card and grabbed all my content and used it to put up a site. He stupidly took payment via PayPal only. I contacted his US host, PayPal, and his Russian ISP (I paid $50 for translation of my letter). PayPal credited back all payments, his host shut him down, and uhm a friend got the content off his computer. Turns out he had more than thirty websites, all stolen content. PayPal returned it from what they told me. I doubted it was all returned as PayPal kept all monies from sites profiting against their terms.

It was such a pain I decided just to accept chargebacks as part of doing business. Then the rules changed ... old-timers will remember the two-chargeback rule. Three strikes and you lose your merchant account. Shitstorm of the decade. If you search, I'm sure you can relive it here.

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by rowan

or that you have to pay a fee even when you win the dispute and the chargeback is withdrawn?

I eat the cb fee whether I win or lose the disputeㅤㅤㅤㅤ

[SplatterMaster]

You left a couple of facts out op.

The thief used a stolen card to join your site and rip it.

The thief uploaded all your content to a file locker and is making money off it through various pirate boards.

Unfortunately that's how porn works these days...

[dillfly2000]

Originally Posted by SplatterMaster

You left a couple of facts out op.

The thief used a stolen card to join your site and rip it.

The thief uploaded all your content to a file locker and is making money off it through various pirate boards.

Unfortunately that's how porn works these days...

I threw up a little.

[DukeSkywalker]

Originally Posted by Devious Angel

I don't know how these laws work but I'm pissed as Hell so maybe one of you guys could help me shed some light on the issue.

So I have my personal website.
And I post all kind of content there, from blog to videos, photo sets etcetera.
This guy joins my site in September, gets rebilled every month until January and then he asks for a charge back for every month since he joined my website.
And he just has it.
4 months of private content, 4 months in which this guy agreed to get rebilled, 4 months in which he took my photos and videos and did whatever he wanted with them..

Is this fair?
Can you ask for a chargeback after 4 months and they can give you the whole amount ?

I am so upset right now..

Well now you know how most producers feel who make their own content. Now, if it's your own site, put an address field and include a tangible in the mail. Now it's a different story as they have received tangible merch or swag.
Ds

[Pipecrew]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Hi Devious,

Here's what you should do.

First, contact the card holder. Very politely, ask them why they charged back. Did they not like the content? Or, was their card information used without their consent?

If they say they did not like the content, try to find out when they accessed it. They did connect a few times a month? If so, are they lying about not liking the content?

If their card use was unauthorized, who used it? Did the husband use his wife's card? Or was it their son or daughter? Do you think the card holder is lying?

If the card used was stolen, there's really nothing you can do.

But if its anything else, then your customer is stealing from you, and stealing from the bank and credit card company.

What you want to try to do is get as much information as you can, and try to recover as much money as you can.

Take the friendly approach first. If the customer is a nice guy and just did an honest mistake, appear to him as an entrepreneur, and try to settle what he owes you. For example, ask him to pay 3 months out of the 4. Or, maybe offer him some kind of discount if he returns.

If he complains that he had a problem with your site, listen to him carefully, and do what you can to improve your site.

If you determine that he's just being an ass and is trying to rip you off, contact the payment processor and provide them with your notes. If they agree, they can find the chargeback with you.

While the credit card company is almost always on the side of the merchant, the payment processor is on your side. They do not want you to have a chargeback. They want you to be a responsible merchant and provide good service at a fair price, and they can help you out if you are screwed over.

Unfortunately this will take alot of time and work on your end, and only you can decide if its worth pursuing or not.

Do this: Call your payment processor and tell them you disagree with this chargeback, and they will tell you what you can do to try to recover it. I'm sure they have many more ways than I listed above.

Good luck!

Factor in all the time this is going to take you and just take it on the Chin like most people. It's very unmotivating fighting chargebacks even when you have a mountain of evidence and will take the L anyway.

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by Pipecrew

Factor in all the time this is going to take you and just take it on the Chin like most people. It's very unmotivating fighting chargebacks even when you have a mountain of evidence and will take the L anyway.

I think the choice whether to fight back (where possible, as Barry wrote above most IPSPs don't offer that as an option) or eat the cb depends on personality and system.

for me to not fight cb's would not work. I don't have a personality that enjoys situations where a person who acts wrong benefits at the expense of someone doing the right thing. it offends my innate sense of justice or some shit, I dunno, seriously pisses me off

would kill my motivation for the work tbh if I felt that awful behavior was just steamrolling over me without me acting in response to protect the interests/cash of myself and the peeps with whom I work. plus I really don't get a lot, I think most vanilla businesses would kill for how few I get. so time-wise it's not a huge expense. last month was 2 and I won them both.

maybe if I was doing millions of $$$ and 10k per month in transactions and had the same low cb ration I doubt I'd bother...I probably still would though

so for me it makes sense to fight them. I have several template letters I use as the basis for each dispute, so I simply compile the evidence (which I can do during a 10 min smoke break and isn't annoying to do, is actually fun to find out how much you can find out about people, esp if they use social media and professional networking sites) then just fill in dates/amounts, fax em off and done.

to each their own though. I can't understand it personally but if it's physiologically more functional for some merchants to ignore cb's I can't fault them. I do think if more peeps fought back some of these fuckers would be less likely to try the same ish in the future, but I don't think it's fair to hold site owners responsible for that

back to you, OP, Pipecrew is correct. you can't dispute the cb yourself so push it out of your mind

onwards and upwards - and make sure you ask mc to add him to their gateway bad client list

[rowan]

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

I eat the cb fee whether I win or lose the disputeㅤㅤㅤㅤ

Ouch. So a successful outcome could still result in a net loss. Merchants really DO pay for everything.

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by rowan

Ouch. So a successful outcome could still result in a net loss.

yeah, it sucks but it's a part of the business. I get more irked by the cb's than I am by the fees, the fees wouldn't even exist but for specific and deliberate client decisions

most IPSPs charge a cb fee as well

it's bull when sites and sponsors try to pass that fee on to talent and affiliates though. I think I'm correct in stating that mc covers that fee, rather than Devious Angel. hope so anyways.

and I just reread my post above and fucking auto correct. I meant to write 'ratio' and 'psychologically' and it was too late to edit