Not online. In person you can ask for ID. Big difference ... BIG DIFFERENCE
Then block me -- or try to ... fuck 'em
They are not that smart.

This whole thing will fall flat on its face in the end -- just like the mandatory ISP filters did in Australia years ago. Cry me a river ...

He can't buy it, but he can see it. :upsidedow

ISP filters do not work because they just end up getting turned off.

The needs of a household with different users is not served by ISP blocking.

Adults in the household that want to wank or gamble are also blocked.

The methodology in this system is that it will be at device level. Therefore the adults in the house can consume services that they choose, and they can help to screen what their children can access.

The ISP filter brought in a couple of years ago was also completely ineffective because it was a choose once system that only asked your preference on first connection.

:2 cents:

Horseshit.

We dont allow children to buy alcohol or tobacco, or to gamble, or to drive.

Society decides what is reasonable and regulates accordingly.

What exactly is unreasonable about keeping children away from porn ?

Children cannot buy adult magazines in shops, they cannot go to a live sex show, why should they be able to view wall to wall free porn on the internet ?

I have been involved in the UK process for some time. Lots of serious industry people have worked very hard to ensure this legislation is fair and effective. We have experience of bad legislation in the UK and we did not want a repeat of ATVOD.

If this legislation is effectively rolled out and policed it will create an environment which achieves its aims of child protection, and allows the adult industry to serve its customers.

What exactly is wrong with that ?

:thumbsup

Are there many adults among 4-member families (with 2 kids) who want to wank? This is quite absurd.

Even if a daddy wanted to watch porn from time to time at home (like.. when his kids and wife all sleep??) , why not use a different ISP for kids, with access blocked? Kids usually surf on their mobile devices after all, using mobile internet - with their own number. It's very easy to block porn for them. It's the responsibility of parents.

Years ago when internet did not exist and magazines weren't sold to kids, we still managed to watch porn, at the age of 13-14. Because we wanted it LOL. Someone took a VHS tape from their parents' bedroom and we borrowed it from him.

This is made to harm adult business, not to protect kids. Bullshit from religious extremists.

When the State decides that all the actions of their children are their responsibility, we can rely on the parents to look after them. Or lock them up when the children do wrong.

Until then it's the States and it has always been illegal to allow children to access porn.

I do know shop keepers can't allow children to buy guns, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. So why not porn? Oh, just a minute they do ban shop keepers from allowing children to buy or view.

So I guess this law is just the State catching up.

Like I said, the UK can devise a scheme that is lawful in their country, give me validation access with and verification API AT THEIR EXPENSE.

Any fool that thinks this is calling for a pop up dialog and an I am over 18 checkbox is extremely misinformed.

The UK is mandating a age verification without stating the terms (so far). The onus is on the UK if they want this to happen. Otherwise they will close most of the adult internet to their citizens like China does.

Stop insinuating I want underage traffic -- that is a crock of shit. Why don't you spend the $0.48; £0.37 to credit card validate every site visitor you have -- if you really give a shit about the kiddies entering you websites -- looks a little different now?

At a 100:1 conversion rate, with credit card verified adults, your customer acquisition cost for validation is $48.

Say an affiliate made the conversion and earned 50% PPS
*(affiliate revshare used in place of advertising expense-- not including content expenses or fixed operating expenses)

$30 - ($48+$15) -$33 first sale
$30 - ($33 [loss caryover]) -$3 second sale (rebill)

,38 eurocent was the cost I was quoted (when the Euro was $1.30)
The reason I took the time to consider it was to give 5 minutes of free cam credits to new customer signups that validated their credit card. Many cam site customers spend $500 or more in Customer lifetime revenue. I thought it was doable and viable.

I have heard, (heresay) that the porn paysites average 2.6 rebills per customer, if that is true, then they would lose money on new UK customers if they have to pay for the validation for age verification.

If you can do this at a better conversion rate -- then just fucking do it.
At 30:1 you break even on the above basis on the first sale.



Free sites and affiliate websites could not pay these costs.
Tubes could not pay these costs either.

So, either the UK government pony's up and offers a age check API for its citizens and an no cost to web operators or I doubt anyone outside of the UK will cooperate -- I sure as hell wont.

I despise censorship of all kinds.

Wow Barry, so you left X-cams because you are now the spokesman for the international online Porn Industry ?

I never knew you were so well connected ?

Strangely my own experience is that ALL of the big players are planning for this change. Just another challenge to overcome, and an opportunity upon which to capitalise.

So good luck with your business.

:thumbsup

Thats nice Dear.

However wrong thread. This thread is about stopping children from viewing pornography.

:thumbsup

its about tory nutjobs and you know it, cozzer

Reading the comments here I have a few thoughts...

First the idea that mindgeek doesnt post here is way way wrong, they have people whose JOB it is to post here and other sites but they pose as regular users

second suppose mindgeek did get into the age verification business...honestly how many of you would give credit or debit card info to mindgeek?

The idea of payment processors doing it is actually pretty good but I have to agree that it is NOT going to happen.

And lets not forget if ageverification does happen MindGeek will lose over 1/3rd of its viewers...thats how many are actually UNDER 18. and they know this from their own internal audits

Considering MindGeeks other problems I dont think it would be wise for them to enter the age verification arena ...just my two cents of course...

Why should the UK pay for the giving you access or pay for the necessary measures you need to take with a paysite?

There's too much revenue at stake for them NOT to get involved. Whether MG starts out offering an Age Verification service or just develop one for their own properties they WILL come up with something. Maybe they start with their own AVS then open it up to other sites later on.

As every advertiser knows: the UK is one of the "Big 3" (Canada and the US being the other two) and therefore has some of the world's most valueable traffic. Believe me, no serious business will willingly lose 10% of their business (or more) when it could be prevented.

Exactly. I still think paysites will see a boost because of this situation. Remember, we live in a convenience-driven "I want it now!" world.

You can attack me ad hominum all you want that only degrades your lame arguments.

I have some numbers known to me and the costs.

If I have to pay a VISA NET validation charge through a processor -- a new UK visitor is likely not worth the cost or is now a marginal segment.

You notice no payment processor has joined this conversation.

Mindgeek can do what they want. They are probably not taking any position as there is no real position at this time to take at this time. Tubes make money selling their traffic. If large tube operators have to pay to age verify any segment of traffic they may very well abandon that traffic segment as unprofitable.

Under the schema I proposed -- a JSON Verification API the UK government's *regulator* (whatever the fuck that is) would have maybe 3 million requests to deal with each day. That is going to cost someone a lot of money -- and it won't be me.

The other question is how you maintain state with the age verified status of a visitor? With a cookie, that is the easiest way but is maybe only 70% dependable. As browsers delete cookies -- you would have to revalidate -- and someone will have to bear that cost.

It is not cost efficient to set up a data base for visitors that are not logged in. Browser fingerprinting for identification might be only 85% accurate anyway.

You carry on with your unicorns and rainbows ... Your White Knight is on its way ...

Is he Polish?
Then he's probably going the wrong way.

:D

Is Barry from Poland?

Fuck no. Porn Nerd is talking out of his ass again ... as usual
If you can't argue or debate logically you launch an ad hominum attack

You are out of your class dude.

Why did I think you were Polish?
Ah well, always time for a good Polish joke.
Lighten up Barry, you're paranoid enough as it is. :D

PS: Barry I never called you ad hominum.
I have no problem with gay people.

You are looking at this from a personal perspective and based on free. Look at it from the consumer POV, will he stop looking at porn because he has to verify his age?

This could be a huge boost for the porn industry.

Barry, it is happening. This is something I know about because I have been involved in the process.

It does not matter why, debates about free speech, govt censorship etc are irrelevant.

That argument was lost and the smart ones are getting with the program.

Any govt anywhere in the world can decide what it wants to do and businesses can decide how to work within the framework.

Not sure what you are wittering about re making the UK pay for you to pass their regulations.

You dont expect any other country to meet the transactional costs of your business.

If you dont want GBP customers then you probably dont have a real idea of the size of the market. But that is your decision.

However you are making an awful lot of noise for someone who does not want to be in this market.

:2 cents:

If thats how you want to look at it.

However the Bill went through both houses unopposed. Labour did not say a word.

NewNick -- what Program?

Specifics?

Verification Specifics -- got any?
You are just speaking in generalities so there is no debate on any specifics. I don't think you are on the inside -- just bluffing. Here is your opportunity to prove me wrong -- go for it!

UK says: we are going to make you do this -- you figure out how to do this at you own expense ... bollocks

Markham has no valid opinion because his income will not be affected -- he sold his interest out years ago and with very little to offer, still refuses to go away.

If you want to dispute my numbers -- by all means ...
Bottom line the are 280 some countries in the world and they could start passing these laws anytime they want. And you will be boxed in enforcing external governments' laws if you want their people as customers.

This is not globalization and free trade -- this is jack-ass governments banging their heads against a wall.

The US government took a similar approach and has been restrained in court many times. Maybe, they will pass a law like this, or rewrite the COPA Act based on any success of this UK law -- then you will have to pay to verify all your US traffic or be shut off from the root DNS servers in the USA. This is the slippery slope.

The UK war on porn will fail -- with you or without you.

Bluffing ?

ok whatever.

Allowed methodologies for AV are to be decided by the regulator. This will be the BBFC although this has not been officially announced yet.

We have lobbied hard within govt to ensure that age is the attribute that must be ascertained rather than identity, this leaves the way open for low friction methods such as a mobile DB look up.

We have also sponsored the British Standards Institute to create a PAS (Publically Accepted Specification) that AV methods and companies will be required to gain.

So Barry this is not a war on porn. We just want to separate consenting adults from accessing legal adult material, and children who might stumble upon some free tube full of wall to wall free unrestriced porn.

So - put in the AV method and make some money. Or dont, whatever.

:thumbsup

When the announce the specifics -- not some theoretical bullshit -- I will revisit it -- but the UK government should be the one sending me preverified age traffic -- this is their problem and not mine. The same would apply to any government that wants to control the activities of it's citizens.

You really believe that this will be anonymous?

If you don't pay me I don't work for you -- I'll be looking for my checque from the Chancellor of the Exchequer

That is a good one.

No, it's your problem. If you don't make sure you install a veryfication process on your websites the UK will block your IP. What don't you get about that?

Or do you think US law applies all over the world? Or that the Internet should be free from the law. So you have no recourse if scammed?

Paul, you are on ignore for reason that you are an angry and sick -- and out of respect for your condition I do not want to complicate things for you unnecessarily. Think of it as a *courtesy*

But to humor you, and to point out your foolishness;
I have many servers and IP blocks at my disposal.
As well as many domain names to use.

You are being very naive.
I will just wait and see if UK customer cost of acquisition will be profitable to me.

This is not some stupid check box JavaScript script.
People in the UK with intelligence and money will get around this.
Teeanage kids in the UK will get around this.

The only people I see blocked are people with little money that want to wank for free on the Internet < I won't miss them.

Barry you obviously do not know how much revenue you are getting from the UK OR you are getting such tiny amounts of revenue that you do not care to lose it. But all this raging at the UK Government is silly. Your predictions of doom and outrageous cost are also silly.

The ONLY question on the table is whether you want UK customers or not, period. All your predictions about this or that are foolish nonsense. You don't know the actual cost of anything. LOL Especially if the UK Government hasn't set guidelines yet or put a system in place yet. This will happen when it happens and either you comply or you lose UK revenue.

Maybe you are Russian since you like to argue for argument's sake. :)

blah blah blah ^^^
yadda yadda yadda

You probably believe you can lose money and make it up on the volume.

The Porn Brain-Trust :laughing-

Why is this still being argued?
The plans are already final. This was announced many years ago and there have been many many talks about it, panels, advisor boards and what not. Now they set the final date, and everyone will have to comply. And if you don't your site get blocked from being accessed from the UK. It's very simple. There are no ifs or buts.

Also people keep mentioning Visa/Mastercard, but the age verification can not be done by card (you can get cards when you are 13 in the UK).

The big companies such as Mindgeek have already been working on their age verification system for this for ages. They will be ready. If you are not, your site will just be blocked by the UK ISPs just like many other countries block your sites such as China and arab countries.

As far as I understand Mindgeek will be offering theirs to third parties. So you can just implement theirs and if a user is already verified on say pornhub or one of their other sites, they don't have to verify on your site again.

This is the guy in charge for the product:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-cooke-46586817/?ppe=1

http://i.imgur.com/5CotEQK.png

also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindGe...tion_in_the_UK

http://i.imgur.com/iMb2UvR.png

I don't know what that proves ...
Nothing really

I cannot prove any platform, schema (<whatever>) *cast in stone* either for an Age Verification Platform of any kind other than credit card validation at the costs known to me as I have stated ...

I will defer this for a REAL update -- OK?

If your sites don't comply. They will block you. And the sites that do comply will get the traffic you once had.

If you run a cam service where the girls are covered up in public, you have nothing to worry about. If you run Tube sites, you have nothing to worry about. Comply or lose the traffic.

It's not just me saying this.

Exactly. Barry gets them or someone else gets them. The one thing you can be sure of is Brits will still buy porn. This could be the start of a good thing, no free porn!!!!!

I dream of course, could it ever go back to the time when people weren't obsessed with giving porn away?

Notice how Barry ignores the only point that matters: comply or lose traffic/business. He doesn't say what revenue he gets from the UK so I am guessing that would be zero. If he's not with the cam site in his profile name then what is he doing to earn a living in the adult biz? Not running paysites that's for sure. :)

He's arguing just to argue and ignoring the only relevant point. Besides, let's say barry's figures are 100% accurate. That means he can't afford the cost of doing business in the UK so he's a small-time player so why even listen to him gripe and bitch? More UK pie for us! LOL

Don't bother Paul -- I you are not seen or heard by me

Nor your *nerd ass*

Just a waste of my time

I'm not talking to you. I'm expressing my views to the rest of the people here. Dumbass.

Thinking about it is clear he isn't with xlovecam. Was he sacked or did he leave? Xlovecam is a site where it would be easy to put on a show that complies with the law so he only needs verification for adults who want to pay.

As you point out he might be running a site that barely makes enough money to pay for the extra verification.

Great point about the revenue at stake I shouldn't have taken that for granted. but man what a slippery slope...MG does indeed have the hubris to try it but if they fuck it up they stand to lose everything...and a third of their eyes is a big loss...so do they fudge it and let underage viewers in and take the risk or do they write off those eyes....Thats a good question...remember for MG its ALL about the traffic, without it and LOTS of it everything else crumbles...the traffic is the reason they could take the loss on purchases like Digital Playground and Playboy to name two of many....this will be an interesting watch....

Also I totally agree that paysites will benefit...hugely!

Heres a question for yall

would you add age verification to your site, across the board even foregoing all nudity if the result was tubesites going away?

I know I would...or would have seeing Im out of the paysite biz..

Well, seeing as sales would probably go up tho traffic would go down I would say yes.
But remember, many of the big tubes have Content Partner Programs so they are Affiliates and major sources of traffic. If you can stand to lose that traffic or replace it with social media then I'd say yes.

Tubes would not go away if AVS were mandatory, they would just evolve into a Premium-type situation which many already have now. Only they would offer it for $0.01 or something. Where millions are at stake there's lots of incentive and resources to find a solution.

They would then need their Content Partners even more since they would be charging for access. Free user uploads only go so far if users aren't getting paid.