My views on the West.

[Paul Markham]

The economies of the West are not improving by much. All the wealth slowly goes up to the top. The bottom 50% and maybe more are becoming poorer by the day. The next 30% are treading water. Only the top 20% are gaining in wealth and the top 1% are gaining in huge amounts.

This applies to the US and EU, both sides are guilty of this.

The reasons are simple. Globalisation, migration and automation.

Globalisation is things once made in the West are now made by someone on $2 an hour in the Third World. This has destroyed jobs, both on the shop floor and in management, right top the top excluding the board room. We now buy in from the Third World what we once sold to the Third World.

Mass migration has changed the way we live. Both US and EU. The importation of cheap labour to force down wages and force up profits is bad for the majority. Without the social changes, it inflicts on a country the economic ones are enough to impose a points system. Corbyn says the importation has forced down wages, yet curiously enough he's in favour of it for the public sector NHS and care industries.

Automation will be the biggest change to the way we live. Bigger than the Industrial Revolution if the 1% have their way. It will remove a huge number of jobs, maybe as much as 40%. What will those people do for a living? They can't rely on benefits as there won't be enough people in work to pay the taxes. Will the top 1% pay the taxes to keep the country running?

[BaldBastard]

Ahh load of crock

Lets go back to NZ again
Free trade policy with China, 5% unemployment, only those with jail tattoos and who don't want to work are out of it. Min wage 15 a hour, free healthcare

And all importantly to Old Paul..

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...ble-retirement


USA top Export to China is SoyaBeans...
Now think about that, its 2017 and they sell China.. SoyaBeans. Second is aircrafts and third is.. cotton.

Not really a plan for success is it?

Globalisation, migration and automation is not something to be feared but embraced and face it globalisation, migration and automation has been going on since the first humans walked.

If your country wants a future.. don't sell ice to the Eskimos.

Governments can ready their population for that.. or they can build a wall.

[Paul Markham]

Before you say "Who will buy the goods". Think about 200 or even 100 years ago. Did those sitting on the top worry about that then? No, so long as they were OK they didn't care. So long as a few have enough, they will be fine.

Kim, Putin, Xi Jinping, etc don't care if their people starve or live in poverty. They care about themselves and their friends. Don't think we won't see similar here in the West.

The only thing we have that will stop that is Democracy. The problem is you have to use it. America has lost the will to use it. Trump might be some getting it back, but only a chance. He's not very good but given the choice between him and Clinton. I choose him. I would rather an independent get the job who isn't in the pocket of the billionaires. The next elections will see if he started a change in how the US is ruled.

The EU is anti-democratic. It will hurt Europeans to punish the UK and make sure it scares them from asking for a referendum. If they can. The best solution for Europe and the UK is to have an open trade deal. But that would be the worse for the EU as that would trigger more referendums. Which the EU would lose, then have to ignore or cave in.

40 years ago most people in a medium type job could afford to buy their own home. Today it's only the top 20%. Social care was fine, today it's increasingly under more and more pressure with less and less money coming from the taxpayers.

40 years ago debt was at OK levels. Today it's out of control. We can no longer support ourselves. We live on borrowed money and pay the interests to the 1%. And yet where are the improvements in our lives.

Don't reply with the economy is doing great. What's your economy doing are you living as well as you did 20, 30, o4 40 years ago? Now look into the future and see how that shapes up for you.

Also, don't reply with we can't do anything about it. The power is in the hands of the consumer. What would happen if we bought less from the Third World, it might mean you have less junk, it would mean you give a job to a fellow countryman or keep yours. Because all of us rely on a strong middle class and they are getting smaller and weaker. A billionaire needs one membership, 1,000 need 1,000 memberships.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Ahh load of crock

Lets go back to NZ again
Free trade policy with China, 5% unemployment, only those with jail tattoos and who don't want to work are out of it. Min wage 15 a hour, free healthcare

And all importantly to Old Paul..

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...ble-retirement

The rich are doing very well. You just proved it. What about the rest.

USA top Export to China is SoyaBeans...
Now think about that, its 2017 and they sell China.. SoyaBeans. Second is aircrafts and third is.. cotton.

Its not really a plan for success is it?

how many people work in those industries? You are looking at the picture for a country, not for the people.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Ahh load of crock

Lets go back to NZ again
Free trade policy with China, 5% unemployment, only those with jail tattoos and who don't want to work are out of it. Min wage 15 a hour, free healthcare

And all importantly to Old Paul..

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...ble-retirement


USA top Export to China is SoyaBeans...
Now think about that, its 2017 and they sell China.. SoyaBeans. Second is aircrafts and third is.. cotton.

Not really a plan for success is it?

Globalisation, migration and automation is not something to be feared but embraced and face it globalisation, migration and automation has been going on since the first humans walked.

If your country wants a future.. don't sell ice to the Eskimos.

Governments can ready their population for that.. or they can build a wall.

Yes but NZ is boring place and people are running away from it.

[MrMaxwell]

Half of our women are now feral
Half of our men are now promoting feral women and they are no longer male
We are fucked in hell
As estelle getty always said
"Moving on"

[pimpmaster9000]

there is a china man next to every westerner pointing a gun to his head forcing him to buy cheap china shit...there is another china man next to every western business owner, with a gun pointed to his head, making him not employ westerners...also spoons make people fat...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Ahh load of crock

Lets go back to NZ again
Free trade policy with China, 5% unemployment, only those with jail tattoos and who don't want to work are out of it. Min wage 15 a hour, free healthcare

And all importantly to Old Paul..

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...ble-retirement


USA top Export to China is SoyaBeans...
Now think about that, its 2017 and they sell China.. SoyaBeans. Second is aircrafts and third is.. cotton.

Not really a plan for success is it?

Globalisation, migration and automation is not something to be feared but embraced and face it globalisation, migration and automation has been going on since the first humans walked.

If your country wants a future.. don't sell ice to the Eskimos.

Governments can ready their population for that.. or they can build a wall.

Australia is doing well from China. Doesn't make me wrong though.

[CaptainHowdy]

You tell 'em, Paul ...

[Paul Markham]

I'm often called a Nazi by the libtards here. They are the ones who put all these measures into place and push for them every day. The result is going to be horrible and will trigger a Nazi type uprising of the people. Is that what they want?

I for one don't want that, I want less money in the pockets of the billionaires, less power in the hands of the billionaires and more power and money in the pockets of the Working and middle classes.

You most certainly would not get that with Clinton, Trump might trigger the Americans take back control. It's slim hope but slim is better than none.

The EU is going to have to come to terms with the UK leaving. Will it cut off its nose to spite its face or will it continue to trade with its largest customer? We will see what Europeans will impose over the EU.

[oppoten]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

and the top 1% are gaining in huge amounts.

Gas them and have done with it.

Charlie would

[oppoten]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Globalisation, migration and automation is not something to be feared but embraced and face it globalisation, migration and automation has been going on since the first humans walked.

You praised Merkel and Europe for welcoming "refugees", despite none of it ever going to a popular vote.

If you're feeling bald, ask for your foreskin back.

[RedFred]

OP needs to take up knitting as a hobby.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

You tell 'em, Paul ...

I'm sure he will

[Bladewire]

The more you foreigners post about America, the more clear it is you have no clue about day to day life here. No clue.

You guys are regurgitating your local propoganda. That propoganda tells you Americans are miserable and elected Trump with a mandate to change, this isn't our reality, and it's not true.

Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million, this means the majority of us us aren't buying what he's selling, and the majority of us made a better choice than the shit show Trump.

Trump stoked the embers of racism, white nationalism, and correctly pointed out that our healthcare is too expensive. The people chose Clinton, the electoral college overoad that choice and annointed Trump POTUS.

You pro Trump foreigners either don't understand what this means to Americans and/or don't understand how our political system places a POTUS into office.

Basically, our system worked against our will to put Trump in office, against the will of the majority, that system installed a falty idiot into office. We need to disband the electoral college, they were supposed to protect us from a useful idiot like Trump.

Fortunately Trump is destroying the Republican party

[Rochard]

I'll just leave this here....

[CurrentlySober]

Paul For President 2020 !

[Rochard]

Paul, you had no idea what the United States went through during the recession, and how it recovered. No idea at all. Not a single clue. I detailed this in another post. During the recession everything stopped, lots of people lost their jobs, and lots of people lost their houses. Now.... All of that is gone. No one is looking for work.

The rich get richer, and poor get poorer. This is not new; It's been constant since the United States became a country. Most of us will always be middle class - a house, a job, a car, spouse, few kids, a few hobbies, two vacations a year. People are saying the middle class is dead. The guy behind me built a fucking airplane in his garage (I'm not joking), and all of my friends are going on vacations much nicer than my folks.

Paul, you need to relax a little.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Paul, you had no idea what the United States went through during the recession, and how it recovered. No idea at all. Not a single clue. I detailed this in another post. During the recession everything stopped, lots of people lost their jobs, and lots of people lost their houses. Now.... All of that is gone. No one is looking for work.

The rich get richer, and poor get poorer. This is not new; It's been constant since the United States became a country. Most of us will always be middle class - a house, a job, a car, spouse, few kids, a few hobbies, two vacations a year. People are saying the middle class is dead. The guy behind me built a fucking airplane in his garage (I'm not joking), and all of my friends are going on vacations much nicer than my folks.

Paul, you need to relax a little.

My kid is taking break from school & working at a new restaurant to help a friend out for $14.50 an hour. His friend works in a high rise in Irvine (15 minutes away) at an unskilled job for $16 an hour. My kid interviewed at 3 companies in that highrise yesterday, for unskilled jobs ranging from $16-$19.50 an hour. Unskilled. Unskilled office work pushing paper. They all wanted him to start immediately. It's been like this a couple years here.

Foreigners acting like America is in turmoil, on its last leg, with Trump as our savior, are severely uninformed and puppets of Putin, whether they know it or not

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

My kid is taking break from school & working at a new restaurant to help a friend out for $14.50 an hour. His friend works in a high rise in Irvine (15 minutes away) at an unskilled job for $16 an hour. My kid interviewed at 3 companies in that highrise yesterday, for unskilled jobs ranging from $16-$19.50 an hour. Unskilled. Unskilled office work pushing paper. They all wanted him to start immediately. It's been like this a couple years here.

Foreigners acting like America is in turmoil, on its last leg, with Trump as our savior, are severely uninformed and puppets of Putin, whether they know it or not

Thanks, Trump.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by JFK

I'm sure he will

Too early to call him the St. Paul of Porn ??

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Sarn

Thanks, Trump.

Trump hasn't been president the last 2 years you Russian moron. Learn to read English correctly before you respond. You are literally the first Russian I've ever found irritating in a negative way

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Trump hasn't been president the last 2 years you Russian moron. Learn to read English correctly before you respond. You are literally the first Russian I've ever found irritating in a negative way

it was trolling))

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Sarn

it was trolling))

It was you not reading English with precision you're too sloppy to troll effectively

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

My kid is taking break from school & working at a new restaurant to help a friend out for $14.50 an hour. His friend works in a high rise in Irvine (15 minutes away) at an unskilled job for $16 an hour. My kid interviewed at 3 companies in that highrise yesterday, for unskilled jobs ranging from $16-$19.50 an hour. Unskilled. Unskilled office work pushing paper. They all wanted him to start immediately. It's been like this a couple years here.

Foreigners acting like America is in turmoil, on its last leg, with Drumpf as our savior, are severely uninformed and puppets of Putin, whether they know it or not

We went through a very difficult period for sure. I live in a new community; We were the quickest growing city in the US... (From Wikipedia: Located in an area of rapid suburban development, it grew 282.1 percent between 2000 and 2010, making it the fastest growing city over 10,000 people in the U.S.) When the recession hit everything just fucking stopped. It was stunning. Buildings, shopping complexes, condo complexes were started and then just left to rot half built.

People don't understand how bad this was. This was not a four or eight year problem. It was a ten year problem - or longer.

We are doing better now. Thankfully.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The economies of the West are not improving by much. All the wealth slowly goes up to the top. The bottom 50% and maybe more are becoming poorer by the day. The next 30% are treading water. Only the top 20% are gaining in wealth and the top 1% are gaining in huge amounts.

This applies to the US and EU, both sides are guilty of this.

The reasons are simple. Globalisation, migration and automation.

Globalisation is things once made in the West are now made by someone on $2 an hour in the Third World. This has destroyed jobs, both on the shop floor and in management, right top the top excluding the board room. We now buy in from the Third World what we once sold to the Third World.

Mass migration has changed the way we live. Both US and EU. The importation of cheap labour to force down wages and force up profits is bad for the majority. Without the social changes, it inflicts on a country the economic ones are enough to impose a points system. Corbyn says the importation has forced down wages, yet curiously enough he's in favour of it for the public sector NHS and care industries.

Automation will be the biggest change to the way we live. Bigger than the Industrial Revolution if the 1% have their way. It will remove a huge number of jobs, maybe as much as 40%. What will those people do for a living? They can't rely on benefits as there won't be enough people in work to pay the taxes. Will the top 1% pay the taxes to keep the country running?

Automation is progress. Of course it would be an old person's mindset that we need to keep people doing jobs machines could do. Instead of complaining about automation, maybe the jobless could get into the automation business.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Automation is progress. Of course it would be an old person's mindset that we need to keep people doing jobs machines could do. Instead of complaining about automation, maybe the jobless could get into the automation business.

That's just it. They told us computers were coming, how much easier our lives would be, and we all feared losing our jobs to computers.... But in reality, the work force just shifted. We need less bankers, accountants, and pencil pushers, but now we need people to design, build, test, sell, install, and maintain computer networks.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

The more you foreigners post about America, the more clear it is you have no clue about day to day life here. No clue.

You guys are regurgitating your local propoganda. That propoganda tells you Americans are miserable and elected Trump with a mandate to change, this isn't our reality, and it's not true.

Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million, this means the majority of us us aren't buying what he's selling, and the majority of us made a better choice than the shit show Trump.

Trump stoked the embers of racism, white nationalism, and correctly pointed out that our healthcare is too expensive. The people chose Clinton, the electoral college overoad that choice and annointed Trump POTUS.

You pro Trump foreigners either don't understand what this means to Americans and/or don't understand how our political system places a POTUS into office.

Basically, our system worked against our will to put Trump in office, against the will of the majority, that system installed a falty idiot into office. We need to disband the electoral college, they were supposed to protect us from a useful idiot like Trump.

Fortunately Trump is destroying the Republican party

This thread isn't about America and Trump. It's about a lot of other things. If Americans don't have the will to wake up and vote for a Government they want to be ruled by, then that affects everyone.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Paul, you had no idea what the United States went through during the recession, and how it recovered. No idea at all. Not a single clue. I detailed this in another post. During the recession everything stopped, lots of people lost their jobs, and lots of people lost their houses. Now.... All of that is gone. No one is looking for work.

The rich get richer, and poor get poorer. This is not new; It's been constant since the United States became a country. Most of us will always be middle class - a house, a job, a car, spouse, few kids, a few hobbies, two vacations a year. People are saying the middle class is dead. The guy behind me built a fucking airplane in his garage (I'm not joking), and all of my friends are going on vacations much nicer than my folks.

Paul, you need to relax a little.

The reason the Banking crisis hit the world so hard was because we have given away our manufacturing industry.

People are looking for jobs and you know where they are, they're in the manufacturing areas. They've been looking for them ever since the jobs were shipped out of the country and the products they once made. Shipped back in.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

My kid is taking break from school & working at a new restaurant to help a friend out for $14.50 an hour. His friend works in a high rise in Irvine (15 minutes away) at an unskilled job for $16 an hour. My kid interviewed at 3 companies in that highrise yesterday, for unskilled jobs ranging from $16-$19.50 an hour. Unskilled. Unskilled office work pushing paper. They all wanted him to start immediately. It's been like this a couple years here.

Foreigners acting like America is in turmoil, on its last leg, with Trump as our savior, are severely uninformed and puppets of Putin, whether they know it or not

Go tell that to the children of people living in the areas where cars, steel, etc were made.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Go tell that to the children of people living in the areas where cars, steel, etc were made.

People go where the jobs are. What kind of idiot stays in an area where they have no job and there's no work? Survival of the fittest.

Remember, Trump lost the vote by over 3 million, there was not a populist uprising that elected Trump.

[Paul Markham]

The approach of some Americans on the board that everything would be fine if only we had Clinton in power is amazing. Clinton has been in power for 3 decades, during which more jobs exited, poverty increased and more money went to the top than ever before. Clinton is part of the problem, not the solution.

Obama did OK and no more. He nearly doubled the debt. How many jobs did he create with his borrowing $8 trillion create? How much more will America need to borrow to keep his measures in place? This is the costs of sending jobs overseas so we can buy the goods back at lower prices.

People want jobs that pay a decent wage, not handouts.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

People go where the jobs are. What kind of idiot stays in an area where they have no job and there's no work? Survival of the fittest.

Remember, Trump lost the vote by over 3 million, there was not a populist uprising that elected Trump.

Do people go the Third World? Seems you lost that one.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The approach of some Americans on the board that everything would be fine if only we had Clinton in power is amazing. Clinton has been in power for 3 decades, during which more jobs exited, poverty increased and more money went to the top than ever before. Clinton is part of the problem, not the solution.

Obama did OK and no more. He nearly doubled the debt. How many jobs did he create with his borrowing $8 trillion create? How much more will America need to borrow to keep his measures in place? This is the costs of sending jobs overseas so we can buy the goods back at lower prices.

People want jobs that pay a decent wage, not handouts.

So true
We cannot survive klintons and bushes forever
I hope trump burns down the forest

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The approach of some Americans on the board that everything would be fine if only we had Clinton in power is amazing. Clinton has been in power for 3 decades, during which more jobs exited, poverty increased and more money went to the top than ever before. Clinton is part of the problem, not the solution.

Obama did OK and no more. He nearly doubled the debt. How many jobs did he create with his borrowing $8 trillion create? How much more will America need to borrow to keep his measures in place? This is the costs of sending jobs overseas so we can buy the goods back at lower prices.

People want jobs that pay a decent wage, not handouts.

Obama raised the minimum wage countrywide and lowered unemployment to a record low Paul. This is part of the reason why 3 million more Americans voted for Clinton over Trump.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Obama raised the minimum wage countrywide and lowered unemployment to a record low Paul. This is part of the reason why 3 million more Americans voted for Clinton over Trump.

How many jobs did get for $8 trillion?

He could have brought manufacturing back and created them for very little.

[MaDalton]

Unions and Thatcher destroyed the manufacturing industry in the UK - not the EU

Last week in Scotland I saw several signs "financed by EU" - let's see how that works out without EU money

and now banks start moving jobs: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-bankers/

good luck with that

[Paul Markham]

Seems the jobs created come at a high price. The graph shows very clearly the money that America has to borrow is increasing. Not since WW2 has debt been so high. This is the downside of sending jobs abroad then buying the goods back again.

This is the price you will have to pay or/and your children will have to pay. Because you didn't want to pay an American to get a job.

$8 trillion divided by how many real jobs did that $8 trillion get you? 1 million, that would be a good number. That's a lot to be paying per job, it's cheaper to just give the money away. Do the maths of what 1 million divided by $8 trillion is.

All because you can't give jobs to Americans to make stuff Americans will buy. You would rather make the goods abroad, borrow the money, put millions on low wages or unemployed and hope that works.

I've news for you, it won't work. That debt isn't going down. It will come back to you. the problems will start to arise once you reach 120% to 130% of GDP. How long before that happens? Trump might bring it down, it's jobs that produce goods you can sell at home instead of import that will reduce the debt. Will the billionaires allow him to? Clinton is part of the system that's sending jobs abroad. So don't tell me she's the answer.

UK debt is also worrying. At a time when government spending is being cut, they refuse to stop mass migration. The bosses are happy though.

[beerptrol]

Originally Posted by Sarn

Thanks, Trump.

thanks chump
Mar-a-Lago Club seeks more foreign workers - CNNPolitics.com

[Paul Markham]

I thought my last post would shut up the Clinton and Obama support groups. Do you really think those jobs created came for free?

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Do people go the Third World? Seems you lost that one.

Yes people go-to the third world and eastern Europe to live a better life off their pensions & retirement. 95% of Americans are working so your point is moot if you're implying we'd need to move to the 3rd world for work. You're deflecting , yet again.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Yes people go-to the third world and eastern Europe to live a better life off their pensions & retirement. 95% of Americans are working so your point is moot if you're implying we'd need to move to the 3rd world for work. You're deflecting , yet again.

You really are missing the point.

Would the Ford Workers go to Mexico when their company opens up there? Or the Boeing workers go to China, same with Coca Cola, clothing, steel, ship building, etc. The parent company might be in the West, but the workers are in the cheapest possible country and taxes are funnelled into a tax haven.

Of course, the goods they make are produced in the Third World are sold in the First. All with the help of people like Clinton. She's part of the Government and it's her job to look after her voters, not the donors who pay her.

Trump might make America wake up, it's a slim hope but people take slim hopes when they are offered them. Even the others weren't offering to bring jobs back to America some like Hillary was in favour of sending more abroad.

The First World needs to stop sending the life blood of its economies to the Third World.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by beerptrol

thanks chump
Mar-a-Lago Club seeks more foreign workers - CNNPolitics.com

Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club and his golf course in Jupiter, Florida, have filed documents to bring in additional foreign workers under the H-2B visa program, which allows foreigners to fill temporary non-agriculture jobs in the United States that supposedly cannot be filled by US workers.

Bringing in foreign workers isn't unique to Trump, every billionaire would do it if he had the chance. Most send jobs abroad to save not only on the wages but other costs as well. Then declare the profits in a tax haven. Leaving us to pick up the costs.

Would they do that if their tax bill went up by the same amount they saved in wages or the goods landed with a tariff the equivalent they saved by manufacturing overseas?

At the moment the costs are put into the debt bill, so our children can deal with it.

Don't blame the players, blame the game.