Do you think the US will ever adopt a Canada- / UK-style healthcare system? - GoFuckYourself.com

mce · 11-21-2018, 11:51 PM

See title. If you think the US will never go that route, care to explain why?

OldJeff · 11-22-2018, 04:26 AM

Yes, The millennial group that are really just now coming into their own will eventually move into the positions of steering society. Their entire life has been much more in touch with the world, and are not set in the ways of 'Merica.

Through direct contact with people around the world they get the real truth about what social programs are like, what taxes and such are really like in other countries.

They know there are no Death lines because of socialized medicine, etc.

They probably also understand that Social Security, Education, Police, Fireman, The court system, and even the military are all socialism, and that socialism is not evil.

(pretty sure this post is going to make Crockett's head explode since in his world I am a TrumpLet because I disagree with most of his hate fueled drivel)

Busty2 · 11-22-2018, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mce

See title. If you think the US will never go that route, care to explain why?

I doubt they will, because most people are under the misguided impression that UK healthcare is free. It's far from it. When i left the UK 22 years ago i was paying £1600 a month that was around $2400. For National Insurance, this was for health care and pensions+ 40% Tax on income. 22 years later its probably way more than that?

mce · 11-22-2018, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busty2

I doubt they will, because most people are under the misguided impression that UK healthcare is free. It's far from it. When i left the UK 22 years ago i was paying £1600 a month that was around $2400. For National Insurance, this was for health care and pensions+ 40% Tax on income. 22 years later its probably way more than that?

WHOA! That's HUGE, dude! How's the quality of the care?

wehateporn · 11-22-2018, 05:13 AM

The corrupt Big Pharma are too powerful, you would need a revolution to stop their evil, more likely UK ends up going over to the US system as Big Pharma is out to destroy their National Healthcare System

Paul Markham · 11-22-2018, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busty2

I doubt they will, because most people are under the misguided impression that UK healthcare is free. It's far from it. When i left the UK 22 years ago i was paying £1600 a month that was around $2400. For National Insurance, this was for health care and pensions+ 40% Tax on income. 22 years later its probably way more than that?

Healthcare is by no means free. It's only free at the point of supply.

Your $600 a week paid for a lot more than healthcare. It covered all Government spending of which healthcare is just a part of.

As you can see most is spent on welfare. That covers Unemployment, pensions, then health then education. Can it be cut? In my opinion yes but not only by austerity, reducing the population will reduce unemployment while raising wages for the masses.

To answer the question asked by the OP. No. Not while the Pharma industry buys politicians.

Paul Markham · 11-22-2018, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mce

WHOA! That's HUGE, dude! How's the quality of the care?

The quality depends on where you live. But comparing it with America private health care it's not so good.

However the private healthcare told my brother his insurance didn't cover him so the only option was paying and that costs a fortune. The Medicaid system said he wasn't worth covering.

My Father had a heart bypass on Medicaid, then a year later got a swollen major blood vessel. My Mother phoned the paramedics who arrived very fast, they took him to the nearest small hospital with a helicopter, so they could take him to the large hospital who had operated on him. Unfortunately the small private hospital didn't take him anywhere they did test on him thinking he had insurance. In the afternoon his blood vessel exploded and he died.

The small hospital was unable to do heart operations so the tests were pointless. They did send my Mother the bill for the tests. She told them she wasn't paying.

directfiesta · 11-22-2018, 06:12 AM

No, that's a commie idea ......

Busty2 · 11-22-2018, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mce

WHOA! That's HUGE, dude! How's the quality of the care?

The quality was excellent, the issue was speed. For example if you needed a hip replacement which was non life threatening you could wait years. That seems to have improved a lot as my sister who still lives in the UK. Tripped in a restaurant recently and busted her hip. She was taken in the same day. She fell again and again was taken in the same day, they also found she needed a pacemaker which was implanted within a week. So it looks like they have improved the speed quite a bit. No bills even for the ambulances which used to be separate from the Hospitals and cost a fortune, cost to her, zero.

Sadly even though i paid in more than $864,000 over the 35 years i worked in the UK i will get zero back for it, thats was my choice, i didn't have to move to the states!

BaldBastard · 11-22-2018, 08:26 AM

I think USA would be more likely to follow the Australian system... Poms would rather die than part with a pound..

Here you pay 1.5% of tax for health care, BUT insurance is deductible against that

So while there's health care for everyone, 80% have insurance as it's deductible

Even Trump said he liked our system

VRPdommy · 11-22-2018, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mce

See title. If you think the US will never go that route, care to explain why?

Yes, for lots of reasons but let's start with the obvious...

The cost has been and will be out of control. Free markets pretty much unregulated, are about to price themselves out of existence !

The system has been gamed at every step of the care. Because they can ! They all resisted any form of regulation. So this is what you get. Uncontrolled capitalism at it's best.

The only thing keeping it together now is government subsidy. You are going to own it in the end no matter what.
The difference is how many get hurt when it comes tumbling down. That has been happening while you watch and some get rich from it.

Not making any argument against capitalism as greed is good. It drives us. Uncontrolled capitalism will always end in failure.

Some things only the government can do best. While many can make fair arguments against that, you have to fix the issues with it not stop it all. (don't throw the baby out with the bathwater)

The problem at this point is how to transition.
Medicare for all is not a bad idea if it were just general healthcare and leave the private insurance markets to deal with major medical.
That might allow a transition without re-inventing the wheel.

MaDalton · 11-22-2018, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

man, it's really good that you leave the EU to save those 28 pounds that gave you access to the common market and fueled your economy

because now they can go to the NHS like Nigel and Boris promised

ianmoone332000 · 11-22-2018, 10:04 AM

Yeah but the single market comes with freedom of movement and you have no control over immigration. If they had controlled immigration instead of throwing the doors open we would never have even had a referendum never mind voting to leave. Uncontrolled immigration caused Brexit. Blame the politicians who allowed it to happen and not the people that voted to leave

ianmoone332000 · 11-22-2018, 10:14 AM

And here is Hillary Clinton amongst others saying Europe needs to stop mass immigration:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-trump-brexit

Even Tony Blair saying it must be stopped. If Hillary and Tony had faced the truth 5 years ago then Brexit and Trump would never have happened

Rochard · 11-22-2018, 11:20 AM

I think eventually we will no matter what. It's just a matter of time. Clearly what we currently have isn't working.

MaDalton · 11-22-2018, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmoone332000

Yeah but the single market comes with freedom of movement and you have no control over immigration. If they had controlled immigration instead of throwing the doors open we would never have even had a referendum never mind voting to leave. Uncontrolled immigration caused Brexit. Blame the politicians who allowed it to happen and not the people that voted to leave

60% of your immigrants are from other countries than EU, mostly India, Pakistan etc - Brexit will change nothing in that regards.

You are just going to lose your polish plumbers, nurses and hairdressers.

Also: Brexit was caused by people like Nigel and Boris lying to you and you sucked it up. By now it has been established that they bullshitted you and Brexit negotiations have shown that either not much will change cause you will have to remain mostly connected to the EU or it will end up in wild chaos.

Congrats, you've been duped, following generations will hate you for that.

MaDalton · 11-22-2018, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmoone332000

And here is Hillary Clinton amongst others saying Europe needs to stop mass immigration:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-trump-brexit

Even Tony Blair saying it must be stopped. If Hillary and Tony had faced the truth 5 years ago then Brexit and Trump would never have happened

PS: I don't think anyone supports illegal mass immigration.

But let's also keep in mind that the western world still delivers the bombs that get dropped on those people and that we still fuck up the climate that makes large parts of Africa uninhabitable.

You don't want immigrants? Stop supporting governments that cause them. Interestingly enough it's the conservatives and nationalists that insist on delivering weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia or promote burning oil and coal. But at the same time tell you to fear the immigrants their policies cause.

But hey, what do I care, keep digging your own graves.

ianmoone332000 · 11-22-2018, 12:41 PM

Nope. I wanted out of the EU long before any referendum and so did millions of people. Im for immigration, just not crazy mass immigration. Growing up in Britain, we always had foreign folk. Hell i am friends with Chinese, Pakistani, Indians and more people. It honestly feels like since Tony Blair opened the borders in 2004 that its just became more of an issue each year. Time the referendum came, people had just had enough. We are now going through it again with Islam in this country. People are reaching that same breaking point but the politicians will just keep ignoring it again. Far easier to brand people racist nazis for daring to question it

kane · 11-22-2018, 12:47 PM

It may not be exactly like those system. As was stated, it might look more like the Aussie system, but I think we will have some kind of national healthcare. The cost of healthcare is quickly getting to the point where the average person either can't afford it or, even if they have it, if they have some kind of serious illness it ends up bankrupting them. This can only go on so long before it starts to further destroy the middle class.

As was also mentioned, Millennials are starting to come into power and they are very much for this type of system. It won't happen tomorrow, but I think in the next 20 years we will have some kind national healthcare system.

ianmoone332000 · 11-22-2018, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

PS: I don't think anyone supports illegal mass immigration.

But let's also keep in mind that the western world still delivers the bombs that get dropped on those people and that we still fuck up the climate that makes large parts of Africa uninhabitable.

You don't want immigrants? Stop supporting governments that cause them. Interestingly enough it's the conservatives and nationalists that insist on delivering weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia or promote burning oil and coal. But at the same time tell you to fear the immigrants their policies cause.

But hey, what do I care, keep digging your own graves.

Oh im with you on a lot of that statement. My wife was in both Iraq and Afghan. That was George Bush & Tony Blair going for oil. Stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia and the rest of them too. Still think mass immigration is a massive mistake and i dont just mean illegal immigration

mce · 11-22-2018, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think eventually we will no matter what. It's just a matter of time. Clearly what we currently have isn't working.

The main issues are PHARMA COSTS and pre-existing conditions

MaDalton · 11-22-2018, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmoone332000

Nope. I wanted out of the EU long before any referendum and so did millions of people. Im for immigration, just not crazy mass immigration. Growing up in Britain, we always had foreign folk. Hell i am friends with Chinese, Pakistani, Indians and more people. It honestly feels like since Tony Blair opened the borders in 2004 that its just became more of an issue each year. Time the referendum came, people had just had enough. We are now going through it again with Islam in this country. People are reaching that same breaking point but the politicians will just keep ignoring it again. Far easier to brand people racist nazis for daring to question it

But your muslim problems will remain exactly the same - they don't come from the EU, you can't enter the UK from Schengen without passport control, maybe a few manage to slip through by hiding on a truck or something like that.

Your muslims are mostly Pakistani, a country you Brits basically created after ruining India.

They will not go away after Brexit, you will only lose those that come to the UK to work (like the Poles).

Ok, maybe you will avoid some Romanian or Slovak gypsies - but probably not even that cause the EU will not allow participating in the common market without free movement.

That leaves only hard Brexit as a solution to that problem - and that means you will be really fucked. I would already start stocking up on food supplies if I was you - I am reading how your army is already preparing for that case.

Mr. Deltoid · 11-22-2018, 04:34 PM

No, the medicare system in Canada's provinces are ballooning in costs and, in the longer-term, won't prove sustainable. The queues alone are totally unacceptable.

We'll probably adopt a private tier in the 20s -- a hybrid system seems ideal from a number of angles. Right now, the US basically serves as our private tier. I'd rather keep those physicians and dollars here.

Paul Markham · 11-23-2018, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

man, it's really good that you leave the EU to save those 28 pounds that gave you access to the common market and fueled your economy

because now they can go to the NHS like Nigel and Boris promised

We voted Out so all laws effective in the UK are made in the UK for the benefit of the UK. Not in Brussels and work best for other countries.

Paul Markham · 11-23-2018, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

60% of your immigrants are from other countries than EU, mostly India, Pakistan etc - Brexit will change nothing in that regards.

You are just going to lose your polish plumbers, nurses and hairdressers.

You have good point there and some silly ones.

British are pissed off with the overall numbers of migrants entering into the UK. They don't mind skilled migrants coming in, but plumbers and hairdressers aren't skills we never had. They now go to people who undercut British workers.

Skilled professions should be trained more from the present population instead of saving money and relying on other countries to train and then lose them.

Paul Markham · 11-23-2018, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmoone332000

Oh im with you on a lot of that statement. My wife was in both Iraq and Afghan. That was George Bush & Tony Blair going for oil. Stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia and the rest of them too. Still think mass immigration is a massive mistake and i dont just mean illegal immigration

Not selling arms to countries like Saudi, means they buy them from Russia and China and won't stop the fighting. It will mean Americans and British lose jobs, make more people unemployed and effect the balance of trade. Will you pay more in taxes to support your ideas?

Paul Markham · 11-23-2018, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

But your muslim problems will remain exactly the same - they don't come from the EU, you can't enter the UK from Schengen without passport control, maybe a few manage to slip through by hiding on a truck or something like that.

Your muslims are mostly Pakistani, a country you Brits basically created after ruining India.

They will not go away after Brexit, you will only lose those that come to the UK to work (like the Poles).

Ok, maybe you will avoid some Romanian or Slovak gypsies - but probably not even that cause the EU will not allow participating in the common market without free movement.

That leaves only hard Brexit as a solution to that problem - and that means you will be really fucked. I would already start stocking up on food supplies if I was you - I am reading how your army is already preparing for that case.

Britain didn't create Pakistan after it granted independence. The Muslims in then India created it. Read up on history.

A working EU migrant isn't necessarily good thing. It's long been recognised that mass migration is compressing wages, puts more people onto the welfare system, raises house demand, causes problem in the education and healthcare sectors. A low skilled or unskilled or non working migrant is a drain on the country. Unlike you and me who brought jobs and wealth into Czech.

Did the EU Commission know that allowing mass migration would hurt the working class of the wealthy countries the most?

Paul Markham · 11-23-2018, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

PS: I don't think anyone supports illegal mass immigration.

But let's also keep in mind that the western world still delivers the bombs that get dropped on those people and that we still fuck up the climate that makes large parts of Africa uninhabitable.

You don't want immigrants? Stop supporting governments that cause them. Interestingly enough it's the conservatives and nationalists that insist on delivering weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia or promote burning oil and coal. But at the same time tell you to fear the immigrants their policies cause.

But hey, what do I care, keep digging your own graves.

So the West should stand back and allow terrorists to take over the world? You do realise that without the US coalition into Afghanistan Al Qaeda would have carried on with even more deadly attacks than 9/11?

Invading Iraq was a criminal act led by Bush and Blair who both need to be tried on what they did.

Bombing Libya was another mistake. Leaving Qaddafi in power was best for the region. Obama should face up to the mess he caused.

Not backing Saddam in Syria was a big mistake and we now have to fight ISIS and other terrorist groups to keep them out of power.

As a German do you believe the UK should have stood back and not gone to war with Germany?

NewNick · 11-23-2018, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Britain didn't create Pakistan after it granted independence. The Muslims in then India created it. Read up on history.

FFS Markham.

It is you that needs to read up. Because you are completely wrong. Fucking idiot.

Paul Markham · 11-23-2018, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

FFS Markham.

It is you that needs to read up. Because you are completely wrong. Fucking idiot.

Read this.

Quote:

The British had neither the will, nor the financial resources or military power, to hold India any longer but they were also determined to avoid partition and for this purpose they arranged the Cabinet Mission Plan. According to this plan India would be kept united but would be heavily decentralized with separate groupings of Hindu and Muslim majority provinces. The Muslim League accepted this plan as it contained the 'essence' of Pakistan but the Congress rejected it. After the failure of the Cabinet Mission Plan, Jinnah called for Muslims to observe Direct Action Day to demand the creation of a separate Pakistan. The Direct Action Day morphed into violent riots between Hindus and Muslims in Calcutta. The riots in Calcutta were followed by intense communal rioting between Hindus and Muslims in Noakhali, Bihar, Garhmukteshwar and Rawalpindi.

The British Prime Minister Attlee appointed Lord Louis Mountbatten as India's last viceroy, to negotiate the independence of Pakistan and India and immediate British withdrawal. British leaders including Mountbatten did not support the creation of Pakistan but failed to convince Jinnah otherwise. Mountbatten later confessed that he would most probably have sabotaged the creation of Pakistan had he known that Jinnah was dying of tuberculosis.

As you see wee tried to keep them as one, but the Muslims wouldn't accept that, the Congress wouldn't and the Hindu and Muslims rioted.

Seems I was right and you are wrong.

mce · 11-24-2018, 12:33 PM

Would it be worth it for the US to switch to such a system?

thommy · 11-24-2018, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmoone332000

Oh im with you on a lot of that statement. My wife was in both Iraq and Afghan. That was George Bush & Tony Blair going for oil. Stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia and the rest of them too.

agree !

Quote:

Still think mass immigration is a massive mistake and i dont just mean illegal immigration

if the first part is the case the second part would not exist.

EVERY western country NEEDS immigration - we have enough jobs for them nobody wants to do.

refugees is a very other topic.
most of them did not come to stay - to help them is just a human obligation especially because we sold the weapons for the wars they are facing.

mce · 11-24-2018, 03:45 PM

Put in another way: is there a FREE MARKET SOLUTION to healthcare in the US that is AFFORDABLE and ACCESSIBLE?

11-21-2018, 11:51 PM	#1
mce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: All Over Posts: 3,917	Do you think the US will ever adopt a Canada- / UK-style healthcare system? See title. If you think the US will never go that route, care to explain why? __________________ Pay Virtual Assistants Based on RESULTS instead of TIME STOP getting FUCKED IN THE ASS by your VA

11-22-2018, 04:26 AM	#2
OldJeff Big Fucking hahahaha Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,786	Yes, The millennial group that are really just now coming into their own will eventually move into the positions of steering society. Their entire life has been much more in touch with the world, and are not set in the ways of 'Merica. Through direct contact with people around the world they get the real truth about what social programs are like, what taxes and such are really like in other countries. They know there are no Death lines because of socialized medicine, etc. They probably also understand that Social Security, Education, Police, Fireman, The court system, and even the military are all socialism, and that socialism is not evil. (pretty sure this post is going to make Crockett's head explode since in his world I am a TrumpLet because I disagree with most of his hate fueled drivel) __________________ "As pornographers we must act responsibly! ;))" - Nickatilynx Send traffic to the sites that make the most money and grow up. ~ Paul Markham PUT PAUL IN THE HALL

11-22-2018, 05:13 AM	#5
wehateporn Promoting Debate on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,172	The corrupt Big Pharma are too powerful, you would need a revolution to stop their evil, more likely UK ends up going over to the US system as Big Pharma is out to destroy their National Healthcare System __________________ Sexy Girls Teasing

11-22-2018, 10:04 AM	#13
ianmoone332000 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,704	Yeah but the single market comes with freedom of movement and you have no control over immigration. If they had controlled immigration instead of throwing the doors open we would never have even had a referendum never mind voting to leave. Uncontrolled immigration caused Brexit. Blame the politicians who allowed it to happen and not the people that voted to leave __________________ Still the best money making live cam site in the world

11-22-2018, 10:14 AM	#14
ianmoone332000 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,704	And here is Hillary Clinton amongst others saying Europe needs to stop mass immigration: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-trump-brexit Even Tony Blair saying it must be stopped. If Hillary and Tony had faced the truth 5 years ago then Brexit and Trump would never have happened __________________ Still the best money making live cam site in the world

11-22-2018, 06:12 AM	#8
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida Posts: 29,567	No, that's a commie idea ......

11-22-2018, 08:26 AM	#10
BaldBastard Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 15,402	I think USA would be more likely to follow the Australian system... Poms would rather die than part with a pound.. Here you pay 1.5% of tax for health care, BUT insurance is deductible against that So while there's health care for everyone, 80% have insurance as it's deductible Even Trump said he liked our system

11-22-2018, 11:20 AM	#15
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 71,128	I think eventually we will no matter what. It's just a matter of time. Clearly what we currently have isn't working. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

11-22-2018, 12:41 PM	#18
ianmoone332000 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,704	Nope. I wanted out of the EU long before any referendum and so did millions of people. Im for immigration, just not crazy mass immigration. Growing up in Britain, we always had foreign folk. Hell i am friends with Chinese, Pakistani, Indians and more people. It honestly feels like since Tony Blair opened the borders in 2004 that its just became more of an issue each year. Time the referendum came, people had just had enough. We are now going through it again with Islam in this country. People are reaching that same breaking point but the politicians will just keep ignoring it again. Far easier to brand people racist nazis for daring to question it __________________ Still the best money making live cam site in the world

11-22-2018, 12:47 PM	#19
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	It may not be exactly like those system. As was stated, it might look more like the Aussie system, but I think we will have some kind of national healthcare. The cost of healthcare is quickly getting to the point where the average person either can't afford it or, even if they have it, if they have some kind of serious illness it ends up bankrupting them. This can only go on so long before it starts to further destroy the middle class. As was also mentioned, Millennials are starting to come into power and they are very much for this type of system. It won't happen tomorrow, but I think in the next 20 years we will have some kind national healthcare system.

11-22-2018, 04:34 PM	#23
Mr. Deltoid Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 132	No, the medicare system in Canada's provinces are ballooning in costs and, in the longer-term, won't prove sustainable. The queues alone are totally unacceptable. We'll probably adopt a private tier in the 20s -- a hybrid system seems ideal from a number of angles. Right now, the US basically serves as our private tier. I'd rather keep those physicians and dollars here.

11-24-2018, 12:33 PM	#31
mce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: All Over Posts: 3,917	Would it be worth it for the US to switch to such a system? __________________ Pay Virtual Assistants Based on RESULTS instead of TIME STOP getting FUCKED IN THE ASS by your VA

11-24-2018, 03:45 PM	#33
mce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: All Over Posts: 3,917	Put in another way: is there a FREE MARKET SOLUTION to healthcare in the US that is AFFORDABLE and ACCESSIBLE? __________________ Pay Virtual Assistants Based on RESULTS instead of TIME STOP getting FUCKED IN THE ASS by your VA