How our industry has changed - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

12clicks · 10-20-2019, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I've been retired for 11 years, do you make the money we made when we were working?

Why do you feature porn in your signature if it gives the wrong impression?

who's "we"? you got a mouse in your pocket? You never made money in this business. You barely geeked out a living for a few years. Now you're a two bit pensioner who, instead of earning money, wants to spend his days on a chat board pretending to have relevance.

fuzebox · 10-20-2019, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

So great, what you are saying is a webmaster with a small budget (say under $1000 a month) cannot play this game, is wasting his money and will never get any good traffic? That only experienced media buyers working for large companies with huge budgets can turn a profit?

Yes, that is 100% correct. The prices are set by the biggest companies with the biggest budgets and highest margins. If AFF is expecting $100 out of a user and is paying $80 of that to an affiliate, they will easily spend $80-120 to try to get that user from the media buy, which a small affiliate cannot compete with. $1000/mo gtfo

Quote:

Hey Thommy, instead of writing WALLS OF TEXT that really helps no one - since these large companies and media buyers already know what to do and do not need your advice - how about showing the rest of us how a SMALL Webmaster or company can buy traffic and make a profit. Hmm?

I'm not Thommy, but small webmasters can find wins in smaller, non-english speaking geos with specific mobile/dating offers for those geos. $6 pin submits in croatia and shit like that.

thommy · 10-20-2019, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

So great, what you are saying is a webmaster with a small budget (say under $1000 a month) cannot play this game, is wasting his money and will never get any good traffic? That only experienced media buyers working for large companies with huge budgets can turn a profit?

a webmaster is not a mediabuyer and his job should not be to sell.
a webmaster is generating traffic as this is or SHOULD be where he is good.

a webmaster what is doing that will not die he will profit from this professional buyers with the big budgets.

the title webmaster does not say that he must do all - he must do what he is good in.

Quote:

Gee how wonderful, hopeful and exciting! So all us Webmasters should just go home and let big companies do everything? Great.

a watch is running because of many bigger and smaller wheels.
but every wheel in it is important.

Quote:

Hey Thommy, instead of writing WALLS OF TEXT that really helps no one - since these large companies and media buyers already know what to do and do not need your advice - how about showing the rest of us how a SMALL Webmaster or company can buy traffic and make a profit. Hmm?

this answer is quite simple: do what you can do better than others and concentrate on it. if you waste time with too many things not one of it will work because you will never be as good as one that is focused on one thing and knows all about it.

thommy · 10-20-2019, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Yes, that is 100% correct. The prices are set by the biggest companies with the biggest budgets and highest margins. If AFF is expecting $100 out of a user and is paying $80 of that to an affiliate, they will easily spend $80-120 to try to get that user from the media buy, which a small affiliate cannot compete with. $1000/mo gtfo

what he forget here is that the webmaster/publisher will also make more on this traffic.
so why should a webmaster try to market it on risk and lower profit when he can make the same or more with no risk?

Quote:

I'm not Thommy, but small webmasters can find wins in smaller, non-english speaking geos with specific mobile/dating offers for those geos. $6 pin submits in croatia and shit like that.

i am not sure what you mean here with "webmaster" - for me a webmaster ist the one that get´s the traffic on his site.

if you have sufficient traffic from croatia and have enough contacts and time to test a lot of different options that will bring a few bucks but does not make you a life.

if you talk about buying such traffic from all networks and send it compressed - YES this is working and I know a lot of people that are focused on 1 or 2 markets, know all about it and buy this traffic usually cheap as not many buyers and not much competition exists.
but also here it will not work with a few hundert clicks per day. it would take much too long to get sufficient data to optimize.

itx · 10-20-2019, 03:36 PM

When you pay based on results, you do not risk anything, instead the webmasters invest money (hosting, domains, software, etc.), time and knowledge, they have the choice of where to send their traffic, usually where they generate most money.

AmeliaG · 10-20-2019, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

This.

The other driver of boobs and parties was always to gather up as many idiot webmasters as possible. Back in the day there were plenty of guys who got into the business because they were losers looking at naked pictures all day and fell into a way to make money from it. Businesses were simply giving those rabble who lived the life what they wanted while they were valuable. Those people are no longer valuable and most of them have returned to their former jobs in fast food.

Quite frankly, its difficult to convince me that I need to go to ANY show now. I can fly into a city, see the couple people who are important to me, and fly home. A good dinner, a good night out, and no embarrassing bottom feeder with a porn teeshirt explaining how you are both pornographers.

Those of us who SELL the life simply have no time or need for those of you still trying to LIVE the life.

You are so sexy when you use the word rabble

AmeliaG · 10-20-2019, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

So great, what you are saying is a webmaster with a small budget (say under $1000 a month) cannot play this game, is wasting his money and will never get any good traffic? That only experienced media buyers working for large companies with huge budgets can turn a profit?

Gee how wonderful, hopeful and exciting! So all us Webmasters should just go home and let big companies do everything? Great.

Hey Thommy, instead of writing WALLS OF TEXT that really helps no one - since these large companies and media buyers already know what to do and do not need your advice - how about showing the rest of us how a SMALL Webmaster or company can buy traffic and make a profit. Hmm?

I agree with this 100%.

Taking 30,000 words to basically repeat that "some people monetize some things (duh!)" is not terribly useful.

I mean, everyone in adult knows that cams or dating pay out better than membership sites in 2019. So maybe he is just posting a long-winded version of that tidbit.

I think, if someone claims constantly to have a particular expertise, they should occasionally be generous with their knowledge, the way a genuine expert can afford to be.

fuzebox · 10-21-2019, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

i am not sure what you mean here with "webmaster" - for me a webmaster ist the one that get´s the traffic on his site.

What I (and I think MrPornNerd) mean by "webmaster" is a solo / self employed operator trying to make money online, whether running sites or media buying arbitrage or whatever.

The Porn Nerd · 10-21-2019, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

What I (and I think MrPornNerd) mean by "webmaster" is a solo / self employed operator trying to make money online, whether running sites or media buying arbitrage or whatever.

Yes that's exactly right.

People like Thommy only concentrate on large numbers. It's like average people thinking "the Internet" is only Amazon, Hulu, Google, Facebook, etc.

Large corporations with large monthly budgets (mid five figures-to-six figures) are in a different league with different concerns than someone (like myself) who has to handle ALL areas of business, from web design to video editing to uploading to social media, etc etc. Someone like myself has to be ALL things (media buyer, programmer, editor, etc) at once.

Obviously then I am not looking to spend 1K and generate 100K. LOL But a 20% ROI? That should be doable no?

(I am talking about buying cam traffic to send to a cam white label landing page, not paysites here.)

fuzebox · 10-21-2019, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

(I am talking about buying cam traffic to send to a cam white label landing page, not paysites here.)

Unfortunately cam companies are the largest buyers of adult traffic, and are willing to spend 2-3 years revenue on a member... You're competing with the provider of your own whitelabel and they have deeper pockets and a vested interest in branding.

thommy · 10-21-2019, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

What I (and I think MrPornNerd) mean by "webmaster" is a solo / self employed operator trying to make money online, whether running sites or media buying arbitrage or whatever.

well let me say it like this:

a solo / self employed operator trying to make money online, whether running sites AND media buying arbitrage AND whatever.

...will not work

if he focus on one of it and is good in it he can make his way if there are not too many others with the same or higher skills in that.

thommy · 10-21-2019, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Unfortunately cam companies are the largest buyers of adult traffic, and are willing to spend 2-3 years revenue on a member... You're competing with the provider of your own whitelabel and they have deeper pockets and a vested interest in branding.

correct - and they want to spread their cookies too.

cams is a very special topic. it is like gambling where you will not make profit on 1000 signups and 1001 brings all back.

it is very hard for a small buyer to go into this game because you never know when 1001 comes up and you never know if 1001 is not already someone elses customer.

I personally would never promote anything that works with longterm cookies as I don´t know how many others have planted the cookie before me.

if one wants to make mediabuying and does not have much money to spend he still need

1. a good tracker and the knowledge how to work with tracking and optimize with tracking.

2. a target what he knows better than his own underwear

and still than he should not try to buy the traffic everybody wants. he should try traffic that nobody wants or realize that it is gold.

i give you one example:

let´s say you have a great norwegian site what you know perfectly and you know it is converting.
than you might have a chance IF this website is not geo targeting a user by IP.

it seems that many people forget that we are living in mobile times. norwegian customers can be all over the world. a norwegian trucker can have right now his obligate break in sweden or in germany or in russia. he is still norwegian - he have a phone or a tablet but he have a swedish, german or russian IP.

so if you want to buy traffic from norway with norway language and norway IP you will get blind if if see the prices that are paid for that. I think these are the highest clickprices worldwide. a click - even on tubes - is not seldomly sold for 0,70, 0,80, 0,90 or 1 dollar for ONE CLICK.

but how many people think on the norwegian trucker who is on the parking in germany
and surfs with a GERMAN IP but he is still norwegian ?

THESE are the niches I am talking about because NOBODY will set up a campaign for country germany and language norwegian. NOBODY would try to target dutch user in afganistan or china.....

if someone buys all that traffic from all networks together and send it to a target site that does not send this norway guy to a russian website just because he have a russian IP - THAN you make even with invisible things really visible money.

this is partisan marketing but even for that you need the skills I have mentioned.

Ferus · 10-21-2019, 03:11 PM

I have this link I send to people when they dont understand how other makes double the profit from the same traffic.

Quote:

growth is a by-product of many factors including innovation

https://towardsdatascience.com/how-w...g-2b44632ba9df

itx · 10-21-2019, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferus

I have this link I send to people when they dont understand how other makes double the profit from the same traffic.

https://towardsdatascience.com/how-w...g-2b44632ba9df

The traffic quality is important too.

Today I received an email from CJ.com with an interesting study that I want to share with GFY.

Quote:

Does affiliate marketing add incremental value?

To find the answer, the CJ Affiliate Data Science team harnessed transaction data, customer profiles, client CRM data, and site visit analytics to pull off the largest affiliate incrementality study ever conducted.

Our findings prove that affiliate adds incremental value to the marketing mix, to the tune of:

46% Higher Shopper to Customer Conversion Rate

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The Porn Nerd · 10-21-2019, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

correct - and they want to spread their cookies too.

cams is a very special topic. it is like gambling where you will not make profit on 1000 signups and 1001 brings all back.

it is very hard for a small buyer to go into this game because you never know when 1001 comes up and you never know if 1001 is not already someone elses customer.

I personally would never promote anything that works with longterm cookies as I don´t know how many others have planted the cookie before me.

if one wants to make mediabuying and does not have much money to spend he still need

1. a good tracker and the knowledge how to work with tracking and optimize with tracking.

2. a target what he knows better than his own underwear

and still than he should not try to buy the traffic everybody wants. he should try traffic that nobody wants or realize that it is gold.

i give you one example:

let´s say you have a great norwegian site what you know perfectly and you know it is converting.
than you might have a chance IF this website is not geo targeting a user by IP.

it seems that many people forget that we are living in mobile times. norwegian customers can be all over the world. a norwegian trucker can have right now his obligate break in sweden or in germany or in russia. he is still norwegian - he have a phone or a tablet but he have a swedish, german or russian IP.

so if you want to buy traffic from norway with norway language and norway IP you will get blind if if see the prices that are paid for that. I think these are the highest clickprices worldwide. a click - even on tubes - is not seldomly sold for 0,70, 0,80, 0,90 or 1 dollar for ONE CLICK.

but how many people think on the norwegian trucker who is on the parking in germany
and surfs with a GERMAN IP but he is still norwegian ?

THESE are the niches I am talking about because NOBODY will set up a campaign for country germany and language norwegian. NOBODY would try to target dutch user in afganistan or china.....

if someone buys all that traffic from all networks together and send it to a target site that does not send this norway guy to a russian website just because he have a russian IP - THAN you make even with invisible things really visible money.

this is partisan marketing but even for that you need the skills I have mentioned.

Thanks for this post!

Yes I understand, especially the 1000-1001 analogy.

So instead of cams what would you promote? Dick pills? Dating? With dick pills you have a fixed price and with dating recurring memberships and upgrades so I suppose, like paysites, the overall value of a customer can be better determined.

Rochard · 10-21-2019, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

You are so sexy when you use the word rabble

12clicks · 10-21-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

You are so sexy when you use the word rabble

And you’re sexy the rest of the time. 😉

Paul Markham · 10-22-2019, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I don't think the porn industry is dead. It's evolved. The days of making thousands of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars on solo girl sites is dead, long gone. The days making a network of TGPs and making bank is also gone - people go straight to Google or Pornhub.

The average Joe who grabbed a camera, took some pictures, and then slapped together a website and an affilaite program and quickly made money is over with. Now it's companies that are making money.

People are still making money hand over fist, but they are larger companies. Paying a model $200 to take some dirty pictures doesn't cut it today. Our industry has evolved.

Agreed that it's evolved.

But you are wrong with the rest. More solo girl sites made a couple of grand than those that made 10,000s. The problem was always funding content production to a level that made them good enough. Unless the program owner shot the content himself and knew what he was doing, he had a poor product. It would be as good as me doing what you do and we all know how that would end up.

I've lost count of the number of people who couldn't afford to buy in decent content. Content is what will ultimately persuade the customer to stay looking at samples, click a link to a tour and convert him/her to buy or move on. It's not as if he's restricted in his/her choices.

Same goes for TGPs, how many made less than the B/W bill from a gallery?

Paul Markham · 10-22-2019, 03:38 AM

I've watched the industry evolve from the days of 5mm films that took skills to shoot to today.

The best days were pre tubes and TGPs. The days when some companies made huge fortunes from mostly one country. Via video, magazines, cable TV, hotels, phone lines and early online. Multiply that by company and country to see the money made.

All online did was receive the exodus of offline buyers into online buyers. The extra traffic numbers were only traffic numbers, there was no new business from people who would not buy offline porn. If there was no exodus why did offline shrink so much? In fact the opposite was happening. Even with TGPs consumers who enjoyed magazines, were now not buying them and getting off for free to the daily supply of TGPs.

Today those who got off to DVDs or paysites get off to tubes. Negating any rise in new traffic. What does Mindgeek do?

But there is still lots of money in porn, just not as much as there use to be.

thommy · 10-22-2019, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Thanks for this post!

Yes I understand, especially the 1000-1001 analogy.

So instead of cams what would you promote? Dick pills? Dating? With dick pills you have a fixed price and with dating recurring memberships and upgrades so I suppose, like paysites, the overall value of a customer can be better determined.

you can believe it or not but the real farseeing advertisers do not care what they promote.
they do not even care if they make profit with it.

modern internet marketing is buying the contact to a user. and try to sell him whatever in the future.

this is why it will never work for an affiliate that do not have the users emailadress or contact data.

there is so much you can make additional revenue - starting from push notifications on the lander over whatsapp groups til emailmarketing.

they do not have the limit of 150 bucks lifetime revenue. they are thinking in high 3 until 4 digit lifetime revenues per signup or sale.

if you want to compete here in the big tier1 markets you will not have a chance because there are already a lot of buyers that do not only have the first product ready, they have the second, third and many more ready and they have the technology.
this is really ONLY to beat with HUGE capital and HUGE know how.

in the tier2 and tier3 markets it is not like this yet (but it will come) - so here you can calculate on lower traffic prices and you are not forced to make more out of a buyer as you can make on the first sale.

but if you would ask me WHAT you can do with what you have I would not give you the advise to go into media buying. I would give you the advise to WORK with media buyers
and change your technology in a way that this is possible.

THIS IS THE REAL niche for people like you because there are many many media buyers that will promote it somehow.

that does not mean that the whole media buyer world will jump on your product but you have to understand how these people are working.

let´s say a media buyer is promoting a penis enlargement offer but he finds out that parts of the traffic he sends there is not converting (maybe the landingpage does not work with mobile IOS or android 4.2.2.2) he will be happy to have an alternative.

2nd thing is that media buyers are working with big data and retargeting.
they are buying traffic from many networks and if a user clicks in network A on banner B and get lead to landingpage C he will get landingpage D when he clicks on banner B from network X again. this can happen multiple times and there is always a last fallback when every other rule is already used.

I think you can see already in this little example that an affiliate program with 15 years old technique is not able to satisfy the technical need that are important for that.

right now I am coaching one of this good old fashioned programs to bring them up to date to do that and find a place and customers in this new world.

the funny part is that programs like NATS already have this features in the newer versions but nobody understand them so they are just used from a very little group that is quite new and saw that membership sites are not a goal for them. they just made other products but used this techniques that are THERE.

it is so funny when i talk to people that are running such sites since decades and they don´t even know what a clickid or a postback on event is.
they mostly stuck when they have to add a new database field.

THIS is what i would do when i would be you.
don´t stop to walk the way you know better than everyone - just change the shoes.

10-22-2019, 03:38 AM	#169
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I've watched the industry evolve from the days of 5mm films that took skills to shoot to today. The best days were pre tubes and TGPs. The days when some companies made huge fortunes from mostly one country. Via video, magazines, cable TV, hotels, phone lines and early online. Multiply that by company and country to see the money made. All online did was receive the exodus of offline buyers into online buyers. The extra traffic numbers were only traffic numbers, there was no new business from people who would not buy offline porn. If there was no exodus why did offline shrink so much? In fact the opposite was happening. Even with TGPs consumers who enjoyed magazines, were now not buying them and getting off for free to the daily supply of TGPs. Today those who got off to DVDs or paysites get off to tubes. Negating any rise in new traffic. What does Mindgeek do? But there is still lots of money in porn, just not as much as there use to be. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-20-2019, 03:36 PM	#155
itx Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 959	When you pay based on results, you do not risk anything, instead the webmasters invest money (hosting, domains, software, etc.), time and knowledge, they have the choice of where to send their traffic, usually where they generate most money.