How our industry has changed

[Rochard]

I run the YNOT Shoot Me site which is all pictures from shows. Being in the industry since the late 1990s and comparing show pictures from them to now is a huge difference. Twenty plus years ago someone would rent a suite or even a house and buy a shit load of booze and everyone would being models. Now... It seems we rent out a resturant or some fully staffed space and.... It doesn't seem to be as much fun.

No nudity. And surely no fucking.

I remember one time at a show a model handed me the wireless remote control to her vibrator and told me I was in charge of her orgasms all night.

Sigh. Our industry isn't nearly as much fun.

[Ferus]

Bring your own models then FFS and stop crying

[Speigelau]

I bet if you hand a remote to bladewire at the next show and tell him he's in charge of your orgasms for the rest of the night, you both will have fun.

[brassmonkey]

what do you expect when there is no solid way to move adult currency??? to the affiliates,models,designers,programmers etc.... this shit fell apart! i called it 5+ years ago.

[EddyTheDog]

If I ever get to one I will get my moobs out for you...

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Rochard

No nudity. And surely no fucking.

Do you know why? Because your are all old. Look at the pictures from those shows and parties. They look like a nursing home. The porn industry has died when every stupid boy got an iphone and now he is able to post videos with his girls to porhub. Porn today is something like a potato peel. Nobody is interested. Why do you think "Politics & More" is so popular even here?

[Tubevideditor]

The rise of the solo girl and social media where you don't need to go to a show to interact. They all do it themselves now with the traditional producer a dying breed.
But yeah, the fun has gone out of things and is more business like now. That era of making easy money for doing not a lot has long gone

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tubevideditor

The rise of the solo girl and social media where you don't need to go to a show to interact. They all do it themselves now with the traditional producer a dying breed.
But yeah, the fun has gone out of things and is more business like now. That era of making easy money for doing not a lot has long gone

when the war started in the middle east it took and killed a bunch of those customers. so many families are a mess now with family dead moms and dads friends and shit. when i was in grade school we watchd those training grounds in syria or some shit. they called them terrorist. that tie the yellow ribbon on a oak tree was for that iran shit. it fucked the economy like bin laden said it would. those training grounds in the middle east put the economy where it is decades after all that first spark

[jscott]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

what do you expect when there is no solid way to move adult currency??? to the affiliates,models,designers,programmers etc.... this shit fell apart! i called it 5+ years ago.

We need to lose the permissioned payment situations. Until then, we'll continue getting chased around like Jews in nazi Germany.

3rd party are not necessary anymore, wakeup!!!

[MaDalton]

Let's say roughly we have the content people and the traffic people.

The content people still could pull off legendary parties but they can't afford them anymore.

The traffic people have a more corporate approach, they attend both adult and mainstream events, they have no emotional connection to the porn lifestyle.

Also the traffic people give a shit about the content people, they don't need content, they find the content people seedy and disgusting and rather hang out with other traffic people and pop champagne bottles in a shiny restaurant.

About that?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by jscott

We need to lose the permissioned payment situations. Until then, we'll continue getting chased around like Jews in nazi Germany.

3rd party are not necessary anymore, wakeup!!!

you cant just slide someone 200 bucks without a 3rd party. banks won't do peer transfers.

[jscott]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you cant just slide someone 200 bucks without a 3rd party. banks won't do peer transfers.

Payments can be made without banks. Let the affiliate/customer deal with their own banking wants or needs.

Chaturbate, Bongacash, Webclicks are among those few innovative sponsors who give p2p payment options

[davidCRM]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I remember one time at a show a model handed me the wireless remote control to her vibrator and told me I was in charge of her orgasms all night.

rockstar move

[Mickey_]

You can't keep doing the same old, same old and expect it to last. Adapt or die.

ps. CyberSEO has a point, the industry was made up mostly of twentysomethings at the time, they're 40+ now, of course the parties will be more tame for the most part.

In addition, the industry as a whole has matured. Less hobbyists, more data-driven decisions and strategy. But I do understand why your inner child is disappointed in the lack of debauchery...as a sidenote, the parties you mention are still there, but they're more discreet, invite only and take place behind closed doors.

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I run the YNOT Shoot Me site which is all pictures from shows. Being in the industry since the late 1990s and comparing show pictures from them to now is a huge difference. Twenty plus years ago someone would rent a suite or even a house and buy a shit load of booze and everyone would being models.

The 70s were even better.

[CurrentlySober]

i cunt a4d2 go 2 a party...

[OldJeff]

Many factors.......

1. The "my dick is bigger than yours" programs have all ceased to exist, those egos have either retired, or faded into a shadow of their former selves.

2. Late 90's money was easy, tell people it's free, and they take the bait

3. Most people have realized that it is far more profitable to work behind the scenes, off the radar, with private personal deals

4. Affiliates have shot themselves in the foot with ever demanding higher and higher payouts, tons of promotional materials, immediately available reps, all for their 6 sales a month.

We live in a world where traffic buyers realize that 95% of all "affiliates" were absolutely useless to the bottom line. Far better to send people a personal gift as a thank you, or a lunch/dinner with an associate than to spend money on a bunch of the terminally useless.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I run the YNOT Shoot Me site which is all pictures from shows. Being in the industry since the late 1990s and comparing show pictures from them to now is a huge difference. Twenty plus years ago someone would rent a suite or even a house and buy a shit load of booze and everyone would being models. Now... It seems we rent out a resturant or some fully staffed space and.... It doesn't seem to be as much fun.

No nudity. And surely no fucking.

I remember one time at a show a model handed me the wireless remote control to her vibrator and told me I was in charge of her orgasms all night.

Sigh. Our industry isn't nearly as much fun.

god thanks it has changed.

I go to a show to make money and not to see more tits than the ones I already have to look at anyway.

I can wank on the balance of my bank account but not on promogirls that another has paid for it to impress me.

envy you don't have to learn to be successful and nothing else were these shows from once as a huge penis comparison without meaningful information.

i can still remember when one night at the bar i made a big deal with someone who asked me my name the next day and wanted to know what i was doing.

of course - funny memories - but business today is much cooler and much more interesting because all the virgins who gave birth to a child and held themselves up for the reincarnation of maria are back to the holes they came from.

[PornDude]

Some good points in this thread.

[notinmybackyard]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

3. Most people have realized that it is far more profitable to work behind the scenes, off the radar, with private personal deals.

Absolutely!

[Paul Markham]

The whole business has shrunk. New blood isn't coming in at the same rate of old, so what is left? 50 plus and older.

The biggest porn sites are free mopping up 99% of all traffic and they know the few sites who can afford to advertise or own them already. There's always been the BS about online being world wide. Only America and Europe are rich enough to afford porn, we always had porn so nothing changed in market share.

I remember the Vegas AVN and Berlin shows that were very wild long before online took over.

[Ferus]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The whole business has shrunk. New blood isn't coming in at the same rate of old, so what is left? 50 plus and older.

The biggest porn sites are free mopping up 99% of all traffic and they know the few sites who can afford to advertise or own them already. There's always been the BS about online being world wide. Only America and Europe are rich enough to afford porn, we always had porn so nothing changed in market share.

I remember the Vegas AVN and Berlin shows that were very wild long before online took over.

A single ego is an absurdly narrow vantage point from which to view the world.

Aleister Crowley

You should stop speaking about a system you dont understand

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by thommy

of course - funny memories - but business today is much cooler and much more interesting because all the virgins who gave birth to a child and held themselves up for the reincarnation of maria are back to the holes they came from.

. . .

[celandina]

Many figured out ( unfortunately) that stealing is cheaper and safer then fucking....and there you have it

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Bring your own models then FFS and stop crying

LOL. Thankfully I don't deal with content any more.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by thommy

I go to a show to make money and not to see more tits than the ones I already have to look at anyway.

But we used to have both.

I remember going to a show in 2000 and moments after being there most of the women were naked. During that same show we met someone who started sending us traffic shortly after we got home. He was making thousands of dollars A DAY sending traffic to us.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But we used to have both.

I remember going to a show in 2000 and moments after being there most of the women were naked. During that same show we met someone who started sending us traffic shortly after we got home. He was making thousands of dollars A DAY sending traffic to us.

well they are simply replaced from them that make now 10 or 20.000 per day.

but you can still find this kind of shows. mamaia is still like that if not a bit more feudal than in the good old days.

it was fun - but I made the biz with the same people on other shows.

it always depends what you are expecting from a show. In my first 5 or 6 years i never made any biz on the shows and just used them to meet new people.
most of them are not in the biz anymore but with the ones that are still here I do most of my biz.

you also have to understand that we do not live from selling porn anymore.
many ex-mainstream shows are today 50/50 and the adult shows from before are today also 50/50 between adult and mainstream.

TES in example was a pure adult show 10 years ago.
we have been less than 200 porn people on the first show.
now you have over 1000 porn guys there and an additional over 1000 from mainstream and we all do biz together.

and to paul: I did not count the porn producers on the last TES in prague but I gues there where like 30 or 40 at least and ALL of them made good biz.
where have you been? there where even free affiliate passes available for people like you.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Ferus

You should stop speaking about a system you dont understand

Would that be the porn business or the traffic business?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But we used to have both.

I remember going to a show in 2000 and moments after being there most of the women were naked. During that same show we met someone who started sending us traffic shortly after we got home. He was making thousands of dollars A DAY sending traffic to us.

That's something Thommy doesn't understand. There was traffic before tubes gave porn away for free and there will still be men consuming porn if BW goes to a price they can't pay.

The lack of models at shows proves what Stefan said content and traffic companies can't afford to hire them, pay for shows or even attend shows. Girls naked or semi naked or in bikinis will always draw a crowd. How do you think we sell porn?

[CurrentlySober]

Yes. No longer like 'The Good Old Days' when even GFY members couldn't handle it !

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-b...nventions.html

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Would that be the porn business or the traffic business?

we are not the porn business and we never have been the porn business. we are the adult industry since the beginning.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

That's something Thommy doesn't understand. There was traffic before tubes gave porn away for free and there will still be men consuming porn if BW goes to a price they can't pay.

The lack of models at shows proves what Stefan said content and traffic companies can't afford to hire them, pay for shows or even attend shows. Girls naked or semi naked or in bikinis will always draw a crowd. How do you think we sell porn?

Nowdays it is mostly cam companies which bring models. Traffic companies does not need models at all, and bigger content companies bring models, like model centro.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

That's something Thommy doesn't understand. There was traffic before tubes gave porn away for free and there will still be men consuming porn if BW goes to a price they can't pay.

really?
i did not know that as I am only since 1997 in that biz online and offline I have only 10 years more than that

The lack of models at shows proves what Stefan said content and traffic companies can't afford to hire them, pay for shows or even attend shows. Girls naked or semi naked or in bikinis will always draw a crowd. How do you think we sell porn?

why are you such a liar?

where did stefan say they can not afford to pay them?

and why do a bunch of naked girls walking in a B2B show sell more porn?

paul, get some brain cells and stop talking like a senile old dumb.

[Tjeezers]

Summits and Shows have requested more maturity from the event photographers in how they put people on the lens, most summit organizers do not want to be portraited as massive sex orgies, it creates the wrong expectations and ideas. Just my 2 cents.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Nowdays it is mostly cam companies which bring models. Traffic companies does not need models at all, and bigger content companies bring models, like model centro.

models are not the porn industry regarding on paul.
the porn industry are the ones that produce porn to get paid to work with naked pussies and the ones that sold it to a few hundert thousand paying customers.

paul lives in a world that is so tiny and he will never get out of it because he is afraid to see the truth cause it must hurt him to find out he's always been the last link in the food chain.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Tjeezers_Brokerbabe

Summits and Shows have requested more maturity from the event photographers in how they put people on the lens, most summit organizers do not want to be portraited as massive sex orgies, it creates the wrong expectations and ideas. Just my 2 cents.

not only this. look, this big events even have a problem to find the locations that can host such an event with 2000 plus people.
most of them are 4 and 5 star hotels and they would never accept a herd of horny old man like paul wanking on naked bitches.

I can tell you exactly where the people from Paul's time are.
back then they did the job to watch porn for free. today there are tubes and so they don't have to do the job anymore.

[Tjeezers]

Originally Posted by thommy

mamaia is still like that if not a bit more feudal than in the good old days.

Watch us in 2020, it will be like the old days and more!
And when you come next time, let me know, we can do a Pre Party in Bucharest, you have my skype, keep me posted.

[Tjeezers]

Originally Posted by thommy

not only this. look, this big events even have a problem to find the locations that can host such an event with 2000 plus people.
most of them are 4 and 5 star hotels and they would never accept a herd of horny old man like paul wanking on naked bitches.

Point taken, and we have anticipated on this for 2020
Locations are always a key element and the biggest challenge!

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Nowdays it is mostly cam companies which bring models. Traffic companies does not need models at all, and bigger content companies bring models, like model centro.

Which is very few.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Tjeezers_Brokerbabe

Summits and Shows have requested more maturity from the event photographers in how they put people on the lens, most summit organizers do not want to be portraited as massive sex orgies, it creates the wrong expectations and ideas. Just my 2 cents.

Is this the new porn industry where everyone is afraid of creating the wrong impression?

Nowadays it's just the traffic industry.

Back in the days of it being a multi billion dollar industry no one cared how people who weren't interested in porn thought of us. Stands had porn models signing autographs with lines of fans waiting for their signature or photo. In Germany or Brussels or Paris girls were allowed to get naked and did. Hotels welcomed us because we booked the entire hotel. We covered 5 massive halls in Berlin.

Now people selling porn think porn is a bad thing and afraid people selling and creating massive sex orgies creates the wrong expectations and ideas if they indulge in massive sex orgies!!!!

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Is this the new porn industry where everyone is afraid of creating the wrong impression?

Nowadays it's just the traffic industry.

the porn industry in the internet was ALWAYS a trafficindustry.
there is no difference if you buy traffic on revshare, on CPA or per click - it is just another payment model.

Back in the days of it being a multi billion dollar industry no one cared how people who weren't interested in porn thought of us. Stands had porn models signing autographs with lines of fans waiting for their signature or photo. In Germany or Brussels or Paris girls were allowed to get naked and did. Hotels welcomed us because we booked the entire hotel. We covered 5 massive halls in Berlin.

you are not only a dreamer you are also a liar.
the venus had NEVER in the entire existance 5 halls for porn producers - not even 1 hall could ever be filled with them.

the venus was mainly a b2c exhibition with sex toys etc.

Now people selling porn think porn is a bad thing and afraid people selling and creating massive sex orgies creates the wrong expectations and ideas if they indulge in massive sex orgies!!!!

we just do not need to sell the crap you sold.
we give it for free and make 100 times more money.

i don´t know what you are doing in an adult internet forum where nobody is interested to sell DVDs or videotapes. we also are not interested to sell horse shoes.

you are such a clown - someone should book you for the next exhibition. there you can explain your view of the world to the people. they will piss themselves laughing and you might finally become a star-clown.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Tjeezers_Brokerbabe

Watch us in 2020, it will be like the old days and more!
And when you come next time, let me know, we can do a Pre Party in Bucharest, you have my skype, keep me posted.

let´s see. i did not plan anything yet for 2020 except TES in portugal.
but i will not do more than 4 or 5 shows next year - it is always a mess for me with the flights.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by thommy

we are not the porn business and we never have been the porn business. we are the adult industry since the beginning.

If you are in the adult business, you are in fact in the porn business. Same thing.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by Rochard

If you are in the adult business, you are in fact in the porn business. Same thing.

I think his point being it's slightly more acceptable and user-friendly to put "adult entertainment" on your business card or resume - than "the porn business."

[directfiesta]

Affiliate Ponzi scam dried out ....

[MrPinksPornReviews]

Originally Posted by Rochard

If you are in the adult business, you are in fact in the porn business. Same thing.

Right. A prostitute or a hooker. Same shit no matter how you slice it.

[just a punk]

Indeed. Actually all those porn models are prostitutes.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Indeed. Actually all those porn models are prostitutes.

So anyone selling them would be pimps.

Some of the replies in this thread shows what people in the business think of what we do and believe that doing something toned down will make us more acceptable. We sell and create porn and think naked girls at a show will get us a bad image!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tasty1]

Most models are cam models. Go to a Webcam Summit organised by chaturbate etcetra and you see more woman than man. They don't need the middle man.

Maybe it is time for you to go to a swingersclub and leave your camera home.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

I think his point being it's slightly more acceptable and user-friendly to put "adult entertainment" on your business card or resume - than "the porn business."

no that was not my point.

adult-biz in internet did not really start with selling porn pics.
it started with sex-shops and sex-dating mostly.

later we sold pics and later also videos and the affiliate pyramid model made it easy for everybody to be the owner of an affiliate program.

the really big booms in this industry have been based on scams called dialer and mobile subscriptions.

for both of it content was not important. they could be done with 10 pictures or 5 videos and some of them had not even that.
but with both of this scams the real billions where made.

the business with members areas seems to be huge as long as you have only a few of them and as long you are dealing with rich users (when internet was expensive 100% of the few users had a huge buying power).

but in compare to the rest of the money that is made in internet porn is and always was a little peanut.

a webmaster that was working with porn in the 90s and beginning of the new millenium had no other product to sell than porn, because nobody wanted to advertise on porn sites. this was the time when a few thousands of member sites made 50% of the revenue and the other 50% went to adultfriendfinder and a few sex shops.

so actually adultfriendfinder alone was the same size as ALL content selling sites together.

than dialers came up and if you would own a site where just 5% of the traffic came from europe you would make with this 5% around 20 times more as with the 95% from countries where dialers did not exist.
in this time we blocked traffic from US and other TIER1 countries or send them to paysites with a redirect - because they still made a few 1000 extra but those where peanuts.

the next big hype came with mobile subscriptions.
in the years when mobile got big nearly no membersite did even work on mobile.

in 2006 aproximately 6% of our traffic was mobile and this 6% made 95% of the total revenue.
the funny thing was that not one mobile offer was porn - in most countries not even titts have been allowed.
in 2011 and 2012 i made with just mobile redirects around 50.000 € PER DAY !!!!
and we did not target niches or HQ-stuff as it was impossible to deliver it via mobile.
all what we looked at was country, OS and mobile carrier and send them directly to a signup page.

today all this things are history and if free porn would not bring this huge numbers of users the biz would be gone already.

now finally the biz model is to use free porn to get the big numbers and sell adspace to everybody who is interested in this group.
smart advertisers know that wankers do not wank all day long. in the rest of the time they are ordinary consumers that spend money for everything.

today we have a situation where the income of porn sites is still 70% depending on dating. but alone this revenues are 100 times more than all revenues from porn member sites together.
but even the "real porn sales" (selling videos and pictures) do not need markhams.
90% of this revenues are made through amateur sites with selfproduced videos.
and they still sell a single video for 10 dollar while you can get a membership on a video site with thousands of videos for 7,99 per month.

all this are FACTS and this facts in sum should enlighten paul that not the tubes killed this market - there was nothing to kill - it was NEVER a big goal and time killed it.

there is a number about porn consumption from 2000 til today.
in compare to the complete buying power of ALL users on all pornsites this users ALWAYS spend 0,26% of their budget for porn. it WAS like that and it still IS like that.

that means that paul believes, that a dick with a length of 0,26 inches is the biggest dick in the world, because he have never seen a bigger one.

porn internet today is dealing with users that are attracted with porn. but the products that are advertised there are mostly not porn. simply because no classic porn site can afford to to buy this traffic because their lifetime value will never pay for the costs.

and even if you would take ALL FREE PORN out of the internet it would not make the cake bigger. and even IF it would become bigger it is always in relation to the number of people who want to eat from this cake.
this is why we do not need to focus on one little cake - we focus on thousand of cakes of different sizes.