JSWENSON

50 out of touch Pauls.

pimpmaster9000

Pauls shooter skills LOL

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InfoGuy

Let me correct myself. Their paid members area content isn't posted all over the web for free.

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JSWENSON

Sure but it's not like we haven't seen their pussy 1000 times. They are selling more than the niche pictures brought up above. Yes there is a market for that and the prices get insane but there are girls bringing in 5/6 figures a month with subscriptions under $10 and their shit is leaked far and wide. You don't get to talk to the girl when you steal her content.

Forest

Please define "Thriving" based on avg revenue/time/money invested

I retired in '15 so I wonder what is considered good money today for an affiliate

Bosa

Can someone please help with this?

We have 5 girls soon 10 girls we want monetize.

1.Do we create individual accounts with girls personal info or can we create one account personal or company account and add girls content to it?

2.Can a company have an Patreon account?

3. Can a individual have an Patreon account and create content with other people in it?

4. Can this apply to onlyfans.com site also

Thank you

JSWENSON

They have a really good help system man, just sign up.

Sent you a PM about some possible business as well.

King Mark

1. I'd personally create individual accounts for each, but you can do either or... You just have to own/be the creator of the content. No sex acts.

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes, and onlyfans allows sex acts too

My word is not law, read the terms and guidelines.

Bonus: https://stars.avn.com/

Paul Markham

Once you start going for niches within a niche you lose market size to such an extent it's impossible to pay for the content in any form above basic amateur. So losing most of the people who don't want amateurs producing their porn who have no interest and no knowledge of the niche. While the guys that know, understand and love the niche target the overall niche of feet make more money.

The notion that anybody can create a site because they can point a camera is absurd.

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Bosa

Thanks King Mark

Who is paying TrishaTarantino $1000 a month for no sex acts? for what then? crazy!!

https://www.patreon.com/TrishaTarantino
TrishaTarantino
CUSTOM VIDEO
$1,000
PER MONTH
message me for any kind of custom video.

She said any kind of video. So... Is she playing with her kitty

JSWENSON

Paul, you don't know about or understand a single God damned important thing. Please STFU until someone wants to know about shutter speed or something.

Bosa

OMG!!! I'm dying here!!! shutter speed or something!!

The Porn Nerd

There are billions of people on this planet with all kinds of interests, from the silliest softcore to the most extreme acts imaginable. Yet Paul seems to think there is only ONE kind of "porn" and only one kind of porn fan.

You can make money with almost ANY niche - if you know what you are doing. Scaling up is another matter but then there's so much lateral space available you can always widen your operation. All it takes is vision and endless hard work. And some luck helps.

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thommy

this question came from you and i do not even have to look into another answer from you to quote is



no paul - not 100s - these are millions and now tell me wich taste you talk about.
do you think that "teen" means that someone likes underaged looking girls?
you failed !!!

away from that you will not even have a chance to get listet in the big search engines with keys that are around this topic.
another thing that you have never realized.


blonde teens? teens with big titts, fat teens, lesbian teens, masturbating teens or teen get fucked ...or or or....

do you have ANY clue what the word "marketing" means ?
if yes you would not ask such a question.

you are again wrong.
the affiliate marketing was the one and only chance that companies with no capital could promote WITHOUT OWN RISK any kind of product and give the promotion into the hands of amateurs.

98% of ALL affiliate sites are made from marketing amateurs and the all failed as soon as they had to compete with real professionals.
can you remember the good old memebership times where people promoted 80% revshare?
this is like going to a bank that offers you 25% interest- who believed that had deserved to get fucked.

have you ever seen a site that was famous because they had the great producers?
i did not and i truly made a few 100 times more money in an average year as you ever did with porn in your lifetime.

you really should start to listen instead spreading a "wiseness" that is far away from wise.
there are ten-thousands of people around that are doing better than you ever could imagine. the most of them you never met or know because they gave a shit of what you are obviously truly believe.

paul, don´t missunderstand me - i have really NOTHING against you - you made the best out of your skills and you made a decent life with that. but I do really don´t know where
but I really don't know where you think you're getting from, that what you could accomplish was only close to what someone can accomplish if he even knows 10% more than you do.
and 10% is flattered here because to survive in this biz you have to know 1000% more than you do.

you don't even know the basics and that you were able to survive with this narrow knowledge at all should make you much more grateful.

the award you can stick on your breast is the same as the one you get when you win the lottery.
you were simply in the right place at the right time - at a time when there weren't even enough blind people - and not a single one who can at least see with one eye.

be thankful for that because if they would have been there they would eat you for breakfast.

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sadiedazzle

Hey...I want to know about shutter speed. WTF is a 180 degree shutter angle?

King Mark

She's probably sending those outside of the platform via email or something.

https://www.patreon.com/policy/legal

"Restrictions: Creations or benefits with real people engaging in sexual acts."

And most of these people are not paying for regular porn bro. They got tubes for that. They are paying for the interactions and personal up close experience.

They're like Beyonce's beehive or Nicki Minaj's Barbie's. Different ballgame.

Video could very well be her farting in her sleep or something.

sadiedazzle

As far as producers go, I would start with Kink, Vivid, Ben Dover, Rocco what's his name, Marc Dorcel, Andrew Blake, John Stagliano, Bonnie Rotten...I am sure there are a couple more. Just sayin'

thommy

affiliates in the meaning of 2005 are not exiting any more or the survive with some 3-4-digit number.

affiliate biz was overtaken YEARS ago from media buyers and media buy agencies with a few hundred employed media buyers.

if you are not doing 5-digit per month per affiliate program today you are a nobody and you will not be able to compete with the ones that are driving this market.

big media buying companies are calculating in a 5-10% net-ROI and their problem is not the ROI but getting that much traffic that hey can invest a few million per month to make a profitabel biz out of that.

imagine if you have a few hundert million and you go to your bank and ask them for 5% interest PER MONTH what they will tell you.

i can not believe why so many old fashioned guys are not able to calculate that even someone with 10 million cash to invest (wich is a fucking poor) make 500 K EVERY MONTH with that if he only on 5% ROI. why do they think that these people are sleeping?

and WHY does any "yesterday affiliate" think that he can get better conditions as someone that invest that much money in traffic and come up with 5-6 digit signups every month?

i think a big part of this biz have lost the relation to the reality.

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Paul Markham

I was talking about the entire industry offline. Few to none were ever going to pay what offline people were happy to pay. From Suze Randal to Ernie Taylor, none were going to work for online at the rates online were paying.

Do you sell your labour for 10% of what others will pay? No you won't so why do you think anyone who can point a camera can produce porn.

Some here say they know how to launch sites in micro niches they don't know and love, because they can put up a site and send traffic to it.

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Paul Markham

So tell us where I'm wrong. I'm talking about the product produced, marketed and sold. Without it there isn't an industry.

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Paul Markham

I didn't say there's no money to be made. I said there's a limit to the money being made that keeps most of the micro niches small. The fact that only devotees can get it so right the few surfer are willing to buy, retain or rejoin to make a decent living is another hurdle.

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thommy

all stuff that worked great in the 90s and beginning of the new millenium.
but in compare to the revenues that are realized today with free porn these are peanuts with a net profit that is far under 10% (many of them less than that).

and there is not a lot space for many of them.

so only the very big boys survived - and some of the will when they finally start to adapt to the new affiliate market.

this new affiliate market does not depend on one or a few websites that have today more and tomorrow less traffic to a special interest. they will not be dead when google does not like them anymore because there will always be some site at no1. and this site usually is there because they are focus on traffic generation and not on market this traffic.

a classic affiliate is nailed to the niche he build up in years.
a professional media buyer jumps on any trend with a mouse click.

affiliate biz as we know it from the 90s is not even recognized in the market.
if it all goes nobody would mention it because the traffic for it will still be there and thousands of buyers will jump on it within minutes.

selling porn is just what is was always - 0,29% of the users budget. it WAS like that and it is still like that - just shared through MUCH more people as it was in the end of the 90s
and the beginning of the 21st century. the only difference is that in the meantime the purchase power of the new additional users is MUCH smaller that the purchase power of the few users that we dealt with in the 90s.

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Paul Markham

All of those people used offline and online as a revenue stream.

Add Wicked, PRO, Private, Hustler, Score, Suze Randall, Viv Thomas, etc, the list is large. They, like me, tapped into the online market as well.

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Paul Markham

How many porn companies have a few hundred employed media buyers? Or are you talking about mainstream again?

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JSWENSON

One damn girl in a micro niche actually covers dozens / hundreds / possibly thousands of niches in one.

Hair color, hair length, size, size of tits, shape of teeth, braces or not, tattoos, what she's wearing, positions, sex acts and on and on. And that same girl can cover a limitless # of niches by changing clothes or pissing on her boyfriends face or letting her bush grow or wearing stockings and everything else.

Your simple minded ass "lol can't grow in tiny niche" bullshit is old AF.

thommy

did you EVER used a calculator?

if you have a main group for, let´s say "teens" that you are dealing with maybe 2-3% of all porn users.

this 2-3% do NOT like the SAME teen content - they again split in another 100 or 200 target groups. and if you talk about "the content that users want" you are already in one of them.
so divide 2-3% in 200 groups and than check HOW MANY competition will share the same microniche, than explain me how some site should buy even 200 EXCLUSIVE videos per month to finance that.

internet is a mass business since 10 years and not a biz where people are searching for "porn" and are happy to find some.
alone the key "porn" would make you millions in the 90s when you were on 1st.
today it is a "nice to have" but nothing that makes the big traffic numbers.

i market a lot of such sites that are in top positions with the so called "big keys" and i can tell you that those sites get 90% or more of their traffic with very other keys than the ones that made you rich 20 years ago.

again something that you do not have the smallest skills and knowledge but you want to tell us how this biz is working.

if you want to hunt a zebra it is not enough to know that it is striped black and white.
and you need to know MUCH MUCH MORE.

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Paul Markham

The reason they died off wasn't that they had the wrong product, couldn't market it right. It was because without offline sales they could no longer produce the quality they needed to stay ahead. Look at any niche and see what comes up, free sites where you're lucky to get $5 per 1,000 clicks unless you refine the traffic down and down again. The offline guys were funding production that sustained productions well above that level.

On the budget for selling porn I would say it's more 33% on a good day.

I do agree that new surfer are less likely to pay for porn than existing surfers.

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Paul Markham

Yes in teens it's fine. Then you can do lesbian teens, Hardcore teens, Gonzo, glamour, legs and so on. But you were talking about catering for people who only like feet, then those that like it only one way. Point out the sites covering micro niches, as you described, and we can see if we're talking about the same thing.

Look on any tube site for the number of people who like Teens as opposed top dirty feet.

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Paul Markham

You can't grow a tiny niche by changing all you suggest without it becoming a site covering all the niche. Which defeats the point. Don't forget you have to compete with all the other micro niche sites doing exactly the same. Also one girl can be very limiting.

As I said to Thommy, point us to the sites you refer to.

I'm off to bed, great discussion. We need more discussions on the value of the product and the marketing.

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thommy

loool - yes i know it is not your world - but there are MANY of them.
and you know where the MOST Skilled are?

china, india, netherlands, malysia, thailand, a few in germany, some in canada, a few quite big ones in CZ, poland and ukraine, many in russia nearly NONE (really big) in the US.....

my biggest buyer spends over all networks per month around 75 million and from that he buys 40-50% on adult sites (mainly tubes).

next week i go to AW asia in bangkok - wich is a nonadult show - and i will not be very stressed to get 700thsd-1 milion new revenue for us for 2020 in the first 5 hours because i already stopped to make appointments after the first day because there is more demand as I can supply.

paul believe me - the world is spinning different in this days and you will never understand that.

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thommy

i can not point out such sites because the will not be profitable. there are maybe a few that can survive with 1000-3000 members but this is not a biz - these are peanuts.

actually we do such researches and IF we find a niche we do a specialized tube for it - but it is again just a little additional part of the income.

tubes a free and a user will not complain when there have been only 100 videos in a month out of 3000 updates he liked.
bit IF we would try to sell him the 3000 he would complain that and we would have to deal with a few 1000 or 10.000 members.
now we are dealing with MILLIONS every day and even when each one of them brings us only a fraction from a paid user, it is A MUCH BIGGER CAKE and this little fraction will come back and back.

paul i was dealing with paysites in the good old times, and my sites haven´t been small.
but what i did then is nothing in compare to what i do today with free sites. not even 10% of it. i will NEVER do B2C biz again - I count in big numbers.

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JSWENSON

I have not and never want to run a standard paysite.

Others here do though, and they know far more on this topic than you ever will or could.

You are worse than someone that understands nothing because you have the fucking opposite ideas in your head and insist that you are right so you start behind the average clueless dumbass.

By the way Paul, setting up a new recurring system for some tiny niche takes about 2 minutes now.

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sadiedazzle

Ya know Thommy, I gotta call time on this. There are thousands of small businesses in the world. They support families. They do well. You don't need stupid numbers like you are blinded by to make a good living. So, a couple of questions. Are you rich? Do you own your own house? What kind of car do you drive? Basic questions, because something smells kinda off about this.
There are reasons boutiques survive in the land of Walmarts. Not all coffee places are Starbucks. I have no idea how long you have been in this biz or what it is you do. I am actually curious since you brought it up.
So please let us know how many of the gazillions of dollars that pass through your hands each week actually stick.
I could be wrong, but I would like to know going forward because when you claim that 1 to 3 thousand members is not a business, it makes me really curious about the big numbers you count in.

3rdshiftvideo

No one is spending 30-40 million per month in adult ad buys. Stop it

RyuLion

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The Porn Nerd

Thommy is the most arrogant dude on GFY. He has knowledge and good information but he is very full of himself. He thinks because he lives in a shithole country where the standard of living is 1/10th of what a 1st World country's is he's somehow the King of Adult. But in the end he is, like so many people, just a middle man, buying and selling other's people's traffic. This does not impess me, even if he is a millionaire.

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sadiedazzle

Arrogance is not an issue for me. More power to him. I am just curious if he has a nice place on Lake Geneva and is actually doing the kind of business he infers. If he is doing that volume and is that rich, then I would certainly listen to his opinions and take notice, arrogant or not. That's all really.

Paul Markham

A porn company employing 100s of people in the traffic department would be turning over $billions just to cover costs. Buying porn traffic from where, the number of free porn sites with enough traffic to warrant that type of traffic purchase are slim to none. So all these mega firms turn up at shows with 1 to 5 people. How big are the shows?

So name the porn companies that are as large as you claim. Don't come back with it's a secret, we will all know them and their power in the industry.

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Paul Markham

So no chance of a niche within a niche type sites reaching that level. Sometimes you talk absolute bullshit.



If you find a niche? What niches have you discovered in the last 5 years?

Of course he won't complain on a tube site, he's not paying for anything. Now the vast majority aren't willing to pay for a product they can't trust and is free elsewhere.

Stop counting traffic, count $$$$. Back in the good times, before porn was free, there was more money in porn because people had little alternative but to pay for it. Porn companies could easily afford to fund shoots that would bankrupt today's porn sites, because there was more money in the business.

You lose money when the audience is offered a free alternative that's superior to the paid option.

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Paul Markham

So point out specifically where I'm wrong.

Will you spend time and money promoting a site that converts worse than the rest?

And it takes 2 minutes to learn about a tiny niche, shoot the content, build a site, do the marketing, etc.

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Paul Markham

Can you imagine how much that company would be turning over if it were spending that much on buying ads?

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Paul Markham

This page isn’t working www.trafficfabrik.com redirected you too many times.

Try clearing your cookies.

ERR_TOO_MANY_REDIRECTS

Does that load for anyone else? Does it look like the site of a top notch marketeer?

Thommy is a legend in his own mind.

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Paul Markham

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-b...on-inside.html

Can you afford to pay your debts?

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thommy

yes on the phillipines you can live with 500 dollar profit.

but let´s calculate 1000 members a 20 dollar per month

this is 20.000 us

so now assume that after affiliate share and payment costs there are 8000 left.
from wich you have to pay servers, promo materials and a lot more - if you have a cheap
solution that will cost you another 1000. wich leaves you with 7000.
now assume that you have to update at least 3 videos per day to make it worth for a user and you buy for the price that paul tells you - if it is semi-exclusive you would pay around 50 us per scene. 50x80= 4000 - wich leaves you with 3000 profit.

this is not called biz.

why is that so important for you to know?
I am not here to compare dick length. But the people who know me know that I am doing well.

I am since 1997 in adult internet and since 1999 I also feed the families from my employees (most of them came because they could not do it alone)

I was running a big german membersite from 2000 til 2012.
the memberbase in the best times was around 13-16 k wich means that you need around 3000 to 4000 NEW PAYING members every month when you want to hold this number.
this makes it incredibly expensive because the costs of the infrastructure is a lot higher
and becomes fix costs. if you ever go down from this number of members you must shrink very fast or the costs will eat you.

in my market (wich is mainly the german speaking market) there have been a few VERY big affiliate system that was running hundreds of paysites each.
ALL of them are still HUGE companies with 9-digit yearly revenues - but not one of them is still doing the classic members areas - and they also know why.

there was sexmoney, there was partnercash there was cash4members and many many more - where are they?
ALL of them are still active but they do something else and do it with MUCH MORE success.

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thommy

yes i explained you how much they turn over.
and it is a very simple logic.

if an employed media buyer costs 5000 dollar per month and he spends 100 k monthly and makes a 10% ROI - his boss will have a net ROI of around 3% wich would be around 3000 dollar.
if he have 100 such buyers (and there are companies with much more than that) he makes 300k but he would need to invest 10 million. do you really think that for someone who is able to invest 10 million 300k profit is a big deal?

if you think that this people do not exist than you should not explain us here how golden the times have been. a person with a monthly income of 300 K is NOT a superrich. he is upper middle class.

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MaDalton

Amusingly enough the part that Paul doesn't understand has now already made it into a meme

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thommy

how do you know that i live in a shithole country?


i actually live in 3 countries and i am pretty sure you will find a few people here that can tell you HOW i live there. many of the readers here have been to at least one of my houses in switzerland or mallorca or my house in thailand or staid in one of my appartements here.

thailand is a quite cheap place to stay but you can feel that when you are able to spend 20-30 k dollars here every month HOW MUCH more you get.

you should not think that only poor people go to live outside their home countries.
im my neighborhood there are a a lot of europeans, americans, australians and even chinese that do not only own huge houses but also the one or the other ferrari that costs here 300% MORE than in europe.
i bought my house here from an old aussie guy who bought a few years ago a hotel and made for himself a house to live.
the formally 50 bedrooms are now 5 rooms and the house is with 4200 sqm living space the biggest private house in thailand. he have even his own disco with 250 seats in the house what is used when he makes one of his legendary parties.
you call that poor? i call it life !

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victoriaxxxy

Damn you so hot!

Paul Markham

So name these mega companies we all know about. Because until you can name them and we can see what you're on about your post is all a collection of "ifs". Also name the sites these media buyers spend so much time buying traffic from that has a ROI of 30%.

I can't know these people exist until you point them out, after all they won't be pissed because we all know how big they are.

If my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

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