Tech Is there ANY software development platform that can protect proprietary code?

[dcortez]

I have been programming since 1975, and through all the years, different assemblers, program languages, and platforms have come along.

30 years ago, theft of proprietary code did not seem as prevalent as it is today.

It's a total bummer to be able to design and develop very useful original stand-alone tools (programs), only to have them, almost instantly, hacked and resold by thieves - especially in the porn industry.

Even though most "apps" are internet dependent, I prefer to develop downloadable stand-alone desktop applications, where the user can "update" as they choose, and does not require a constant internet connection.

This also puts the entire processing load on the user's machine (no expensive server loads/nefarious traffic to manage).

Is anyone here developing software applications for either stand-alone or even web-based environments?

What application encryption/protection "wrappers" do you recommend?

Thanks!

[wankawonk]

I think maybe this is why SaaS has become so prevalent?

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by wankawonk

I think maybe this is why SaaS has become so prevalent?

That's a bingo.

Go SaaS where possible. It will go a long way to save you from thieves.

[plsureking]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

That's a bingo.

Go SaaS where possible. It will go a long way to save you from thieves.

i agree. i stopped remote installing my software many years ago.

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[dcortez]

Originally Posted by wankawonk

I think maybe this is why SaaS has become so prevalent?

Yes, I agree.

And it makes a lot of sense, but it has its downsides as well.

I'm an old school programmer, and like most other trades, I prefer my tools to be purchased and owned by me, and last years before needing replacement.

That used to be a workable model.

Cloud-based "solutions" lack technical privacy and eliminate almost every ounce of independence of the developer. You are hooked up and into a multitude of multi-directional networks - many of which you don't want seeing your code/ideas.

Also, you cannot effectively work offline for extended periods of time. This conflicts with the more pure "cottage industry" work model. These days "cottage industry" seems to imply work from "home", as long as you have always-on highspeed internet.

Along the lines of what I'm looking for in a stand-alone development environment solutions, the following seem to be a possible solution:

Delphi 10.4.2 + PELock Software Protection & Software License Key System

Although, I'm not sure if Delphi still runs as an offline compiler. I developed client-server applications from 1997 and it's an awesome ultra-tight language, fully extensible or internet connectivity.

I've never used PELock, but it seems to be a long-standing version of wrapping any executable with encryption and a licensing key.

I am still looking...

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

That's a bingo.

Go SaaS where possible. It will go a long way to save you from thieves.

Yes, except big corporate intellectual property "thieves", like all the networks your cloud inherits, and your coding/workflow data stream passes through.

[plsureking]

the SaaS suggestion is for future consideration. if you have been actively coding for 30+ years (like many of us) then you are able to adapt to modern times. we are moving/moved to an "always on" life, even in the woods. i am sure you are a great programmer, but you are not Facebook or Google. their biggest products are SaaS.

regarding source encryption, i've used this before:
https://www.sourceguardian.com/

my favorite used to be source cop, but i couldn't get license renewal for about a decade. now it looks like they are coming out with a new version at some point.
SourceCop 2020 - Coming Soon

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[dcortez]

Originally Posted by plsureking

the SaaS suggestion is for future consideration. if you have been actively coding for 30+ years (like many of us) then you are able to adapt to modern times. we are moving/moved to an "always on" life, even in the woods. i am sure you are a great programmer, but you are not Facebook or Google. their biggest products are SaaS.

regarding source encryption, i've used this before:
https://www.sourceguardian.com/

my favorite used to be source cop, but i couldn't get license renewal for about a decade. now it looks like they are coming out with a new version at some point.
SourceCop 2020 - Coming Soon

#

Thanks very much for all that.

Adapting to, or anticipating and proactively developing for, the future is an essential skill that has served me well in the past.

I guess I am beginning to realize that I don't like modern times any more, but I still truly love creating new original software tools for others.

And yes, I fess up: I miss Egghead Software!

[Klen]

I used ioncube but i find it annyoing how you need to renew license every xxx years.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by Klen

I used ioncube but i find it annyoing how you need to renew license every xxx years.

I've seen iconcube on some servers using purchased software. I guess it must be a "loader" for encrypted php source?

I am just looking at SourceGuardian - it looks pretty good.

I have a couple b2b applications I want to produce, and I don't want to host my customers' business traffic using the application.

Maybe instead of a desktop version, writing it in php and licensing it out (locked) to their servers might be a workable model. All my prospective customers have servers, and access to some php install competence.

This might work...

[Klen]

Originally Posted by dcortez

I've seen iconcube on some servers using purchased software. I guess it must be a "loader" for encrypted php source?

I am just looking at SourceGuardian - it looks pretty good.

I have a couple b2b applications I want to produce, and I don't want to host my customers' business traffic using the application.

Maybe instead of a desktop version, writing it in php and licensing it out (locked) to their servers might be a workable model. All my prospective customers have servers, and access to some php install competence.

This might work...

Yes, user need to have installed loader in order to make it work.

[zijlstravideo]

Originally Posted by dcortez

Maybe instead of a desktop version, writing it in php and licensing it out (locked) to their servers might be a workable model. All my prospective customers have servers, and access to some php install competence.

This might work...

If you really want to go with an out of the box working desktop client, what about the following work flow:

- Write it in php

- Encrypt certain parts with SourceGuardian

- Package your encrypted source code + the loader + python or php executables together into one CLI executable (plenty of free tools that can do this, which eliminates end-users from having to install php on their local devices)

- Build your graphical user interface on top with node webkit (NWJS), which simply controls your compiled cli tool and returns the output. As well as making the api calls to your server. That way, the end-user won't even need to have his own server or has to install any dependencies. Pretty much an out of the box working solution.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by zijlstravideo

If you really want to go with an out of the box working desktop client, what about the following work flow:

- Write it in php

- Encrypt certain parts with SourceGuardian

- Package your encrypted source code + the loader + python or php executables together into one CLI executable (plenty of free tools that can do this, which eliminates end-users from having to install php on their local devices)

- Build your graphical user interface on top with node webkit (NWJS), which simply controls your compiled cli tool and returns the output. As well as making the api calls to your server. That way, the end-user won't even need to have his own server or has to install any dependencies. Pretty much an out of the box working solution.

Very creative!

Just doing the proof of concept on that would be fun.

For phase one, I will focus on the php, and know that there are options to wrap it all up.

The nature of this application is strictly text processing - no db access required.

I am hoping that SourceGuardian encrypts the plain text data as well, as it will constitute 50% of the value of the IP.

Thanks for your suggestion.

[zijlstravideo]

That's how I like to build my tools for personal use. Well, minus the encryption part, because it's for personal usage. But in theory, it should work.

Here's the tool I use to build the cli executables: https://deneskellner.com/sw/rapidexe
Once you've "compiled" your php code, when the end-user starts the executable for the first time, it simply extracts all the dll files it needs to run the code.

It also "hides" the php source code from being readable with notepad. Even though I don't think it's that hard to decompile the executable, but still... That's where the encryption part comes into play.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by zijlstravideo

That's how I like to build my tools for personal use. Well, minus the encryption part, because it's for personal usage. But in theory, it should work.

Here's the tool I use to build the cli executables: https://deneskellner.com/sw/rapidexe
Once you've "compiled" your php code, when the end-user starts the executable for the first time, it simply extracts all the dll files it needs to run the code.

It also "hides" the php source code from being readable with notepad. Even though I don't think it's that hard to decompile the executable, but still... That's where the encryption part comes into play.

That is neat!

Thank-you very much for that.

[Fenris Wolf]

Interesting read from someone outside of a software background.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by Fenris Wolf

Interesting read from someone outside of a software background.

Interestingly enough, many of the very first adult websites were created and maintained by programmers. They were the only ones who had the skills to cobble together images, access control, and integrated payment processors.

[Why]

oh the idea that there is only one way to code a solution, LOL!

the problem is that no one can steal your code without you giving it to them. and lets face it the cost of software development over the years has plummeted.

most of these duplicate sites are just clones, i can hire a guy in india to clone onlyFans for about $2k, or just about any other site on the internet.

ideas dont mean dick. execution is everything! they dont need to see your code to steal your idea, and moving bits between servers and databases is easy, growing audience and making money is the hard part and that isnt so hard to copy.

[Why]

P.S. IonCode doesnt work, hasnt for over a decade. neither does sourceguardian.

yall clearly never spent much time on in the blackhat part of the inna-nets.

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by Why

oh the idea that there is only one way to code a solution, LOL!

the problem is that no one can steal your code without you giving it to them. and lets face it the cost of software development over the years has plummeted.

most of these duplicate sites are just clones, i can hire a guy in india to clone onlyFans for about $2k, or just about any other site on the internet.

ideas dont mean dick. execution is everything! they dont need to see your code to steal your idea, and moving bits between servers and databases is easy, growing audience and making money is the hard part and that isnt so hard to copy.

Software development cost has plummeted? Looks like I didn't get the memo. Developers cost 3-4x what they did a few years ago (if you can even find one that isn't completely incompetent). You also wouldn't even be able to get the html/css alone made for an onlyfans clone for $2k in India at this point, let alone a whole CMS.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

Software development cost has plummeted? Looks like I didn't get the memo. Developers cost 3-4x what they did a few years ago (if you can even find one that isn't completely incompetent). You also wouldn't even be able to get the html/css alone made for an onlyfans clone for $2k in India at this point, let alone a whole CMS.

I agree with you.

[Why]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

Software development cost has plummeted? Looks like I didn't get the memo. Developers cost 3-4x what they did a few years ago (if you can even find one that isn't completely incompetent). You also wouldn't even be able to get the html/css alone made for an onlyfans clone for $2k in India at this point, let alone a whole CMS.

i guess all those years of just writing adult scripts and such has allowed you to get very out of touch. its very possible to do for $2k and yes project costs have gone down because developer tooling is better, ie: it takes less time.

shit there are two fully functional clones of onlyfans on codecanyon for under $100 each.

but hey, to each their own, for those that can find customers to over pay for stuff, do it!

[Why]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

Software development cost has plummeted? Looks like I didn't get the memo. Developers cost 3-4x what they did a few years ago (if you can even find one that isn't completely incompetent). You also wouldn't even be able to get the html/css alone made for an onlyfans clone for $2k in India at this point, let alone a whole CMS.

also correct me if i am wrong, your script originally cost $1500, and it had a bare minimum set of features, it now costs $500, with 10x as many features, i think you proved my point with that, that costs have dropped. thank you.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by Why

i guess all those years of just writing adult scripts and such has allowed you to get very out of touch. its very possible to do for $2k and yes project costs have gone down because developer tooling is better, ie: it takes less time.

shit there are two fully functional clones of onlyfans on codecanyon for under $100 each.

but hey, to each their own, for those that can find customers to over pay for stuff, do it!

That is like saying how because OVH is cheapest host how other hosts will go out of business - i dont see anyone going out of business because of them.

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by Why

also correct me if i am wrong, your script originally cost $1500, and it had a bare minimum set of features, it now costs $500, with 10x as many features, i think you proved my point with that, that costs have dropped. thank you.

Alright, you are wrong - here is your correction

The script originally cost $1500. It had less features. This part is correct. Now it costs less. However, what you have illustrated is that the cost of SOFTWARE has gone down, not that the cost of SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT has gone down. The script has more features and is at the price point it is because more features were required as the market developed, and the price point was adjusted also according to what the market was willing to pay.

I can sell a script for $2000, less people will buy it because it is less accessible financially. I will have less clients and less support to do and will be able to do it better. I can also sell a script for $20, and a ton of people will buy it and I will spend all day answering questions and making no money, and even doing my best I wouldn't be able to keep up and people will start saying our support is shit. There is a middle-ground where we make enough and can provide good enough services.

The cost of software developers has gone up - alot. Furthermore, not only does it now cost more per hour to develop - user expectations are higher because there is more competition in the market so more features and more hours must be invested into a product. What I'm getting at, is if I had my staff develop MB 10 years ago and today with the exact same feature set, my costs to create it would have been 25% of what it would today.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

Alright, you are wrong - here is your correction

The script originally cost $1500. It had less features. This part is correct. Now it costs less. However, what you have illustrated is that the cost of SOFTWARE has gone down, not that the cost of SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT has gone down. The script has more features and is at the price point it is because more features were required as the market developed, and the price point was adjusted also according to what the market was willing to pay.

I can sell a script for $2000, less people will buy it because it is less accessible financially. I will have less clients and less support to do and will be able to do it better. I can also sell a script for $20, and a ton of people will buy it and I will spend all day answering questions and making no money, and even doing my best I wouldn't be able to keep up and people will start saying our support is shit. There is a middle-ground where we make enough and can provide good enough services.

The cost of software developers has gone up - alot. Furthermore, not only does it now cost more per hour to develop - user expectations are higher because there is more competition in the market so more features and more hours must be invested into a product. What I'm getting at, is if I had my staff develop MB 10 years ago and today with the exact same feature set, my costs to create it would have been 25% of what it would today.

Well put.