US AID to Israël & Palestine

[TheMaster]

just saw this on Insight on CNN, funny in a painfull way:

it comes down to this:

Israël yearly gets:
3 biljon dollar as military aid
0.5 extra this year, because of the downfall in economy, due to the war in Iraq
9 biljon in loans over the next couple of years
+ 128 new F16 fighter jets (special model made for Israël) from Lockhead Martin, bought for them by the US


Palestine yearly gets:
135 miljon in humanitarian aid

is their an inequality here?

of course, why invest in something that is going to be bombed afterwards anyway. But in all faireness, Israël got punished, they lost 200 miljon, 'cause they defended the israeli settlements in Palestine with US material and because of the "Berlin Wall" they're building across the whole country.

So, please write your congressman or whatever, let's stop investing in arms for other countries, put this money in humanitarian help and social security, pensions, better education, etc.

[racksale]

I think it's kind of tough for a country having it's kids getting intentionally suicide-bombed every week, to not put some sort of protective measure up.

Your intentions are good, but unfortunately social security and pensions are total disasters to our economy and are the government's way of telling people that they're too stupid to invest by themselves. If people are relying on social security/pensions to keep them going after retirement, they're stuck thinking in the context of the 1960's. Rich Dad, Poor Dad... it's a good read that goes into more detail about all of this.

[TheMaster]

Originally posted by racksale
I think it's kind of tough for a country having it's kids getting intentionally suicide-bombed every week, to not put some sort of protective measure up.

true, very true, there isn't a human alive that is more against suicide bombers than I am. It's pure cowerdness, there is certainly no honor in it and it is evil. The purest form of evil I ever saw was this palestinian mother who coached her sons to become a suicide bomber, she already lost 2 sons that way, now she was preparing the 3rd one. The father of the finally was completely crushed, that man was going to do 1 of 2 things or even both: kill his wife or commit normal suicide. I'm against capital punishment, but I would have shot a bullet between her eyes without hesitation.
You don't kill unarmed civilians that's the point, you fight soldiers, that's war, not this.

BUT the same thing happens on the other side, apartment blocks are bombed from within Israeli tanks and plains. A lot of innocent people get killed this way + a lot of people die of bad living conditions. Israel is rich, why the hell give them all that money? They should rather give the money to the UN and put a UN soldier every 50m across the borders and stop this war, not give more money for weapens.

Your intentions are good, but unfortunately social security and pensions are total disasters to our economy and are the government's way of telling people that they're too stupid to invest by themselves. If people are relying on social security/pensions to keep them going after retirement, they're stuck thinking in the context of the 1960's. Rich Dad, Poor Dad... it's a good read that goes into more detail about all of this.

Can't agree with you on that, you have to have extra cash to invest. Also, how can you turn down health care to people? If they can't pay, everyone should pay a little, so everyone gets the treatment they deserve. BTW pensions don't have to be that high, they just should provide in basic living costs. The US has a 15% poverty rate, this is unheard of in western countries, european countries and canada don't have this problems, they have the benefits and it works, sometimes it's hard to make the balance, but we still get through it. Health care is such a fundamental right, that it can't be denied at anyone.
What good is democracy, freedom, ... if you're starving?

Remember the values of the French Revolution (all western democracies are a result of this revolution): Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood. This implies helping your fellow man.

And if your religieus, you can't approve the current condition, I mean aren't religions all about brotherhood and love for your fellow man (except maybe protestants, they seem to believe that making a lot of money will get you a place in heaven.

Myself being an atheist, a humanist and a socialist (no, not communist, it's like a left US democrate) can't tolerate these things, sorry

[racksale]

Your point is well taken. However, the fundamental starting point for any peace plan in that region, is completely cease fire of terrorist attacks from militant groups, and hell will freeze over before that happens. Therefore, nothing can be done without action (or inaction in this case), on the part of the Palestinian militant groups, first. Also, there's a huge difference between intentional suicide bombing of civilians vs. collateral damage of precision strikes against ring leaders. The UN can only do so much in these situations, it's up to the 2 involved parties to make the big steps towards peace.

You didn't mention healthcare in your initial post, which I do think is definitely a legitimate issue with the rising costs of prescription medications nowadays. However, on the other points, you're definitely taking a completely socialistic view of society, which is far from the capitalism which has made the USA the great nation that it is.

Also, there is a huge fallacy that you need lots of money to make money... (it's a catch-22 in itself). What I'm talking about is putting the maximum amount of money into your 401k and Roth IRA, save up and buy some real estate (instead of renting) so that your house hopefully appreciates and becomes an investment, and diversify your streams of income. Instead, what people are doing is drowning themselves into the debt of buying a half million dollar house with 2 SUV's and playing golf with the buddies when they can barely squeeze out their interest payments. And then they expect companies to bail them out with pensions and the government to come riding along and saving the day with social security.

I used to have a very similar thought process to your point of view, a few years ago. I thought big corporations were evil, and that the government should tax higher income people more. Little did I know, that I was just trapped in a vicious brainwashed cycle, which would lead to only gloom! Then I came across Rich Dad, Poor Dad... which you should read, you'll see what I mean. I am all for helping the needy, but not at the cost of making everybody else earn the same amount of money, you saw how well that went in Russia.

[yeviking]

TheMaster:
You don't know what you talking about.
Im live here and I can tell you for sure that what you saw in CNN is crap!

israel isn't reach country at all!

"Israël yearly gets:
3 biljon dollar as military aid
0.5 extra this year, because of the downfall in economy, due to the war in Iraq
9 biljon in loans over the next couple of years
+ 128 new F16 fighter jets (special model made for Israël) from Lockhead Martin, bought for them by the US"

1. you can be sure That the palestinians isn't poor!
Saudi Arabia,Syria,iran and more countries send them 100's billions of dollars,their government corrupt! , they steal the money and leave their peaple starving, just few weeks ago 300 milion dollars was found in arafat's secret bank account.
they should be punished for their stealings,not israel,we manage our money like normal democratic country.

2. you forget that we have some neighbors that want to destroy israel (Syria,iran,lebanon) then we have to be always ready, don't you think so?


"because of the "Berlin Wall" they're building across the whole country"
WTF?! you don't know a shit, people are afraid going in the streets,to get into buses,go to shoping,discotecs,
this border will stop this terrorists (hope you will not argue on this), not 100% of them but it will save lifes.


Isreal not bombing a building with some innocent people to kill them, its because their terrorist are always hiding in buildings where there is lotes of women and childrens, its looking "good" in CNN right?


"put a UN soldier every 50m across the borders and stop this war, not give more money for weapens."

you know what happend few years ago in lebanon?
UN soldier saw a terrosits kidnapping 3 soldiers and didn't do nothing. just watch. VERY good job!

think about it, and remmember CNN drawing to you unreal picture.

[reynold]

I haven't really seen tangible changes in foreign policy arising from a BBS discussion. But then, you never know.

[GonePhishing]

Very well written posts!

[Paul Markham]

This war will never stop until the people supporting it are stopped. In the US you have a lobby forcing the goverment to give Israel money and in the Middle East you have the same kind of people giving money to Palestinians. Most of it is spent back with the countries providing it.

The two sides have a minority who are committed to killing each other and the majority go along with it. They start talking peace, the terrorist do something to stop the talks and wonder of all wonders, the talks stop. The Israelis don't even attempt to continue, they just do what the terrorist want.

Terrorists see suport for them is lagging, they send over a suicide bomber and the army comes back knocking down houses and terrorising people. Support is back with the terrorists.

60 years ago the country under British rule was Palestinine, Jews started coming from Europe, started a terrorist war against the English, who left sick of losing people to cowardly attacks and the Jews declared the State of Israel.

For many years they were attacked by the "Arabs" who could not fight their way out of a paper bag. And continued to expand the country stealing land from the people who lived there for centuries.

They make it as hard as they can for Palestinians to live in Israel and perscute them, which just fuels the hate.

They seem to forget they are living in a country they stole, all be it with the UN backing which was being pushed by the Jewish lobby. How many citizens of Israel can trace back three generations who have lived in there and how many Palestinians can?

They took it with terrorism, keep it with terror and complain when someone hits back with terrororism.

[radical]

It's a crazy world we live in!

[yeviking]

charly:

I agree with 90% of what you saying in this part


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This war will never stop until the people supporting it are stopped. In the US you have a lobby forcing the goverment to give Israel money and in the Middle East you have the same kind of people giving money to Palestinians. Most of it is spent back with the countries providing it.

The two sides have a minority who are committed to killing each other and the majority go along with it. They start talking peace, the terrorist do something to stop the talks and wonder of all wonders, the talks stop. The Israelis don't even attempt to continue, they just do what the terrorist want.

Terrorists see suport for them is lagging, they send over a suicide bomber and the army comes back knocking down houses and terrorising people. Support is back with the terrorists."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem that you don't understand that their leaders are involved with the terror, they support it.
and im sorry but after a bus, full of people was exploded,
the goverment can't just move on like nothing hapend.


----------------------------------------------------------
They seem to forget they are living in a country they stole, all be it with the UN backing which was being pushed by the Jewish lobby. How many citizens of Israel can trace back three generations who have lived in there and how many Palestinians can?
----------------------------------------------------------

CRAP!
This country was jews 2000 years,open an history book! (and bible)
We didn't stole anything, Its just our. and 50 years ago when Hitler started to kill the jews people they was looking for another place..like UK,USA and more..but they just didn't accpet them. They gave to hitler permission to keep going..
Now we have our own country and we can defend ourselfs.

[Dusen]

Originally posted by TheMaster

true, very true, there isn't a human alive that is more against suicide bombers than I am. It's pure cowerdness, there is certainly no honor in it and it is evil. true, very true, there isn't a human alive that is more against suicide bombers than I am. It's pure cowerdness, there is certainly no honor in it and it is evil.

I couldn't agree more with you it is a sad waste of life, however you may find suicide bombings abhorrent, disgusting, savage, but how can you call them cowards?

When was the last time you died for something you believed in?

When a soldier goes to war and risks his life, it is bravery. When a man looks death in the eye but walks ahead anyways because he believes it might make a difference it's cowardice?

[mikeeee]

That's what's so sad, Isreal would vanish in 6 weeks if we didnt support them, the sad part is that I can think of at least 50 cities here in our home land I'd rather my tax dollars be spent on.

Let them fight there own battle. I want my money back.

[Dusen]

I see the Israel - Palestine situation as basically unsolvable. I feel neither side is "Right" (I am of course ignorant about what is REALLY going on), but I have a lot of sympathy for the palestians.

I see both sides with valid points and neither one will concede.

How would Americans feel if someone walked in (Let's call them Duseania) after a few thousand years of living in North America and told them "This is our land, get out". Think they'd go quietly? People are innately stubborn.

That having been said, imagine Duseania had an incredible military 8 times as powerful as the USA's, and another superpower was backing them financially and with military support.

This is how I believe the palestinians see things.

It's just sad, unfortunately. Two people fighting for something they believe in their hearts that they are right. No way to solve that.

[mikeeee]

Originally posted by Dusen
(I am of course ignorant about what is REALLY going on)

I wish everyone would say that, and just admit that they really and truly do not know what the fuck is going on in the world, other than talking out of their asses and just relaying what CNN and FOX say.

I agree wit Dusen

[yeviking]

you are living in a bubble and nothing I wll say now ,will change it.

keep looking CNN and keep talking about thinks you Don't know a shit about.

Have fun.

[jattt]

We fund Israel because they have the same values that we do, NO TERRORISM and Democracy , you could lay blame on all you wan't but the terrorism is an internal problem of the Islamic nations, they can scapegoat all they wan't but it not gonna help them, many of the suicide bombers are even educated and wealthy ( even in 911 ), so they have a layer of brainwashing before all they know. Even Bin Ladin was a wealthy educated person, Arafat is so corrupt, he keeps all the money in his personal accounts, no palestinian get anything, there is no point funding him, it will lead to funding terrorism. I do know that Jordan holds more land disputed then Israel does, but when Arafat made an uprising there, they slaughtered 10000 palestinians in 1 day, while Israel casualties were less then 2000 over the long long course, including militants and suicide bombers,, The USA has the right side on this, No Doubt,

The palestinians need real leadership, not greedy terrorists, but i do feel bad for those young palestinians who grow up to be raised as tools for bombs, seing posters of past suicide bombers and admiring them, the hatful education they get and in the media etc...

[Deepsy1]

politics sucks

[loverboy]

3 billon dollar as military aid + 128 new F16 fighter jets = Israel

i don't see any ceasefire with that expansion, just another
reason for them to kill each other.

[Thrawn$]

Jewish owns the US

[12clicks]

Once the Palestinians are dead, we'll be a lot closer to peace.
They're in their predicament because of their actions, nothing more.
If they knew how to live in peace, they would be treated differently.

[Thrawn$]

We gonna see who wil die first

[12clicks]

Originally posted by Thrawn$
We gonna see who wil die first

still rooting for terrorists?
your parents did a piss poor job with you.

[Thrawn$]

Originally posted by 12clicks


still rooting for terrorists?
your parents did a piss poor job with you.

I know that peoples you callling terrorist today saves millions of jewish during the second war, all these jewish fag goes to arabs country to hide from nazis, and now this is how you thanks arabs, You kill them....

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by yeviking
Isreal not bombing a building with some innocent people to kill them, its because their terrorist are always hiding in buildings where there is lotes of women and childrens, its looking "good" in CNN right?

Most of the time, but this still is a form of terrorism.
The situation will never be solved, since both sides accuses the other, retaliates and attack the other side...

Here is now a new recruit of terrorism:



A Palestinian man looks at the debris of his house after the Israeli authorities demolished it because it was built without a permit in east Jerusalem on December 10, 2003. REUTERS/Oleg Popov

[yeviking]

Originally posted by Thrawn$


I know that peoples you callling terrorist today saves millions of jewish during the second war, all these jewish fag goes to arabs country to hide from nazis, and now this is how you thanks arabs, You kill them....

you are simply, anti-Semite, people like you is the reason for what hapends in Europe in the middle of World War 2.

1. When you will understand that this land was ours 1000's of years ago? most of the jews left the country to Europe but there was always jews here. when the jews came back home the arabs didn't Saved lifes,they try to kill the people that came here.

and Israel not "Kill them" , Its a war , and there is 2 parts,they blow our buses and we try to catch those terrosits.
like USA did in Afganistan and Iraq after the terrorists attack in NY.

[yeviking]

Originally posted by directfiesta
Most of the time, but this still is a form of terrorism.
The situation will never be solved, since both sides accuses the other, retaliates and attack the other side...

Here is now a new recruit of terrorism:



A Palestinian man looks at the debris of his house after the Israeli authorities demolished it because it was built without a permit in east Jerusalem on December 10, 2003. REUTERS/Oleg Popov

Let me ask you a question...
Whenever you live, In your city, you saw a land,Big one,with possibility to build very big house on it.
what you will do?
Im assume that first you will buy the land and then you will get approval to build on it. Im right?
Its a legal process in most of the countries,lets say you didn't do it and just came to the land and build you house there, your govermant will not destroy it?

Its the same situation here, like you said
"because it was built without a permit in east Jerusalem"
then what the problem here?
Its just looking very sad in the pic but we live in a democratic country with Rules.

[TheMaster]

Originally posted by yeviking
[B]TheMaster:
You don't know what you talking about.
Im live here and I can tell you for sure that what you saw in CNN is crap!

israel isn't reach country at all!

according to the World Bank: Israel: High income on ]http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/CLASS.XLS

1. you can be sure That the palestinians isn't poor!

Hamas, etc... are rich, ordinary palestinians aren't rich

Saudi Arabia

never said anything good about the Saudis, they're one of the biggest financiers of the terrorists, but nothing is done against them, because of the US, they protect them for their oil. So yes, the US is giving to both sides, this should stop.

Syria,iran and more countries send them 100's billions of dollars,their government corrupt! , they steal the money and leave their peaple starving, just few weeks ago 300 milion dollars was found in arafat's secret bank account.
they should be punished for their stealings,not israel,we manage our money like normal democratic country.

yes they should be punished, both sides, this misery is profitable for everyone, except normal Israeli and normal Palestinians. Oh, get that bastard of a right wing premier out of office,'cause with him in control there will never be peace

2. you forget that we have some neighbors that want to destroy israel (Syria,iran,lebanon) then we have to be always ready, don't you think so?

you have had military superiority on them for decades, I mean the war with Egypt was just so funny, was that even a war. You can have a defence against these countries, but you can't use your military against your own people or your ex-own people. If you make peace with Palistine and threat them well, everyone's official reason and thus support for hating Israel will be gone. BTW no one is really going to attack Israel in a full scale war.

this border will stop this terrorists (hope you will not argue on this), not 100% of them but it will save lifes.

this wall ain't going to stop one fucking terrorist, if you believe that, you're stupid. It just 'causes more frustration and hate.

Isreal not bombing a building with some innocent people to kill them, its because their terrorist are always hiding in buildings where there is lotes of women and childrens, its looking "good" in CNN right?

this is again that cowardness I have no respect for, but it ain't a reason to bomb it, just get your elite teams in there and arrange extractions. You can, after the US, you've got the best trained teams.

you know what happend few years ago in lebanon?
UN soldier saw a terrosits kidnapping 3 soldiers and didn't do nothing. just watch. VERY good job!

you know why, 'cause the UN doesn't get the power it should have, the US didn't give permission to intervine.

[quote]think about it, and remmember CNN drawing to you unreal picture.[/QUOTE
look I was just talking about the men at the top on both sides, that they are reason for this war and that they can stop it, but it doesn't seem that any of them really wants to, so you as a people should revolt and demand a peace. And yes it has been done before, 2 weeks ago in Georgia

[Thrawn$]

Originally posted by yeviking


you are simply, anti-Semite,

Classic

[TheMaster]

Originally posted by Dusen


I couldn't agree more with you it is a sad waste of life, however you may find suicide bombings abhorrent, disgusting, savage, but how can you call them cowards?

When was the last time you died for something you believed in?

When a soldier goes to war and risks his life, it is bravery. When a man looks death in the eye but walks ahead anyways because he believes it might make a difference it's cowardice?

yes I can, 'cause they blow up busses etc with innocent people, why don't they attack the army right on? Does he lack the bravery to do this? Okay you might be right, still think it's the sickest thing you can do. Or maybe it's cowardness 'cause you don't sit out your life, in a way, it's an easy way out of the misery, you're too weak to really fight or do anything about it, so you just kill yourself.

[TheMaster]

Originally posted by 12clicks
Once the Palestinians are dead, we'll be a lot closer to peace.
They're in their predicament because of their actions, nothing more.
If they knew how to live in peace, they would be treated differently.

oh my god, one thing I have to say on this: Sieg Heil. You an arian, extreme right wing christian fascist maybe?

[TheMaster]

Originally posted by yeviking



Let me ask you a question...
Whenever you live, In your city, you saw a land,Big one,with possibility to build very big house on it.
what you will do?
Im assume that first you will buy the land and then you will get approval to build on it. Im right?
Its a legal process in most of the countries,lets say you didn't do it and just came to the land and build you house there, your govermant will not destroy it?

Its the same situation here, like you said
"because it was built without a permit in east Jerusalem"
then what the problem here?
Its just looking very sad in the pic but we live in a democratic country with Rules.

question is of course, would they do the same with an Israli's house. Normally in a western democracy, you can get the permit afterwards, if for some reason you can't build there, then there shouldn't be build a house there for the coming 15 years, 'cause of zoning laws or something

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by yeviking



Let me ask you a question...
Whenever you live, In your city, you saw a land,Big one,with possibility to build very big house on it.
what you will do?
Im assume that first you will buy the land and then you will get approval to build on it. Im right?
Its a legal process in most of the countries,lets say you didn't do it and just came to the land and build you house there, your govermant will not destroy it?

Its the same situation here, like you said
"because it was built without a permit in east Jerusalem"
then what the problem here?
Its just looking very sad in the pic but we live in a democratic country with Rules.

Who's rule? Israeli or Palestinian....

And honestly, with all the illegal settlements built by the Israeli, it is hard to be moralized on this subject...

[yeviking]

Originally posted by TheMaster


question is of course, would they do the same with an Israli's house.

yes.
and its a part of israel -> israeli rules

[MrIzzz]

this could become the longest thread in history because there is no solution to this problem and we'll go around in circles forever!


anyway, israel has no claim to the land. why didnt they stay and defend it 2000 years ago?

and if we start giving back old lands just because there was a civilization that once lived there, then let the native americans have america back, make mongolia a real country, give australia back to the aborigines, etc....

lets drop all the borders of the world and live in harmony


ahhhhhhhhhhh

deal with life, or leave

[yeviking]

Originally posted by Thrawn$


Classic

Its the situation, and its not funny at all.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by yeviking


yes.
and its a part of israel -> israeli rules

So Iraq is part of the USA ----> USA rules

???

What type of logic do you have? If you do have one.

[TheMaster]

Originally posted by racksale
Your point is well taken. However, the fundamental starting point for any peace plan in that region, is completely cease fire of terrorist attacks from militant groups, and hell will freeze over before that happens. Therefore, nothing can be done without action (or inaction in this case), on the part of the Palestinian militant groups, first. Also, there's a huge difference between intentional suicide bombing of civilians vs. collateral damage of precision strikes against ring leaders. The UN can only do so much in these situations, it's up to the 2 involved parties to make the big steps towards peace.

point is that what the israeli army is doing, is also terroristic. It's not collateral damage, if you bomb an apartment building just to get a couple of terrorists, then it's murder, terrorism. Again get those elite troupes in there. Collateral damage is so misused nowadays, it's like carpet bombing and then saying collateral damage is normal. Collateral damage should be accidental in this day and age, I mean, I hope we have evolved ethically sinds WOII.

You didn't mention healthcare in your initial post, which I do think is definitely a legitimate issue with the rising costs of prescription medications nowadays. However, on the other points, you're definitely taking a completely socialistic view of society, which is far from the capitalism which has made the USA the great nation that it is.

socialists are also capitalists. We just tend to think that there should be some rules, so no one should have to live in poverty, that every one is tacken care of. The US is very good at greatness as a superpower, but it's lacking in compassion. In Europe the whole system is more socialistic and that's why we tend to more focus on equality then on freedom, it's just the next step. We have been free for over a century, both US and Europe, now the equality should kick in.

Also, there is a huge fallacy that you need lots of money to make money... (it's a catch-22 in itself). What I'm talking about is putting the maximum amount of money into your 401k and Roth IRA, save up and buy some real estate (instead of renting) so that your house hopefully appreciates and becomes an investment, and diversify your streams of income. Instead, what people are doing is drowning themselves into the debt of buying a half million dollar house with 2 SUV's and playing golf with the buddies when they can barely squeeze out their interest payments. And then they expect companies to bail them out with pensions and the government to come riding along and saving the day with social security.

no no, we have a totally different view on this, 'cause we live in different systems, pensions, health care & social security are not a company matter over here, the state controls this, the taxes we pay go into those programs. + they are strickter over here about getting yourself into debt. If you want to buy all those things, you should or have a big part of the money already or make a lot of money. If you get into debt, you'll have to pay it of, social security doesn't pay for such things.

I used to have a very similar thought process to your point of view, a few years ago. I thought big corporations were evil, and that the government should tax higher income people more. Little did I know, that I was just trapped in a vicious brainwashed cycle, which would lead to only gloom! Then I came across Rich Dad, Poor Dad... which you should read, you'll see what I mean. I am all for helping the needy, but not at the cost of making everybody else earn the same amount of money, you saw how well that went in Russia.

I don't think, they're evil, I just think it's the government and justice that should make sure they don't do anything evil. But wages aren't the same, everybody just pays a percentage of their taxes, lower incomes are just taxed less, but not that big of a difference. If you earn well, you will live well.
Everybody should get the same basic opportunities: good education, good health care, ...
BUT if you fuck up, it's your mess, the state won't bail you out, but if you are the victim of a unfortunate situation of no fault of your own, it's not you who should pay the bill.
take college, how much to study in the States, UK, etc ... $30000 (tuition) a year or so. Who the hell can pay for this, we pay $500 (tuition) a year, Finland it's only $15 or so, yes really, and the Scandinavian countries have the highest living conditions in the world, belgium is right after them, one regions even rank first in the world.

[HarlotCash Dyker]

yeviking-
I am neither for Jews nor against them - But my opinion of Jews is often blighted because of their unrequenting rants -
I expect you know a fair bit about the knesset and the Isreal secret services?
If so, can you explain to me how Isreal, back in the early seventies, using under-cover agents talked Arafat into using nearly all the money the Palestine government had into buying a non existent cache of arms in Germany - And all the money went to Isreal? (Another occassion a similar trick was used to steal their cash using hash for weapons)

Also, if you say the Jews were there 2 thousand years ago - Where was Jesus born, and in which country?

The real fact is, America has backed Isreal to the hilt - Israel never honoured any of the peace accords when Arafat was a willing partner - You made a fool of him to his people several times over - And situations like mothers coaxing sons to be suicide bombers are the result of that.

As for the American government - They have often backed one regime, only to pay a bigger price later on - Iraq, for instance, springs to mind.

The answer in Isreal is easier than it sounds - Take both the army and religeon out of their government - For Palestine, the answer isn't quite so simple - Arafat has been humiliated too many times, and far too much land has been stolen -

Nobody wants to see another child killed - No more American cash for Israel would probably ensure fewer child burials in Palestine.

[TheMaster]

Originally posted by MrIzzz
this could become the longest thread in history because there is no solution to this problem and we'll go around in circles forever!


anyway, israel has no claim to the land. why didnt they stay and defend it 2000 years ago?

and if we start giving back old lands just because there was a civilization that once lived there, then let the native americans have america back, make mongolia a real country, give australia back to the aborigines, etc....

lets drop all the borders of the world and live in harmony


ahhhhhhhhhhh

deal with life, or leave

wait wait maybe you're onto something, let's use this logic for Australia and the US: Americans and Australians you will be kicked out of your country, you can then go live in international waters or you can come to Europe, you just have to pay me a 0.5 miljon fee and I'll let you in. I'll be rich in no time.

Just frustration, I want to go to California, but it costs like 0.5 miljon to be permitted to settle there legally. Australia is cheaper, New Zealand is between the 2 of them.

[Roger]

An Israeli soldier wrote a book describing how he and his fellow soldiers treated the Palestinians at checkpoints. Article here.

Most Palestinians and many Israelis who're born there will become criminals, it's not an environment you'd want your kids to live in. There violent actions don't suprise me but the settlements however are quiet hard for me to understand. Land grabbing is quiet pathetic if you ask me.

If it wasn't for terrorism like the attack on the King David Hotel, Israel wouldn't have existed and if it wasn't for Arafat's terrorism later on, the Palestinians would've stayed in exile and nobody would've cared.

[TheMaster]

watching this documentary on BBC2: seems the british are to be blaimed for a big part.

Britain promised the arabs, that they could have their own country in Palestine (occupied by the Turks at that time), if they would along their side against the German-Austrian-Turkish alliance in WO I. The arabs agread, but during the WO I, the jewish lobby put pressure on the brits to have their own country there and they agreed to this. So, britain sold the land two times!