CCBILL versus IBILL - GoFuckYourself.com

chromium · 10-13-2004, 05:57 PM

Ibill news has certainly been bad recently. People being fired. Those that usually post here suddenly quiet. Lensman and adult.com having a financial interest and considering lawyers.

I was one of those that left IBill when the new Visa changes went into effect. I lost many rebills, a serious financial hit October 2002.

I had been with them since 1997 but in late 2001 credit card owner customer service was extremely poor and their employed lackeys pressed the charge back button too freely. That was why I left IBill... knowing my chargeback percentage would be too high, as a small paysite owner.

No wonder why they had bank issues bringing them to the current state of affairs.

IBill being purchased by Penthouse did not help their public image. Now, in the national news, discussion about Ibill having contracted with Merrick bank, which, as I understand, CCBILL also uses causes me personal concern.

What will CCBILL do to protect itself if they are indeed using Merrick. It my personal view, they are the last standing of quality (verotel has "pro" clients but building a contorted AVS which will be a house a cards soon to fall, bringing all down).

Does CBILL have more than one bank relationship for Visa? Due to the IBill situation, I invite a statement from CCBILL and general comment.

sexeducation · 10-13-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chromium
Ibill news has certainly been bad recently. People being fired. Those that usually post here suddenly quiet. Lensman and adult.com having a financial interest and considering lawyers.

I was one of those that left IBill when the new Visa changes went into effect. I lost many rebills, a serious financial hit October 2002.

I had been with them since 1997 but in late 2001 credit card owner customer service was extremely poor and their employed lackeys pressed the charge back button too freely. That was why I left IBill... knowing my chargeback percentage would be too high, as a small paysite owner.

No wonder why they had bank issues bringing them to the current state of affairs.

IBill being purchased by Penthouse did not help their public image. Now, in the national news, discussion about Ibill having contracted with Merrick bank, which, as I understand, CCBILL also uses causes me personal concern.

What will CCBILL do to protect itself if they are indeed using Merrick. It my personal view, they are the last standing of quality (verotel has "pro" clients but building a contorted AVS which will be a house a cards soon to fall, bringing all down).

Does CBILL have more than one bank relationship for Visa? Due to the IBill situation, I invite a statement from CCBILL and general comment.

Very interesting ...

I think we need a change of administration.

Adults have a right to reasonable access to the information age.

It seems like the whole adult industry is being TARGETED for shut down?

Webby · 10-13-2004, 06:09 PM

chromium:

Your comments about banking relationships may be at the heart of the problem. I'd hate to be in any business that relied on one bank, - whether contracts were in place or not.

I don't know the inner workings of iBill.. so can't correctly comment, - but as a rough rule, there is, or supposed to be, a different bank to cover each banking region. Hence, if iBill are trading within Europe, they would have a banking partnership there.

I does appear the main problem was with the US bank, First Data. It "may" be that the organisation of iBill was so centralised that all funds/transactions from all regions are in the one melting pot. Who knows? :-)

chromium · 10-13-2004, 06:24 PM

The scary part ... and why I posted is what about CCBILL? As I understand it uses one bank for VISA USA.

If anything, anyone reading this board will no longer do business with iBill... so either a sudden or slow death.

Why is CCBILL, which I use, protected from such a future iBill event (besides poor management of funds).

Cogitator · 10-13-2004, 06:32 PM

Maybe CCBill wasn't involved in illegal activities? :-(

chromium · 10-13-2004, 06:39 PM

IBill had been a private company, wisely sold in March of 2002 before the new VISA regs. It has been sold twice.... almost a third time.

Again I ask about CCBILL, as a client

sexeducation · 10-13-2004, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chromium
IBill had been a private company, wisely sold in March of 2002 before the new VISA regs. It has been sold twice.... almost a third time.

Again I ask about CCBILL, as a client

Bump for Chromium

I'm interested in the answer too ...

Someone answer

Bomber8888 · 10-13-2004, 07:08 PM

A double BUMP.. I wanna hear this too!

chromium · 10-13-2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
I does appear the main problem was with the US bank, First Data. It "may" be that the organisation of iBill was so centralised that all funds/transactions from all regions are in the one melting pot. Who knows? :-) [/B]

I don't know about you... but 85% of my income comes from USA.

xclusive · 10-13-2004, 07:45 PM

%95 of mine comes from the us...

AMADude · 10-13-2004, 07:49 PM

How about we all get our own merchant accounts and say fuck them all?

aico · 10-13-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cogitator
Maybe CCBill wasn't involved in illegal activities? :-(

EXACTLY!!! It's not just by chance the IBill lost their ISPS ability... they did some shady shit... Like using offshore processing without telling any of their clients...

And anyone who falls for their little $1,500 scam is in for a big surprise down the road. What they don't tell you is that you can be fined for Chargebacks, not iBill, and fines can be in the thousands of $$$... a lot of other shit the leave out too... go figure. But what do they say about it? "Just sign it and fax it back"...

Fuck IBill, people get what they deserve. Karma is a bitch.

baddog · 10-13-2004, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AMADude
How about we all get our own merchant accounts and say fuck them all?

easier said than done

vicki · 10-13-2004, 08:56 PM

Its an interesting angle you bring up and something I think all of us in the industry should pay close attention to.

The best way to protect yourselves is just what AMAdude mentioned and thats getting your own merchant accounts to have as backup or to use in conjunction with an IPSP in cascading billing.

HOWEVER, .. baddog is right, merchant accounts aren't for everyone!
Those applying should know a few facts on what goes into consideration on approval and rates from a merchant bank:

monthly volume
cb ratios for the past few months
per transaction amounts
product or service type
credit history

the good news is that it's FREE to apply, so if you feel comfortable with those things listed above why not give it a shot?
Another great factor is the difference between fees you pay a IPSP and those you pay for a merc account and processing , not to mention greater control over your customer base and contesting charge backs.

Finally, IMHO, its always good practice for processors of any type to have a good working relationship with more than one banking entity.

chromium · 10-13-2004, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vicki
Those applying should know a few facts on what goes into consideration on approval and rates from a merchant bank:

monthly volume
cb ratios for the past few months
per transaction amounts
product or service type
credit history

the good news is that it's FREE to apply, so if you feel comfortable with those things listed above why not give it a shot?

Without a CCBILL response thus far, perhaps even the small quality solid paysites should escape the third-party formula that seems to be failing.

vicki · 10-13-2004, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chromium
Without a CCBILL response thus far, perhaps even the small quality solid paysites should escape the third-party formula that seems to be failing.

it's a wonder more aren't trying actually .. the fact is a high percentage of apps are approved

Webby · 10-13-2004, 09:47 PM

chromium:

Quote:

The scary part ... and why I posted is what about CCBILL? As I understand it uses one bank for VISA USA.

If anything, anyone reading this board will no longer do business with iBill... so either a sudden or slow death.

Why is CCBILL, which I use, protected from such a future iBill event (besides poor management of funds).

Yes, I believe CCBill also has a similiar "one banking" relationship - at least for the US.

One thing I would like to know (any answers out there?) - is there some "law" or maybe "rule", imposed by anyone, such as VISA US, that states there should only be one bank involved in processing funds??

Even from a basic common sense business angle, this is total crap. It offers processors very little security, even in their own minds. More relevant, it does not provide security to clients.

I'll harp back to shit I've been spewing for years now:-) The concept of a processor "owning" membership databases is nonsense. I understand why, but that does not make it right, - it's actually very wrong.

The other bit is... processors are holding other people's money. This needs protecting in the event of the demise of the company. Hence, processors "should" be providing some guarantee or security in the hands of a third party, before engaging on any processing for a client.

Clearly this is not without practical problems, not least being the finance available within a third party processing operation. However, there can be some form of insurance indemnity or similar and although this may cost, it can be split 50/50 between the processing company and the client, - if they so wished.

The current attitude of filling in a load of forms and being "approved" and "legal" is bullshit. The onus is actually on the other side and with processors to proove their credibility.

Summary.. frankly, I've never trusted any third party processing company since shit hit the fan a few years back. Processing is not an easy business to operate under the crap from VISA and other card monopolies.

My only suggestion is get global and operate in several banking regions and never give any one processor all your business, especially one operating under VISA US conditions.

vicki · 10-13-2004, 10:00 PM

webby

Quote:

I believe CCBill also has a similiar "one banking" relationship - at least for the US

I know CCBill uses Merrick .. I think thats who IBill just contracted with also .. not positive.

Quote:

One thing I would like to know (any answers out there?) - is there some "law" or maybe "rule", imposed by anyone, such as VISA US, that states there should only be one bank involved in processing funds

No .. at least as an ISO we have none

wtfent · 10-13-2004, 10:05 PM

I was using card service international for about a year and they were very good to me until one very bad day. Everything looked just fine, sales were at an all time high, affilaites were getting credit for sales, our prducts were being shipped out very quickly. The only problem was a big problem no money was going into our bank account. I called them to see whats up and they said my account had been terminated and my funds froze for 180 days because they no longer wish to do business with adult merchants. Three days later which was about 7 days after we noticed no money was going into our account I got a letter saying my account was terminated. I lost out on so much money that month it wasnt even funny. The thing that pissed me off the most is that they terminated our account without first notifying us. They were supposed to give us a 30 day notice but didnt. Fucked up huh. Lesson learned: ALWAYS HAVE A BACK UP!

mikesouth · 10-14-2004, 01:05 PM

BUMP!

I'd like to see a CCBill response to this

ibbunk · 10-14-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cogitator
Maybe CCBill wasn't involved in illegal activities? :-(

Your an idiot.

Major (Tom) · 10-14-2004, 02:28 PM

yea its like sharing a room with someone who has herpes. Its not likley it will effect u, but its enough to make you wash your hands every 5 minutes...
Duke

V_RocKs · 10-14-2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wtfent
I was using card service international for about a year and they were very good to me until one very bad day. Everything looked just fine, sales were at an all time high, affilaites were getting credit for sales, our prducts were being shipped out very quickly. The only problem was a big problem no money was going into our bank account. I called them to see whats up and they said my account had been terminated and my funds froze for 180 days because they no longer wish to do business with adult merchants. Three days later which was about 7 days after we noticed no money was going into our account I got a letter saying my account was terminated. I lost out on so much money that month it wasnt even funny. The thing that pissed me off the most is that they terminated our account without first notifying us. They were supposed to give us a 30 day notice but didnt. Fucked up huh. Lesson learned: ALWAYS HAVE A BACK UP!

Another reason to use EPOCH, they only do adult.

chromium · 10-15-2004, 05:02 PM

I recently saw a CCBILL welcoming a new client. I await a reply to this thread.

Dr. Wicks · 10-15-2004, 05:20 PM

Chromium,

CCBill is a private entity and not a public company and therefore we have no shareholders to appease. Our banking relationships are very strong as well as our relationships with the card associations.
All in all, we are on solid ground and will continue business as usual for a long time to come.

chromium · 10-15-2004, 05:36 PM

thank you Dr. Wicks for your reply

I have been pleased ever since moving to CCBILL. Excellent internet interface, quick resolving of problems via the telephone.

I dont know if other firms like globill were public when they closed, but once IBILL was exposed as owned by Penthouse it became an issue and their future remains questionable.

Thank you Dr. Wicks for your official CCBILL response, reassuring the MANY of us during this difficult period.

10-13-2004, 05:57 PM	#1
chromium Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 100	CCBILL versus IBILL Ibill news has certainly been bad recently. People being fired. Those that usually post here suddenly quiet. Lensman and adult.com having a financial interest and considering lawyers. I was one of those that left IBill when the new Visa changes went into effect. I lost many rebills, a serious financial hit October 2002. I had been with them since 1997 but in late 2001 credit card owner customer service was extremely poor and their employed lackeys pressed the charge back button too freely. That was why I left IBill... knowing my chargeback percentage would be too high, as a small paysite owner. No wonder why they had bank issues bringing them to the current state of affairs. IBill being purchased by Penthouse did not help their public image. Now, in the national news, discussion about Ibill having contracted with Merrick bank, which, as I understand, CCBILL also uses causes me personal concern. What will CCBILL do to protect itself if they are indeed using Merrick. It my personal view, they are the last standing of quality (verotel has "pro" clients but building a contorted AVS which will be a house a cards soon to fall, bringing all down). Does CBILL have more than one bank relationship for Visa? Due to the IBill situation, I invite a statement from CCBILL and general comment.

10-13-2004, 06:32 PM	#5
Cogitator Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 672	Maybe CCBill wasn't involved in illegal activities? :-( __________________ - this space intentionally left blank -

10-13-2004, 07:45 PM	#10
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	%95 of mine comes from the us... __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

10-13-2004, 07:49 PM	#11
AMADude Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 3,875	How about we all get our own merchant accounts and say fuck them all? __________________ No sig, just here to fuck around.

10-13-2004, 08:56 PM	#14
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	Its an interesting angle you bring up and something I think all of us in the industry should pay close attention to. The best way to protect yourselves is just what AMAdude mentioned and thats getting your own merchant accounts to have as backup or to use in conjunction with an IPSP in cascading billing. HOWEVER, .. baddog is right, merchant accounts aren't for everyone! Those applying should know a few facts on what goes into consideration on approval and rates from a merchant bank: monthly volume cb ratios for the past few months per transaction amounts product or service type credit history the good news is that it's FREE to apply, so if you feel comfortable with those things listed above why not give it a shot? Another great factor is the difference between fees you pay a IPSP and those you pay for a merc account and processing , not to mention greater control over your customer base and contesting charge backs. Finally, IMHO, its always good practice for processors of any type to have a good working relationship with more than one banking entity. __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

10-13-2004, 06:09 PM	#3
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	chromium: Your comments about banking relationships may be at the heart of the problem. I'd hate to be in any business that relied on one bank, - whether contracts were in place or not. I don't know the inner workings of iBill.. so can't correctly comment, - but as a rough rule, there is, or supposed to be, a different bank to cover each banking region. Hence, if iBill are trading within Europe, they would have a banking partnership there. I does appear the main problem was with the US bank, First Data. It "may" be that the organisation of iBill was so centralised that all funds/transactions from all regions are in the one melting pot. Who knows? :-)

10-13-2004, 06:24 PM	#4
chromium Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 100	The scary part ... and why I posted is what about CCBILL? As I understand it uses one bank for VISA USA. If anything, anyone reading this board will no longer do business with iBill... so either a sudden or slow death. Why is CCBILL, which I use, protected from such a future iBill event (besides poor management of funds).

10-13-2004, 06:39 PM	#6
chromium Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 100	IBill had been a private company, wisely sold in March of 2002 before the new VISA regs. It has been sold twice.... almost a third time. Again I ask about CCBILL, as a client

10-13-2004, 07:08 PM	#8
Bomber8888 Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,444	A double BUMP.. I wanna hear this too!

10-13-2004, 10:05 PM	#19
wtfent Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: San Diego, Cali. baby!!! Posts: 3,790	I was using card service international for about a year and they were very good to me until one very bad day. Everything looked just fine, sales were at an all time high, affilaites were getting credit for sales, our prducts were being shipped out very quickly. The only problem was a big problem no money was going into our bank account. I called them to see whats up and they said my account had been terminated and my funds froze for 180 days because they no longer wish to do business with adult merchants. Three days later which was about 7 days after we noticed no money was going into our account I got a letter saying my account was terminated. I lost out on so much money that month it wasnt even funny. The thing that pissed me off the most is that they terminated our account without first notifying us. They were supposed to give us a 30 day notice but didnt. Fucked up huh. Lesson learned: ALWAYS HAVE A BACK UP!

10-14-2004, 01:05 PM	#20
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	BUMP! I'd like to see a CCBill response to this __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

10-14-2004, 02:28 PM	#22
Major (Tom) Anti Communist Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Null Posts: 29,857	yea its like sharing a room with someone who has herpes. Its not likley it will effect u, but its enough to make you wash your hands every 5 minutes... Duke __________________ My mother said, to get things done You'd better not mess with Major Tom

10-15-2004, 05:02 PM	#24
chromium Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 100	I recently saw a CCBILL welcoming a new client. I await a reply to this thread.

10-15-2004, 05:20 PM	#25
Dr. Wicks Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 419	Chromium, CCBill is a private entity and not a public company and therefore we have no shareholders to appease. Our banking relationships are very strong as well as our relationships with the card associations. All in all, we are on solid ground and will continue business as usual for a long time to come. __________________ Dr. Wicks Our Experience Payze doug at payze.com

10-15-2004, 05:36 PM	#26
chromium Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 100	thank you Dr. Wicks for your reply I have been pleased ever since moving to CCBILL. Excellent internet interface, quick resolving of problems via the telephone. I dont know if other firms like globill were public when they closed, but once IBILL was exposed as owned by Penthouse it became an issue and their future remains questionable. Thank you Dr. Wicks for your official CCBILL response, reassuring the MANY of us during this difficult period.