are free/1$ trials hurting the industry?

[Chris]

Was watching the state of the industry from 06 forum and they brought up people just doing the free trials sucking your site and canceling

what do you think we can do as an industry to help stop people like this?

Limit what you can get from trials?
Get rid of trials?

[Dagwolf]

Get rid of TGPs and free galleries first. hehe

Good luck.

[scottybuzz]

download limits would sort this out

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Dagwolf

Get rid of TGPs and free galleries first. hehe

Good luck.

Why not attempt to shut down torrent site and password trading sites first?

as far as tgp's go - i say stop 16 picture gallerys with hardcore pictures and go with 8 pictures with softcore content ;)

[scottybuzz]

because to me trials suck in those who think maybe maybe etc.......

[sweetcuties]

fuck trials! I got rid of trials on my sites in 02-03. Surfers have been milking us for yrs... time to make them pay. If you've got good content and update, you'll convert.

The same surfers bitching about this or that will pay $100 a mth in cable or $5at Starbucks. Like someone said last week, we should raise our prices... $24.95 is my highest price. Was thinking of raising my price to $29.95 for my Preg site, dunno

[fallenmuffin]

$1 Trials are a double edged sword. However I've had many $1 trials turn into 30$+ revshares within a week.

[Dirty Dane]

Better than 0. Its all about supply/demand

[Chris]

Originally Posted by fallenmuffin

$1 Trials are a double edged sword. However I've had many $1 trials turn into 30$+ revshares within a week.

wish someone had some numbers we could look at

like how they did with trials compared to without

[Hollywood376]

Originally Posted by Chris

Why not attempt to shut down torrent site and password trading sites first?

as far as tgp's go - i say stop 16 picture gallerys with hardcore pictures and go with 8 pictures with softcore content ;)

amen on both counts. I'll be the first to say that I'll cut all my hosted products to 8 softcore pics.....as soon as every gallery that exists is yanked from it's hosting and replaced with 8 image softcore galleries.

I'm afraid the cat is out of the bag, the genie out of the lamp, or whatever...and it isn't going back inside.

[fallenmuffin]

Originally Posted by Chris

wish someone had some numbers we could look at

like how they did with trials compared to without

If there is an option like with pimproll $1, $4.99, $9.99, $24.95 or whatever.. I usally do $9.99-$24.95 because I know i can convert it. But thats because i work in micro niches. If it wasn't for $1 trails the teen/pornstar/generic hardcore niches would be dead. LOL


But yes, I'd like to see some numbers.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by fallenmuffin

If there is an option like with pimproll $1, $4.99, $9.99, $24.95 or whatever.. I usally do $9.99-$24.95 because I know i can convert it. But thats because i work in micro niches. If it wasn't for $1 trails the teen/pornstar/generic hardcore niches would be dead. LOL


But yes, I'd like to see some numbers.

For me all generic niches have been dead for about a year now

but my main niche is penis enlargement and bbw niche :-/.

[fallenmuffin]

You know what pisses me off though.. $1 to access the entire network of sites. Hey pay a dollar and get access to our 47 sites :/ wtf

[Chris]

Originally Posted by fallenmuffin

You know what pisses me off though.. $1 to access the entire network of sites. Hey pay a dollar and get access to our 47 sites :/ wtf

and takes about 2 hours to download all 47 sites and about 2 more horus to have it all over the net

[MaddCaz]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Better than 0. Its all about supply/demand

[sweetcuties]

Originally Posted by fallenmuffin

You know what pisses me off though.. $1 to access the entire network of sites. Hey pay a dollar and get access to our 47 sites :/ wtf

excellent point, we're giving to much content away

[Pornwolf]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

excellent point, we're giving to much content away

I agree. The all access sites have gotten out of hand.

[jono]

Is anyone honestly winning with free/$1 trials?

We tried $5 trials & it cost us badly!

[Chris]

Originally Posted by jono

Is anyone honestly winning with free/$1 trials?

We tried $5 trials & it cost us badly!

at 5$ trials it costed you more or you saw less sign ups?

i see you gusy dont offer trials at all - i applaud you for that .. wish more would follow

[nikki99]

answer is yes

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

fuck trials! I got rid of trials on my sites in 02-03. Surfers have been milking us for yrs... time to make them pay. If you've got good content and update, you'll convert.

The same surfers bitching about this or that will pay $100 a mth in cable or $5at Starbucks. Like someone said last week, we should raise our prices... $24.95 is my highest price. Was thinking of raising my price to $29.95 for my Preg site, dunno

My lowest join is 5$ and my highest rebill is 54.99, and we get more than you would think.

[Barefootsies]

If you have good product, you should be able to reverse it. Do not do the small dollar trials, do heavy on the front end, and lower on the back. Encourage rebilling members, and hammer those who do the one month, d/l, rape and chargeback shit.

Also on the server side, disable those 'accellerators'.

I launched another new site a few months back, and had a lot of those one month people. So I changed it to the first month more, and less on rebills. Memberships did not fall off, but it did illiminate those one month mofo's.

[czarina]

I got a free sample Marie Claire magazine in the mail the other day. I read thru it, liked some articles, and upon receiving my bill in the mail, sent them the $12 for the year subscription.
yes, too much free stuff is bad, but some free content is good, very good.

[dynastoned]

Originally Posted by Chris

Why not attempt to shut down torrent site and password trading sites first?

as far as tgp's go - i say stop 16 picture gallerys with hardcore pictures and go with 8 pictures with softcore content ;)

and get rid of the free video clips also..

[jpv]

I am in the teen market and I don't use trials. There is no way I am letting someone download several hundred thousand dollars in content for 1 fucking dollar. Many people email me and ask me if they can have a trial to see the site and that is what I tell them... they sign up anyways.

My price point is $29.95 and conversions are solid using all tgp/mgp traffic.


If you need $1 trials as a sponsor it means one of 2 things...

You are desperate for affiliates who don't know shit about bottom line profits and marketing.

or

Your site can't sell without a trial as the sale point.


Don't give me that volume bullshit either. You are leaving money on the table and walking a fine line trying to use volume to upsale, cross sale, send to popups, and the other tricks you use.

My teen site sells itself with proper marketing and I would rather get affiliates who know how to market properly and look at bottom lines as a solid long term business person would. If you want to make a dollar today then you are missing millions of dollars tomorrow. Webmasters say they can't sell the teen market today. Why? Were you chasing that dollar yesterday? I am making bank in the teen market because I don't go for quick cash. AND MY SITE WAS STARTED 2 YEARS AGO!

Make a solid long term plan for this business. Stop chasing the dollar today and I am sure you will make more tomorrow.

Take away your trials and market your site properly and you will make much more money.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by jpv

I am in the teen market and I don't use trials. There is no way I am letting someone download several hundred thousand dollars in content for 1 fucking dollar. Many people email me and ask me if they can have a trial to see the site and that is what I tell them... they sign up anyways.

My price point is $29.95 and conversions are solid using all tgp/mgp traffic.


If you need $1 trials as a sponsor it means one of 2 things...

You are desperate for affiliates who don't know shit about bottom line profits and marketing.

or

Your site can't sell without a trial as the sale point.


Don't give me that volume bullshit either. You are leaving money on the table and walking a fine line trying to use volume to upsale, cross sale, send to popups, and the other tricks you use.

My teen site sells itself with proper marketing and I would rather get affiliates who know how to market properly and look at bottom lines as a solid long term business person would. If you want to make a dollar today then you are missing millions of dollars tomorrow. Webmasters say they can't sell the teen market today. Why? Were you chasing that dollar yesterday? I am making bank in the teen market because I don't go for quick cash. AND MY SITE WAS STARTED 2 YEARS AGO!

Make a solid long term plan for this business. Stop chasing the dollar today and I am sure you will make more tomorrow.

Take away your trials and market your site properly and you will make much more money.

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by Chris

as far as tgp's go - i say stop 16 picture gallerys with hardcore pictures and go with 8 pictures with softcore content ;)

it would be nice if more sponsors would offer fhg's like that. they sell much better the former

[he-fox]

1$ trials should allow only LIMITED ACCESS to member area. 2-3 scenes, nothing more. It's a TRIAL, for gawd sake. Who likes it, buys it. Giving away all the content for 1 buck is insane. Especially nowadays, with broadband spreading worldwide. I also bet that the most of the stuff that fills the torrent sites it's downloaded on trial periods.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

I agree. The all access sites have gotten out of hand.

hmm does tcg pay you for your sig or do you support em?
if you support em - mebbe its time to practice what you preach bro

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[Chris]

Originally Posted by he-fox

1$ trials should allow only LIMITED ACCESS to member area. 2-3 scenes, nothing more. It's a TRIAL, for gawd sake. Who likes it, buys it. Giving away all the content for 1 buck is insane. Especially nowadays, with broadband spreading worldwide. I also bet that the most of the stuff that fills the torrent sites it's downloaded on trial periods.

those sponsors who are offering the trials tho are giving away hardcore on the tour so they are getting more than 2-3 scnes in a few tour pages

Minimal free content is what has always sold best for me

no pink until you gimmie a CC to charge

[Pornwolf]

Originally Posted by Chris

hmm does tcg pay you for your sig or do you support em?
if you support em - mebbe its time to practice what you preach bro



from tcg join pages

Heh, it's a double edged sword. Of the big sponsors their conversions consistantly outrank the rest for me at least.

I would like to see them and all the others stop that all access stuff though. No doubt about it.

[NoCarrier]

Originally Posted by Chris

Why not attempt to shut down torrent site and password trading sites first?

as far as tgp's go - i say stop 16 picture gallerys with hardcore pictures and go with 8 pictures with softcore content ;)

Been there. Done that. 8 pics? Last time with "TGP 2" it was 5 pics. Who fucking cares. Millions of TGP galleries.. What difference will it make?

Millions of credit card owners are jerking off to the 10-20 secs movie previews.

You want the porn? Pay for it.

Make it SOFTCORE. Blur the movies, images and thumbnails..

Welcome to BUSINESS 101..

I almost want to kill the dumbasses giving away free porn and galleries on their PPC campaigns. IDIOTS!

[Pornwolf]

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

I almost want to kill the dumbasses giving away free porn and galleries on their PPC campaigns. IDIOTS!

Wow, now that is top of the line stupidity right there. What kind of idiot does that?

[NoCarrier]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Wow, now that is top of the line stupidity right there. What kind of idiot does that?

Trust me, I've seen it.. They don't last long but those morons always come back.

[CoinsCuties]

If you have high-quality "Original" sites and not "cookie-cutter", then you have a FAR better chance of making it all work...have u noticed that the guys giving away access for a buck, hardly have their own copyrighted original content...

[hoob]

It would be interesting to know if any site has done a free/$1 trial based on d/L instead of time.

Example for your $1 you get 200Mb instead of you get 3 days etc.

Or for your trial you get access to a portion of the site (like was mentioned above)

of course I'm a noob and maybe talking out my ass?

[Mr. Romance]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

fuck trials! I got rid of trials on my sites in 02-03. Surfers have been milking us for yrs... time to make them pay. If you've got good content and update, you'll convert.

The same surfers bitching about this or that will pay $100 a mth in cable or $5at Starbucks. Like someone said last week, we should raise our prices... $24.95 is my highest price. Was thinking of raising my price to $29.95 for my Preg site, dunno

all good points..

Mr. Romance

[Pete-KT]

Set a limited trial members area, im thinking about doing that with our sites

[BIGTYMER]

A few sponsors I know offer limited access trials. It is a great biz model.

[Corona]

What is with the trials where if you like the site and stick around you get charged $40/month instead of $25/month if you joined without the trial?

Are they not just training the surfer to take the trial and run?

Maybe I'm just a cheap ass but when I got my CC bill and find out that I got charged 60% more for nothing I would not stick around any longer.

[biftek]

need to become smarter and wiser at marketing and business
need to find out what the consumer wants , what makes them tick
market research
it's just like any other business , you are always going to have competition , you just need to rise above it all

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by Dagwolf

Get rid of TGPs and free galleries first. hehe

Good luck.

[Pornwolf]

Originally Posted by Corona

Are they not just training the surfer to take the trial and run?

Maybe I'm just a cheap ass but when I got my CC bill and find out that I got charged 60% more for nothing I would not stick around any longer.

That's not the point or the purpose. People like to deny it but this industry is built on people who FORGET to cancel. Trials or no trials. Without people that forget to cancel this biz would make 20% of what it currently makes.

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

IMO both cheap trials and free content hurt the chances of someone paying for a site membership. Theres no point getting into torrent and sharing/hacking forums because its obvious they have an effect.

I do a more expensive trial $12.95 for 5 days limited to 500MB per day. In fact every member who joins my site only gets 500MB a day. If they go over that they're likely using a download manager and can wait the 24hrs i block the password until they get access again.

An easy way to look at the problem regarding how much content a member can access whilst on trial is to install a content manager program. this way you can set two membership prices and limit how much content the trial sees - all the thumbs download in your members area but they would only have access to say the first 15 of each photoset or whatever you set it at - same with video.

I do about 1 tgp every 3 months and give hardly any content away at all - i simply market by getting my name out there via toplists (and a few other methods that ill keep under my hat) and keeping content exclusive and frequently updated. Of course Im in a niche which makes things easier but when someone finds me and they cant find site pics hardly anywhere online for free - they join.

[nico-t]

For me the big sponsors with cheap trials convert like shit.
The small ones i use including small ccbill sponsors convert good who only have the $25-$30 membership option for surfers. Hmm how could this be?

[sweetcuties]

Originally Posted by ultimatebbwdotcom

IMO both cheap trials and free content hurt the chances of someone paying for a site membership. Theres no point getting into torrent and sharing/hacking forums because its obvious they have an effect.

I do a more expensive trial $12.95 for 5 days limited to 500MB per day. In fact every member who joins my site only gets 500MB a day. If they go over that they're likely using a download manager and can wait the 24hrs i block the password until they get access again.

An easy way to look at the problem regarding how much content a member can access whilst on trial is to install a content manager program. this way you can set two membership prices and limit how much content the trial sees - all the thumbs download in your members area but they would only have access to say the first 15 of each photoset or whatever you set it at - same with video.

I do about 1 tgp every 3 months and give hardly any content away at all - i simply market by getting my name out there via toplists (and a few other methods that ill keep under my hat) and keeping content exclusive and frequently updated. Of course Im in a niche which makes things easier but when someone finds me and they cant find site pics hardly anywhere online for free - they join.

Nice post man, just saw your site... I almost joined

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

Nice post man, just saw your site... I almost joined

Sweeet, i almost went and spent the money too *wink*

[Dollarmansteve]

Originally Posted by jpv

If you need $1 trials as a sponsor it means one of 2 things...

You are desperate for affiliates who don't know shit about bottom line profits and marketing.

or

Your site can't sell without a trial as the sale point.

Take away your trials and market your site properly and you will make much more money.

i strongly disagree with these statements.

[jpv]

I don't post often but when I do... I do...

Dollarmansteve, don't take the first statement out of context. The statement after I said programs leave money on the table just to get volume to upsale, cross sale, send to popups, and the other tricks. It is more profitable if programs concentrate on making a solid product with no tricks. They will draw large affiliates who will also make more money in the long run.

Look at karups, atk, twistys, and other similar sites. They are still going strong with the same layouts they have used for years. Why? Because people are not affraid to see their sites. People LIKE their sites. People recognize them. Do you wonder why pay per trial programs need to keep changing thier layout so damn much? Because after people start to recognize the sites they hit the back button right away. They are trying not to see the pop ups. Trial sites need to keep fresh layouts to trick the surfer that he is safe to click deeper into the site and not to fear popups. Now people have popup blockers... good thing there are cross sales. Can't you see pay per trial is digging a hole for all of us? It is harder to convert now because people don't trust membership sites. Maybe that is why review sites are doing so well now. They are trying to get that trust back.

Why fuck a potential customer? If they don't buy now they might buy later when they realize you do have a good product they would like to see. Once they do join they will come back and join many times in a year and over many years. They do at my site and this is how the sites I mentioned above do so well and make so much profits. They are not plastered everywhere to make such great money either.

I have talked to some affiliates of pay per trial... large affiliates... who can't seem to figure why their SALES have dropped over the years. Honestly it could be many reasons... maybe the affiliates themselves... but I do believe most pay per trial programs are digging their own grave.

Keep in mind I think limited trials are a good idea IF IF IF done right. Don't fool the customer... trust me people are stupid. This needs to be done carefully, in a very simple way, and very very clearly.

My main complaint is the pay per signup programs who use cross sales, pop ups, and a cheap trial going to a very high monthly price just to maintain profits. I don't agree with this business model. I think it creates lots of problems but it attracts the affiliates who don't know how to look at bottom lines. They only look at the conversion ratios which don't mean a damn thing on their own. Unfortunately many large affiliates started with programs like this many years ago and stick with them out of loyalty and fear of changing what has made them alot of money. Which is sad. If these affiliates are such great marketers they would make so much more with other business models which don't fuck the future of this business. I used pay per trial programs and made a killing but I moved on and changed my entire business model because I saw more future profits with recurring. It paid off and is still paying off.

This is a great business. Why fuck up the future any more than it is now? There is so much money to be made the honest way without the tricks. Shap is doing it, KarupsLou is doing it, Quiet has done it, I am, and many others. I would rather be in this group of names.

THEY GAVE THE CUSTOMER WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTED AND IT PAID OFF HUGE FOR THEM.



As for my second statement... If you have a site with trials... remove them and lets see if your site can sell without a trial as the sale point.