Is John McCain eligible for the Presidency?

[NKYKev]

Not according to the US Department of State, at least. McCain was born on a US military base in Panama. Here is the language from their web site:
" c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth. "

As made clear under 7 FAM 1111.2, birth by US citizens confers citizenship by statute; only birth in the US confers citizenship through the US Constitution. So, if birth overseas, even in a US military base, does not qualify to grant citizenship by birth under the 14th Amendment, can McCain be a "natural born citizen" under Article 2 of the Constitution? Here is a link to the article on the Department of State's site. Look for section 7 FAM 1116.1-4 (c).

[gornyhuy]

If I was a soldier and I was told that my children born on our bases (while I am serving the country abroad and risking my life) are not eligible to be president because of that.... well I'm going permanently awol.

[GatorB]

That's stupid. If your parents are American then you are an American no matter where you are born. At least that's how it should be. If a French couple is here on vacation and she has a baby, sorry that kid is French not American. At least to those that follow LOGIC.

[D]

That sounds a bit jacked.

His parents were both serving? Fuck that noise.

[comeplay]

where ever the birth certificate is issued is where you are a citzen of. why do you think there is so many legal mexicans in the united states?

[NKYKev]

While I think it is horrible that someone could be disqualified from being President because a parent was serving the US overseas at the time, that is exactly what the law seems to be saying here. From the same article:

(1) Jus soli (the law of the soil), a rule of common law under which the place of a person?s birth determines citizenship. In addition to common law, this principle is embodied in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the various U.S. citizenship and nationality statutes.
(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline ), a concept of Roman or civil law under which a person?s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This rule, frequently called ?citizenship by descent? or ?derivative citizenship?, is not embodied in the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As laws have changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also changed.

While McCain is clearly a US citizen by statute, by not being born here, he apparently is not by birth - which is what the US Constitution requires to be President. For the children of illegal immigrants to be ciitizens just by being born here, while the children of veterans serving overseas might be disqualified from being President - that certainly justifies amending the Constitution in my view.

[who]

It just means he's not american by reason of birth. He is american by reason of heritage though.

[NKYKev]

Originally Posted by who

It just means he's not american by reason of birth. He is american by reason of heritage though.

If he is not an American by reason of birth, then he is barred by the US Constitution from being President. There is no doubt he is a US citizen, but the key seems to be birth inside the US - and military bases abroad don't seem to count.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by GatorB

That's stupid. If your parents are American then you are an American no matter where you are born. At least that's how it should be. If a French couple is here on vacation and she has a baby, sorry that kid is French not American. At least to those that follow LOGIC.

wrong ... and wrong again .... ( A mexican has a child in the US, he is a US citizen ).

On the topic tough, a child of US military on duty on a base should be American ... but they probably go by the fact that it is not like an embassy, which is considered the land of the flag floating on it ...

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

wrong ... and wrong again .... ( A mexican has a child in the US, he is a US citizen ).

WTF is up with the WRONG shit? I was stating my OPINION. I know what the rules are. I am disagreeing with them you fucking retard. Learn how to read.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by GatorB

WTF is up with the WRONG shit? I was stating my OPINION. I know what the rules are. I am disagreeing with them you fucking retard. Learn how to read.

Originally Posted by GatorB

That's stupid. If your parents are American then you are an American no matter where you are born.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

He isn't very smart. That has been proven numerous times.

[notoldschool]

Its funny how people think that because they believe it should be, then it is law. If those are the laws on the books then he should not be eligible. Everyone thinks they can have it both ways when it comes to what they feel should be right. LOL.

[borked]

Originally Posted by GatorB

That's stupid. If your parents are American then you are an American no matter where you are born. At least that's how it should be. If a French couple is here on vacation and she has a baby, sorry that kid is French not American. At least to those that follow LOGIC.

haha, that's not quite logical, cos if that were true, you Americans wouldn't be, well American....

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Are you retarded to. I was stating how I feel about things. God I swear some of you argue just to argue. Quit quoting me like you know what I meant I think that I as in ME would know what I was trying to say. Go back to 3rd grade and learn how to read.

[D]

Seems this is has been a subject of debate.

Remember the language in the constitution states "Natural-Born citizen" - which is subject to interpretation.

It would seem that the executive has made their claim on what defines "Natural-Born," but - it's not ultimately their decision... it's the courts'. I'm curious as to how this is going to play out, and how it will impact the Republican nomination.

Three major candidates have sought the Presidency who were born outside the United States: Barry Goldwater (ran in 1964) was born in Arizona while it was still a U.S. territory, George Romney (ran in 1968) was born in Mexico to U.S. parents, and John McCain (ran in 2000 and running in 2008) was born in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Barry Goldwater's case among these three is unique in that although Arizona was not a state, it was a fully incorporated territory of the United States, making it debatable whether or not he was born "outside" the United States. The Panama Canal Zone was under United States sovereignty between 1903 and 1979.[7] Neither Goldwater nor Romney was elected, so it has never been fully addressed whether children born to Americans overseas are "natural-born citizens" and thus eligible for the Presidency. However, McCain is currently seeking the 2008 Republican nomination for President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

[CosmicTang]

If you are born to an American parent, you're American, no matter where you were born. That's why McCain is eligible.

If two French people were here on vacation and had their kid (which they likely wouldn't be because you can't fly that late into a pregnancy) he/she would likely have dual citizenship.

[Steve Awesome]

This is all a master plan to get the 14th amendment tossed out so Arnold can be McCaine's running mate.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by baddog

He isn't very smart. That has been proven numerous times.

Fuck off asshole. How how stupid are you? You're a fucktard. You know what I meant.

[cherrylula]

oh no! You'd better call his campaign manager and let them know, quick!

[D]

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

If you are born to an American parent, you're American, no matter where you were born. That's why McCain is eligible.

If two French people were here on vacation and had their kid (which they likely wouldn't be because you can't fly that late into a pregnancy) he/she would likely have dual citizenship.

Citizenship != eligibility to be President. "Natural-born citizen," at least 35 years of age, and 14 years a resident of the U.S. = eligibility to be president.

Originally Posted by Steve Awesome

This is all a master plan to get the 14th amendment tossed out so Arnold can be McCaine's running mate.

It'd actually have to be an amendment to override Article II, Section 1 of the main body of the U.S. Constitution. The 14th amendment only greater clarifies what determines certain modes of citizenship.

I wouldn't put it past the Republican party that this is all part of that game, though... since it is the executive, in a decidedly partisan cabinet, that is tossing the first ball here.

[D]

Originally Posted by Steve Awesome

This is all a master plan to get the 14th amendment tossed out so Arnold can be McCaine's running mate.

Originally Posted by D

It'd actually have to be an amendment to override Article II, Section 1 of the main body of the U.S. Constitution. The 14th amendment only greater clarifies what determines certain modes of citizenship.

Clarification... you said "running mate" - Vice President... which would make it the jurisdiction of the 12th Amendment, which states that one must meet the Constitutional qualifications to be elected President, as outlined in Article II, Section 1, to be elected Vice President....

but amending the 12th amendment wouldn't do much for McCain's case at all - while Amending Article I, Section 2 would possibly solve for both... hence my previous statement.

[NKYKev]

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

If you are born to an American parent, you're American, no matter where you were born. That's why McCain is eligible.

If two French people were here on vacation and had their kid (which they likely wouldn't be because you can't fly that late into a pregnancy) he/she would likely have dual citizenship.

As to part one:
c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.

Once again, such citizenship is by statute - not by birth, which is what is required under the 14th Amendment. If the 14th Amendment applies to Article 2, he is ineligible - but that will have to be decided by the courts. It is only being brought up now because it is clear he is going to win the nomination - and it is being brought up by other Republicans, actually.

As to part two:
(1) Jus soli (the law of the soil), a rule of common law under which the place of a person?s birth determines citizenship. In addition to common law, this principle is embodied in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the various U.S. citizenship and nationality statutes.
(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline ), a concept of Roman or civil law under which a person?s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This rule, frequently called ?citizenship by descent? or ?derivative citizenship?, is not embodied in the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As laws have changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also
changed.

The very fact that birth within the US is the key under the 14th Amendment is why US citizens having babies abroad have to have statutes making the babies citizens, while babies of illegals here automatically become citizens. Just being a citizen is not enough to be President; it is a "natural born" citizen - and if the 14th Amendment applies to that clause from Article 2 of our Constitution, it is a big issue.