Revshare and Cross Sales???

[cybermike]

Do you think its fair to have cross sales on a revshare only ccbill program that you don't credit for..

Then add to the fact its a shitty prechecked cross sale to a 12clicks site


Revshare used to stand for something..

[commonsense]

Yeah it's fucked. It's a given that PPS sponsors do it but in revshare it's fucked up if they just add it and don't announce it. Who's doing it?

[spacedog]

Cross sales shouldn't exist in revshare.. Incredible dollars does double prechecked cross sells..

[cybermike]

I really dont want to give the program any spotlights..

[Fetish Videos]

This is the major reason webmasters MUST check out the member areas of revshare programs before sending traffic. If you are sending traffic via revshare and haven't been inside the member area on some programs, you might be surprised..

[Nicky]

IMO revshare sponsors should not be selling pre-checked x-sales without giving the webmaster 50% comission on them etc. Better yet is if they don't do it at all.

[Dollarmansteve]

I don't think any program that offers revshare ever implies that the revshare %age appiles to anything other than the membership fees.

There are hundreds of affiliate programs, and I'm sure there are plenty of "clean" revshare programs. Ultimately, the program can do whatever they want and 99.9% of programs are completely transparent with their revshare T&C.

[chompers]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

I don't think any program that offers revshare ever implies that the revshare %age appiles to anything other than the membership fees.

There are hundreds of affiliate programs, and I'm sure there are plenty of "clean" revshare programs. Ultimately, the program can do whatever they want and 99.9% of programs are completely transparent with their revshare T&C.

Well said Steve.

If you aren't happy take your business elsewhere. If the sponsor makes you good money shut up and be happy about it.

Here is the way I see it. In 95% of the cases the programs that make affiliates the most money are the ones that are the most aggressive. Those programs usually have their shit together and have big bank rolls. Affiliates need their business more than the programs need affiliates. Do you think Brazzers or hahaha would be hurt if affiliates stopped promoting them? Hell no. They are generating so many sales in other areas affiliates are a nice bonus that helps bring the CB rate down a little.

[d-null]

post the program

[chompers]

Originally Posted by jetjet

post the program

The program? You are an idiot. Most big revshare programs have this. Ns, Brain, Jugg, Bang, Nasty, hahaha. The list goes on and on. Take your head out of your ass and be happy they let you promote them. Try to find one mainstream company that pays 60% of revenues as a commission.

Seriously be happy these guys let you promote them because none of them need you as an affiliate.

[spacedog]

I see it this way,

If a revshare program needs to resort to cross sells, then that tells me that their retention sucks. If they had retention, then they wouldn't need to cross sell.

[chompers]

Originally Posted by spacedog

I see it this way,

If a revshare program needs to resort to cross sells, then that tells me that their retention sucks. If they had retention, then they wouldn't need to cross sell.

Sorry but you really don't get our business. So if a website retains they should leave money on the table because their website retains? Whether a site retains or not has nothing to do with a companies decision to add cross sells.

[Tom_PM]

Whats the difference?

What I mean is, whether the program pays you rev. or pps, they're still needing to retain that member exactly the same. So if you use PPS you're settling for one payout, while if you use rev., you're getting a share of every rebill. In either case, the cross sale(s) are irrelevant.

Surfer doesnt give a blip if an affiliate might make $3 or $500 or how they're paid or whatever. PPS/Rev. Zero difference.

And honestly, everyone should look at it that way. How much are you spending to get a member and what is your profit percentage?

[spacedog]

Originally Posted by chompers

Sorry but you really don't get our business. So if a website retains they should leave money on the table because their website retains? Whether a site retains or not has nothing to do with a companies decision to add cross sells.

My stats show that many of these sites with the numerous prechecked cross sells have the worst retention... You're talking bullshit when you suggest that a program does not resort to cross sells if retention is poor.

I have sites where I sent members and no cross sells exist and they retain 3 months, 6 months, a year, whatever while on the other hand I have these big name programs with giant networks with multiple cross sells never converting beyond trial or not staying more than initial monthly and even numerous chargebacks.

Cross sells prechecked or not are a given with any pps but I believe they are a potential sign of poor rebills if seen on a revshare site... I also feel that these prechecked cross sells are the cause and reaons for poor retention due to the possibility of the member being pissed off as a result.

[Karupted Charles]

We waited to offer cross sales till we could pay affiliates. We now offer the same 60% you make on new sales to any cross sales generated on your affiliate ID.

[commonsense]

I love the guys that ride into threads like this and try and justify it. You really just don't give a shit about your traffic, as most affiliates don't. Then crying over lowered ratios and money and keep sending their surfers to the same programs that fuck their new customers over and over again.


Most affiliates do not give a fuck about customers returning through them for a purchase, or for fuck all even understand that concept.


Jackass

[commonsense]

better yet the programs coming in here doing it and say "yeah it's all good, nothing to worry about!"

[cykoe6]

If I am getting PPS then the program can do whatever the fuck they want with hidden pre-checked cross sales or whatever else they want to do. If it is revshare then there is no excuse for that crap unless the affiliate is getting a percentage as well. Why is it that so many sponsors nowadays cannot understand simple industry terms like "revshare" and "lifetime"?

[Dollarmansteve]

Originally Posted by commonsense

I love the guys that ride into threads like this and try and justify it. You really just don't give a shit about your traffic, as most affiliates don't. Then crying over lowered ratios and money and keep sending their surfers to the same programs that fuck their new customers over and over again.


Most affiliates do not give a fuck about customers returning through them for a purchase, or for fuck all even understand that concept.


Jackass

It's a fallacy to believe that a stadard cross-sell "fucks over" a surfer. How do I know for a fact that it's a fallacy? Because for a given program anywhere from 65% - 85% (ie the majority) or members UNCHECK any pre-checked x-sells, and 10 - 30% of members CHECK unchecked x-sells. What does this mean? It's means that

a) surfers can read
b) surfers are capable of making their own decisions of how they spend their money

How else do I know? I know because most processors have stringent credit and chargeback thresholds that must be maintained. Do you know how easy it is to lose a merchant account of you are too agressive?

There is alot of good information available on GFY, but there is also a MOUNTAIN of uninformed mis-information and blatant lies and fallacy.

In a competitve market like this, the webmaster is ultimately empowered by choice. No affiliate is ever forced into promoting any program nor is it the right of a small number of "activist" webmasters who may promote a certain program to demand a change, since as stated earlier, 99.9% of programs are crystal clear with their terms and conditions as it applies to revshare.

As a webmaster, you can freely choose to promote a revshare program that is free of cross sells, and as Charles from Karups pointed out, there are revshare programs that are setup to PAY on cross sells. I even bet that alot of programs could provide a xsell-free transaction page for someone who asked. At the end of the day, sponsor programs are not reponsible for the due dilligence of the affiliate. Any webmaster who promotes sites on a revshare and who is concerned about xsells, would simple have to ask the program and they would be told what the policy is.

[SCORE Ralph]

Originally Posted by Karupted Charles

We waited to offer cross sales till we could pay affiliates. We now offer the same 60% you make on new sales to any cross sales generated on your affiliate ID.

This is exactly what we did with all the processors on our cascade. We worked with TMM/NATS to get credit for those billers who were not yet equpped to give credit for cross sales. We currently give credit and only have cross sales on Jettis, Netbilling, CCBill, and Epoch sales. Since all our cross sales are to other sites in our network we can pay the standard revshare without having to worry about paying third parties and all cross sales are displayed on your stats.

[cybermike]

Originally Posted by aspwm

This is exactly what we did with all the processors on our cascade. We worked with TMM/NATS to get credit for those billers who were not yet equpped to give credit for cross sales. We currently give credit and only have cross sales on Jettis, Netbilling, CCBill, and Epoch sales. Since all our cross sales are to other sites in our network we can pay the standard revshare without having to worry about paying third parties and all cross sales are displayed on your stats.

So is it possible for nats sponsors to give credit for cross sales? I got one nats sponsor telling me it isnt so..

[GetSCORECash]

Originally Posted by cybermike

So is it possible for nats sponsors to give credit for cross sales? I got one nats sponsor telling me it isnt so..

Yes it is. It's a lot of work. It's not just Nats' but the billers, that have to be combined.

I'm currently running a promotion on TitsAndTugs.com and here is the Thread.
http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=841832

Secondly take a look at scoreland.com on my sig, which is our main site and is setup for cross sales to our own network of sites.

[Penny24Seven]

I love these threads.

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

It's a fallacy to believe that a stadard cross-sell "fucks over" a surfer. How do I know for a fact that it's a fallacy? Because for a given program anywhere from 65% - 85% (ie the majority) or members UNCHECK any pre-checked x-sells, and 10 - 30% of members CHECK unchecked x-sells. What does this mean? It's means that

a) surfers can read
b) surfers are capable of making their own decisions of how they spend their money

How else do I know? I know because most processors have stringent credit and chargeback thresholds that must be maintained. Do you know how easy it is to lose a merchant account of you are too agressive?

There is alot of good information available on GFY, but there is also a MOUNTAIN of uninformed mis-information and blatant lies and fallacy.

In a competitve market like this, the webmaster is ultimately empowered by choice. No affiliate is ever forced into promoting any program nor is it the right of a small number of "activist" webmasters who may promote a certain program to demand a change, since as stated earlier, 99.9% of programs are crystal clear with their terms and conditions as it applies to revshare.

As a webmaster, you can freely choose to promote a revshare program that is free of cross sells, and as Charles from Karups pointed out, there are revshare programs that are setup to PAY on cross sells. I even bet that alot of programs could provide a xsell-free transaction page for someone who asked. At the end of the day, sponsor programs are not reponsible for the due dilligence of the affiliate. Any webmaster who promotes sites on a revshare and who is concerned about xsells, would simple have to ask the program and they would be told what the policy is.

Prechecked hidden cross sales are as shady as it fucking gets. And the only reason it's done is because you can't just bill that member 2-3x. If that was even a possibility, all the prechecked guys would just go back to the old days. You are milking paying members through fraud and chasing them away from future adult purchases online. Your customer base WILL disappear and no longer buy your products, and others will fall with you.


If you think the % that leave the cross sale do it because they really want those FANTASTIC sites and content offered, you are out of your fucking mind. You and I both know that's a bunch of bullshit, driven by profit at ANY cost. But what do you care, if it fails you'll just rebrand the same content and a "new" program.


What's even worse is seeing programs with decent sites add cross sales out of desperation, since their market share continues to shrink. Just part of the downward spiral of criminals in this "business."


But don't for a second pretend that you or anyone with shitty sites and content are providing a "service" to their members by adding deceptive cross sales to cloned members areas and non related products.



Back to the thread at hand, for a Rev share program to just add cross sales of any kind without notice is bullshit. If they feel they need to add them for their survival, fine. But I also need to think about my survival and where I am send members.

[12clicks]

its entertaining reading these threads.

[12clicks]

I can only imagine the genius involved in the decision to put the word "poop" in your sig

[jscott]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I can only imagine the genius involved in the decision to put the word "poop" in your sig

you calling his concerns (OUR concerns) unjust and then insulting him? wtf man, thought you were bigger than that man, minus points for you...... but then why would you care, you are blinging off those pre-checkeds anyways right?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by jscott

you calling his concerns (OUR concerns) unjust and then insulting him? wtf man, thought you were bigger than that man, minus points for you...... but then why would you care, you are blinging off those pre-checkeds anyways right?

I didn't insult him.
And yes, your concerns are off base.
Here's a clue for the utterly clueless.
If you're a revshare webmaster with a good bit of rebills, its in your best interest to have them not go under. Unreasonable demands from webmasters were tolerated when times were good. Now things are tight and made worse because of affiliates' unreasonable demands. So go on handcuffing the company managing your rebills from making extra money in a bad market. I'm sure in the end, you'll get just what you deserve.

Minus points for you for showing yourself a lot less intelligent than I gave you credit for.

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I didn't insult him.
And yes, your concerns are off base.
Here's a clue for the utterly clueless.
If you're a revshare webmaster with a good bit of rebills, its in your best interest to have them not go under. Unreasonable demands from webmasters were tolerated when times were good. Now things are tight and made worse because of affiliates' unreasonable demands. So go on handcuffing the company managing your rebills from making extra money in a bad market. I'm sure in the end, you'll get just what you deserve.

Minus points for you for showing yourself a lot less intelligent than I gave you credit for.

Those cross sales are going to help make times better how? If a site can't make it's standard operating costs, a couple of extra cross sales will do nothing to salvage the site, especially in the long haul.


But they will help YOU in the short term, preying upon the desperation of unsavvy sole proprietors and their customers.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by commonsense

Those cross sales are going to help make times better how? If a site can't make it's standard operating costs, a couple of extra cross sales will do nothing to salvage the site, especially in the long haul.


But they will help YOU in the short term, preying upon the desperation of unsavvy sole proprietors and their customers.

I'm sure you're right.
I mean with your vast experience in running programs and all.......

[jscott]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I didn't insult him.
And yes, your concerns are off base.
Here's a clue for the utterly clueless.
If you're a revshare webmaster with a good bit of rebills, its in your best interest to have them not go under. Unreasonable demands from webmasters were tolerated when times were good. Now things are tight and made worse because of affiliates' unreasonable demands. So go on handcuffing the company managing your rebills from making extra money in a bad market. I'm sure in the end, you'll get just what you deserve.

Minus points for you for showing yourself a lot less intelligent than I gave you credit for.

Dude c'mon, take yourself out of your shoes and put yourself in an unbiased point of view for this topic, just for a minute, it's right there in front of your face and you know it, it's not fair to affiliates, not fair to customers

I dont want any bad blood here though, I'm not aiming for a stupid GFY fight..... but it'd be nice if affiliates and sponsors can meet in the middle somewhere so everyone can benefit fairly

[SCORE Ralph]

Originally Posted by cybermike

So is it possible for nats sponsors to give credit for cross sales? I got one nats sponsor telling me it isnt so..

Yes, its doable. Tell that sponsor to get TMM on it.

We have our cross-sales going to a separate program so that you can see signups and rebills as a "Cross Sale" in your stats and not mixed in with regular signups.