Jesus christ, denials denials denials. - GoFuckYourself.com

tical · 05-25-2010, 10:25 PM

Seriously? Shady billing practices have adult flagged up the ass. This is just pathetic.

From an associates site that I sent some traffic to (Epoch): 750 join page hits, 1 sale, 7 denials. Approval rate of %12.5.

tical · 05-25-2010, 10:26 PM

I'm assuming this is also an issue when converting trials to full memberships?

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tical

Seriously? Shady billing practices have adult flagged up the ass. This is just pathetic.

From an associates site that I sent some traffic to (Epoch): 750 join page hits, 1 sale, 7 denials. Approval rate of %12.5.

How do you know those weren't stolen cards, or cards over their limit?

Your making an assumption there that isn't necessarily so. Mainstream does FAR more aggressive billing than adult ever has. If your theory was right then they would be the ones getting destroyed by declines (and hell, maybe they are).

Yanks_Todd · 05-25-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

How do you know those weren't stolen cards, or cards over their limit?

Your making an assumption there that isn't necessarily so. Mainstream does FAR more aggressive billing than adult ever has. If your theory was right then they would be the ones getting destroyed by declines (and hell, maybe they are).

I believe that there have been many companies, some just, "cough...retired" that really have pushed the limits in regards to aggressive billing.

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

I believe that there have been many companies, some just, "cough...retired" that really have pushed the limits in regards to aggressive billing.

Not even close to what happens in non-adult every day. Adult stuff has been over-dramatized here on good ol' GFY. But mainstream makes us all look like choirboys when it comes to billing practices.

tical · 05-25-2010, 10:50 PM

True, I suppose this particular instance could be a fluke. I don't do any billing in the mainstream arena, so I have no frame of reference.

I, myself, have been declined to adult websites using perfectly valid credit cards in the past. It just seems that scrubbing is a bit harsher these days. A friend of mine even received a phone call from Chase after attempting to sign up to a site, they suggested he get a new card issued to him. That is just nuts! How many banks outright block all adult sites right off the bat these days?

I know there are reasons for scrubbing, and I'm sure they help a lot. I rarely sign up for adult websites, and out of the handful of times that I have, my legitimate cards (with plenty of funds) have been declined at least 40% of the time.

Have you noticed an increase in initial transaction denials over the last few months (with any of your processors)?

Yanks_Todd · 05-25-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Not even close to what happens in non-adult every day. Adult stuff has been over-dramatized here on good ol' GFY. But mainstream makes us all look like choirboys when it comes to billing practices.

ummm, well it is 2010 and I have bought plenty of mainstream stuff.

Personally I have never had my card banged for $140-$200 when I set out on getting some shoes or face lotion. I have however had my card banged for that amount as a program owner testing another program as an surfer. And these where absolutely top tier programs.

If you are saying there are some mainstream companies that do, well of course, no shit. However if you took the top 10% (on any metric) of adult vs. the top 10% of mainstream on the same metric,we take the cake for taking advantage of people. You would really argue that

Yanks_Todd · 05-25-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Not even close to what happens in non-adult every day. Adult stuff has been over-dramatized here on good ol' GFY. But mainstream makes us all look like choirboys when it comes to billing practices.

I don't push the program in question either, so I have no opinion there, I just am responding to your statement

Robbie · 05-25-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

ummm, well it is 2010 and I have bought plenty of mainstream stuff.

Personally I have never had my card banged for $140-$200 when I set out on getting some shoes or face lotion. I have however had my card banged for that amount as a program owner testing another program as an surfer. And these where absolutely top tier programs.

If you are saying there are some mainstream companies that do, well of course, no shit. However if you took the top 10% (on any metric) of adult vs. the top 10% of mainstream on the same metric,we take the cake for taking advantage of people. You would really argue that

That's because mainstream doesn't have to use the same methods as adult. And I'm not referring to whatever "card banging" might mean to you...if you mean a prechecked x-sell that a surfer can see and uncheck and even if they do miss it they can always get their money back or chargeback...then that is not a "card bang"
That's just a x-sell which has been going on for over a decade in both adult and mainstream.

Mainstream does much worse than just x-sell. And if you leave online and go out into the "real" world around you, they rape you for a lot more than $100 all the time every day.

You can start by going over your phone bill. Or next time you check into a hotel. Or the biggie...buy a car. They will "Bang" you for thousands on that one.

Anyway, that's just one way that mainstream "bangs" you. They just put it in the fine print and then openly charge your ass for it in the end whether you like it or not. And you can't get your money back on those charges.

And the online mainstream guys have some other tricks that they get away with too.

It's all called "business" and it's been going on since the first caveman sold another caveman a stick to make fire and then added on a bunch of surcharges and x-sold him two rocks to rub together. lol

EDIT: I'm just discussing this with you by the way, and I'm not denying that plenty of folks have done what some call "shady" billing. And some have downright REALLY card banged (as in just charging up on a customers card). But that is pretty damn rare.

My real point was this...sending 750 hits to a join page and seeing one signup and 7 declines is dis-heartening. But the chances of it having anything to do with "shady billing" by people with merchant accounts and it affecting an Epoch sale are very slim. More than likely Epoch just scrubs pretty hard and saw something they didn't like on those 7 attempts.

LoveSandra · 05-26-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That's because mainstream doesn't have to use the same methods as adult. And I'm not referring to whatever "card banging" might mean to you...if you mean a prechecked x-sell that a surfer can see and uncheck and even if they do miss it they can always get their money back or chargeback...then that is not a "card bang"
That's just a x-sell which has been going on for over a decade in both adult and mainstream.

Mainstream does much worse than just x-sell. And if you leave online and go out into the "real" world around you, they rape you for a lot more than $100 all the time every day.

You can start by going over your phone bill. Or next time you check into a hotel. Or the biggie...buy a car. They will "Bang" you for thousands on that one.

Anyway, that's just one way that mainstream "bangs" you. They just put it in the fine print and then openly charge your ass for it in the end whether you like it or not. And you can't get your money back on those charges.

And the online mainstream guys have some other tricks that they get away with too.

It's all called "business" and it's been going on since the first caveman sold another caveman a stick to make fire and then added on a bunch of surcharges and x-sold him two rocks to rub together. lol

EDIT: I'm just discussing this with you by the way, and I'm not denying that plenty of folks have done what some call "shady" billing. And some have downright REALLY card banged (as in just charging up on a customers card). But that is pretty damn rare.

My real point was this...sending 750 hits to a join page and seeing one signup and 7 declines is dis-heartening. But the chances of it having anything to do with "shady billing" by people with merchant accounts and it affecting an Epoch sale are very slim. More than likely Epoch just scrubs pretty hard and saw something they didn't like on those 7 attempts.

nice words

Agent 488 · 05-26-2010, 07:19 AM

mainstream billing fucked adult.

hawkadu · 05-26-2010, 07:37 AM

I believe that billing companies are making our ratios bullshit. There are lots and lots of buyers. I don't know what will happen to adult in next years and It is my belief that tubes, torrents and other similar things will never be able to SATISFY a real customer who knows how convenient It is to pay a few bucks and get inside to enjoy the real thing.

Freeloaders will never buy.

hawkadu · 05-26-2010, 07:40 AM

I do a bit of mainstream as well and denials are high. I don't have any data but I've seen emails from few customer saying that they want to buy but can't. After a few hours later, they were able to buy with the same info and everything the same. Not sure what's up with cc companies and banks these days.

Instead of yelling on tubes, maybe we should work on an alternative payment method for our surfers.

tical · 05-26-2010, 02:53 PM

Just following up with some new numbers 9509 join page hits, 8 sales, 58 denials - 12.12% approval ratio.

Disheartening to say the least...

tical · 05-26-2010, 03:12 PM

I bet scrubbing could be lowered if billing companies integrated another level of security, similar to how checks are processed online for example.

Before the charge is accepted, a personal question is asked, similar to:

Pick the first 5 of your social security:

232-32-xxxx
323-55-xxxx
528-13-xxxx
None of these

or: What was your previous street address?

243 Darby Ave.
2912 Mission St.
1192 5th St.
None of these.

These services are out there, and they couldn't hurt: http://www.experian.com/products/aut..._services.html

05-25-2010, 10:25 PM	#1
tical Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,504	Jesus christ, denials denials denials. Seriously? Shady billing practices have adult flagged up the ass. This is just pathetic. From an associates site that I sent some traffic to (Epoch): 750 join page hits, 1 sale, 7 denials. Approval rate of %12.5.

05-26-2010, 02:53 PM	#14
tical Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,504	Just following up with some new numbers 9509 join page hits, 8 sales, 58 denials - 12.12% approval ratio. Disheartening to say the least... Last edited by tical; 05-26-2010 at 02:55 PM..

05-25-2010, 10:26 PM	#2
tical Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,504	I'm assuming this is also an issue when converting trials to full memberships?

05-25-2010, 10:50 PM	#6
tical Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,504	True, I suppose this particular instance could be a fluke. I don't do any billing in the mainstream arena, so I have no frame of reference. I, myself, have been declined to adult websites using perfectly valid credit cards in the past. It just seems that scrubbing is a bit harsher these days. A friend of mine even received a phone call from Chase after attempting to sign up to a site, they suggested he get a new card issued to him. That is just nuts! How many banks outright block all adult sites right off the bat these days? I know there are reasons for scrubbing, and I'm sure they help a lot. I rarely sign up for adult websites, and out of the handful of times that I have, my legitimate cards (with plenty of funds) have been declined at least 40% of the time. Have you noticed an increase in initial transaction denials over the last few months (with any of your processors)?

05-26-2010, 07:19 AM	#11
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	mainstream billing fucked adult.

05-26-2010, 07:37 AM	#12
hawkadu Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 276	I believe that billing companies are making our ratios bullshit. There are lots and lots of buyers. I don't know what will happen to adult in next years and It is my belief that tubes, torrents and other similar things will never be able to SATISFY a real customer who knows how convenient It is to pay a few bucks and get inside to enjoy the real thing. Freeloaders will never buy.

05-26-2010, 07:40 AM	#13
hawkadu Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 276	I do a bit of mainstream as well and denials are high. I don't have any data but I've seen emails from few customer saying that they want to buy but can't. After a few hours later, they were able to buy with the same info and everything the same. Not sure what's up with cc companies and banks these days. Instead of yelling on tubes, maybe we should work on an alternative payment method for our surfers.

05-26-2010, 03:12 PM	#15
tical Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,504	I bet scrubbing could be lowered if billing companies integrated another level of security, similar to how checks are processed online for example. Before the charge is accepted, a personal question is asked, similar to: Pick the first 5 of your social security: 232-32-xxxx 323-55-xxxx 528-13-xxxx None of these or: What was your previous street address? 243 Darby Ave. 2912 Mission St. 1192 5th St. None of these. These services are out there, and they couldn't hurt: http://www.experian.com/products/aut..._services.html