Remember that "international crisis" that Joe Biden promised us?

[Snake Doctor]

Does North Korea renouncing the 1953 truce with South Korea and the U.S. count?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090528/...koreas_nuclear

What Biden said.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

Crazy shit.

[BradM]

Don't worry. The UN is going to write a strongly worded letter soon and all will be well.

[Sly]

If it is "the" international crisis, Obama can't do much about it except beg China to slap their stepchild silly.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by BradM

Don't worry. The UN is going to write a strongly worded letter soon and all will be well.

[Martin]

All part of the plan.

[WarChild]

What you mean exactly like they did in 2003 and 2006?

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by WarChild

What you mean exactly like they did in 2003 and 2006?

I wasn't aware they did that.

I knew the guy running the place was a dingbat, but I figured this had to be something new in order to be front page news, considering everything else going on these days.

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by BradM

Don't worry. The UN is going to write a strongly worded letter soon and all will be well.

Ain't that the truth,,, The UN is worthless.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by BradM

Don't worry. The UN is going to write a strongly worded letter soon and all will be well.

.. that shit made me laugh

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I wasn't aware they did that.

I knew the guy running the place was a dingbat, but I figured this had to be something new in order to be front page news, considering everything else going on these days.

They did it in both of those years AND in 1998 or so when they first started the nuclear program.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Is this how little faith you have in Obama in handling any REAL threat?

Of course this is not the test

Funniest thread of the day.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by WarChild

They did it in both of those years AND in 1998 or so when they first started the nuclear program.

This is not the first crisis concerning North Korea?s development of nuclear weapons. In 1985, North Korea joined the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), which requires non-nuclear states to forswear the development and acquisition of nuclear weapons. But in 1992, International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors discovered that North Korea had diverted plutonium for a weapons program in violation of its treaty commitments. In 1993, amid demands for special inspections, North Korea announced its intention to withdraw from the NPT. The crisis was resolved in 1994 when the United States and North Korea signed the Agreed Framework, under which Pyongyang committed to freezing its illicit plutonium weapons program in exchange for two proliferation-resistant nuclear reactors and additional aid.

in 1994, an agreement was reached and the world (mainly the US) began sending Oil, food, medicine etc as they were in the middle of a massive famine. Shortly thereafter, it was discovered that they had built a second facility and had never slowed down their program at all.

since then, they've been threatening war off and on and demanding aid at the same time and some of you might remember in 02 (i think) when they kicked out the IAEA inspectors again, against all treaties and then threatened the US with war if the US stopped its oil/food and other aid to them as a consequence.

this guy should have been dealt with severely, long ago... and he needs to be dealt with severely today.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by WarChild

when they first started the nuclear program.

with the help of A.Q. Khan and... the CIA.

[Pleasurepays]

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

here is a chronology of events from 1985 to today.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I wasn't aware they did that.

I knew the guy running the place was a dingbat, but I figured this had to be something new in order to be front page news, considering everything else going on these days.

Think of a three-year-old throwing a temper tantrum in the checkout aisle because mommy won't buy him a Snickers bar.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by WarChild

They did it in both of those years AND in 1998 or so when they first started the nuclear program.

I read through all of this.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

here is a chronology of events from 1985 to today.

The summary at the top and the timelines for 2003 and 2006. Nowhere did I see where they renounced the 1953 truce with South Korea.

They've thumbed their nose at various other treaties and agreements they've made in the meantime, but apparently this is a new thing as far as I can tell.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

this guy should have been dealt with severely, long ago... and he needs to be dealt with severely today.

Sure. How many American lives and dollars are you willing to sacrifice so that you can feel we've dealt severely enough with him?

You and your ilk were saying the same thing about Saddam for years. Now after over 4000 dead and a total cost in the neighborhood of $2 trillion, we're no better off than we were before.

That entire region is still a powder keg and all we've really done is embolden Iran.

Yeah, what we need is more tough guy cowboy diplomacy, because the world is so much safer and more peaceful now than it was 8 years ago.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Sly

Think of a three-year-old throwing a temper tantrum in the checkout aisle because mommy won't buy him a Snickers bar.

Yeah but this 3 year old controls a very large army and apparently some nuclear weapons.

I think the escalation in rhetoric and the fact that our military alert has been raised to a level it hasn't been at since we were actually fighting the Korean war is notable.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Sure. How many American lives and dollars are you willing to sacrifice so that you can feel we've dealt severely enough with him?

How many lives are you ready to lose as one of the worlds most unstable and lawless regimes starts selling nuclear weapons to syria, iran, hamas etc etc etc?

you act like there are only good choices. Sorry.. but there just aren't any good choices as long as the rest of the world is going to sit on their ass and do nothing.

Are you trying to make the argument that the world will be a better place with a nuclear armed N Korea who has been threatening war forever now.. and who still considers themselves at war. A weak government who is one of the worlds largest arms dealers to the worlds most unstable and hostile regimes.

You and your ilk were saying the same thing about Saddam for years. Now after over 4000 dead and a total cost in the neighborhood of $2 trillion, we're no better off than we were before.

Really? Iraq is a democracy where more people participate in elections than they do in the US.... and its a democracy right in the middle of a fragile and volatile area of the world that function as autocracies, theocracies, monarchies and terrorist states. We have a nice big fat military presence in the middle of the worlds most unstable region. That's a success.

and yeah... Saddam should have been killed during Kuwait... but "you and your ilk" as you put it, wouldn't hear of going into Baghdad and finishing the job.

The world will never be a Utopia full of nothing but rainbows and butterflies no matter how bad you want to see it that way. The fact of the matter is that many people want to see you dead... they don't want to discuss it. they don't want anything from you.. they don't want an apology... they just want to murder you and your family for what you stand for, where you live and what religion you choose to believe in.

"you may not want war.. but war wants you"

[Pleasurepays]

and we haven't done anything to embolden iran. they are acting as they have always acted. your problem si that you can't see things for how they are. these countries have objectives... political, economic and strategic and they are working hard to achieve them no matter what you think.. and they don't need, seek or want your approval, or the UN's, or that of the US. they are aggressively working towards their objectives hoping that people like you will keep slowing down those who try to put up road blocks with your dreams about peace and love and happiness for all.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Yeah but this 3 year old controls a very large army and apparently some nuclear weapons.

I think the escalation in rhetoric and the fact that our military alert has been raised to a level it hasn't been at since we were actually fighting the Korean war is notable.

It isn't an escalation in rhetoric. It's him being himself, trying to show his people that he is fighting off the evil world that wants them all dead. This is what he does... and whenever he does it, the world jumps and oos and aahs, we give him something else that he wants for a "new negotiation" and the cycle repeats.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

you act like there are only good choices. Sorry.. but there just aren't any good choices as long as the rest of the world is going to sit on their ass and do nothing.

There are no good choices, so lets make the bad choice of not sacrificing American lives and treasure in order to avoid a bunch of hypothetical shit that you say can or will happen in the future.

That's the kind of idiocy that got us into Iraq, which is a quagmire. It's not a success. The region is no more stable, and Americans don't need to die so that Arabs can have the right to vote.

If they want to vote bad enough, they'll fight their own war, the way our founding fathers fought ours.

This whole idea of exporting democracy is fucking ridiculous. You can't force democracy on a population that doesn't want it or understand what to do with it. All you end up with is a paper mache government that falls to a military coup and you replace one asshole dictator with another.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

There are no good choices, so lets make the bad choice of not sacrificing American lives and treasure in order to avoid a bunch of hypothetical shit that you say can or will happen in the future.

I'm sure Kim Jong Il appreciates your support as he continues to bully the world in his little game of political and now nuclear blackmail while he starves his own population to death.

Just because you can't find a good choice.. doesn't mean its not necessary to start making the difficult choices since he's clearly going to force everyone's hand.

He's starved millions of his own people and threatens the world.. but that's cool with you. Hopefully he can count on your support in the future as he begins selling nuclear weapons to terrorist states. After all, what harm could come of that?

"North Korea has made a choice, chosen to violate the specific language of the U.N. Security Council (Resolution) 1718. It has ignored the international community, abrogated the six-party talks and continues to act in a provocative and belligerent manner," Clinton said during remarks with Egyptian Foreign Minister Aboul Gheit.

"In the United Nations, as we speak, discussions are going on as to the consequences that North Korea will face coming out of the latest behavior, trying to rein in the North Koreans and get them back into a framework they have chosen where they fulfill their obligations," she said."

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

and we haven't done anything to embolden iran. they are acting as they have always acted. your problem si that you can't see things for how they are. these countries have objectives... political, economic and strategic and they are working hard to achieve them no matter what you think.. and they don't need, seek or want your approval, or the UN's, or that of the US. they are aggressively working towards their objectives hoping that people like you will keep slowing down those who try to put up road blocks with your dreams about peace and love and happiness for all.

Yeah, I'm the one who can't see things for how they are.

This is what makes you such a dick. You're just like 12pricks.

In your world, it's not possible for a smart, well informed person to have a different opinion than you. So if I don't agree with you, I must be an idiot, or misinformed, or I just can't see this, or don't understand that.

Fuck off asshole.

[Joshua G]

the test will come from Israel.

[pornguy]

I guess you guys have not been told. Obama is the Savior.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Yeah, I'm the one who can't see things for how they are.

This is what makes you such a dick. You're just like 12pricks.

In your world, it's not possible for a smart, well informed person to have a different opinion than you. So if I don't agree with you, I must be an idiot, or misinformed, or I just can't see this, or don't understand that.

Fuck off asshole.

What's so tough for you to understand??

Why is this so hard for you?

YOU are enabling this guy. YOUR attitude is emboldening this regime. HE knows he can count on YOU and your indirect support.

Why can't you accept that some really horrible decisions have to be made and tough action needs to be taken? not because everyone wants it.. but because he is FORCING it.



North Korea appears intent on restarting the Korean War, threatening a powerful military strike against South Korea and claiming it will no longer honor the 1953 Armistice that ended the conflict that divided the peninsula.


I understand that you are just angry because you know i'm right and you're wrong. I forgive you for your harsh words. I understand the box you've painted yourself into and that you really have no defensible position (at least not one that can be defending either with history, reason or logic).

[Snake Doctor]

This stupid "he's going to sell nuclear weapons to so and so" is the same argument for why we went into Iraq.

Our army can't even handle it's current missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you want to invade N Korea and Iran in addition to all that we currently have on our plate?

Yeah, let's crank up the draft and raise taxes to 75%, all because some stupid dictator says and does stupid shit.

Diplomatic options are our only options, because our Army is already broken because it's been fighting an unnecessary war in Iraq for the past 6 years. If we weren't bogged down in Iraq, we would have the military option on the table and that would change the entire situation.
Instead, we can't really do shit militarily, and these assholes know it, and are exploiting it. So your solution to that is to start two more wars?

Brilliant.


Of course, I'm dying to know what the plan will be for the next country that steps out of line while we're fighting wars on 4 fronts.

Of course those of us who think these things through instead of just smacking people around, well we're deluded by rainbow fairies or some shit like that.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by pornguy

I guess you guys have not been told. Obama is the Savior.

Obama might not be the savior (i know that's heresy to even think!!)... BUT Hillary is definitely a cunt that wants power and respect and to be seen as strong and in control... so i think that will play well in the end.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

I understand that you are just angry because you know i'm right and you're wrong..

Do you get an erection when you look in the mirror?

You're pretty fucking full of yourself.

This is just like when you said Obama knows you're right about taxes, that raising them will decrease revenue, so that's why he's not raising them, he just won't admit it publicly.

Yeah that's what it is. People spend all of their time defending positions that they know are wrong. We vote for and make campaign contributions to candidates who support these positions that we know are wrong, just because we want to piss you off, but we're too afraid to admit it publicly.

You're a fucking tool. Welcome to my ignore list.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Of course those of us who think these things through instead of just smacking people around, well we're deluded by rainbow fairies or some shit like that.

The funny thing about your moronic remarks, is that I NEVER said anything about war. N Korea is still dependent on US and Ally oil, money, investment and aid. That should all stop as a first course of action. that's pretty severe. Beyond that, the UN should move to sanction them from every angle, we can freeze assets and, limit their ability to move money and so on.

I understand you are a simpleton, but there are other options in this particular case than invading the country and deposing the leader. I don't think anyone has ever... EVER considered that as an option.

However, since you've already admitted that you have no clue about the history of his and his fathers regime and the bullshit they have pulled... maybe you should take a few minutes to educate yourself rather than spending that time embarrassing yourself.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Does North Korea renouncing the 1953 truce with South Korea and the U.S. count?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090528/...koreas_nuclear

What Biden said.


Crazy shit.

Yeah, I mean it's not like there was a single crisis before the election, especially not
with the exact same countries.

Awesome prediction that the same shit would just keep happening.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by sortie

Yeah, I mean it's not like there was a single crisis before the election, especially not
with the exact same countries.

Awesome prediction that the same shit would just keep happening.

he can't answer.... he's outside right now trying to catch butterflies and chase rainbows.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

What's so tough for you to understand??

Why is this so hard for you?

YOU are enabling this guy. YOUR attitude is emboldening this regime. HE knows he can count on YOU and your indirect support.

Why can't you accept that some really horrible decisions have to be made and tough action needs to be taken? not because everyone wants it.. but because he is FORCING it.



North Korea appears intent on restarting the Korean War, threatening a powerful military strike against South Korea and claiming it will no longer honor the 1953 Armistice that ended the conflict that divided the peninsula.


I understand that you are just angry because you know i'm right and you're wrong. I forgive you for your harsh words. I understand the box you've painted yourself into and that you really have no defensible position (at least not one that can be defending either with history, reason or logic).

Everything you say sounds like the kind of fear created about Y2k and WMD.
Non of that shit materialized. If you buy into all this fear then we will need to kill
just about every other country in the world based on it.

Your fear is threatening because your fear is expressed as a need to "do something"
and the something is kill them or cut off their food. Don't you think that creates
fear in the "enemy" so they need to show they have bombs also to back you down?

North Korean troops are not at the Mexican border staring down our throat and trying
to tell us what we can/cannot do in our country. It's the other way around.
Who is really the threatening one????????????????????????????????

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by sortie

Everything you say sounds like the kind of fear created about Y2k and WMD.
Non of that shit materialized. If you buy into all this fear then we will need to kill
just about every other country in the world based on it.

Your fear is threatening because your fear is expressed as a need to "do something"
and the something is kill them or cut off their food. Don't you think that creates
fear in the "enemy" so they need to show they have bombs also to back you down?

North Korean troops are not at the Mexican border staring down our throat and trying
to tell us what we can/cannot do in our country. It's the other way around.
Who is really the threatening one????????????????????????????????

what does that bizarre assumption have to do with the realities of their behavior... having long range missiles and nuclear weapons and threatening war?

no matter how you see the issue.. uhmm... there is a security concern there. few nations disagree with that simple fact.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

what does that bizarre assumption have to do with the realities of their behavior... having long range missiles and nuclear weapons and threatening war?

no matter how you see the issue.. uhmm... there is a security concern there. few nations disagree with that simple fact.

Me :

The bee was in the room but I was not scared and kept calm while I kept my
eye on him and continued to do my work.
The bee flew off after 30 seconds and out the window.


You :

The bee was in the room and you were scared and so scared that you grabbed a
broom and tried to smash the bee. You are not nearly as good at killing bees as
you have bragged to be the leader of the most powerful bee killers in the world so
you missed that bee and it stung you hard.