LA Times: Tough times in the porn industry; Girls Admit They're Not Working - GoFuckYourself.com

Porno Dan · 08-10-2009, 10:52 AM

LA Times: Tough times in the porn industry; Girls Admit They're Not Working
from www.latimes.com - On a recent Saturday night, Savannah Stern earned $300 to hang out for seven hours at a party in Santa Monica wearing nothing but a feather boa.

The veteran of more than 350 hard-core pornography productions took the job to earn extra cash and to network. But the word at the 35th anniversary party for Hustler magazine was not heartening, especially among the roughly 75 other women working there.

"At least five girls I haven't seen in a while came up to me and said, 'Savannah, are you working?' " said Stern, who started in the industry four years ago and, like most adult performers, uses a stage name. "I had to say, 'No, not really,' and they all said, 'Yeah, I'm not either.' "

The adult entertainment business, centered in the San Fernando Valley, has weathered several recessions since it took off with the advent of home video in the 1980s. But this time the industry is not dealing with just a weakened economy. A growing abundance of free content on the Internet is undercutting consumers' willingness to pay for porn, and with it the ability of many workers to earn a living in the business.

For Stern, 23, the rapid decline of job opportunities in the porn business over the last year has been dramatic. She has gone from working four or five days a week to one and now has employers pressuring her to do male-female sex scenes for $700, a 30% discount from the $1,000 fee that used to be the industry standard.

Less than two years ago, Stern earned close to $150,000 annually, sometimes turned down work and drove a Mercedes-Benz CLK 350. Now she's aggressively reaching out for jobs and making closer to $50,000 a year.

As for that Mercedes? She's replacing it with a used Chevy Trailblazer -- from her parents.

"The opportunities in this industry really are disappearing," Stern said. "It's extremely stressful."

Industry insiders estimate that since 2007, revenue for most adult production and distribution companies has declined 30% to 50% and the number of new films made has fallen sharply.

"We've gone through recessions before, but we've never been hit from every side like this," said Mark Spiegler, head of the Spiegler Girls talent agency, who has worked in porn since 1995.

"It's the free stuff that's killing us, and that's not going away," said Dion Jurasso, owner of porn production company Combat Zone, which has seen its business fall about 50% in the last three years.

Porn is hardly the only segment of the media industry struggling with these issues. But its problems appear to be more severe. Whereas online piracy has forced big changes in the music industry and is starting to affect movies and television, it has upended adult entertainment.

At least five of the 100 top websites in the U.S. are portals for free pornography, referred to in the industry as "tube sites," according to Internet traffic ranking service Alexa .com. Some of their content is amateur work uploaded by users and some is acquired from cheap back catalogs, but much of it is pirated.

Sites like Pornhub, YouPorn and RedTube attract more users than TMZ and the Huffington Post. The porn sites are even bigger than Pirate Bay, the top portal for illegal downloads of movies, TV shows and music.

Frustratingly for porn producers and distributors in the Valley, none of these sites appears to be making much money. Suzann Knudsen, a marketing director for PornoTube, said the site's parent, Adult Entertainment Broadcast Network, uses it to attract customers for paid video on demand.

"PornoTube isn't a piggy bank," she said. "Its true value is in traffic."

The adult entertainment business, which was previously in the vanguard of home video, satellite and cable television and digital distribution, now finds itself leading the rest of the entertainment industry in losses from them.

"The death of the DVD business has been more accelerated in the adult business than mainstream," said Bill Asher, co-chairman of adult industry giant Vivid Entertainment, who estimates that his company's revenue is down more than 20% this year.

"We always said that once the Internet took off, we'd be OK," he added. "It never crossed our minds that we'd be competing with people who just give it away for free."

There are plenty of other signs of the porn industry's pain. Attendance at the Adult Entertainment Expo, an annual trade show in Las Vegas that's open some days to the public, was down 20% this year. Pay-per-view programming, a key revenue source for the industry, has fallen about 50% from its peak three or four years ago, according to a person familiar with the cable and satellite TV business.

Reliable revenue and employment figures for the adult industry don't exist, since no analysts or economists track it. Adult Video News estimated in 2006 that it was worth $13 billion, but Paul Fishbein, editor of the trade publication, said the number was "an educated guess."

"Almost all of the companies in our industry are privately held, and they keep the cards close to their chests," said Diane Duke, executive director of the Free Speech Coalition, an industry trade group.

The effects of the downturn have been felt most severely by the thousands of people who work in the adult entertainment business.

Kelly Labanco doesn't need industry estimates to know what's happening. The makeup artist, who has worked in porn for five years, is landing half as many jobs as she did a year ago and has seen her pay drop from a high of $250 an hour to less than $100.

"A lot of companies say they don't even need makeup artists now and the girls can do it themselves," said Labanco, who has returned to her previous job doing freelance music publicity to pay the bills.

Even the industry's biggest events aren't worth what they used to be for working people like Labanco. Last year, she and a friend did makeup for a week at the Adult Entertainment Expo and earned $8,000. This year: $1,200.

Caroline Pierce, an adult film performer who lives in Las Vegas but flies to Los Angeles for work, said many companies have pressured her to do more scenes for less money.

"Instead of paying you $800 to do one, they'll pay you $1,200 for both," she explained.

As economic pressures increase, many performers have also changed their minds about what they are willing do on-screen. Previously, women earned hefty bonuses for unusual sex scenes. That's often no longer the case.

"A few years ago the girls we got were OK, but not stellar models, and we were sometimes paying $2,500," said porn director Matt Morningwood, referring to a website he shoots for that features one woman and multiple male partners.

"Nowadays some of the top-tier models will do that scene for us and you're looking at maybe $1,800. I'm happy for the production, but I feel bad for exploiting the girls' situation."

The only growth market most executives see is mobile devices, since they let consumers watch porn anywhere and in relative privacy.

Major companies that serve as a gateway to content on cellphones in the U.S. such as Verizon don't allow explicit adult content. But like cable and satellite companies in the 1990s, they may change their minds when they see the potential profit.

"Anyone betting against porn being a meaningful driver of traffic and revenue on mobile networks would be making a bad choice based on history," said Charles Golvin, an analyst at Forrester Research.

Adult performers with big followings probably will continue to prosper, since they often work under a guaranteed contract and have loyal fans who buy all their work. Business managers for Belladonna and Tera Patrick, two of the industry's biggest stars, said their clients were using their celebrity to make money in other ways, like dancing in exotic clubs and licensing their name to sex toys and lingerie.

"The economy has forced us to look in other directions such as tangible goods," said Evan Seinfeld, who co-manages Patrick, his wife, and runs her production company, Teravision.

But for the "middle class" of the industry, those opportunities don't exist.

"It seems at this point that if you haven't established a well-known name, it's really hard to keep working," performer Alexa Jordan said.

Savannah Stern [pictured] is adjusting to that reality. She's shooting scenes for her own subscription website and planning a tour of exotic dance clubs to earn money from her name while she can. After that, she hopes to go to college for an interior design degree and work in her family's real estate development and contracting business.

"I wish I would have never gotten into it," Stern said of her career in porn. "When you get used to a certain lifestyle, it's really hard to cut back and realize this may not be forever."

C H R I S · 08-10-2009, 10:54 AM

It was a great party. Dan we need to do our part tp keep these girls working.

american pervert · 08-10-2009, 10:56 AM

boo hoo.. when i started girls were getting $600 for b/g and $700 for b/g anal and the guys around $100-150 per scene .. bring back those rates and they will get more work again.

tonyparra · 08-10-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVNChris

It was a great party. Dan we need to do our part tp keep these girls working.

marketsmart · 08-10-2009, 10:57 AM

i'm hoping that the price of hookers goes down as well...

Agent 488 · 08-10-2009, 11:05 AM

capitalism is a bitch when you're on the other side.

EscortBiz · 08-10-2009, 11:07 AM

yeah but every content shooter says he never shot this much in his life

its no surprise thou

american pervert · 08-10-2009, 11:08 AM

what's funny is these stupid girls went and out and leased/bought cars they didn't need or could really afford and bought purses, clothes and other status items which won't help pay their bills.

glad they are learning the hard way.

seeandsee · 08-10-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porno Dan

LA Times: Tough times in the porn industry; Girls Admit They're Not Working
from www.latimes.com - On a recent Saturday night, Savannah Stern earned $300 to hang out for seven hours at a party in Santa Monica wearing nothing but a feather boa.

The veteran of more than 350 hard-core pornography productions took the job to earn extra cash and to network. But the word at the 35th anniversary party for Hustler magazine was not heartening, especially among the roughly 75 other women working there.

"At least five girls I haven't seen in a while came up to me and said, 'Savannah, are you working?' " said Stern, who started in the industry four years ago and, like most adult performers, uses a stage name. "I had to say, 'No, not really,' and they all said, 'Yeah, I'm not either.' "

The adult entertainment business, centered in the San Fernando Valley, has weathered several recessions since it took off with the advent of home video in the 1980s. But this time the industry is not dealing with just a weakened economy. A growing abundance of free content on the Internet is undercutting consumers' willingness to pay for porn, and with it the ability of many workers to earn a living in the business.

For Stern, 23, the rapid decline of job opportunities in the porn business over the last year has been dramatic. She has gone from working four or five days a week to one and now has employers pressuring her to do male-female sex scenes for $700, a 30% discount from the $1,000 fee that used to be the industry standard.

Less than two years ago, Stern earned close to $150,000 annually, sometimes turned down work and drove a Mercedes-Benz CLK 350. Now she's aggressively reaching out for jobs and making closer to $50,000 a year.

As for that Mercedes? She's replacing it with a used Chevy Trailblazer -- from her parents.

"The opportunities in this industry really are disappearing," Stern said. "It's extremely stressful."

Industry insiders estimate that since 2007, revenue for most adult production and distribution companies has declined 30% to 50% and the number of new films made has fallen sharply.

"We've gone through recessions before, but we've never been hit from every side like this," said Mark Spiegler, head of the Spiegler Girls talent agency, who has worked in porn since 1995.

"It's the free stuff that's killing us, and that's not going away," said Dion Jurasso, owner of porn production company Combat Zone, which has seen its business fall about 50% in the last three years.

Porn is hardly the only segment of the media industry struggling with these issues. But its problems appear to be more severe. Whereas online piracy has forced big changes in the music industry and is starting to affect movies and television, it has upended adult entertainment.

At least five of the 100 top websites in the U.S. are portals for free pornography, referred to in the industry as "tube sites," according to Internet traffic ranking service Alexa .com. Some of their content is amateur work uploaded by users and some is acquired from cheap back catalogs, but much of it is pirated.

Sites like Pornhub, YouPorn and RedTube attract more users than TMZ and the Huffington Post. The porn sites are even bigger than Pirate Bay, the top portal for illegal downloads of movies, TV shows and music.

Frustratingly for porn producers and distributors in the Valley, none of these sites appears to be making much money. Suzann Knudsen, a marketing director for PornoTube, said the site's parent, Adult Entertainment Broadcast Network, uses it to attract customers for paid video on demand.

"PornoTube isn't a piggy bank," she said. "Its true value is in traffic."

The adult entertainment business, which was previously in the vanguard of home video, satellite and cable television and digital distribution, now finds itself leading the rest of the entertainment industry in losses from them.

"The death of the DVD business has been more accelerated in the adult business than mainstream," said Bill Asher, co-chairman of adult industry giant Vivid Entertainment, who estimates that his company's revenue is down more than 20% this year.

"We always said that once the Internet took off, we'd be OK," he added. "It never crossed our minds that we'd be competing with people who just give it away for free."

There are plenty of other signs of the porn industry's pain. Attendance at the Adult Entertainment Expo, an annual trade show in Las Vegas that's open some days to the public, was down 20% this year. Pay-per-view programming, a key revenue source for the industry, has fallen about 50% from its peak three or four years ago, according to a person familiar with the cable and satellite TV business.

Reliable revenue and employment figures for the adult industry don't exist, since no analysts or economists track it. Adult Video News estimated in 2006 that it was worth $13 billion, but Paul Fishbein, editor of the trade publication, said the number was "an educated guess."

"Almost all of the companies in our industry are privately held, and they keep the cards close to their chests," said Diane Duke, executive director of the Free Speech Coalition, an industry trade group.

The effects of the downturn have been felt most severely by the thousands of people who work in the adult entertainment business.

Kelly Labanco doesn't need industry estimates to know what's happening. The makeup artist, who has worked in porn for five years, is landing half as many jobs as she did a year ago and has seen her pay drop from a high of $250 an hour to less than $100.

"A lot of companies say they don't even need makeup artists now and the girls can do it themselves," said Labanco, who has returned to her previous job doing freelance music publicity to pay the bills.

Even the industry's biggest events aren't worth what they used to be for working people like Labanco. Last year, she and a friend did makeup for a week at the Adult Entertainment Expo and earned $8,000. This year: $1,200.

Caroline Pierce, an adult film performer who lives in Las Vegas but flies to Los Angeles for work, said many companies have pressured her to do more scenes for less money.

"Instead of paying you $800 to do one, they'll pay you $1,200 for both," she explained.

As economic pressures increase, many performers have also changed their minds about what they are willing do on-screen. Previously, women earned hefty bonuses for unusual sex scenes. That's often no longer the case.

"A few years ago the girls we got were OK, but not stellar models, and we were sometimes paying $2,500," said porn director Matt Morningwood, referring to a website he shoots for that features one woman and multiple male partners.

"Nowadays some of the top-tier models will do that scene for us and you're looking at maybe $1,800. I'm happy for the production, but I feel bad for exploiting the girls' situation."

The only growth market most executives see is mobile devices, since they let consumers watch porn anywhere and in relative privacy.

Major companies that serve as a gateway to content on cellphones in the U.S. such as Verizon don't allow explicit adult content. But like cable and satellite companies in the 1990s, they may change their minds when they see the potential profit.

"Anyone betting against porn being a meaningful driver of traffic and revenue on mobile networks would be making a bad choice based on history," said Charles Golvin, an analyst at Forrester Research.

Adult performers with big followings probably will continue to prosper, since they often work under a guaranteed contract and have loyal fans who buy all their work. Business managers for Belladonna and Tera Patrick, two of the industry's biggest stars, said their clients were using their celebrity to make money in other ways, like dancing in exotic clubs and licensing their name to sex toys and lingerie.

"The economy has forced us to look in other directions such as tangible goods," said Evan Seinfeld, who co-manages Patrick, his wife, and runs her production company, Teravision.

But for the "middle class" of the industry, those opportunities don't exist.

"It seems at this point that if you haven't established a well-known name, it's really hard to keep working," performer Alexa Jordan said.

Savannah Stern [pictured] is adjusting to that reality. She's shooting scenes for her own subscription website and planning a tour of exotic dance clubs to earn money from her name while she can. After that, she hopes to go to college for an interior design degree and work in her family's real estate development and contracting business.

"I wish I would have never gotten into it," Stern said of her career in porn. "When you get used to a certain lifestyle, it's really hard to cut back and realize this may not be forever."

i got payed 3$ to be naked :D

Grapesoda · 08-10-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

yeah but every content shooter says he never shot this much in his life

its no surprise thou

yikes!!!!!!

Great Shooter · 08-10-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american pervert

boo hoo.. when i started girls were getting $600 for b/g and $700 for b/g anal and the guys around $100-150 per scene .. bring back those rates and they will get more work again.

I agree 100% all the way!! Plus, get the those solo only girls to do some BG and they will get more work s well..

Boy/Girl out sells solo by a million times, it is not rocket science to figure that out!

So they should smarten up and do a little more than what they really want.
I laugh when i see a hot girl let another hot girls stick her tongue in her asshole, but wont suck a dick on video!
Some girls think that a shit hole taste much better than a dick lol

OrangeContent · 08-10-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american pervert

what's funny is these stupid girls went and out and leased/bought cars they didn't need or could really afford and bought purses, clothes and other status items which won't help pay their bills.

glad they are learning the hard way.

This is true. I think this is a lesson almost everyone has to learn in life, some do learn the hard way.

Robbie · 08-10-2009, 11:34 AM

I guess nobody got the memo from gideongallery:
All the stealing of content is GOOD for the business lol

Or Roald can come on this thread and mock everyone about how great freeones is doing and torrent sites and tubes mean nothing.

Some of us saw this a couple of years ago and said "Hey, THIS is what's gonna hurt people" Meanwhile the mob was babbling about x-sells that were around for a decade already.

The effects of every studio having their entire catalog available for free and every paysite having their members areas ripped for free plus the economy plus the now widespread knowledge of the torrent sites and illegit tubes = A trickle down effect that is gonna put a major hurt on everybody from talent to shooters to owners.

Well, not all of us. Some of us have worked hard to stop that from happening. And it worked. But for the ones who were unaware, or being misdirected at x-sells and missing the boat...it's big trouble.

gleem · 08-10-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american pervert

boo hoo.. when i started girls were getting $600 for b/g and $700 for b/g anal and the guys around $100-150 per scene .. bring back those rates and they will get more work again.

bingo, the cartel has been keeping prices up, if it wasn't porn they would be busted up for price fixing.

NemesisEnforcer · 08-10-2009, 11:49 AM

It's been like this all year. I have girls calling saying they will do a B/G scene with their boyfriend or husband for $300 total, more if it's with another guy. Unfortunately, I've already shot them and I don't need the material. Some of them are living in hotels because they were evicted and need money right away. It's truly sad.

I'm shooting a girl next week for free for herself so that she can try and sell the content to make money.

If anyone needs any content, I will steer then your way. If you want, I will shoot it for free to get the girls some cash.

V_RocKs · 08-10-2009, 12:11 PM

I often wonder why anyone would do porn... Why not become an affiliate and make much more cash?

Mainly because these people aren't too bright to begin with.

DaddyHalbucks · 08-10-2009, 12:38 PM

It sounds like the talent girls were spending too much in the good times..

XPays · 08-10-2009, 12:57 PM

dmca needs to be changed asap. once it is, we will have a super crop of porn junkies to sell to on a bigger scale than ever before.

TheSenator · 08-10-2009, 12:58 PM

That explains why Nikki Benz open up her ass for traffic.

marcop · 08-10-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american pervert

boo hoo.. when i started girls were getting $600 for b/g and $700 for b/g anal and the guys around $100-150 per scene .. bring back those rates and they will get more work again.

In 2006 and 2007 some of the bigger agencies became very aggressive about pushing girls' rates up. Consequently, I started booking a lot of girls direct--which is not hard to do. Also, as rates went up, so the amount of work that agents were booking for most girls went down... In early 2007, I called one agent and offered $800 for a specific model for an easy and quick b/g scene... and he told me the girl wanted $900. He was unwilling to negotiate, and as I had a thin margin on the shoot, I booked another girl. A couple weeks later the $900 model came to my studio to pick up her roommate, who I was shooting, and she told me she hadn't worked in over a month!

I know of girls who've been in the biz for a while who are now booking b/g shoots for $500 and $600 dollars, even though they insist on the fiction that their "rate" is $1,000 or whatever. I've never seen such an over-supply of female talent in the 12 years I've been shooting. That, coupled with the downturn in the business, which has caused people to cut down on shooting, meant that prices had to come down. IMHO, prices for talent will continue to fall--at least until shooting picks up again.

RyuLion · 08-10-2009, 01:05 PM

I have some work for them..

JamesK · 08-10-2009, 01:15 PM

nice more exposure for the tubes

Roald · 08-10-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

...
Or Roald can come on this thread and mock everyone about how great freeones is doing and torrent sites and tubes mean nothing.
.....

1. yes we still do pretty well, we are one of your top 10 affiliates but you are far from our top 10 programs. Not even close to #50 to be perfectly honest.
2. I never said tubes/torrents don't hurt us
3. we are also not on our 2008 level

Learn to read sometime or please shut up already. Didn't you ask me a while ago while I always seem to be against you? Well its stuff like this that makes me do so.

No go cry about how we are not making 1999 sales anymore

There you have it lol

PS Savannah should bring out her official site let us push it like it's nineteennintynine...

cheers!

Roald · 08-10-2009, 01:24 PM

BTW Dan, had a chat today about Berlin. Interested for sure just need to know a few things. Will drop you a line this week!

cherrylula · 08-10-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porno Dan

The veteran of more than 350 hard-core pornography productions took the job to earn extra cash and to network. But the word at the 35th anniversary party for Hustler magazine was not heartening, especially among the roughly 75 other women working there.

The industry is based on fresh faces...

AmeliaG · 08-10-2009, 01:41 PM

For a few years, I think rates got very unrealistically inflated for talent. There were a huge number of new people entering the business who had no idea how to do the math and who had big fantasy dollar signs in their eyes. Now that a lot of the hopefuls have fallen by the wayside and the economy is so difficult, the hopefuls have mostly given up and shuttered their businesses and the going concerns are minding their costs and are not going to match the fantasy rates of people who erroneously think they are going to make those dollars back later.

american pervert · 08-10-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcop

In 2006 and 2007 some of the bigger agencies became very aggressive about pushing girls' rates up. Consequently, I started booking a lot of girls direct--which is not hard to do. Also, as rates went up, so the amount of work that agents were booking for most girls went down... In early 2007, I called one agent and offered $800 for a specific model for an easy and quick b/g scene... and he told me the girl wanted $900. He was unwilling to negotiate, and as I had a thin margin on the shoot, I booked another girl. A couple weeks later the $900 model came to my studio to pick up her roommate, who I was shooting, and she told me she hadn't worked in over a month!

I know of girls who've been in the biz for a while who are now booking b/g shoots for $500 and $600 dollars, even though they insist on the fiction that their "rate" is $1,000 or whatever. I've never seen such an over-supply of female talent in the 12 years I've been shooting. That, coupled with the downturn in the business, which has caused people to cut down on shooting, meant that prices had to come down. IMHO, prices for talent will continue to fall--at least until shooting picks up again.

the rise in talent cost is directly proportional to the increase of websites shooting their own stuff. for years the video companies paid as little as possible then the internet companies come in and don't know how to haggle and pay the first price the agent quotes.

i don't mind paying a solid male performer but some guys who book themselves at $500+ a scene were getting a bit high on their horses. ESPICALLY when I'm booking them to shoot with some crazy hot chick.

And I always make my shoots in the am so I don't get some guy who double booked and I get his 2nd (or 3rd) pop of the day.

CIVMatt · 08-10-2009, 01:54 PM

We pay half the rates you guys do, so tell them to suck it up

L-Pink · 08-10-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays

dmca needs to be changed asap. once it is, we will have a super crop of porn junkies to sell to on a bigger scale than ever before.

.

SGS · 08-10-2009, 02:09 PM

Over the last few years model rates have become totally unrealistic and those who don't accept an "adjustment" don't get booked. Business is business.

dirtymind · 08-10-2009, 02:13 PM

well prices had to drop one day. I am still amazed how many different girls are doing porn. it unbelievable. With so many working you always see the price lowering when the demand is bigger then the need.

but seems to be good for us pay site owners. Except for the stolen content and such. I am not sure that will ever go right again.

Grapesoda · 08-10-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcop

In 2006 and 2007 some of the bigger agencies became very aggressive about pushing girls' rates up. Consequently, I started booking a lot of girls direct--which is not hard to do. Also, as rates went up, so the amount of work that agents were booking for most girls went down... In early 2007, I called one agent and offered $800 for a specific model for an easy and quick b/g scene... and he told me the girl wanted $900. He was unwilling to negotiate, and as I had a thin margin on the shoot, I booked another girl. A couple weeks later the $900 model came to my studio to pick up her roommate, who I was shooting, and she told me she hadn't worked in over a month!

I know of girls who've been in the biz for a while who are now booking b/g shoots for $500 and $600 dollars, even though they insist on the fiction that their "rate" is $1,000 or whatever. I've never seen such an over-supply of female talent in the 12 years I've been shooting. That, coupled with the downturn in the business, which has caused people to cut down on shooting, meant that prices had to come down. IMHO, prices for talent will continue to fall--at least until shooting picks up again.

rate have been artificially high for a few years: if every one has an apple tree in the yard why is the price of apples going up? basic biz 101

DWB · 08-10-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porno Dan

"It's the free stuff that's killing us, and that's not going away," said Dion Jurasso, owner of porn production company Combat Zone, which has seen its business fall about 50% in the last three years.

Perhaps Dion would only be down 20% if he had not whored out his content at any price, to anyone who would take it, for any license, and then sold it to every web content store that exists. He wanted a fast buck, he got his ass fucked in return. His content is EVERYWHERE, for free. His stuff is out there more than most.

The DVD industry is going to die. There is no avoiding that. The ones who whore out their content will die sooner than others. The ones who control it and fight to control it, will/may transition and stick around a little longer or make it in the long run.

TheAmericanCannibal · 08-10-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Perhaps Dion would only be down 20% if he had not whored out his content at any price, to anyone who would take it, for any license, and then sold it to every web content store that exists. He wanted a fast buck, he got his ass fucked in return. His content is EVERYWHERE, for free. His stuff is out there more than most.

The DVD industry is going to die. There is no avoiding that. The ones who whore out their content will die sooner than others. The ones who control it and fight to control it, will/may transition and stick around a little longer or make it in the long run.

A fuckin Men

Robbie · 08-10-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

1. yes we still do pretty well, we are one of your top 10 affiliates but you are far from our top 10 programs. Not even close to #50 to be perfectly honest.
2. I never said tubes/torrents don't hurt us
3. we are also not on our 2008 level

Learn to read sometime or please shut up already. Didn't you ask me a while ago while I always seem to be against you? Well its stuff like this that makes me do so.

No go cry about how we are not making 1999 sales anymore

There you have it lol

PS Savannah should bring out her official site let us push it like it's nineteennintynine...

cheers!

1. No you're not one of my top ten affiliates. You're not even on the same page as guys like joggs and boobster because they specialize in the big tit niche, which for me is where it's happening.

2. A lot of posts I made concerning content theft sites you would come in and tell me that it didn't mean much. I completely disagree with you.

3. Revenue going to get a lot lower for a lot of the big programs that both of us promote as rebills continue to drop because people see no need to stay a member of a site that all of their buddies are seeing for free.

"Learn to read sometime or please shut up already. Didn't you ask me a while ago while I always seem to be against you? Well its stuff like this that makes me do so."

Nice. Very disrespectful.

"No go cry about how we are not making 1999 sales anymore

"

Again completely uncalled for disrespect. I am not crying about anything. I'm pointing out the facts that a lot of big sponsors are dead in the water because of content theft and piracy. I've noticed you made a couple of threads wondering why you weren't getting paid too.

For the record...you guys send sales mostly based on the fact that your site kicks so much ass in search engines that you are almost always number 1, 2, or 3 in the listing for every model you have a page for. That kicks ass and you guys deserve those sales. But as far as actual traffic you send from your site? Not much on a good day. Not that it matters, but just saying...I already told you before, you can pull Claudia-Marie's page off your site right now and it won't mean anything except more money in my pocket from less people clicking on your google link because it would fall away. You're sending next to nothing from the actual site.

Not trying to be an asshole, but just telling the truth. Your attitude towards people who pay you is way out of line my friend.

pocketkangaroo · 08-10-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Some of us saw this a couple of years ago and said "Hey, THIS is what's gonna hurt people" Meanwhile the mob was babbling about x-sells that were around for a decade already.

The mob wasn't about x-sales, it was about credit card fraud. Two different things.

TheAmericanCannibal · 08-10-2009, 02:43 PM

How do we get Porno Dan to stop working?
If porn is so dead how is he still alive?

Robbie · 08-10-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The mob wasn't about x-sales, it was about credit card fraud. Two different things.

But a lot of people didn't see that it was two different things. Look back at those threads...there were webmasters who had been promoting companies for a decade but didn't know about the practice of x-sells, suddenly doing test signups and screaming to the heavens about it and calling it "fraud". There were plenty of guys claiming that every and any x-sell was "fraud".

I was saying that x-sells had been around forever...are still around and very prevalent in mainstream and that meanwhile I was watching piracy take sales away.

From my interpretation of those "debates" (or lynchings), piracy was thought to be only a small part of the problem while shady credit card x-sells were the real culprit. When I pointed out that x-sells were nothing next to the real scams that have happened in this business to consumers (and I might add without affecting sales)...I was crucified. Mostly by "webmasters" who haven't been in this business half the time I have.

Piracy + economy are the problem. Bottom line is if you can find a paysite that you can make sales on...then push it. They are few and far between these days.

Pete-KT · 08-10-2009, 03:47 PM

If the models didnt expect to be paid 1000+ a scene they there might be more work for them

SifuE · 08-10-2009, 04:10 PM

As I read this all I could think about is ..... shit the girls should have or should be making money off of there dvd's "work" in general lke music and movie stars do.. Porn company owners bitching cause your millions aren't coming in as easy... LMFAO>>.

WarChild · 08-10-2009, 04:13 PM

Who fucking cares? Maybe the "talent" should get a real fucking job, like waiting tables and pumping gas. Fuck 'em.

gideongallery · 08-10-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I guess nobody got the memo from gideongallery:
All the stealing of content is GOOD for the business lol

nope i said if you understood the way to leverage the technology you would make more money.

crying and whining is not leveraging the technology.

Quote:

Or Roald can come on this thread and mock everyone about how great freeones is doing and torrent sites and tubes mean nothing.

he is doing some of the right things.
amazingly there are other things that every single content producer could do to turn content into a true traffic SOURCE, instead of just traffic target.

Quote:

Some of us saw this a couple of years ago and said "Hey, THIS is what's gonna hurt people" Meanwhile the mob was babbling about x-sells that were around for a decade already.

The effects of every studio having their entire catalog available for free and every paysite having their members areas ripped for free plus the economy plus the now widespread knowledge of the torrent sites and illegit tubes = A trickle down effect that is gonna put a major hurt on everybody from talent to shooters to owners.

Well, not all of us. Some of us have worked hard to stop that from happening. And it worked. But for the ones who were unaware, or being misdirected at x-sells and missing the boat...it's big trouble.

marcop · 08-10-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by american pervert

the rise in talent cost is directly proportional to the increase of websites shooting their own stuff. for years the video companies paid as little as possible then the internet companies come in and don't know how to haggle and pay the first price the agent quotes.

Websites shooting their own content certainly contributed to the rise in cost of hiring talent. Several successful website owners thought they could make more money by shooting their own content--by cutting out the middleman: the content producers.

However, I don't think these guys ever accounted for the all the costs involved with shooting (including insurance, locations, models flaking, kill fees, grips, permits, and the hidden costs of in-house employees such as: workman's comp and health insurance (yeah, right), etc.).

One other thing: in-house employees weren't inclined to negotiate with agents who wanted $500 for a bj scene or $1,200 for a b/g scene with one of their models. Why would they? After all, it wasn't their money.

Grapesoda · 08-10-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcop

One other thing: in-house employees weren't inclined to negotiate with agents who wanted $500 for a bj scene or $1,200 for a b/g scene with one of their models. Why would they? After all, it wasn't their money.

this is what did it for sure $.02

LoveSandra · 08-10-2009, 08:36 PM

everybody loves porn

Rochard · 08-10-2009, 08:42 PM

So in the middle of the biggest recession in the past sixty years and someone is complaining that sales are down 20%? That's almost comical.

JFK · 08-10-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveSandra

everybody loves porn

specially "FREE" porn

Robbie · 08-10-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So in the middle of the biggest recession in the past sixty years and someone is complaining that sales are down 20%? That's almost comical.

I think you misread the original post. The "20%" was the amount less of attendance at the AEE show in Vegas, not sales. The figure I hear bandied about by most program owners was 40%, and that was a couple of months ago...I'm betting far worse now.

EscortBiz · 08-10-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I think you misread the original post. The "20%" was the amount less of attendance at the AEE show in Vegas, not sales. The figure I hear bandied about by most program owners was 40%, and that was a couple of months ago...I'm betting far worse now.

its def not better

Thurbs · 08-10-2009, 10:23 PM

lol .. plenty of shooters booking out the "B" or "Starlets" and shooting full scenes for 1400 -> 1500. can imagine why it's hard to book yourself out at the cost of a full scene in this economy.

i guess those couple of programs promising the moon just aren't booking those girls 3x-4x a month as originally promised when the model inflation came to pass.

comical boohoo story too, she's still bringing in $42 USD an hour on that gig, regardless of it being sporadic.

08-10-2009, 10:52 AM	#1
Porno Dan Court Jester Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Budapest Posts: 6,342	LA Times: Tough times in the porn industry; Girls Admit They're Not Working LA Times: Tough times in the porn industry; Girls Admit They're Not Working from www.latimes.com - On a recent Saturday night, Savannah Stern earned $300 to hang out for seven hours at a party in Santa Monica wearing nothing but a feather boa. The veteran of more than 350 hard-core pornography productions took the job to earn extra cash and to network. But the word at the 35th anniversary party for Hustler magazine was not heartening, especially among the roughly 75 other women working there. "At least five girls I haven't seen in a while came up to me and said, 'Savannah, are you working?' " said Stern, who started in the industry four years ago and, like most adult performers, uses a stage name. "I had to say, 'No, not really,' and they all said, 'Yeah, I'm not either.' " The adult entertainment business, centered in the San Fernando Valley, has weathered several recessions since it took off with the advent of home video in the 1980s. But this time the industry is not dealing with just a weakened economy. A growing abundance of free content on the Internet is undercutting consumers' willingness to pay for porn, and with it the ability of many workers to earn a living in the business. For Stern, 23, the rapid decline of job opportunities in the porn business over the last year has been dramatic. She has gone from working four or five days a week to one and now has employers pressuring her to do male-female sex scenes for $700, a 30% discount from the $1,000 fee that used to be the industry standard. Less than two years ago, Stern earned close to $150,000 annually, sometimes turned down work and drove a Mercedes-Benz CLK 350. Now she's aggressively reaching out for jobs and making closer to $50,000 a year. As for that Mercedes? She's replacing it with a used Chevy Trailblazer -- from her parents. "The opportunities in this industry really are disappearing," Stern said. "It's extremely stressful." Industry insiders estimate that since 2007, revenue for most adult production and distribution companies has declined 30% to 50% and the number of new films made has fallen sharply. "We've gone through recessions before, but we've never been hit from every side like this," said Mark Spiegler, head of the Spiegler Girls talent agency, who has worked in porn since 1995. "It's the free stuff that's killing us, and that's not going away," said Dion Jurasso, owner of porn production company Combat Zone, which has seen its business fall about 50% in the last three years. Porn is hardly the only segment of the media industry struggling with these issues. But its problems appear to be more severe. Whereas online piracy has forced big changes in the music industry and is starting to affect movies and television, it has upended adult entertainment. At least five of the 100 top websites in the U.S. are portals for free pornography, referred to in the industry as "tube sites," according to Internet traffic ranking service Alexa .com. Some of their content is amateur work uploaded by users and some is acquired from cheap back catalogs, but much of it is pirated. Sites like Pornhub, YouPorn and RedTube attract more users than TMZ and the Huffington Post. The porn sites are even bigger than Pirate Bay, the top portal for illegal downloads of movies, TV shows and music. Frustratingly for porn producers and distributors in the Valley, none of these sites appears to be making much money. Suzann Knudsen, a marketing director for PornoTube, said the site's parent, Adult Entertainment Broadcast Network, uses it to attract customers for paid video on demand. "PornoTube isn't a piggy bank," she said. "Its true value is in traffic." The adult entertainment business, which was previously in the vanguard of home video, satellite and cable television and digital distribution, now finds itself leading the rest of the entertainment industry in losses from them. "The death of the DVD business has been more accelerated in the adult business than mainstream," said Bill Asher, co-chairman of adult industry giant Vivid Entertainment, who estimates that his company's revenue is down more than 20% this year. "We always said that once the Internet took off, we'd be OK," he added. "It never crossed our minds that we'd be competing with people who just give it away for free." There are plenty of other signs of the porn industry's pain. Attendance at the Adult Entertainment Expo, an annual trade show in Las Vegas that's open some days to the public, was down 20% this year. Pay-per-view programming, a key revenue source for the industry, has fallen about 50% from its peak three or four years ago, according to a person familiar with the cable and satellite TV business. Reliable revenue and employment figures for the adult industry don't exist, since no analysts or economists track it. Adult Video News estimated in 2006 that it was worth $13 billion, but Paul Fishbein, editor of the trade publication, said the number was "an educated guess." "Almost all of the companies in our industry are privately held, and they keep the cards close to their chests," said Diane Duke, executive director of the Free Speech Coalition, an industry trade group. The effects of the downturn have been felt most severely by the thousands of people who work in the adult entertainment business. Kelly Labanco doesn't need industry estimates to know what's happening. The makeup artist, who has worked in porn for five years, is landing half as many jobs as she did a year ago and has seen her pay drop from a high of $250 an hour to less than $100. "A lot of companies say they don't even need makeup artists now and the girls can do it themselves," said Labanco, who has returned to her previous job doing freelance music publicity to pay the bills. Even the industry's biggest events aren't worth what they used to be for working people like Labanco. Last year, she and a friend did makeup for a week at the Adult Entertainment Expo and earned $8,000. This year: $1,200. Caroline Pierce, an adult film performer who lives in Las Vegas but flies to Los Angeles for work, said many companies have pressured her to do more scenes for less money. "Instead of paying you $800 to do one, they'll pay you $1,200 for both," she explained. As economic pressures increase, many performers have also changed their minds about what they are willing do on-screen. Previously, women earned hefty bonuses for unusual sex scenes. That's often no longer the case. "A few years ago the girls we got were OK, but not stellar models, and we were sometimes paying $2,500," said porn director Matt Morningwood, referring to a website he shoots for that features one woman and multiple male partners. "Nowadays some of the top-tier models will do that scene for us and you're looking at maybe $1,800. I'm happy for the production, but I feel bad for exploiting the girls' situation." The only growth market most executives see is mobile devices, since they let consumers watch porn anywhere and in relative privacy. Major companies that serve as a gateway to content on cellphones in the U.S. such as Verizon don't allow explicit adult content. But like cable and satellite companies in the 1990s, they may change their minds when they see the potential profit. "Anyone betting against porn being a meaningful driver of traffic and revenue on mobile networks would be making a bad choice based on history," said Charles Golvin, an analyst at Forrester Research. Adult performers with big followings probably will continue to prosper, since they often work under a guaranteed contract and have loyal fans who buy all their work. Business managers for Belladonna and Tera Patrick, two of the industry's biggest stars, said their clients were using their celebrity to make money in other ways, like dancing in exotic clubs and licensing their name to sex toys and lingerie. "The economy has forced us to look in other directions such as tangible goods," said Evan Seinfeld, who co-manages Patrick, his wife, and runs her production company, Teravision. But for the "middle class" of the industry, those opportunities don't exist. "It seems at this point that if you haven't established a well-known name, it's really hard to keep working," performer Alexa Jordan said. Savannah Stern [pictured] is adjusting to that reality. She's shooting scenes for her own subscription website and planning a tour of exotic dance clubs to earn money from her name while she can. After that, she hopes to go to college for an interior design degree and work in her family's real estate development and contracting business. "I wish I would have never gotten into it," Stern said of her career in porn. "When you get used to a certain lifestyle, it's really hard to cut back and realize this may not be forever." __________________ Reality TV Star, AVN Hall of Fame, Five-Time XBIZ Winner 2021 XBIZ Europe Winner Best Director Site Promote the sites where members get paid to get laid by their favorite porn stars

08-10-2009, 10:54 AM	#2
C H R I S Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Marina Del Rey Posts: 10,845	It was a great party. Dan we need to do our part tp keep these girls working. __________________ C H R I S Retired Porn Veteran BH4L

08-10-2009, 10:56 AM	#3
american pervert Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,811	boo hoo.. when i started girls were getting $600 for b/g and $700 for b/g anal and the guys around $100-150 per scene .. bring back those rates and they will get more work again. __________________ I can resist everything except temptation

08-10-2009, 11:07 AM	#7
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	yeah but every content shooter says he never shot this much in his life its no surprise thou __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

08-10-2009, 11:08 AM	#8
american pervert Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,811	what's funny is these stupid girls went and out and leased/bought cars they didn't need or could really afford and bought purses, clothes and other status items which won't help pay their bills. glad they are learning the hard way. __________________ I can resist everything except temptation

08-10-2009, 10:57 AM	#5
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	i'm hoping that the price of hookers goes down as well...

08-10-2009, 11:05 AM	#6
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	capitalism is a bitch when you're on the other side.

08-10-2009, 11:34 AM	#13
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,845	I guess nobody got the memo from gideongallery: All the stealing of content is GOOD for the business lol Or Roald can come on this thread and mock everyone about how great freeones is doing and torrent sites and tubes mean nothing. Some of us saw this a couple of years ago and said "Hey, THIS is what's gonna hurt people" Meanwhile the mob was babbling about x-sells that were around for a decade already. The effects of every studio having their entire catalog available for free and every paysite having their members areas ripped for free plus the economy plus the now widespread knowledge of the torrent sites and illegit tubes = A trickle down effect that is gonna put a major hurt on everybody from talent to shooters to owners. Well, not all of us. Some of us have worked hard to stop that from happening. And it worked. But for the ones who were unaware, or being misdirected at x-sells and missing the boat...it's big trouble. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

08-10-2009, 11:49 AM	#15
NemesisEnforcer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vegas and Los Angeles Posts: 2,122	It's been like this all year. I have girls calling saying they will do a B/G scene with their boyfriend or husband for $300 total, more if it's with another guy. Unfortunately, I've already shot them and I don't need the material. Some of them are living in hotels because they were evicted and need money right away. It's truly sad. I'm shooting a girl next week for free for herself so that she can try and sell the content to make money. If anyone needs any content, I will steer then your way. If you want, I will shoot it for free to get the girls some cash.

08-10-2009, 12:11 PM	#16
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,315	I often wonder why anyone would do porn... Why not become an affiliate and make much more cash? Mainly because these people aren't too bright to begin with.

08-10-2009, 12:38 PM	#17
DaddyHalbucks A freakin' legend! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada USA Posts: 18,976	It sounds like the talent girls were spending too much in the good times.. __________________ Boner Money

08-10-2009, 12:57 PM	#18
XPays Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Inside the most accurately counting and reporting affiliate system in the world at XPays.com Posts: 13,002	dmca needs to be changed asap. once it is, we will have a super crop of porn junkies to sell to on a bigger scale than ever before. __________________ InterNext Expo Domain Auction Live Now thru Feb 5 HuntingMoon GFY Domains Marketplace is LIVE XPays always pays! Top Site: * RealJasmine.com * + HotelHeiress® with The Paris Hilton Sex Video Insert the HotelHeiress® HD FEED into your members areas XPin.com Opening for Pin Partners Soonish Mainstream Offers For Emailers and DomainersNONADULT.COM Like Us!

08-10-2009, 12:58 PM	#19
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,323	That explains why Nikki Benz open up her ass for traffic. __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

08-10-2009, 01:05 PM	#21
RyuLion ClubDomCash.com Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 32,094	I have some work for them.. __________________ Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995

08-10-2009, 01:15 PM	#22
JamesK hi Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 16,731	nice more exposure for the tubes __________________ M3Server - NATS Hosting

08-10-2009, 01:24 PM	#24
Roald SecretFriends.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: IMC Headquarters Posts: 27,861	BTW Dan, had a chat today about Berlin. Interested for sure just need to know a few things. Will drop you a line this week! __________________ WE ARE BUYING PAY SITES! CONTACT ME ClubSweethearts \| ManUpFilms \| SinfulXXX \| HOT * AdultPrime * HOT Paying webmasters since 1996! Contact: r.riepen @ sansylgroup.com \| skype:roaldr \| icq:

08-10-2009, 01:41 PM	#26
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,399	For a few years, I think rates got very unrealistically inflated for talent. There were a huge number of new people entering the business who had no idea how to do the math and who had big fantasy dollar signs in their eyes. Now that a lot of the hopefuls have fallen by the wayside and the economy is so difficult, the hopefuls have mostly given up and shuttered their businesses and the going concerns are minding their costs and are not going to match the fantasy rates of people who erroneously think they are going to make those dollars back later. __________________ Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

08-10-2009, 01:54 PM	#28
CIVMatt Amateur Pimpin Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 13,075	We pay half the rates you guys do, so tell them to suck it up __________________ Make easy money with Webcams

08-10-2009, 02:09 PM	#30
SGS Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mallorca - Nottingham Posts: 5,176	Over the last few years model rates have become totally unrealistic and those who don't accept an "adjustment" don't get booked. Business is business. __________________ See sig...

08-10-2009, 02:13 PM	#31
dirtymind Confirmed User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,348	well prices had to drop one day. I am still amazed how many different girls are doing porn. it unbelievable. With so many working you always see the price lowering when the demand is bigger then the need. but seems to be good for us pay site owners. Except for the stolen content and such. I am not sure that will ever go right again. __________________ skype: codercarlos

08-10-2009, 02:43 PM	#37
TheAmericanCannibal Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,078	How do we get Porno Dan to stop working? If porn is so dead how is he still alive?

08-10-2009, 03:47 PM	#39
Pete-KT Workin With The Devil Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 51,532	If the models didnt expect to be paid 1000+ a scene they there might be more work for them

08-10-2009, 04:10 PM	#40
SifuE Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 877	As I read this all I could think about is ..... shit the girls should have or should be making money off of there dvd's "work" in general lke music and movie stars do.. Porn company owners bitching cause your millions aren't coming in as easy... LMFAO>>. __________________ I.C.Q 360-553-673

08-10-2009, 04:13 PM	#41
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	Who fucking cares? Maybe the "talent" should get a real fucking job, like waiting tables and pumping gas. Fuck 'em. __________________ .

08-10-2009, 08:36 PM	#45
LoveSandra So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Just Blow Me Posts: 10,551	everybody loves porn

08-10-2009, 08:42 PM	#46
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 70,970	So in the middle of the biggest recession in the past sixty years and someone is complaining that sales are down 20%? That's almost comical. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

08-10-2009, 10:23 PM	#50
Thurbs The Thrilla in Manila Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Thurbs' Lagoon, Christmas Island Posts: 4,785	lol .. plenty of shooters booking out the "B" or "Starlets" and shooting full scenes for 1400 -> 1500. can imagine why it's hard to book yourself out at the cost of a full scene in this economy. i guess those couple of programs promising the moon just aren't booking those girls 3x-4x a month as originally promised when the model inflation came to pass. comical boohoo story too, she's still bringing in $42 USD an hour on that gig, regardless of it being sporadic.