My thinking about Health care.

[theking]

I am a believer in free enterprise with competition being a driving force...but regulated free enterprise.

1. Insurance companies should be required to allow anyone that can pay for their policy...without preconditions...to purchase a policy.

2. Insurance companies should be required to pay for whatever medical procedures your doctor/doctors determine you may need without...preconditions.

2. States regulate what insurance companies can operate within the State. This should not be allowed. All insurance companies...domestic and non domestic...should be allowed to operate across States...in all states.

3. If one is so poor that one cannot afford to purchase ANY private insurance from any insurance company then there should be government subsidized insurance available for purchase...with one having to pay whatever percentage of their income it is determined that they can afford to pay and still meet necessary needs.

4. All people...from 18 up...should be required to purchase either private insurance or public subsidized insurance.

5. The cost of medical procedures and medicines should be regulated...in a manner that would still encourage R&D.

I think when the dust settles...which would certainly take a period of time...this would be better than having a total socializtion of health care...which I am not in favor of.

[theking]

Of course getting the Congress to do battle with the insurance companies...pharmaceutical...States and AMA...is another story.

[Dirty Lord]

well...i dont agree!

[theking]

Originally Posted by Dirty Lord

well...i dont agree!

Are you in favor of total socialization of heath care...or just have different thinking about health care?

[marcjacob]

That sounds pretty sensible to me. America has a good system of health care and you shouldn't re-invent the wheel. You just need 100% coverage and insurance costs to come WAY down. If you get these two things you don't need universal health care. Regulating drug and treatment costs would do bring costs down. I would go further and regulate the cost of insurance premiums, but maybe that's too lefty for most Americans.

[tranza]

Originally Posted by theking

Are you in favor of total socialization of heath care...or just have different thinking about health care?

Different way about health care I think...

[Sausage]

Not having a public system just still blows my mind. A badly government run public system will still do better than a system driven by profit hands down.

Though not really sure thats the issue for you guys... its more a case of your insurance companies, drug companies etc just totally out of control. Until you reign in the profit driven health sector, and cut them out of the political system like a cancer is cut out of the body ... nothing will improve. It's not going to be easy, and it looks like they have too much influence over there for that to happen, but you guys really do deserve better.

[theking]

Originally Posted by marcjacob

That sounds pretty sensible to me. America has a good system of health care and you shouldn't re-invent the wheel. You just need 100% coverage and insurance costs to come WAY down. If you get these two things you don't need universal health care. Regulating drug and treatment costs would do bring costs down. I would go further and regulate the cost of insurance premiums, but maybe that's too lefty for most Americans.

Well insurance companies/free enterprise are entitled to make a profit and I think if cross state competition were allowed it would get the price of a policy down to where many more could afford to purchase than do. Also the requirement that all must purchase insurance (there are many that can actually afford insurance but do not purchase it for whatever their reasons) would bring in a larger customer base and should help to reduce the premium costs.

[theking]

One thing I left off is one should be allowed to deduct the cost of ones insurance from ones taxes.

[Fletch XXX]

this is funny. someone who got free health care because he claimed an injury in military claiming socialized health care isnt good.

aint that a bitch? LOL

be glad we paid for your surgery speedbump

[pornguy]

Funny thing.. The Doctors in the US might want to face South and learn some lessons. Some already have, and are making a KILLING with the money.

IN Mexico, a PRIVATE Doctor in this private office is a 40$ visit.. And they dont walk in look in your mouth and walk out. they spend time with you and on average still see 3 or 4 people in an hour. then when they send you to the pharmacy the paper they hand you has the address of one that they will tell you has the best price.. And Its amazing that the doctor, or a group he is in, owns that pharmacy. And do you need blood drawn, well, go to this lab, and guess what. He or his group own that as well. They dont take insurance and most of them make damn good money.

[pornguy]

Double post. Sorry about that

[theking]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

this is funny. someone who got free health care because he claimed an injury in military claiming socialized health care isnt good.

aint that a bitch? LOL

be glad we paid for your surgery speedbump

I did not claim an injury...I was operated on multiple times while on active duty...died on the operating table more than once...and of course I have the use of the VA as part of the obligation owed me by the government and every citizen that I served. I earned it the hard way kid...and as far as taxes go I am satisfied that I have long ago paid more in taxes than you will pay in your entire lifetime...thank you very much.

BTW...have you quit painting your fingernails now that you are going to be a father?

[Fletch XXX]

the fact you think just becuse you "served" in the military means you deserve free health care is amazing. You didnt get a limb blown off, you hurt yourself lifting a box LOL

just sit back and think the rest of us owe you a life of free health care becuase you didnt go to college and get a real job, its worst than welfare imho.

as i said, be glad we pay so you can sit on your ass and not have to work anymore, and we pay for your meds, and we pay for your surgery.

amazing.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by theking

Well insurance companies/free enterprise are entitled to make a profit and I think if cross state competition were allowed it would get the price of a policy down to where many more could afford to purchase than do. Also the requirement that all must purchase insurance (there are many that can actually afford insurance but do not purchase it for whatever their reasons) would bring in a larger customer base and should help to reduce the premium costs.

you don't understand how health insurance companies run. Do a little google search on "wendell potter" he'll give you the skinny on how the insurance companies make their profits.

anything short of dismantling the insurance companies is not reform.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

you don't understand how health insurance companies run. .

of course he doesnt, the guy has never paid for his own health care LOL

only on gfy, someone who uses socialized health care will make more than one thread (two today alone) about socialized health care being a bad idea

he's in every health care thread and makes his own, meanwhile, we are paying for him everytime he goes to the doc . buahaha

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by theking

(there are many that can actually afford insurance but do not purchase it for whatever their reasons)

When you turn a certain age, have a family history of cancer and heart problems, don't belong to a group, NOBODY wants to insure you!

Doesn't matter if you have PAID FOR PREMIUM COVERAGE FOR 25 PREVIOUS YEARS AND NEVER HAD A CLAIM! Now/today you are considered high-risk ... That is my reason for not having coverage.

With the amount I paid Blue Cross over the years I should be getting covered for free.


.

[Darkland]

Originally Posted by theking

4. All people...from 18 up...should be required to purchase either private insurance or public subsidized insurance.

Fuck that bullshit. In the last 15 years I have been to the doctor maybe 5 or 6 times. Part of that time I was paying insurance monthly and just two months of payments cost more than my combined fucking visits. In the last 10 or 12 years I have had no insurance and 2 visits in that time. One was expensive and I payed out of my pocket over time with billing. But guess fucking what. IT WAS STILL CHEAPER THAN IF I HAD PAID MONTHLY FOR THE SAME GOD DAMN TIME PERIOD.

Insurance has always been a fucking scam. Take my car insurance. I have been driving for close to 25 years and have paid a monthly insurance so other motherfuckers can use that money for their accidents because guess fucking what? That's right! In all those years I have had one wreck. ONE! And I have forked over thousands upon thousands over all those years and if I die without another wreck or need to call on them they might as well have just come to my house, stuck a gun in my face and took the money.

BULLSHIT!!!

[theking]

Anymore input?

[kane]

I just read an interesting article on this. Basically, this person suggests that the government enact laws that would allow every insurance company to sell policies in every state which would increase competition. Then he suggests that employers stop offering health insurance to their employees and instead give them the 12K a year average they are spending on health insurance for them as a salary increase. Then that person takes the money and goes out on the open market and buys a policy. That 12K can be tax free/deductible if they spend it on insurance. If the government wants to subsidize for the poor they can institute a program where they help pay for coverage.

He then suggests that insurance programs only cover catastrophic things and that doctor visits (to some degree prescriptions) and even short visits to the hospital be paid out of pocket. His idea is that the average family of four doesn't spend 12K a year on medicine/doctor visits. So they pay for coverage for major things, pay the rest out of pocket and they still would come out ahead.

More importantly this would lower costs of health care. The reason prices go up is that people don't care what it costs because they aren't paying the bill. If you go to the doctor for something they bill your insurance and while you may see how much the bill was, you don't care because it is not coming out of your pocket. When it is, you will demand better pricing. He sites Lasik surgery as a great example. This surgery is not covered by most insurance programs so you pay it out of pocket and the cost of it has dropped dramatically since it came onto the market. Much the same should than happen in other ends of health care. For example if you pay your doctor $150 for a visit and he steps in, asks you three questions, listens to your lungs and heart, looks down your throat and in your ears then leaves and is in the room for five minutes, you might feel like you are not getting your moneys worth. If another doctor spends more time with you and gives you better service and charges $90 you will probably end up switching and the previous doctor may have to lower his price or change the type of service he provides to hold onto customers.

Of course the potential downfall of this system is that most people when given this extra money would buy the cheapest insurance they could and spend the rest. So when their kids got sick and needed to see a doctor they wouldn't have the cash and we end up back in a situation where people get service, but end up not paying for it.

Anyway, it is an interesting read.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/ here is the rest of it.

[Sid70]

Preconditions is the biggest crap i heard. EVER.

[gwidomains]

Nationalized insurance -- privatized health services.

There's simply no reason for a private health insurance industry -- co-ops will not work, b/c as soon as they reap cost savings from lowered executive compensation there will be a push to privatize them. Taht's what has happened to non-profit health insurance companies of any size.

Consider that CEO's in the U.S. make substantially more than Europe and it has very little to do with performance and everything to do with a culture that rewards mediocracy at the top of many large private and publicaly traded companies.

[DonovanTrent]

Originally Posted by kane

He then suggests that insurance programs only cover catastrophic things and that doctor visits (to some degree prescriptions) and even short visits to the hospital be paid out of pocket. His idea is that the average family of four doesn't spend 12K a year on medicine/doctor visits. So they pay for coverage for major things, pay the rest out of pocket and they still would come out ahead.

This is the most important facet of that idea. We've become spoiled to thinking that health insurance is something it really isn't. Car insurance doesn't pay for an oil change, health insurance shouldn't cover a checkup.

[Exotic Gold]

Originally Posted by theking

I am a believer in free enterprise with competition being a driving force...but regulated free enterprise.

1. Insurance companies should be required to allow anyone that can pay for their policy...without preconditions...to purchase a policy.

2. Insurance companies should be required to pay for whatever medical procedures your doctor/doctors determine you may need without...preconditions.

2. States regulate what insurance companies can operate within the State. This should not be allowed. All insurance companies...domestic and non domestic...should be allowed to operate across States...in all states.

3. If one is so poor that one cannot afford to purchase ANY private insurance from any insurance company then there should be government subsidized insurance available for purchase...with one having to pay whatever percentage of their income it is determined that they can afford to pay and still meet necessary needs.

4. All people...from 18 up...should be required to purchase either private insurance or public subsidized insurance.

5. The cost of medical procedures and medicines should be regulated...in a manner that would still encourage R&D.

I think when the dust settles...which would certainly take a period of time...this would be better than having a total socializtion of health care...which I am not in favor of.

So basically you want the same thing as the Obama administration.

[TheSenator]

Health care should not be for profit.

[gwidomains]

That sounds quite interesting from your assesment -- too long won't read article.

I think it is an astute observation that insurance distorts the whole health care industry by decreasing competition for services -- as someone was saying in Mexico doctor's visits are substantially cheaper, and large-scale medical procedures are about 1/10 of the cost in medical tourist areas.

If I had millions to invest, I'd make a Mexican/Carribean private hospital and lobby the government for favorable visa status to docs from around the world.

Charge 1/4 the price for treatments and try to strike deals with U.S. non-profit insurance companies for referrals on treatments they dont' officially cover.

Originally Posted by kane

I just read an interesting article on this. Basically, this person suggests that the government enact laws that would allow every insurance company to sell policies in every state which would increase competition. Then he suggests that employers stop offering health insurance to their employees and instead give them the 12K a year average they are spending on health insurance for them as a salary increase. Then that person takes the money and goes out on the open market and buys a policy. That 12K can be tax free/deductible if they spend it on insurance. If the government wants to subsidize for the poor they can institute a program where they help pay for coverage.

He then suggests that insurance programs only cover catastrophic things and that doctor visits (to some degree prescriptions) and even short visits to the hospital be paid out of pocket. His idea is that the average family of four doesn't spend 12K a year on medicine/doctor visits. So they pay for coverage for major things, pay the rest out of pocket and they still would come out ahead.

More importantly this would lower costs of health care. The reason prices go up is that people don't care what it costs because they aren't paying the bill. If you go to the doctor for something they bill your insurance and while you may see how much the bill was, you don't care because it is not coming out of your pocket. When it is, you will demand better pricing. He sites Lasik surgery as a great example. This surgery is not covered by most insurance programs so you pay it out of pocket and the cost of it has dropped dramatically since it came onto the market. Much the same should than happen in other ends of health care. For example if you pay your doctor $150 for a visit and he steps in, asks you three questions, listens to your lungs and heart, looks down your throat and in your ears then leaves and is in the room for five minutes, you might feel like you are not getting your moneys worth. If another doctor spends more time with you and gives you better service and charges $90 you will probably end up switching and the previous doctor may have to lower his price or change the type of service he provides to hold onto customers.

Of course the potential downfall of this system is that most people when given this extra money would buy the cheapest insurance they could and spend the rest. So when their kids got sick and needed to see a doctor they wouldn't have the cash and we end up back in a situation where people get service, but end up not paying for it.

Anyway, it is an interesting read.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/ here is the rest of it.

[Exotic Gold]

Originally Posted by theking

I am a believer in free enterprise with competition being a driving force...but regulated free enterprise.

This is basically why all Republicans are stupid. Yes, all of you Republicans I just called you stupid. Because you are.

A BMW dealership is free enterprise. They sell BMWs to people who want them, nobody needs one and thus can make a free decision on where to buy and how much to pay. If you go to Beverly Hills there are a lot of dealerships. If you go to Bismark, SD, there are next to none. If my neighbor buys a BMW or does not it has no effect on me.

Healthcare is an expense that can arrive without warning and you have no choice but to purchase it. If a drunk douchebag runs over my foot in a parking lot and takes off, what am I to do? Shop around? Negotiate one ambulance against another?

I need it now, I have no ability to make any decision as to what vendor I will choose and thus, not free enterprise. If my neighbor has no health care and comes over to borrow a cup of sugar and coughs on me, great now I have his strep throat or flu.

So in a country as wealthy as America every single person in the nation should have healthcare for all issue great and tiny and we should find a way to pay for it.

[kane]

Originally Posted by DonovanTrent

This is the most important facet of that idea. We've become spoiled to thinking that health insurance is something it really isn't. Car insurance doesn't pay for an oil change, health insurance shouldn't cover a checkup.

Yep, a good example is a friend of mine that right now is going through a hip problem. she had to get a cortisone shot and do physical therapy. The physical therapy is like $180 a session and they have her going twice a week for the next six weeks. It will end up costing over 2K. She doesn't care and just went to the place closest to her house because she isn't paying the bill. You can bet if she was paying the bill she would shop around.

Another point the article makes that is interesting is that much rumored Death Panels that the Obama plan would have. Supposedly these would be panels that determine if a person is too sick or old to warrant a treatment. The example they give is having a 80 year old woman with Alzheimer undergo an open heart bypass. right now most families would not hesitate to have it done because it could give her another 1-2 years to live, but if they were paying the bill maybe they wouldn't. He actually suggests when you put the money into the hands of the families they will make much more brutal decisions than any panel ever would have.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Exotic Gold

This is basically why all Republicans are stupid. Yes, all of you Republicans I just called you stupid. Because you are.

A BMW dealership is free enterprise. They sell BMWs to people who want them, nobody needs one and thus can make a free decision on where to buy and how much to pay. If you go to Beverly Hills there are a lot of dealerships. If you go to Bismark, SD, there are next to none. If my neighbor buys a BMW or does not it has no effect on me.

Healthcare is an expense that can arrive without warning and you have no choice but to purchase it. If a drunk douchebag runs over my foot in a parking lot and takes off, what am I to do? Shop around? Negotiate one ambulance against another?

I need it now, I have no ability to make any decision as to what vendor I will choose and thus, not free enterprise. If my neighbor has no health care and comes over to borrow a cup of sugar and coughs on me, great now I have his strep throat or flu.

So in a country as wealthy as America every single person in the nation should have healthcare for all issue great and tiny and we should find a way to pay for it.

I think his idea is that if there is actual competition when it comes to health care you can choose (like what doctor you want for your regular check-ups and visits to be with and what surgeon or hospital you want if you need something done and have time to make a decision) it will lower costs across the board. So when you need an ambulance ride or you end up in the ER in an emergency situation the costs across the board will be lower no matter where you go. You didn't choose them right then, but many others had chosen them (or someone else) when they had the chance to and the competition drives the prices down.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Exotic Gold

This is basically why all Republicans are stupid. Yes, all of you Republicans I just called you stupid. Because you are.

A BMW dealership is free enterprise. They sell BMWs to people who want them, nobody needs one and thus can make a free decision on where to buy and how much to pay. If you go to Beverly Hills there are a lot of dealerships. If you go to Bismark, SD, there are next to none. If my neighbor buys a BMW or does not it has no effect on me.

Healthcare is an expense that can arrive without warning and you have no choice but to purchase it. If a drunk douchebag runs over my foot in a parking lot and takes off, what am I to do? Shop around? Negotiate one ambulance against another?

I need it now, I have no ability to make any decision as to what vendor I will choose and thus, not free enterprise. If my neighbor has no health care and comes over to borrow a cup of sugar and coughs on me, great now I have his strep throat or flu.

So in a country as wealthy as America every single person in the nation should have healthcare for all issue great and tiny and we should find a way to pay for it.

If you are inferring that I am a Republican...I am not and I have never been a Republican.

[Holly]

Originally Posted by theking

If you are inferring that I am a Republican...I am not and I have never been a Republican.

I am inferring that you are a pathological liar.

Just think- if it wasn't for all that free government VA health care, you might not have lived long enough to fake your death on the internet.

You're welcome.

[theking]

Anymore input?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

this is funny. someone who got free health care because he claimed an injury in military claiming socialized health care isnt good.

aint that a bitch? LOL

be glad we paid for your surgery speedbump

You are so far out of line it isn't even funny. He is a fucking veteran. He EARNED that health care. You are pretty fucked up if you actually believe your bullshit.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by TheSenator

Health care should not be for profit.

I am sure I have mentioned this before, but just in case, you're an idiot.

[mule]

Originally Posted by theking

I died on the operating table more than once...

To die more than once has become quite a habit of yours, pathfinder

[TheSenator]

Originally Posted by baddog

I am sure I have mentioned this before, but just in case, you're an idiot.

I wish you well and hope you or your family never have health care issues or get denied.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by TheSenator

I wish you well and hope you or your family never have health care issues or get denied.

Actually, I believe that it is only due to the fact that medicine is a for profit enterprise that most illnesses are even treatable.

If you think the government is going to be spending money on R&D you are truly delusional.

[marcjacob]

Originally Posted by Darkland

Fuck that bullshit. In the last 15 years I have been to the doctor maybe 5 or 6 times. Part of that time I was paying insurance monthly and just two months of payments cost more than my combined fucking visits. In the last 10 or 12 years I have had no insurance and 2 visits in that time. One was expensive and I payed out of my pocket over time with billing. But guess fucking what. IT WAS STILL CHEAPER THAN IF I HAD PAID MONTHLY FOR THE SAME GOD DAMN TIME PERIOD.

Insurance has always been a fucking scam. Take my car insurance. I have been driving for close to 25 years and have paid a monthly insurance so other motherfuckers can use that money for their accidents because guess fucking what? That's right! In all those years I have had one wreck. ONE! And I have forked over thousands upon thousands over all those years and if I die without another wreck or need to call on them they might as well have just come to my house, stuck a gun in my face and took the money.

BULLSHIT!!!

This is why insurance cost should be regulated. Even if everyone had to have insurance, companies would probably have prices the same as they are making a killing out of it. In the UK they can offer you full private coverage for $60 -$100 a month and still make money.

I admit this is a lefty view but I'm proudly centre-left (which doesn't mean communist btw, only Americans think it does - it means believing in capitalism but not allowing the old or sick to slip beneath a minimum standard of living.)

You are correct though, insurance is usually a scam. Most people would be better putting money aside each month in a savings account with a decent interest rate.

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

the fact you think just becuse you "served" in the military means you deserve free health care is amazing. You didnt get a limb blown off, you hurt yourself lifting a box LOL

just sit back and think the rest of us owe you a life of free health care becuase you didnt go to college and get a real job, its worst than welfare imho.

as i said, be glad we pay so you can sit on your ass and not have to work anymore, and we pay for your meds, and we pay for your surgery.

amazing.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by theking

I am a believer in free enterprise with competition being a driving force...but regulated free enterprise.

1. Insurance companies should be required to allow anyone that can pay for their policy...without preconditions...to purchase a policy.

2. Insurance companies should be required to pay for whatever medical procedures your doctor/doctors determine you may need without...preconditions.

2. States regulate what insurance companies can operate within the State. This should not be allowed. All insurance companies...domestic and non domestic...should be allowed to operate across States...in all states.

3. If one is so poor that one cannot afford to purchase ANY private insurance from any insurance company then there should be government subsidized insurance available for purchase...with one having to pay whatever percentage of their income it is determined that they can afford to pay and still meet necessary needs.

4. All people...from 18 up...should be required to purchase either private insurance or public subsidized insurance.

5. The cost of medical procedures and medicines should be regulated...in a manner that would still encourage R&D.

I think when the dust settles...which would certainly take a period of time...this would be better than having a total socializtion of health care...which I am not in favor of.

This is EXACTLY what is proposed...

Originally Posted by theking

3. If one is so poor that one cannot afford to purchase ANY private insurance from any insurance company then there should be government subsidized insurance available for purchase...with one having to pay whatever percentage of their income it is determined that they can afford to pay and still meet necessary needs.

This is exactly the public option that has been proposed.