can sponsors shave if you use intellichat?

[jcsike]

from this thread last week, it was made pretty clear that if you use intellichat + nats, and lets say your an affiliate sending revshare, any surfer that clicks an intellichat button (or back i think, not positive on that) gets the intellichat cookie set overriding their code and no credit

has this gotten fixed yet? i know my ratios have gone to hell and if this is the cause, im going to be really pissed

nats said they were planning on making some changes in that thread, any progress? comments from intellichat or nats?

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by jcsike

any surfer that clicks an intellichat button (or back i think, not positive on that) gets the intellichat cookie set overriding their code and no credit

fyi, this is true

Originally Posted by intellichat

A campaign will only have this active if the company has asked for it .

[Carmine Raguso]

Originally Posted by jcsike

fyi, this is true

[robwod]

Originally Posted by jcsike

from this thread last week, it was made pretty clear that if you use intellichat + nats, and lets say your an affiliate sending revshare, any surfer that clicks an intellichat button (or back i think, not positive on that) gets the intellichat cookie set overriding their code and no credit

has this gotten fixed yet? i know my ratios have gone to hell and if this is the cause, im going to be really pissed

nats said they were planning on making some changes in that thread, any progress? comments from intellichat or nats?

Just to be clear on what it was I noticed. When I was checking... an exit chat popup was initiated for sponsors who had it active, revshare links or otherwise. In the exit chat, there's this big "Click Here" with some "enticing" join for cheap offer. You don't know what it is exactly until you click, so of course curiosity gets the person to click. At that point, the affiliate's id is "modified". If the surfer buys, both IC and the surfer gets credit.

Insofar as I am aware, until NATS makes the change, any surfer that has clicked the "click here" link in the exit pop and leaves the site, also leaves with the modified cookie.

I am still waiting for sponsors to speak up with regards to what programs are running it on affiliate links.

[whatif_3]

Originally Posted by robwod

Just to be clear on what it was I noticed. When I was checking... an exit chat popup was initiated for sponsors who had it active, revshare links or otherwise. In the exit chat, there's this big "Click Here" with some "enticing" join for cheap offer. You don't know what it is exactly until you click, so of course curiosity gets the person to click. At that point, the affiliate's id is jacked, or as is more politically correct, "modified". If the surfer buys, both IC and the surfer gets credit.

Insofar as I am aware, until NATS makes the change, any surfer that has clicked the "click here" link in the exit pop and leaves the site, also leaves with the modified cookie.

thats fucked up, surfers click those things all the time

what sponsors use intellichat? who has a list? i want to see if im promoting any of them

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by Carmine Raguso

no image there man

[count of monte cristo]

i think rude.com uses intellichat

[stickyfingerz]

It should only be being used on NON affiliate tours.

[gandalfuy]

interesting...

[robwod]

Originally Posted by whatif_3

what sponsors use intellichat? who has a list? i want to see if im promoting any of them

I've asked several times for IC to indicate who uses it, or for sponsors to say they use it. For a tool that supposedly everyone loves -- program owners and affiliates alike -- there certainly seems to be some secretiveness surrounding its depth of penetration within the affiliate program space.

IC takes the position that the clientele is private. I wonder, however, if it is indeed still private during the sales pitch to other program owners.

[robwod]

Originally Posted by robwod

offer. You don't know what it is exactly until you click, so of course curiosity gets the person to click. At that point, the affiliate's id is "modified".

Oops, just saw a typo in my earlier post. I meant to say the affiliate COOKIE is modified, according to both NATS and Billy, the IC rep, from that other thread. The affiliate ID is not what is modified, just the cookie. It's a shame that this board doesn't let you edit your posts after what.. 30 seconds?

[count of monte cristo]

Originally Posted by robwod

I've asked several times for IC to indicate who uses it, or for sponsors to say they use it. For a tool that supposedly everyone loves -- program owners and affiliates alike -- there certainly seems to be some secretiveness surrounding its depth of penetration within the affiliate program space.

IC takes the position that the clientele is private. I wonder, however, if it is indeed still private during the sales pitch to other program owners.

sounds like a straight up shaving tool to me, cant think of any other reason a program would set that up to override the affiliates cookie on the back button

how many customers go to the signup form to look at prices (many sponsors dont show price), then click back to look at the content again?

when that happens, your cookie gets overwritten and you lose that customer forever, right?

[robwod]

Originally Posted by count of monte cristo

when that happens, your cookie gets overwritten and you lose that customer forever, right?

No, my understanding is that the cookie is modified to include the IC reference. Then if a surfer buys, now or comes back later, s/he is given that same special offer and the affiliate gets his or her share on the discounted price.

NATS is apparently working with IC to change it to allow the affiliate to retain his/her original cookie, unmodified, if the surfer leaves versus leaving with the modified cookie.

[TMM_John]

Copied from another thread:

Just to clarify things..

The affiliate id is NOT overwritten in the cookie. You do not lose credit for the sale.

When they click the IC link in the chat window the cookie is changed to be for the Intellichat offer (say a discounted price or a special trial offer).

We are modifying the integration to allow the program owner to choose whether the IC offer persists for the cookie lifetime or only for the browser sessions. If they choose the cookie lifetime the surfer will receive the IC offer if they revisit the site by typing in the URL. If the user clicks one of your links again your cookie would be re-established without the IC offer. If they choose the session lifetime the IC offer will only be available to them for that browser session. The cookie isn't modified at all and they would have to click the IC chat link again to be able to receive the offer on a subsequent visit.

To simplify, affiliate codes are NOT overwritten. The only change to the cookie is to offer the IC discount. Currently, if the surfer were to return to the paysite (WITHOUT clicking one of your links) they would still receive the IC offer and you will still be the affiliate and get credit. We're modifying the integration to allow the paysite owner to make this offer only last for the browser session.

jcsike, I'd like to ask that you retract your statement that sales are being stolen or shaved, as they are not.

[HowlingWulf]

I don't know. This is the response I got from one sponsor using intellichat:

Support at 20 May 2009 06:49

Webmaster not get credit for intellchat sales, its not possible to make technically.

1439772 at 17 May 2009 06:35

Just noticed this intellichat on exit which offers a special discount link
https://www.intellichat.com/tracking...=608&chatID =
Do
webmasters get credit for this?

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by TMM_John

Copied from another thread:


jcsike, I'd like to ask that you retract your statement that sales are being stolen or shaved, as they are not.

john, i may be misunderstanding the situation. let me just ask you one question, you obviously know intellichats system very well and seem technical proficeint

as a rev-share affiliate sending traffic to a program using intellichat(compared to a standard program not using intellichat), is there any way the inclusion of the intellichat software can cause me to not get credited for any amount of sales that i would have if the program did not use intellichat?

tell me that TMM says there is no way and the next post from me will be a retraction

[media]

Originally Posted by jcsike

john, i may be misunderstanding the situation. let me just ask you one question, you obviously know intellichats system very well and seem technical proficeint

as a rev-share affiliate sending traffic to a program using intellichat(compared to a standard program not using intellichat), is there any way the inclusion of the intellichat software can cause me to not get credited for any amount of sales that i would have if the program did not use intellichat?

tell me that TMM says there is no way and the next post from me will be a retraction

Of course there IS A WAY to steal sales.. you can hard code their affiliate link into the pop.. There is no question of that.. But to say that NATS/TMM has anything to do with that is pretty fuckin shitty and you should take the statement back.. This can be done on ANY software...

Its the responsibility of the sponsor and intelichat to come to an agreement that is fair for the affiliates to get proper credit on the sale..

SOLUTION: You can always set up a seperate site on nats that the traffic redirects to and gives intelichat credit as a "partner" of the site, and gives an affiliate credit for the sale as the webmaster, be it a PPS or a Revshare %.. it is very possible and very easy to do.. You just need to set up a secondary site to do it.. This payout can be split by intelichat and the webmaster and can be seen as a sale you may have never gotten without their software being in place.

Some program owners and techs may not know that this is an option.. thus the reason some people feel like they are not getting proper credit for their sales. They may not be that experiences with NATS, or any other software for that matter.

You should take back the statement you said about both companies.. because it comes down to the owner of the site/program that is responsible for what is happening to your traffic.

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by media

You should take back the statement you said about both companies..

i guess in my previous statement i should have changed "is there any way" to "as a regular function of intellichats business"

but to be fair, i dont want to cause problems, just reveal them if they are there to get them fixed, so ill retract whatever you guys want retracted

[TMM_John]

Originally Posted by jcsike

john, i may be misunderstanding the situation. let me just ask you one question, you obviously know intellichats system very well and seem technical proficeint

as a rev-share affiliate sending traffic to a program using intellichat(compared to a standard program not using intellichat), is there any way the inclusion of the intellichat software can cause me to not get credited for any amount of sales that i would have if the program did not use intellichat?

tell me that TMM says there is no way and the next post from me will be a retraction

IC receives a commission for sales under the IC program. That commission is negotiated between IC and the affiliate program owner. Even if IC was being paid 100% of the proceeds of the sale the affiliate ID of the sale would not change and you would still see the sale in your stats.

If you have information that there is something possible somehow beyond this I'd like it shared with me as that is not at all the intention or purpose of this integration and would completely go against my understanding of it. Your original post however referred (and linked) to another thread and misquoted/misrepresented information from it to arrive at the determination that this integration is a way to shave. That was not the information in that thread. Again, if you know something beyond this, I am not aware of it, and please let me know either here or in private so I may look into it.

[TMM_John]

Originally Posted by HowlingWulf

I don't know. This is the response I got from one sponsor using intellichat:

Support at 20 May 2009 06:49

Webmaster not get credit for intellchat sales, its not possible to make technically.

1439772 at 17 May 2009 06:35

Just noticed this intellichat on exit which offers a special discount link
https://www.intellichat.com/tracking...=608&chatID =
Do
webmasters get credit for this?

This might be relevant to this discussion if the program you're referring/linking to was actually using NATS. The purpose of the NATS / Intellichat integration is to allow NATS affiliate programs to utilize Intellichat and allow affiliates to also get credit for the saved sales from the IC chat/offers. I'm guessing whatever software that affiliate program is using doesn't support such an IC integration. Perhaps it would be "possible to make technically" if the program you are referring to there were to use NATS.

[TMM_John]

Originally Posted by jcsike

i guess in my previous statement i should have changed "is there any way" to "as a regular function of intellichats business"

but to be fair, i dont want to cause problems, just reveal them if they are there to get them fixed, so ill retract whatever you guys want retracted

Do you have a reason to believe they are there or are you just trying to guess at problems to reveal?

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by TMM_John

Do you have a reason to believe they are there or are you just trying to guess at problems to reveal?

i started the thread when i thought that if i sent a consumer over to the program and the consumer clicks a link in an intellichat window or clicks back on the browser, my cookie gets overridden and i no longer get credit for that consumer.

robwod told me that was not the case above and that i didnt understand it correctly

but im not technical and im wary of programs that "baffle me with bullshit", so i was asking to make sure

as an affiliate, i feel that everyones out to screw us and i see it time and again. i remember even you guys did years ago with your "unverified joins", so i apoligize if im a cynic

[TMM_John]

Originally Posted by jcsike

i started the thread when i thought that if i sent a consumer over to the program and the consumer clicks a link in an intellichat window or clicks back on the browser, my cookie gets overridden and i no longer get credit for that consumer.

robwod told me that was not the case above and that i didnt understand it correctly

but im not technical and im wary of programs that "baffle me with bullshit", so i was asking to make sure

as an affiliate, i feel that everyones out to screw us and i see it time and again. i remember even you guys did years ago with your "unverified joins", so i apoligize if im a cynic

No one was screwing anyone with the verified joins. By saying something like that you're going to do the same exact thing that happened here where someone says one thing, then someone takes it and runs somewhere completely false with it. The "verified joins" were implimented as part of instant epassporte payouts. These were joins which met fraud screens. ALL affiliates were always shown ALL joins, both verified and unverified. There were no secrets, no hidden sales, no screwing anyone over as you've said.

You've now overstated things twice. I'm sorry you're such a cynic, but don't run around spreading misinformation because you feel everyone is out to get you.

I'd appreciate that retraction.

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by TMM_John

No one was screwing anyone with the verified joins. By saying something like that you're going to do the same exact thing that happened here where someone says one thing, then someone takes it and runs somewhere completely false with it. The "verified joins" were implimented as part of instant epassporte payouts. These were joins which met fraud screens. ALL affiliates were always shown ALL joins, both verified and unverified. There were no secrets, no hidden sales, no screwing anyone over as you've said.

You've now overstated things twice. I'm sorry you're such a cynic, but don't run around spreading misinformation because you feel everyone is out to get you.

I'd appreciate that retraction.

sure, tell me exactly what you want me to say, i said "so ill retract whatever you guys want retracted" but that wasnt good enough, i misunderstood and ill make it better, no problem

intellichat, accept my apology, mea culpa


as for your other point, thats Bullshit. nats had something set up with flashcash where FC had to "verify" a join before i would get paid on it, unverified joins dont get paid out on.

you know what i call that?

same thing these 5 pages of people called it
http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=683448

[TMM_John]

Originally Posted by jcsike

sure, tell me exactly what you want me to say, i said "so ill retract whatever you guys want retracted" but that wasnt good enough, i misunderstood and ill make it better, no problem

intellichat, accept my apology, mea culpa


as for your other point, thats Bullshit. nats had something set up with flashcash where FC had to "verify" a join before i would get paid on it, unverified joins dont get paid out on.

you know what i call that?

same thing these 5 pages of people called it
http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=683448

Again, these joins were SHOWN to the user. The user was told of all joins they generated and were told if any did not meet the fraud controls and were unverified. This was done to HELP affiliates. Exactly the opposite of trying to screw them over.

[jcsike]

Originally Posted by TMM_John

Again, these joins were SHOWN to the user.

hmm, i thought you had installed this feature on one of your clients only showing verified joins, then that became public and you posted the following

Originally Posted by TMM_John

Due to concerns raised by affiliates regarding the NATS 3.1.x Instant Payments and Verified Signups features, Too Much Media would like to announce that the following changes have been implemented in NATS 3.1.16 and higher:

In addition to moving this functionality to a new module, as a standard policy, we at Too Much Media will be requiring the following in order to implement and use the Instant Payments Module:

1. All NATS program owners using the Instant Payments Module will be required to show both verified and unverified signups in the affiliates? stats pages.

which at that point you required them to show unverified sales info to affiliates, then you kept getting flack for that and 2 days later posted the following

Originally Posted by TMM_John

Over the past few days there has been a lot of discussion about a feature recently added to the NATS system. This feature, verified and unverified joins was developed based upon the input of FlashCash and implemented for them.

After speaking with FlashCash in great length about what to do with the perception of these features they have decided to drop the use of unverified and verified signups along with their free trials.

We at NATS have decided that because of the concerns raised by affiliates about this feature we will be dropping it.

[TMM_John]

Originally Posted by jcsike

hmm, i thought you had installed this feature on one of your clients only showing verified joins, then that became public and you posted the following




which at that point you required them to show unverified sales info to affiliates, then you kept getting flack for that and 2 days later posted the following

The unverified joins were shown, I was simply pointing out that it was a requirement.

This is from when Flashcash was doing instant epass payouts along with free tirals. They had their fraud screening tools. I'm sure you can imagine how huge the potential for fraud was. We refused to touch it unless affiliates were shown that they were not being paid for these fraud flagged sales.

Again, we did this FOR the affiliate. To protect their interests. To make sure they were aware of what was going on.

You shouldn't be so cynical that you're giving someone shit for insisting that affiliates be shown what is going on in full.

Bringing up (and then trying to manipulate) something from nearly THREE YEARS ago to deflect from the fact that you wrongly accused us of building some shaving tool with IC is rather over the top.

[jcsike]

john, i apologize for my previous insinuation, nats does not have any shaving tools and i should not have remotely suggested as such

[TMM_John]

Originally Posted by jcsike

john, i apologize for my previous insinuation, nats does not have any shaving tools and i should not have remotely suggested as such

Thank you for that.

If you legitimately have a question or concern about something, you're more than welcome to contact me, or even post here about it, but asking how something works is a much better way to do it than to come and say what it is doing if you're unsure of how it works. I'm very easy to reach if you ever need anything.

[count of monte cristo]

Originally Posted by brand0n

i strongly suggest you look into if the sponsors you are pushing are using intellichat.

i just noticed a couple that are.

i closed my link, intellichats window pops up, the bot goes to work and pumps a new link down my traffics throat that i can not find any where im getting credit for.

now i understand exit consoles, but exit consoles are always to other fucking sites.. this is pretty much an exit console back to the same site minus my fucking commission....

g fucking wizz..

Originally Posted by slavdogg

that is correct
affiliates dont get credit from intellichat or exit-chat sales

posted from another board

[tranza]

Originally Posted by Carmine Raguso

image fail.