The Collider, the Particle and a Theory About Fate

[cykoe6]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/sc...3lhc.html?_r=2

More than a year after an explosion of sparks, soot and frigid helium shut it down, the world?s biggest and most expensive physics experiment, known as the Large Hadron Collider, is poised to start up again. In December, if all goes well, protons will start smashing together in an underground racetrack outside Geneva in a search for forces and particles that reigned during the first trillionth of a second of the Big Bang.......

A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.

[4pleasure]

no proof = it doesn't exist

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

no proof = it doesn't exist

I think your bot has malfunctioned.

[bronco67]

They should collide some of that 9 billion dollars into the school system, instead of making giant geek toys.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by bronco67

They should collide some of that 9 billion dollars into the school system, instead of making giant geek toys.

I don't know......... reading this article today makes me quite certain the US public school system is doomed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/ed...ipline.html?em

It’s a Fork, It’s a Spoon, It’s a ... Weapon?

Finding character witnesses when you are 6 years old is not easy. But there was Zachary Christie last week at a school disciplinary committee hearing with his karate instructor and his mother’s fiancé by his side to vouch for him.
Readers' Comments

Zachary’s offense? Taking a camping utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school. He was so excited about recently joining the Cub Scouts that he wanted to use it at lunch. School officials concluded that he had violated their zero-tolerance policy on weapons, and Zachary was suspended and now faces 45 days in the district’s reform school.

“It just seems unfair,” Zachary said, pausing as he practiced writing lower-case letters with his mother, who is home-schooling him while the family tries to overturn his punishment.

Spurred in part by the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings, many school districts around the country adopted zero-tolerance policies on the possession of weapons on school grounds. More recently, there has been growing debate over whether the policies have gone too far.

But, based on the code of conduct for the Christina School District, where Zachary is a first grader, school officials had no choice. They had to suspend him because, “regardless of possessor’s intent,” knives are banned.

[dyna mo]

there's a very good reason why no one/nothing from the future has traveled back in time- there is no one/nothing in the future.

[4pleasure]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

I think your bot has malfunctioned.

Hehe the bot is working just fine. Anyway think about it. They just made that Higgs Boson up so the theory stands. Same shit with string theory.

Also Higg's bonsons were never discovered on LEP and Bevatron ( Energy amount < 160 GeV ). The LHC uses engergies > 160 GeV and a lot of scientists really doubt it will be ever detected even with higher energy amounts.

Check out Peter Woits blog for a discussion on that subject :

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/w...es/000002.html

And if you can't prove it, why asume that it exists eh

[4pleasure]

Wow I don't think I never posted anything more geeky on GFY

[Darkland]

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

no proof = it doesn't exist

Talk about the dumbest thing anyone can say, but what can you expect from uneducated laymen. You clearly haven't even the rudimentary concept of science or physics.

MANY things existed before we were able to see or know of their existence. That certainly doesn't mean it did not exist.

Not to long ago we believed there was only one type of light wave in the now burgeoning full spectrum of light we now know about. Prior to and on the way to their discoveries, we had no proof only theories.

Einstein had no proof, in his special theory of relativity, that gravity could bend light. It went unproven until Arthur Eddington captured it in action but it still existed before we proved it.

Not to long ago we had no proof of atoms, electrons, protons, quarks, etc. until one day someone saw matter acting in a peculiar fashion and formed a theory on the existence of very small particles at work in all matter. Finally we were able to detect their presence and acquire verifiable proof. BUT they surely existed prior to proof of their existence.

[4pleasure]

Originally Posted by Darkland

Talk about the dumbest thing anyone can say, but what can you expect from uneducated laymen. You clearly haven't even the rudimentary concept of science or physics.

MANY things existed before we were able to see or know of their existence. That certainly doesn't mean it did not exist.

Not to long ago we believed there was only one type of light wave in the now burgeoning full spectrum of light we now know about. Prior to and on the way to their discoveries, we had no proof only theories.

Einstein had no proof, in his special theory of relativity, that gravity could bend light. It went unproven until Arthur Eddington captured it in action but it still existed before we proved it.

Not to long ago we had no proof of atoms, electrons, protons, quarks, etc. until one day someone saw matter acting in a peculiar fashion and formed a theory on the existence of very small particles at work in all matter. Finally we were able to detect their presence and acquire verifiable proof. BUT they surely existed prior to proof of their existence.

Dude not need to get agressive.

An even dumber ( and uneducated ) thing is to believe all theories that haven't been proven make sense.

Time to remind you of some big scientific blunders :

· Brain power: Scientists at the Institute for Animal Health in Edinburgh secured a £200,000 government grant to find out whether BSE has jumped the "species barrier" from cows into sheep. An inquiry is now under way after it was found that scientists had been mistakenly testing cattle brains instead of sheep brains for five years.

· Scientific Watergate: The US National Institutes of Health investigatory panel found the immunologist Thereza Imanishi-Kari had fabricated data in a 1986 research paper authored with the Nobel prize winner David Baltimore. The findings claimed in the paper promised a breakthrough for genetic modification of the immune system.

· Mein bumph: Oxbridge historian Hugh Trevor-Roper authenticated the Hitler Diaries, unveiled as an exclusive by the German-based Stern magazine. The diaries were later exposed as a hoax.

· Cold Fusion: In 1989 chemists Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischman, of the University of Utah, claimed to have solved the world's energy problems by discovering cold fusion. However, no-one has since been able to replicate their findings of nuclear fusion in heavy water.

· Hubble Space Telescope: Nasa scientists launched the Hubble telescope to create a lens 10 to 20 times more powerful than those based on earth. A gross design error in the main mirror was discovered immediately after launch in April 1990. Hundreds of millions of pounds were needed for the astronaut repair of the mirror.

· N-rays: A French physicist, René Blondlot, claimed to have discovered a new type of radiation, shortly after Roentgen had discovered X-rays. American physicist Robert Wood, however, revealed that N-rays were little more than a delusion. Wood removed the prism from the N-ray detection device, without which the machine couldn't work. Yet, Blondlot's assistant still claimed he found N-rays.

· Academic standards: Cyril Burt, the 1960s guru of British psychology, produced research into the intelligence of identical twins which, among other findings, led to the assertions that academic standards were falling. Years later the statistics were found to be "too perfect" and it was discovered the twins - and even the researcher alleged to have carried out the work - never existed.

· Piltdown man: In 1913 an ape's jaw with a canine tooth worn down like a human's was uncovered at a site near Piltdown. British paleoanthropologists came to accept the idea that the fossil remains belonged to a single creature who had a human cranium and an ape's jaw - offering the missing link between apes and humans in the evolutionary chain. In 1953, Piltdown 'man' was exposed as a forgery. The skull was modern and the teeth on the ape's jaw had been filed down.

· Alchemy: - Sir Isaac Newton - the scientist who single-handedly created the foundations of modern day physics had a little known obsession with alchemy, and was convinced for much of his life that he would be able to change base metals into gold. Such a discovery would have helped with his later job as master of the mint, but never materialised.

· Flat Earth: - even though Christopher Columbus gave flat earth theorists a reason to think twice, there are still flat earth societies where people propose (and prove) elaborate explanations for why the world actually is shaped like a pancake.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by bronco67

They should collide some of that 9 billion dollars into the school system, instead of making giant geek toys.

And exactly why should the europeans put $9 billion in the US school system?

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

Dude not need to get agressive.

An even dumber ( and uneducated ) thing is to believe all theories that haven't been proven make sense.

Time to remind you of some big scientific blunders :

Science gets it right more than wrong. Otherwsie you wouldn't be posting on the internet now would you?

[4pleasure]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Science gets it right more than wrong. Otherwsie you wouldn't be posting on the internet now would you?

Sience is a lot of trial and error, persistence and often some luck.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

ADG

[Darkland]

I wasn't being aggressive, just pointing out the absurdity of your statement, and that people uneducated in science and physics could hardly know what they are talking about.

As for your blunders, which are true, have little or no baring on your initial statement of no proof = does not exist.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

Dude not need to get agressive.

An even dumber ( and uneducated ) thing is to believe all theories that haven't been proven make sense.

Theories are always changing and being amended. That is why they are called theories.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

Time to remind you of some big scientific blunders :

· Brain power: Scientists at the Institute for Animal Health in Edinburgh secured a £200,000 government grant to find out whether BSE has jumped the "species barrier" from cows into sheep. An inquiry is now under way after it was found that scientists had been mistakenly testing cattle brains instead of sheep brains for five years.

This is just an example of procedural error in the lab and only points to the stupidity of the scientists working on that project.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· Scientific Watergate: The US National Institutes of Health investigatory panel found the immunologist Thereza Imanishi-Kari had fabricated data in a 1986 research paper authored with the Nobel prize winner David Baltimore. The findings claimed in the paper promised a breakthrough for genetic modification of the immune system.

This isn't really a blunder so much as it is a case of a dishonest researcher/scientist.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· Mein bumph: Oxbridge historian Hugh Trevor-Roper authenticated the Hitler Diaries, unveiled as an exclusive by the German-based Stern magazine. The diaries were later exposed as a hoax.

Not even sure at what you are getting at here other than another example of either dishonesty or procedural error.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· Cold Fusion: In 1989 chemists Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischman, of the University of Utah, claimed to have solved the world's energy problems by discovering cold fusion. However, no-one has since been able to replicate their findings of nuclear fusion in heavy water.

See above statements... The search for cold fusion is still in process. Whether it becomes a reality is yet to be seen but I reserve the notion it never will. This being the closest to qualifying under your original statement.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· Hubble Space Telescope: Nasa scientists launched the Hubble telescope to create a lens 10 to 20 times more powerful than those based on earth. A gross design error in the main mirror was discovered immediately after launch in April 1990. Hundreds of millions of pounds were needed for the astronaut repair of the mirror.

Again... a procedural error and flaw in the machining of the mirrors.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· N-rays: A French physicist, René Blondlot, claimed to have discovered a new type of radiation, shortly after Roentgen had discovered X-rays. American physicist Robert Wood, however, revealed that N-rays were little more than a delusion. Wood removed the prism from the N-ray detection device, without which the machine couldn't work. Yet, Blondlot's assistant still claimed he found N-rays.

Only proof here is that man is an idiot and his work a sham.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· Academic standards: Cyril Burt, the 1960s guru of British psychology, produced research into the intelligence of identical twins which, among other findings, led to the assertions that academic standards were falling. Years later the statistics were found to be "too perfect" and it was discovered the twins - and even the researcher alleged to have carried out the work - never existed.

Again, corrupt and dishonest scientist.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· Piltdown man: In 1913 an ape's jaw with a canine tooth worn down like a human's was uncovered at a site near Piltdown. British paleoanthropologists came to accept the idea that the fossil remains belonged to a single creature who had a human cranium and an ape's jaw - offering the missing link between apes and humans in the evolutionary chain. In 1953, Piltdown 'man' was exposed as a forgery. The skull was modern and the teeth on the ape's jaw had been filed down.

See above...

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

· Alchemy: - Sir Isaac Newton - the scientist who single-handedly created the foundations of modern day physics had a little known obsession with alchemy, and was convinced for much of his life that he would be able to change base metals into gold. Such a discovery would have helped with his later job as master of the mint, but never materialised.

· Flat Earth: - even though Christopher Columbus gave flat earth theorists a reason to think twice, there are still flat earth societies where people propose (and prove) elaborate explanations for why the world actually is shaped like a pancake.

I won't even bother to qualify these as it is expected that on the road to discovery many paths must be taken and the direct path is not always the one chosen. Any process must have a foundation no matter how incorrect it may be.

I apologize if you took it as an insult.

[4pleasure]

No problem man

Sorry if I made the hair on your head rise

[4pleasure]

Time for some THC jokes...

"Do my bosons give you a hadron?"


"A neutron walks into a bar; he asks the bartender, 'How much for a beer?' The bartender looks at him, and says 'For you, no charge"


"A neutron walks into a bar; he asks the bartender, 'How much for a beer?' The bartender looks at him, and says "This reminds me of a joke."


"A proton walks into a bar and says "I left my wallet here". The bartender says "Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."


"What is the difference between a physicist, an engineer, and a mathematician?

If an engineer walks into a room and sees a fire in the middle and a bucket of water in the corner, he takes the bucket of water and pours it on the fire and puts it out.

If a physicist walks into a room and sees a fire in the middle and a bucket of water in the corner, he takes the bucket of water and pours it eloquently around the fire and lets the fire put itself out.

If a mathematician walks into a room and sees a fire in the middle and a bucket of water in the corner, he convinces himself there is a solution and leaves."


"A Higgs-Boson walks into a bar. The bartender says "You know, there were some guys looking for you."

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

Wow I don't think I never posted anything more geeky on GFY

you have just outdone yourself!

[Darkland]

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

No problem man

Sorry if I made the hair on your head rise

That would be hard to do as I have none.

As for the collider I don't hold much hope that we will find out anything new or significant. We won't find or create stranglets... We won't create microscopic blackholes and if we do it is extremely doubtful they will survive due to "hawking radiation"... I do believe that it might be possible they will come closer to finding the Higgs Boson, cringingly called the "God Particle", but is still unlikely.

Only time will tell and I am looking forward to the results or lack of.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by bronco67

They should collide some of that 9 billion dollars into the school system, instead of making giant geek toys.

Honestly fuck the schools. The parents brought that shit on themselves and most schools in Europe and especially in that region work fine.

Originally Posted by 4pleasure

Dude not need to get agressive.

An even dumber ( and uneducated ) thing is to believe all theories that haven't been proven make sense.

Time to remind you of some big scientific blunders :

· Alchemy: - Sir Isaac Newton - the scientist who single-handedly created the foundations of modern day physics had a little known obsession with alchemy, and was convinced for much of his life that he would be able to change base metals into gold. Such a discovery would have helped with his later job as master of the mint, but never materialised.

· Flat Earth: - even though Christopher Columbus gave flat earth theorists a reason to think twice, there are still flat earth societies where people propose (and prove) elaborate explanations for why the world actually is shaped like a pancake.

Actually to anyone with any since of history, they all knew Newton was very involved with Alchemy (to call him the father of it is stretching shit). Yes he was seeking out the philosopher's stone. He was not the only person to try this theory and people today still are interested in creating the philosophers stone.
Anyways speaking of creating metals (we do make diamonds btw), show me some aluminum found in nature.

Christopher Columbus, the king and queen of Spain, even the average sailor did not think the earth was flat. Hell the Portuguese went around Africa to get to India and He wanted to reach china by sailing west. The sailors just had a general fear of being more than 10 or so days away from land, due to fears of getting lost. Copernicus had long ago proved a wrong earth, the maps they used were a round earth. That whole story is just a bunch of BS the US school system liked to feed the kids.

[2MuchMark]

LiveCamNetwork girls Atish and Kedra caused the shutdown last year.




"Ooopsies!"

[Iron Fist]

This is GFY... go visit /. if you want to have a semi-intelligent discussion about LHC, Higgs Boson and Quantum Suicide.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Science gets it right more than wrong.

Actually that's incorrect. Science gets it wrong most of the time, but when it finally gets it right it gets published.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by GatorB

And exactly why should the europeans put $9 billion in the US school system?

valid point!


.

[L-Pink]

This discussion confuses me ... I'm gonna look for a "would you hit it" thread.


.

[4pleasure]

I like this thread

[Tom_PM]

Newton had to hide his interest in alchemy or the church would have carved him up for steaks.

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

ADG

hahaha

I guess you have to be a porn webmaster to see hadron = hardon as I did at first too