Montreal man ponders suing feds after years of surveillance - GoFuckYourself.com

fatfoo · 10-14-2009, 06:17 PM

Interesting News Article

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...ui_certificate

Adil Charkaoui talks about suing Ottawa after security certificate quashed

By Sidhartha Banerjee, The Canadian Press

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MONTREAL - Adil Charkaoui spent more than six years under suspicion of being a terrorist operative, spent 21 months in jail, had his movements tracked with an electronic bracelet, and missed the birth of his son.

Now he wants the federal government to pay.

After a Federal Court judge ruled his security certificate null and void Wednesday, the Montreal man said he'll be seeking reparations for the years he spent trying to clear his name.

In the meantime, the Moroccan native said he simply wanted to celebrate.

"Finally, after six and a half years, I can enjoy not only freedom, but justice," he told a news conference.

"We'll be organizing a huge party and everyone will be invited."

Charkaoui, a married father of three who has steadfastly denied any links to terrorists, said he's elated by Wednesday's judgment.

Federal Court Justice Daniele Tremblay-Lamer wrote that the certificate must be quashed and that Ottawa has no right to appeal.

Tremblay-Lamer said the notion of national security is a question of perspective and that grey zones can exist.

"A disagreement on. . . one element of the evidence might lead the ministers to believe the court has given more weight to the rights of an individual over the demands of national security," Tremblay-Lamer wrote.

"However, this belief is not founded."

The case against Charkaoui began to unravel this summer when Ottawa's lawyers withdrew evidence against him, saying disclosing such information would endanger national security.

Government lawyers were seeking permission to appeal a court decision that would have forced Ottawa to disclose information about the case.

A member of Charkaoui's legal team called the decision a legally important one, because it cements in practice the notion that decisions on national security could be left to a judge's discretion.

"That's where this decision can have an impact," said Lucie Joncas, a lawyer for Charkaoui. "The judge doesn't have to defer to (a government) minister's opinion about what is national security."

Tremblay-Lamer had already removed the remaining conditions against Charkaoui last month, notably one that forced him to wear an ankle bracelet that let the government track his every move since 2005.

Many of the conditions originally imposed on Charkaoui had already been removed in February, when the judge ruled some of them had become disproportionate given the number of years that had passed since he first faced terrorist allegations.

Tremblay-Lamer had already warned lawyers that the security certificate would fall, because the federal government failed to meet its burden of proof once the disputed material - gathered through wiretaps - was removed.

Charkaoui is demanding an apology and compensation from the government.

Charkaoui is a landed immigrant who was arrested in Montreal in 2003 under security-certificate legislation that allows Canada to expel foreign-born individuals if they are considered a national security risk.

The Canadian Security Intelligence Service said it continued to stand by its information Wednesday, but could not disclose certain information because it would jeopardize national security.

The agency says Charkaoui, a schoolteacher and part-time graduate student, is an al-Qaida sympathizer who should be returned to his native Morocco.

"CSIS cannot protect the safety and security of Canadians effectively if the subjects of its investigations are aware of its methods of operation," the spy agency said in a statement.

"It is imperative that a security intelligence service protect its methodologies and investigative techniques. . .

"It is unfortunate that, given the unique nature of this decision and the implications for national security, the judge did not agree that the case presented aspects that warranted an appeal."

In a recent interview, Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan said he had concerns about various aspects related to the question of security certificates, including rising legal costs.

"But what I have to do is find a way to ensure that Canadians' safety and security is protected," he said.

Van Loan said Wednesday through a spokesman that the government would be reviewing the decision and its impact on national security.

Charkaoui was among five men - including four from Ontario - who were facing removal from Canada under the certificates.

Mohamed Harkat, Mahmoud Jaballah, Mohamed Zeki Mahjoub and Hassan Almrei are all fighting to remain in the country.

Charkaoui began his news conference by stating a wish that it might be his last, but then added that he wouldn't simply fade into the background.

"I feel I have a responsibility to help other people facing the same difficulties," Charkaoui said.

There have been recent revelations in the Harkat and Almrei cases that CSIS failed to disclose certain evidence, which could jeopardize those proceedings.

For his part, Charkaoui said he's planning a party and will invite everyone who has championed his cause.

"It's a great decision for me, a historical decision and so I'm really happy," Charkaoui said.

"Finally, it's the end of this nightmare."

$5 submissions · 10-18-2009, 03:50 AM

Crazy stuff.

SpyCam · 10-18-2009, 09:23 AM

horrible

cykoe6 · 10-18-2009, 11:48 AM

It seems like that guy should go back to Morocco and solve all his problems. I am sure that Canada will still have plenty of Jihadists after he leaves. It is pretty scary to think that judges can forbid the government from watching a foreign terrorist agent operating in Canada. Goo luck with that plan......

iaccess · 10-18-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

It seems like that guy should go back to Morocco and solve all his problems. I am sure that Canada will still have plenty of Jihadists after he leaves. It is pretty scary to think that judges can forbid the government from watching a foreign terrorist agent operating in Canada. Goo luck with that plan......

He' s not a terrorist agent, he never was. He was arrested under "suspicion" of being a terrorist, no evidence at all that he was in any terrorist organisation. P4tri0t 4ct is fucked up, Canada got pressure from the US to continue procedures against him and they did. Thankfully, in Canada you can't just send someone in a foreign country, all that without evidence, you have the right to get a impartial trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

10-18-2009, 12:27 PM

Welcome to Canada, enough said.

cykoe6 · 10-18-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaccess

He' s not a terrorist agent, he never was. He was arrested under "suspicion" of being a terrorist, no evidence at all that he was in any terrorist organisation. P4tri0t 4ct is fucked up, Canada got pressure from the US to continue procedures against him and they did. Thankfully, in Canada you can't just send someone in a foreign country, all that without evidence, you have the right to get a impartial trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

So you are saying that every time Canada investigates a Jihadist (perhaps unfairly) that it is all America's fault?

Anyway it seems to me that if Jihadists don't like the hospitality in Canada that they should go home to their own wonderful country (which I am sure is a human right paradise).

Libertine · 10-18-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

So you are saying that every time Canada investigates a Jihadist (perhaps unfairly) that it is all America's fault?

Anyway it seems to me that if Jihadists don't like the hospitality in Canada that they should go home to their own wonderful country (which I am sure is a human right paradise).

Jihadist? I suppose you don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty"?

cykoe6 · 10-18-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Jihadist? I suppose you don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty"?

I believe that when a citizen of a country is accused of a criminal offense then they are entitled to a presumption of innocence and a fair trial...... but an immigrant in a country who is under reasonable suspicion for terrorist or criminal activities should be sent home.

I say this as someone who is living as an immigrant myself. Each year when I go to renew my visa they have every legal right to refuse to renew it without any grounds whatsoever. Why should a Jihadist (..... oops I mean unfairly persecuted Muslim

) be treated any differently in Canada?

iaccess · 10-18-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

I believe that when a citizen of a country is accused of a criminal offense then they are entitled to a presumption of innocence and a fair trial...... but an immigrant in a country who is under reasonable suspicion for terrorist or criminal activities should be sent home.

I say this as someone who is living as an immigrant myself. Each year when I go to renew my visa they have every legal right to refuse to renew it without any grounds whatsoever. Why should a Jihadist (..... oops I mean unfairly persecuted Muslim

) be treated any differently in Canada?

reasonable suspicion for terrorist or criminal activities??? huh, what terrorist activities? There hasn't been an attack in 8 years, this is paranoia to me. I don't understand what you're scared of, there is no threat.

epitome · 10-18-2009, 01:09 PM

Oh noz everybody lives in fears since 9/11!

Never mind that fact that 15x as many people die in car accidents, from the flu, etc. each year. I cannot even imagine how many more die from obesity.

What's the purpose of living if you're going to live in fear?

I could get blown up tomorrow, but I have a much better chance of dying by not looking when I cross the street.

cykoe6 · 10-18-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaccess

reasonable suspicion for terrorist or criminal activities??? huh, what terrorist activities? There hasn't been an attack in 8 years, this is paranoia to me. I don't understand what you're scared of, there is no threat.

You are clearly semi-literate with limited reading comprehension abilities and therefore likely unaware of the numerous terrorist networks that operate worldwide.

I am personally not afraid of anything. I could care less about Canada. If they want to fall on their sword it means nothing to me. I was just commenting on what the OP had posted.

iaccess · 10-18-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

You are clearly semi-literate with limited reading comprehension abilities and therefore likely unaware of the numerous terrorist networks that operate worldwide.

I am personally not afraid of anything. I could care less about Canada. If they want to fall on their sword it means nothing to me. I was just commenting on what the OP had posted.

It's not because my native language isn't english that i'm semi-literate I was simply argumenting your post.

p.s You watch CNN too much.

cykoe6 · 10-18-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaccess

It's not because my native language isn't english that i'm semi-literate I was simply argumenting your post.

p.s You watch CNN too much.

Perhaps if I used the description "legitimate Islamic resistance movements engaged in a defensive struggle against global Zionist tyranny" as opposed the to the term "terrorists" you might understand me better?

fatfoo · 10-18-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Goo luck with that plan......

Goo luck!!!

fatfoo · 10-18-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaccess

reasonable suspicion for terrorist or criminal activities??? huh, what terrorist activities? There hasn't been an attack in 8 years, this is paranoia to me. I don't understand what you're scared of, there is no threat.

That's not too long ago...

fatfoo · 10-18-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

Oh noz everybody lives in fears since 9/11!

Never mind that fact that 15x as many people die in car accidents, from the flu, etc. each year. I cannot even imagine how many more die from obesity.

What's the purpose of living if you're going to live in fear?

I could get blown up tomorrow, but I have a much better chance of dying by not looking when I cross the street.

Good point. It's better not to live in fear. But, people should try not to die. Avoid dangerous activities; decrease risk of dying.

After Shock Media · 10-18-2009, 04:48 PM

Fuck it, he should be compensated. Jail, plus missing such events. Screw that. If Canada was that worried they could of just not let him in, unless I read it wrong. If I did and he was already in and technically a citizen without a revocable visa, say your sorry and pay the man.

My dad was late to the birth of my sister and he has had 20 plus years of reminding, even though it was not his fault. Missing it should be worth some serious bucks for sure. That alone deserves a female nagging bonus.

If they were so concerned and thought for sure they had enough evidence, and yes there always is a line even when you know someone is guilty and you should not pull the legal trigger until you are all ready to go. They should of had no issue taking the evidence "secrets or not" to some sort of high up judge. Sure they judge may not have clearance but fuck if no judges have clearance then how would you fairly try the person anyways.

Very tired of the whole, yes we know something but we will not say. Reminds me of Bush and even Obama now with the whole prisoner shit. Also reminds me of stupid ass threads on GFY that go 10 pages without the "issue, source, or person named" ever. Just like being called a cheater by some program and then they refuse to give you any details to defend yourself or even get a fucking clue as to why they would think that because they "can not reveal their anti fraud measures".

10-14-2009, 06:17 PM	#1
fatfoo ICQ:649699063 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 27,763	Montreal man ponders suing feds after years of surveillance Interesting News Article http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...ui_certificate Adil Charkaoui talks about suing Ottawa after security certificate quashed By Sidhartha Banerjee, The Canadian Press ADVERTISEMENT MONTREAL - Adil Charkaoui spent more than six years under suspicion of being a terrorist operative, spent 21 months in jail, had his movements tracked with an electronic bracelet, and missed the birth of his son. Now he wants the federal government to pay. After a Federal Court judge ruled his security certificate null and void Wednesday, the Montreal man said he'll be seeking reparations for the years he spent trying to clear his name. In the meantime, the Moroccan native said he simply wanted to celebrate. "Finally, after six and a half years, I can enjoy not only freedom, but justice," he told a news conference. "We'll be organizing a huge party and everyone will be invited." Charkaoui, a married father of three who has steadfastly denied any links to terrorists, said he's elated by Wednesday's judgment. Federal Court Justice Daniele Tremblay-Lamer wrote that the certificate must be quashed and that Ottawa has no right to appeal. Tremblay-Lamer said the notion of national security is a question of perspective and that grey zones can exist. "A disagreement on. . . one element of the evidence might lead the ministers to believe the court has given more weight to the rights of an individual over the demands of national security," Tremblay-Lamer wrote. "However, this belief is not founded." The case against Charkaoui began to unravel this summer when Ottawa's lawyers withdrew evidence against him, saying disclosing such information would endanger national security. Government lawyers were seeking permission to appeal a court decision that would have forced Ottawa to disclose information about the case. A member of Charkaoui's legal team called the decision a legally important one, because it cements in practice the notion that decisions on national security could be left to a judge's discretion. "That's where this decision can have an impact," said Lucie Joncas, a lawyer for Charkaoui. "The judge doesn't have to defer to (a government) minister's opinion about what is national security." Tremblay-Lamer had already removed the remaining conditions against Charkaoui last month, notably one that forced him to wear an ankle bracelet that let the government track his every move since 2005. Many of the conditions originally imposed on Charkaoui had already been removed in February, when the judge ruled some of them had become disproportionate given the number of years that had passed since he first faced terrorist allegations. Tremblay-Lamer had already warned lawyers that the security certificate would fall, because the federal government failed to meet its burden of proof once the disputed material - gathered through wiretaps - was removed. Charkaoui is demanding an apology and compensation from the government. Charkaoui is a landed immigrant who was arrested in Montreal in 2003 under security-certificate legislation that allows Canada to expel foreign-born individuals if they are considered a national security risk. The Canadian Security Intelligence Service said it continued to stand by its information Wednesday, but could not disclose certain information because it would jeopardize national security. The agency says Charkaoui, a schoolteacher and part-time graduate student, is an al-Qaida sympathizer who should be returned to his native Morocco. "CSIS cannot protect the safety and security of Canadians effectively if the subjects of its investigations are aware of its methods of operation," the spy agency said in a statement. "It is imperative that a security intelligence service protect its methodologies and investigative techniques. . . "It is unfortunate that, given the unique nature of this decision and the implications for national security, the judge did not agree that the case presented aspects that warranted an appeal." In a recent interview, Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan said he had concerns about various aspects related to the question of security certificates, including rising legal costs. "But what I have to do is find a way to ensure that Canadians' safety and security is protected," he said. Van Loan said Wednesday through a spokesman that the government would be reviewing the decision and its impact on national security. Charkaoui was among five men - including four from Ontario - who were facing removal from Canada under the certificates. Mohamed Harkat, Mahmoud Jaballah, Mohamed Zeki Mahjoub and Hassan Almrei are all fighting to remain in the country. Charkaoui began his news conference by stating a wish that it might be his last, but then added that he wouldn't simply fade into the background. "I feel I have a responsibility to help other people facing the same difficulties," Charkaoui said. There have been recent revelations in the Harkat and Almrei cases that CSIS failed to disclose certain evidence, which could jeopardize those proceedings. For his part, Charkaoui said he's planning a party and will invite everyone who has championed his cause. "It's a great decision for me, a historical decision and so I'm really happy," Charkaoui said. "Finally, it's the end of this nightmare." __________________ Send me an email: [email protected]

10-18-2009, 03:50 AM	#2
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Crazy stuff. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

10-18-2009, 11:48 AM	#4
cykoe6 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vegas Posts: 4,499	It seems like that guy should go back to Morocco and solve all his problems. I am sure that Canada will still have plenty of Jihadists after he leaves. It is pretty scary to think that judges can forbid the government from watching a foreign terrorist agent operating in Canada. Goo luck with that plan...... __________________ бабки, шлюхи, сила

10-18-2009, 04:48 PM	#18
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	Fuck it, he should be compensated. Jail, plus missing such events. Screw that. If Canada was that worried they could of just not let him in, unless I read it wrong. If I did and he was already in and technically a citizen without a revocable visa, say your sorry and pay the man. My dad was late to the birth of my sister and he has had 20 plus years of reminding, even though it was not his fault. Missing it should be worth some serious bucks for sure. That alone deserves a female nagging bonus. If they were so concerned and thought for sure they had enough evidence, and yes there always is a line even when you know someone is guilty and you should not pull the legal trigger until you are all ready to go. They should of had no issue taking the evidence "secrets or not" to some sort of high up judge. Sure they judge may not have clearance but fuck if no judges have clearance then how would you fairly try the person anyways. Very tired of the whole, yes we know something but we will not say. Reminds me of Bush and even Obama now with the whole prisoner shit. Also reminds me of stupid ass threads on GFY that go 10 pages without the "issue, source, or person named" ever. Just like being called a cheater by some program and then they refuse to give you any details to defend yourself or even get a fucking clue as to why they would think that because they "can not reveal their anti fraud measures". __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

10-18-2009, 09:23 AM	#3
SpyCam PoiSEO.com Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: PoiSEO.com Posts: 1,201	horrible

10-18-2009, 12:27 PM	#6
magpan Guest Posts: n/a	Welcome to Canada, enough said.

10-18-2009, 01:09 PM	#11
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Oh noz everybody lives in fears since 9/11! Never mind that fact that 15x as many people die in car accidents, from the flu, etc. each year. I cannot even imagine how many more die from obesity. What's the purpose of living if you're going to live in fear? I could get blown up tomorrow, but I have a much better chance of dying by not looking when I cross the street.