Online Performer Agreement and Age Verification Forms - GoFuckYourself.com

SJCollegeboy · 03-25-2010, 02:22 AM

Can someone please inform me as to why the webcam companies don't allow models to do the Performer Agreement and Age verification forms online? Downloading, completing them, then scanning or faxing them back seems so unnecessary and they probably lose at least 20% of their prospective models in that process. So, there must be a reason that none of them do it.

Real business question. Please enlighten me.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2010, 02:42 AM

Because they can be easily forged and land the web cam company in a ton of shit.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Because they can be easily forged and land the web cam company in a ton of shit.

Can be forged either way.

SJCollegeboy · 03-25-2010, 03:10 AM

Thanks for taking care of that one for me Aaron. Can we get some legal input here from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. What's the difference in scanning/faxing back a digital copy of those Performer Agreement forms and storing a digital copy of those same forms that were created online.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJCollegeboy

Thanks for taking care of that one for me Aaron. Can we get some legal input here from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. What's the difference in scanning/faxing back a digital copy of those Performer Agreement forms and storing a digital copy of those same forms that were created online.

There is no difference. It's a great feature that should have been available YEARS ago.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2010, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

Can be forged either way.

It comes down to whether you want to stand in front of a judge and say you had met the girl and checked her ID or whether you want to tell him you accepted what you got in an email.

Your in trouble which ever way, but one is deeper shit than the other.

The best person to ask SJCollegeboy, is your attorney. Telling the judge you got advice from me or Aaron will just make the judge even more pissed off. Of course if it's you trying to perform online and no webcam company accepting your screened and faxed ID my answer will do for you.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2010, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

There is no difference. It's a great feature that should have been available YEARS ago.

Aaron trust me there's a difference when the shit hits the fan. And that's what counts.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Aaron trust me there's a difference when the shit hits the fan. And that's what counts.

The hell there is.

Option A: Model faxes in her ID.

Option B: Model scans her ID and attaches it to an online form.

Neither option allows the webcam company to see the original ID. BOTH options include the EXACT same risk.

It doesn't take a law degree to figure this out...Just a little common sense.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 03:39 AM

In fact....A 300dpi scan of a models ID is MUCH clearer than a faxed copy any day of the week. Because of this fact alone, an online system would provide better quality images of ID's and make for much easier detection of fakes.

If you argue with that then you're a tool.

Twoface31 · 03-25-2010, 04:29 AM

hey there i think you need to use your coconut head........

03-25-2010, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJCollegeboy

Can someone please inform me as to why the webcam companies don't allow models to do the Performer Agreement and Age verification forms online? Downloading, completing them, then scanning or faxing them back seems so unnecessary and they probably lose at least 20% of their prospective models in that process. So, there must be a reason that none of them do it.

Real business question. Please enlighten me.

ImLive has a registration system that is 100% digital --- it is one of the most comprehensive that we know of. Digital signatures are required for each of the agreements, a scan of your Government-issued ID (front and back, if necessary), face / Government-issued ID photo (clear enough to read the dates on the ID as well as fully verify that it is indeed the same ID submitted on the scan (as well as actually being the new model in question)), and face / paper w/ handwritten date (date of registration) (in addition to the normal registration and profile fields). It completely streamlines the registration process and it is a good model for any cam site to follow (of course, on the recommendation of your own attorneys). There are more sites that do the same but ImLive is probably the best example and, in many cases, they do verification follow-ups by email, telephone, and chat.

03-25-2010, 04:59 AM

I should mention one further item: 2257 systems on cam sites have evolved immensely since late 2008 (with many more requirements to maintain compliance). That said, they are quite advanced and log nearly every activity that ever happens on the site (clips of every session (if not the full sessions themselves), recorded chats, videos, uploaded pictures, chat logs (even in free text chat), etc...) with these items being recorded, organized, and indefinitely stored via automation.

I'll plug my own product here as VCMS (see sig) comes with such a 2257 back-end (and, we know of no other platform that currently comes with this module as a standard feature).

FYI, just trying to be of help and provide a coherent background of what should actually exist to keep everything in order.

$5 submissions · 03-25-2010, 05:06 AM

Authentication issues. You're on to something though. Maybe in a few years with more advances in facial recognition software technology along with legislative support, this might be a reality.

It would definitely make a lot of other business transactions smoother, faster, and cheaper.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

The hell there is.

Option A: Model faxes in her ID.

Option B: Model scans her ID and attaches it to an online form.

Neither option allows the webcam company to see the original ID. BOTH options include the EXACT same risk.

It doesn't take a law degree to figure this out...Just a little common sense.

Exactly how many judges have you stood in front of Aaron?

My count is 3 and having done all you can to verify the models ages is a plus. The prosecution will use what ever they can to make you look like the bad guy. It's just great when your defense council can counter their arguments.

It's all about when the shit hits the fan.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Exactly how many judges have you stood in front of Aaron?

My count is 3 and having done all you can to verify the models ages is a plus. The prosecution will use what ever they can to make you look like the bad guy. It's just great when your defense council can counter their arguments.

It's all about when the shit hits the fan.

Paul...Stop for a moment. Now...Pull your head out of your ass and read the ORIGINAL POST again.

We are not talking about YOU verifying a models ID. We are talking about WEBCAM sites and faxed/mailed in COPIES of ID's. COPIES...As in NOT THE ORIGINAL ID IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Instead of standing in front of another judge, you may want to consider buying a book on reading comprehension.

Paul Markham · 03-25-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

Paul...Stop for a moment. Now...Pull your head out of your ass and read the ORIGINAL POST again.

We are not talking about YOU verifying a models ID. We are talking about WEBCAM sites and faxed/mailed in COPIES of ID's. COPIES...As in NOT THE ORIGINAL ID IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Instead of standing in front of another judge, you may want to consider buying a book on reading comprehension.

We're talking about an individual faxing/mailing in a copy of their ID and them maybe being 16 and having altered the copy in Photoshop or some other program. And then having to tell a court you thought a copy was good enough.

Mo one in the court will care about what is convenient for you. They will care about you taking all necessary steps to verify a model for porn work though.

I would of thought after all your years as a shooter you would realise what some girls/guys will do to earn a few dollars modeling.

I'm done debating with this. I just hope no one here ever has to prove they did their utmost and not the most convenient.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We're talking about an individual faxing/mailing in a copy of their ID and them maybe being 16 and having altered the copy in Photoshop or some other program. And then having to tell a court you thought a copy was good enough.

Mo one in the court will care about what is convenient for you. They will care about you taking all necessary steps to verify a model for porn work though.

I'm done debating with this. I just hope no one here ever has to prove they did their utmost and not the most convenient.

There is no REAL debate here. The OP asked a question about apples and you are discussing oranges.

In the webcam world, the webcam site operators NEVER see the original docs in the first place. What part of this are you having difficulty understanding?

marketsmart · 03-25-2010, 11:32 AM

this would be a good time to mention 2257safe.com for KB...

that shit can protect you from everything, including aids...

and forgery........

.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I would of thought after all your years as a shooter you would realise what some girls/guys will do to earn a few dollars modeling.

And I would think that after 103 year of living that you would understand the difference between a model in your studio with ID in hand vs. a model 8,000 miles away who is required to fax or mail her ID.

Since you seem to have a way to verify original ID's from 8k miles away, perhaps you would like to share the details of this amazing feat with the rest of us?

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

this would be a good time to mention 2257safe.com for KB...

that shit can protect you from everything, including aids...

and forgery........

.

Shameless spam that is WAY off topic.

Fake ID's faxed in are still fake ID's. Putting them in 2257safe.com's system doesn't make them valid.

Si · 03-25-2010, 11:37 AM

I would say there is a simple reason, this springs to my mind anyway.

If it is all done digitally/online, how can you sign it properly?

If you download a model release/agreement and fill it out on the computer, how do you then sign it? unless you have a tablet there is no way of doing it. And by signing it I mean a proper signature using your own handwriting and a pen. Not just printing your name.

marketsmart · 03-25-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

Shameless spam that is WAY off topic.

Fake ID's faxed in are still fake ID's. Putting them in 2257safe.com's system doesn't make them valid.

settle down, it was a joke...

i dont even like KB...

.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Si

I would say there is a simple reason, this springs to my mind anyway.

If it is all done digitally/online, how can you sign it properly?

If you download a model release/agreement and fill it out on the computer, how do you then sign it? unless you have a tablet there is no way of doing it. And by signing it I mean a proper signature using your own handwriting and a pen. Not just printing your name.

Yes and no.

I've seen webcam companies who ask you to fax it in to get started then they ask you to follow up by mailing the original doc for the very reason you mention. The topic is model convenience and getting up and running. A digital system is simply faster, less resources required, and the original signed hardcopy can still be mailed if needed.

AaronM · 03-25-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

settle down, it was a joke...

i dont even like KB...

.

Sorry Daddy.

Si · 03-25-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

Yes and no.

I've seen webcam companies who ask you to fax it in to get started then they ask you to follow up by mailing the original doc for the very reason you mention. The topic is model convenience and getting up and running. A digital system is simply faster, less resources required, and the original signed hardcopy can still be mailed if needed.

Oh right! well that's interesting and makes sense.

D Ghost · 03-25-2010, 05:08 PM

Interesting info In This Thread

03-25-2010, 02:22 AM	#1
SJCollegeboy Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Francisco Posts: 545	Online Performer Agreement and Age Verification Forms Can someone please inform me as to why the webcam companies don't allow models to do the Performer Agreement and Age verification forms online? Downloading, completing them, then scanning or faxing them back seems so unnecessary and they probably lose at least 20% of their prospective models in that process. So, there must be a reason that none of them do it. Real business question. Please enlighten me. __________________ Email: phuntimes (at) me.com Skype: sjcolle

03-25-2010, 02:42 AM	#2
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Because they can be easily forged and land the web cam company in a ton of shit. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

03-25-2010, 03:10 AM	#4
SJCollegeboy Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Francisco Posts: 545	Thanks for taking care of that one for me Aaron. Can we get some legal input here from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. What's the difference in scanning/faxing back a digital copy of those Performer Agreement forms and storing a digital copy of those same forms that were created online. __________________ Email: phuntimes (at) me.com Skype: sjcolle

03-25-2010, 04:29 AM	#10
Twoface31 Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,746	hey there i think you need to use your coconut head........ __________________ Email: [email protected] HentaiG4h * Lusty Life ICQ: 291-953

03-25-2010, 04:59 AM	#12
magpan Guest Posts: n/a	I should mention one further item: 2257 systems on cam sites have evolved immensely since late 2008 (with many more requirements to maintain compliance). That said, they are quite advanced and log nearly every activity that ever happens on the site (clips of every session (if not the full sessions themselves), recorded chats, videos, uploaded pictures, chat logs (even in free text chat), etc...) with these items being recorded, organized, and indefinitely stored via automation. I'll plug my own product here as VCMS (see sig) comes with such a 2257 back-end (and, we know of no other platform that currently comes with this module as a standard feature). FYI, just trying to be of help and provide a coherent background of what should actually exist to keep everything in order. Last edited by magpan; 03-25-2010 at 05:00 AM.. Reason: Missed a word, sorry :)

03-25-2010, 03:39 AM	#9
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	In fact....A 300dpi scan of a models ID is MUCH clearer than a faxed copy any day of the week. Because of this fact alone, an online system would provide better quality images of ID's and make for much easier detection of fakes. If you argue with that then you're a tool.

03-25-2010, 05:06 AM	#13
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,194	Authentication issues. You're on to something though. Maybe in a few years with more advances in facial recognition software technology along with legislative support, this might be a reality. It would definitely make a lot of other business transactions smoother, faster, and cheaper. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

03-25-2010, 11:32 AM	#18
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	this would be a good time to mention 2257safe.com for KB... that shit can protect you from everything, including aids... and forgery........ .

03-25-2010, 11:37 AM	#21
Si Such Fun! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,900	I would say there is a simple reason, this springs to my mind anyway. If it is all done digitally/online, how can you sign it properly? If you download a model release/agreement and fill it out on the computer, how do you then sign it? unless you have a tablet there is no way of doing it. And by signing it I mean a proper signature using your own handwriting and a pen. Not just printing your name.

03-25-2010, 05:08 PM	#26
D Ghost null Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,820	Interesting info In This Thread