Paxum/Payoneer/Whatever Bashing

[AzteK]

I don't care who you are, how much better you are, wheather you're a rocker or a mossad. You're all the same shit and shouldn't be trusted.

ePass has left with me with such a bad taste in my mouth, you'd have to insure my money or be backed by a American Fortune 500 for me to really use you.

I have on a file, and not in my hand, a VV card number that I can only spend at certain places and is practically worthless. That's money I can be using for what I need to use and I can't. That's a nice amount of my business money in cahoots. Not to mention how long this money has been held hostage, sitting unproductively and it stills is.

Now to you groupies and irresponsible sponsors, choose wisely, your bad decisions effect EVERYONE. You fools.

[seeric]

Your post is proof that there are some people with a brain still residing here.

[FlexxAeon]

+1

the whole thing is ridiculous on a bunch of levels

[closer]

There always will be blind peeps going down the same road over and over again, call it a business model

[Sam - Mr. Skin]

I must say that as a sponsor who has recently added Payoneer as a payment option, I don't consider it irresponsible to add a new option that has been requested by many affiliates. We used Epass as most did to pay our affiliates, but lost no money with their failure as we only put funds in our account to immediately transfer to our affiliates. We want to provide options for non U.S. affiliates who can't afford wire fees or the fees and delays that checks involve. Of course I realize that there are no guarantees that these new services won't suffer the same fate as Epass and I would never recommend that anyone keep large amounts of money in their accounts, but you have to keep in mind that to some people it's worth the risk. At the end of the day it's on them to weigh those risks and make their own decisions.

[BIGTYMER]

Heres a tip:

Don't treat them like a bank.

Treat them like an expiring gift card.

[closer]

Originally Posted by sam_mrskincash

We used Epass as most did to pay our affiliates, but lost no money with their failure as we only put funds in our account to immediately transfer to our affiliates.

Ok, YOU did not loose any money ... so it's all good then huh

[beta-tester]

with new monetary regulations getting out every day, i won't consider anything else than my personal bank account for any financial transactions anymore!

I'd rather wait a week for a cheque and be sure that the money deposited will be 100% available for use by me and only me.

Too many things have gone wrong in the past year that it simply is not sustainable anymore to trust anyone with your money, even banks! But at least your money is insured with them (in most countries).

So, thanks for all the alternatives, but no thanks.

[Sam - Mr. Skin]

Originally Posted by closer

Ok, YOU did not loose any money ... so it's all good then huh

We didn't use it to store money (which I would never recommend) so thankfully didn't lose money like so many others. I feel for those who lost money of course, but every individual has to make their own decisions about how they handle their finances.

Did you really think I was trying to say that I don't care about people losing money? I was just trying to be honest and upfront about our experience.

[V_RocKs]

I put ePassporte as a funding option to my Paypal then sent a friend my VV money and he sent it back and I went to an ATM and didn't need the actual card or my CVV2 number since I did this with my VV a long time ago.

But that is just me...

[lagcam]

I haven't seen any sponsors FORCING people to accept a particular epassporte replacement company. As far as I am aware, every sponsor offers a choice of conventional payment methods and one maybe two of the new alternatives. At this point in time nobody knows who will rise to be the new epassporte, or whether they will all struggle to make the market share they need to survive, and all die.

YOU are the one needs to be paid, so you are the one who must choose how you want to be paid. (Faster and riskier) by an epassporte clone, (slightly slower and more expensive) by wire or (equally safe as a wire but slower) by check.

Do your own research, and ask your favorite spnsors to consider services that tick your boxes. If they don't add them, choose an alternative or find another sponsor that does.

Epassporte made everybody lazy, and now we need to start thinking again.

[DanS]

Whats up with the bashing?

I understand being upset about epass fucking with someones money and playing games.

But how many thousands of dollars epassporte saved you over the years?

If you are an affiliate and have thousands of dollars frozen in your wallet, you are the one to blame.

How different is it really to have a payout sitting and waiting on an affiliate account or on a paxum/cashx account? You carry about the same risk, if you money is sitting with the sponsor or at the paxum account. Just wire it out every $1000 or grab it daily at the ATM.

Don`t be fucking stupid.

The epass disaster is a disaster just because there were no alternatives ready when the shit hit the fan, and not just because it happened.
I have not been able to collect some sponsor payments since the first september payouts, because small checks will kill me.

In the aftermath payoneer, paxum and cashx emerge. How can that be a bad thing?
If one of them decides to make a movie, or funding the mossad war against space aliens, all you have to do is switch payment processors. The situation will be not even close to this epass disaster!

Some guys make me uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhm!

[harvey]

well, the thing is that with the current state of affairs, it's a non-sustainable model, bar none. What people is missing here is that Epass had an almost monopolistic situation with quite high fees and an industry boom.

Now, let's think for a minute.

Business has changed. If affiliates as a whole had 40% of the pie, now they have 20% at best. Granted that there are affiliates who are program owners at the same time, but for ease of conclusions, let's consider them as affiliates only.

On the other hand many webmasters have left business, so no only less money, but also a narrower market.

Let's say Epass had 100,000 users. I doubt they were that much, but it is possible. That number could net them around 5M dollars a year once VISA and SKNANB fees were deducted. The strange thing is SKNANB declared only a little over $100,000 coming from financial processing services for 3rd parties (such as Epass), but since they are money launderers, who knows wtf is the real number, so let's stick with that net 5M.

Now, let's say 20% of adult webmasters left business. We're at 80,000 accounts now.

People burnt by Epass who will never touch a solution like that (people from US, people who will use checks and/or wires): around 25% (being optimistic, it could be 50% or even more). We're at 60,000 accounts. However, that 25% could easily be the biggest amount in money. But let's make it all the same to keep it simple.

People that will stick to Paypal: 20% and we're at 48000 accounts.

Now, those 48000 accounts aren't bad biz at all, still enough to net a nice 2/3M a year.

But the thing is that, unlike the previous situation, there are more actors now. So let's consider Payoneer and Paxum will take an equal lion's share of 30% leaving OKPay, Cash-X and a 3rd option of all the remaining companies with 10%

So Payoneer and Paxum could net between 600 and 900k a year (that would require anywhere between 10,000 and 15,000 users). Not bad. everybody else would be at 200/300k per year.

But here's the thing: when I say NET I mean after processing fees by banks, ATM and MC. I'm not considering taxes, fixed costs, marketing, servers, SSL, employees, offices and so on.

If we had to believe Paxum and its 35 employees, let's say they earn on average a quite modest sum of $2000 a month. That makes 70k a month, 840,000 a year. The most optimistic figures would barely cover the employees costs and nothing else.

Of course I don't believe for a second they have 35 employees, not inside their UPS box, not anywhere in the world. I'd be very worried if that was true, it would be like them screaming really hard "we'll disappear in a couple months!".

You may ask "so what's in it for them to try to work on this?" and the answer is simple: it's all about the wallet, baby. If you check Paxum's page, you'll see this:

By opening an account with Paxum, you automatically create yourself a current account in our e-wallet system.

I explained in another thread what the e-wallet feature really means, but if in doubt, check what happened with Epassporte's wallet funds. I'm not saying any of these new companies will do the same, but nobody can deny it SEEMS like they're having an escape plan just in case.

You may say: "well, what about no wallet"? And the answer is even more simple: without the e-wallet feature, these companies couldn't last more than a few months. As easy as that. Epassporte with its market domination AND MILLIONS IN E-WALLET lasted several years. For companies that at best will take 10-12% of Epassporte's share, the e-wallet isn't a feature: it's a necessity. So if Epass lasted 7/8 years with everything on their side, these companies will last no more than 1/2 years at best. Simple financial maths.

There's a last scenario where all these companies try to cape the storm as "basement operations" until the dust settles and other competitors get out of the race. That could work. As a matter of fact, it's the only way I could see it working, but... are you willing to trust your money to a "basement operation"? They have very low costs, but at the same time they face more troubles with less infrastructure and they have no backup plan.

Paragraph apart for Payoneer: they were in the market before the others, they have a broader market and allegedly they belong to CIA and Mossad. They also are financially way smarter than everybody else (surprise surprise). I doubt they will run away, but if they do, good luck asking for your money to CIA and Mossad

All the above being said, I'll use 2 or 3 of these solutions. Will never leave more than a few dollars if anything, but I understand the need for this kind of solutions for my clients, so investing a few bucks on some risky business won't make much harm, IMHO.

In short: do whatever you want, you all are grown ups. Just be careful and never relax on your security measures or you'll end fucked. AGAIN.

[bhutocracy]

Not the case. After the massive fuckup that Epass was we went with the most corporate and reliable provider we could find. Unlike Paxum/Payoneer which both have their card issued by the same offshore international bank chartered in Belize, for US webmasters Ipayout's card is issued by a FDIC insured US bank and for anyone you can choose to not even have a card, just get the payments made to your existing Visa or MC credit or debit card. Also, 140 US and International banks they have relationships with.. BoA, HSBC, Deutsche Bank etc. 3 redundant data centers in differrent locations. They've been a mainstream provider for 5 years and aren't an upstart webmaster convention drinks buying bro's focussed thing.
Streamate and AEBN are going with them.
Anyways.. not putting Paxum or Payoneer down, they both look like great solutions, just there are different providers out there.

[botfurom]

Do not put all your money in there, I have left 5k in ePass and still not in my bank account.

[bhutocracy]

Originally Posted by harvey

well, the thing is that with the current state of affairs, it's a non-sustainable model, bar none. What people is missing here is that Epass had an almost monopolistic situation with quite high fees and an industry boom.

If IPayout and Payoneer (at the very least) could prosper in mainstream for half a decade why do you think the size of the adult industry is going to affect them?

[harvey]

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

If IPayout and Payoneer (at the very least) could prosper in mainstream for half a decade why do you think the size of the adult industry is going to affect them?

I didn't even heard about IPayout before, thus I didn't even mention them in my post

As for Payoneer, even though my Engrish is sucking bad nowadays, I still can see it very clear in my post:

Originally Posted by harvey

Paragraph apart for Payoneer: they were in the market before the others, they have a broader market and allegedly they belong to CIA and Mossad. They also are financially way smarter than everybody else (surprise surprise). I doubt they will run away, but if they do, good luck asking for your money to CIA and Mossad

[Jason Voorhees]

Originally Posted by BIGTYMER

Heres a tip:

Don't treat them like a bank.

Treat them like an expiring gift card.

[lagcam]

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

Not the case. After the massive fuckup that Epass was we went with the most corporate and reliable provider we could find. Unlike Paxum/Payoneer which both have their card issued by the same offshore international bank chartered in Belize, for US webmasters Ipayout's card is issued by a FDIC insured US bank and for anyone you can choose to not even have a card, just get the payments made to your existing Visa or MC credit or debit card. Also, 140 US and International banks they have relationships with.. BoA, HSBC, Deutsche Bank etc. 3 redundant data centers in differrent locations. They've been a mainstream provider for 5 years and aren't an upstart webmaster convention drinks buying bro's focussed thing.
Streamate and AEBN are going with them.
Anyways.. not putting Paxum or Payoneer down, they both look like great solutions, just there are different providers out there.

Posts like this are the problem.

Unknown, unaccountable people making "cheerleaders" posts for a particular product or service without specifying if they are a user, an owner, a paid rep or just somebody who has read their website and regurgitated their marketing speak as gospel.

My question is if "ipayout" have been a mainstream provider for 5 years, why do they have a website that looks like it was knocked up a few minutes after epassporte folded?

[bhutocracy]

Originally Posted by harvey

I didn't even heard about IPayout before, thus I didn't even mention them in my post

As for Payoneer, even though my Engrish is sucking bad nowadays, I still can see it very clear in my post:

Yeah but you try and explain it away because it doesn't conform to the thrust of your post.. But anyways.. I get it that it applies to whatever adult focussed ones there are out there. Which is precisely why we went with mainstream and corporate. Actually if you look at the truly corporate adult companies - AEBN, Streamates, Friend Finder Networks etc they're all going for I-payout. You might not have heard of them yet, they don't have the adult board thing down yet etc, but you no doubt will as more of the larger companies start using them. Anyways i'll shut it before I start sounding like a I-pay rep.. just I did a lot of comparative research with the different providers.. so..

[bhutocracy]

Originally Posted by lagcam

Posts like this are the problem.

Unknown, unaccountable people making "cheerleaders" posts for a particular product or service without specifying if they are a user, an owner, a paid rep or just somebody who has read their website and regurgitated their marketing speak as gospel.

My question is if "ipayout" have been a mainstream provider for 5 years, why do they have a website that looks like it was knocked up a few minutes after epassporte folded?

Unknown and unaccountable eh? I've been posting here for almost a decade and it's not hard to find out who I am and what I do... it's right there in my sig. I know the other companies that are signing on with them because I'm in communication with them in regards to setting them with Gunzblazing.com.. I know a few more companies in the process of setting them up but unlike the above ones they're more likely to post here and I don't want to pre-empt their news releases. It's not because I've read the website. I'm not a fucking paid rep of anything.
Yeah, when I first went to their site I wasn't crash hot on it.. It was only after I used their system which I liked I kinda realised they were just boring and corporate and that was the reason for it. They probably should splash out on a payoneer style 2.0 thing but really what I want out of a service is reliability and features (not saying payoneer doesn't have that) and obviously they're doing ok without the fancy design. Don't use them, I honestly don't care. Just I've got a big Excel spreadsheet of everyone on Gunz who's waiting on a replacement for Epass which means I know the names of hundreds of people who got fucked and we've literally just got them up and running and here's someone basically taking a shit on the work we've just done integrating them - so I naturally defend. I'm just an argumentative cunt like that eh?

[Sam - Mr. Skin]

Originally Posted by lagcam

I haven't seen any sponsors FORCING people to accept a particular epassporte replacement company. As far as I am aware, every sponsor offers a choice of conventional payment methods and one maybe two of the new alternatives. At this point in time nobody knows who will rise to be the new epassporte, or whether they will all struggle to make the market share they need to survive, and all die.

YOU are the one needs to be paid, so you are the one who must choose how you want to be paid. (Faster and riskier) by an epassporte clone, (slightly slower and more expensive) by wire or (equally safe as a wire but slower) by check.

Do your own research, and ask your favorite spnsors to consider services that tick your boxes. If they don't add them, choose an alternative or find another sponsor that does.

Epassporte made everybody lazy, and now we need to start thinking again.

Well said.