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Old 01-08-2018, 07:39 AM   #101
CarlosTheGaucho
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Originally Posted by thommy View Post
i think there is really NOBODY here what underestimates the danger what comes out of this religion.

i did never speak FOR islam (as i would never speak for any religion) I just see a problem and different solutions.
all solutions i here from people like paul are short term and all logic tells me that this is just making the problem bigger with the time.

so if we do nothing it is a question of time til they eat us alive.

fact is that trying to stop that with hate and power will produce the opposite effect - i hope we can agree at that point.

that logically leads to the fact that it is just a question of time til this oppoite effect have reached that many people that they are able to overrun us.

that means: it is a VERY BAD idea and you do not need many braincells to see that.
I am strongly the meaning that we have no business in any land under Islamic rule apart from trade (and this trade should be consumer oriented, not selling own strategical assets or guns - wishful thinking I know).

However, if you were to judge an ideology based on its doctrine (and not based on the followers who often in fact don't follow its doctrine at all, especially in the West) I'd even go as far as to state that Islam equally has no place in lands that are not ruled by it.

There is one principal reason, this ideology has a very strong political part, a total solution not only for its followers, but for the whole world. More than half of its doctrine is not about how to be a follower of Islam, but about how to plot against those that don't follow it, and how to spread Islam in power and numbers, until its reign is absolute.

Based on the history and its doctrine, the nature of Islam is not to come and co-exist. The purpose of Islamic migration (hijra - migration in the name of Allah) which has a massive importance in Islam (after all the Islamic calendar doesn't start with the birth of Muhammad or with his first revelation - 622 AD is the year of Hijra, after he migrated to Medina and started the process of taking over) is different. The purpose is to eventually take over, no matter if by force or by entering the political process. And it doesn't matter how long it takes, in some countries, such as Anatollya (today's Turkey that used to be exclusively Christian) it took centuries to get to the point where Turkey is today 99.7 pct. Islamic. Such is the strength of the doctrine.

There is no land in history that Islam ever entered that would become post-Islamic, unless using brute force (reconquista in Spain, to some extent also parts of Eastern Europe eventually liberating itself from the rule of Ottoman Empire). Up until the 1950's or so, it has been common sense that Islam is pretty much incompatible with any secular, democratic, in fact any non-Islamic society. What has changed ever since? Certainly not Islam.

Today - the official policy on the West is appeasement, certain "sensitive" type of crime is not reported about, Islam can't be critically discussed in public, stating any facts that are negative towards Islam can as much as land you in jail in some western countries (more than 200 years after we get rid of blasphemy laws related to our own Church), make you lose a job or business. This is a true recipe for disaster, and if there ever is a backlash (and there will be eventually if nothing changes) it may as well be much more due to these policies of appeasement, censorship and "religious" and political prosecution then due to any "-phobia".

One can note that one of the major principles of Sha'ria after Islam enters a Kaffir (non-Islamic) civilization is to establish the command over the Kuffir and make them submit to Islamic requests. So far, many governments, businesses and organizations in the West certainly are very good at that.

The principal issue, there is an ideology that wants to spread their influence and eventually win, but we just want to tie - get along.

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Originally Posted by thommy View Post
I personally know a few muslim in germany and call them friends. i drink bear with them and even eat pork meat together with them.
what i can observe in the past few years on these people (what i really know for a long long time) that they are feeling more and more like strangers in the country where they are born - just because you can see on their ethnic that they are not german.
they start to feel.
they are facing so much hate just for their look that the only chance they have is to meet with other muslim because they do not face hate there.
i am really scared that people like that are one day FORCED to decide for one of the both groups. and for sure they will not decide for the group what hates them.
Certainly know a few people of Turkish or Middle Eastern descent who may technically qualify as Muslim, but show absolutely no signs of being a follower of Islam. The only thing they want is to get on with their lives, they may be as "western" as you and me.

For sure this is a very pitiful and unwanted thing if people fear or avoid them. But what is also important to understand - these so called moderates and secular guys who simply want to get on with their lives, maybe have affection for their secular country and neighbors, would likely also be the first victims if Islam ever gains enough power.

Islam is an authoritative system, there is only one choice - to submit, there's no space for personal choice, under Islamic rule, these so called moderates can be very easily pronounced Takfir (Muslims that don't follow the doctrine and can be treated as Kaffir) and treated as such.

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this is why i say that near to 100% of all past terror attacks in the past 10 years have been created by haters what think they are the supremacist race and do not even have the brain of an aunt.

if one of them even would take the time to look at al jazeera and see the other side of the medal and the information and pictures what this people get to see would possibly understand why it is important to show them that we are not dangerous for them, that we do not want to kill them and that would possibly makes them open to listen.

education is a slow process but the one and only what can work here.
The principal issue is that the Jihadis not only "think" they are supremacist, the ideology that is supposed to control their lives, and that is supposed to be "the word of god" and a "perfect, final and universal" ideology for the whole world, dictates it. That is the core, systemic issue.

Islam + natural primitiveness it encourages or the opposite, Islam + smarts and being able to use it to control masses (such as its "prophet" did), leads to horrendous results as we can see throughout the history, all across the Islamic lands and today even across the Islamic communities in the west.

I believe that the only thing that can end this is not appeasement, but a thorough education about what Islam is and confronting it ideologically. Not only among those outside of it, but also those "moderates" who often also know very little about it. If there ever will be one thing that will defeat Islam, it will be critical thought. One should also know which principles he wants to live by and where are the borders of what such principles allow and what not.

By the way, and this illustrates it well - one of the Shar'ia principles is that "no criticism of Islam is ever allowed" - if there is one thing that threatens the existence of Islam - it is criticism and critical thought. It's not a coincidence that so called "hate speech laws" were first brought up in UN by the Soviet Union in 1948 and then by OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) in 1999 - totality always has to censor speech and prosecute those that criticize it in order to stay in power.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:53 AM   #102
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I am strongly the meaning that we have no business in any land under Islamic rule apart from trade (and this trade should be consumer oriented, not selling own strategical assets or guns - wishful thinking I know).

However, if you were to judge an ideology based on its doctrine (and not based on the followers who often in fact don't follow its doctrine at all, especially in the West) I'd even go as far as to state that Islam equally has no place in lands that are not ruled by it.

There is one principal reason, this ideology has a very strong political part, a total solution not only for its followers, but for the whole world. More than half of its doctrine is not about how to be a follower of Islam, but about how to plot against those that don't follow it, and how to spread Islam in power and numbers, until its reign is absolute.

Based on the history and its doctrine, the nature of Islam is not to come and co-exist. The purpose of Islamic migration (hijra - migration in the name of Allah) which has a massive importance in Islam (after all the Islamic calendar doesn't start with the birth of Muhammad or with his first revelation - 622 AD is the year of Hijra, after he migrated to Medina and started the process of taking over) is different. The purpose is to eventually take over, no matter if by force or by entering the political process. And it doesn't matter how long it takes, in some countries, such as Anatollya (today's Turkey that used to be exclusively Christian) it took centuries to get to the point where Turkey is today 99.7 pct. Islamic. Such is the strength of the doctrine.

There is no land in history that Islam ever entered that would become post-Islamic, unless using brute force (reconquista in Spain, to some extent also parts of Eastern Europe eventually liberating itself from the rule of Ottoman Empire). Up until the 1950's or so, it has been common sense that Islam is pretty much incompatible with any secular, democratic, in fact any non-Islamic society. What has changed ever since? Certainly not Islam.

Today - the official policy on the West is appeasement, certain "sensitive" type of crime is not reported about, Islam can't be critically discussed in public, stating any facts that are negative towards Islam can as much as land you in jail in some western countries (more than 200 years after we get rid of blasphemy laws related to our own Church), make you lose a job or business. This is a true recipe for disaster, and if there ever is a backlash (and there will be eventually) it will be much more due to these policies of appeasement, censorship and "religious" and political prosecution then due to any "-phobia".

One can note that one of the major principles of Sha'ria after Islam enters a Kaffir (non-Islamic) civilization is to establish the command over the Kuffir and make them submit to Islamic requests. So far, many governments, businesses and organizations in the West certainly are very good at that.

The principal issue, there is an ideology that wants to spread their influence and eventually win, but we just want to tie - get along.



Certainly know a few people of Turkish or Middle Eastern descent who may technically qualify as Muslim, but show absolutely no signs of being a follower of Islam. The only thing they want is to get on with their lives, they may be as "western" as you and me.

For sure this is a very pitiful and unwanted thing if people fear or avoid them. But what is also important to understand - these so called moderates and secular guys who simply want to get on with their lives, maybe have affection for their secular country and neighbors, would likely also be the first victims if Islam ever gains enough power.

Islam is an authoritative system, there is only one choice - to submit, there's no space for personal choice, under Islamic rule, these so called moderates can be very easily pronounced Takfir (Muslims that don't follow the doctrine and can be treated as Kaffir) and treated as such.



The principal issue is that the Jihadis not only "think" they are supremacist, the ideology that is supposed to control their lives, and that is supposed to be "the word of god" and a "perfect, final and universal" ideology for the whole world, dictates it. That is the core, systemic issue.

Islam + natural primitiveness it encourages or the opposite, Islam + smarts and being able to use it to control masses (such as its "prophet" did), leads to horrendous results as we can see throughout the history, all across the Islamic lands and today even across the Islamic communities in the west.

I believe that the only thing that can end this is not appeasement, but a thorough education about what Islam is and confronting it ideologically. Not only among those outside of it, but also those "moderates" who often also know very little about it. If there ever will be one thing that will defeat Islam, it will be critical thought. One should also know which principles he wants to live by and where are the borders of what such principles allow and what not.

By the way, and this illustrates it well - one of the Shar'ia principles is that "no criticism of Islam is ever allowed" - if there is one thing that threatens the existence of Islam - it is criticism and critical thought. It's not a coincidence that so called "hate speech laws" were first brought up in UN by the Soviet Union in 1948 and then by OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) in 1999 - totality always has to censor speech and prosecute those that criticize it in order to stay in power.
very good points. However, thats the thing with instutionalized religions I believe...take a look at all these Christian missionairs or Jehova witnesses...they all want to expand their population of sheep.
If there ever will be one thing that will defeat Islam, it will be critical thought.
I bet that all these brainwashing imams will be so unhappy with it.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:57 AM   #103
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:05 AM   #104
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...
your solution is SHORT TERM with an obvious final - what we need is a LONGTERM
SOLUTION
...
you will receive another Hitler in the shot period time.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:06 AM   #105
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:43 PM   #106
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Why do you assume Muslims aren't Right Wing?

They hate foreigners, their own kind, women are second class, they dislike democracy, their rules mandate execution for the smallest of crimes, they don't allow people to leave the religion, they don't allow their children to marry outside the religion. They hate the Jews as much as Hitler and the only thing stopping them overrunning Israel is they would get their asses kicked. So much for a Holy War Kicking other Muslims asses is easier.

Do you need me to go on?

Explain why you think Muslims deserve a different judgement to white people.
why do you keep saying Muslims? they make up over a billion people on the planet. Would you label all christians as the same demo? For someone who is completely isolated from the rest of the planet these days you sure have a lot to say about immigrants and Muslims in general.

You need a new hobby Paul. You suck at politics and debate on anything as a whole it seems.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:52 PM   #107
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I am strongly the meaning that we have no business in any land under Islamic rule apart from trade (and this trade should be consumer oriented, not selling own strategical assets or guns - wishful thinking I know).

However, if you were to judge an ideology based on its doctrine (and not based on the followers who often in fact don't follow its doctrine at all, especially in the West) I'd even go as far as to state that Islam equally has no place in lands that are not ruled by it.

There is one principal reason, this ideology has a very strong political part, a total solution not only for its followers, but for the whole world. More than half of its doctrine is not about how to be a follower of Islam, but about how to plot against those that don't follow it, and how to spread Islam in power and numbers, until its reign is absolute.

Based on the history and its doctrine, the nature of Islam is not to come and co-exist. The purpose of Islamic migration (hijra - migration in the name of Allah) which has a massive importance in Islam (after all the Islamic calendar doesn't start with the birth of Muhammad or with his first revelation - 622 AD is the year of Hijra, after he migrated to Medina and started the process of taking over) is different. The purpose is to eventually take over, no matter if by force or by entering the political process. And it doesn't matter how long it takes, in some countries, such as Anatollya (today's Turkey that used to be exclusively Christian) it took centuries to get to the point where Turkey is today 99.7 pct. Islamic. Such is the strength of the doctrine.

There is no land in history that Islam ever entered that would become post-Islamic, unless using brute force (reconquista in Spain, to some extent also parts of Eastern Europe eventually liberating itself from the rule of Ottoman Empire). Up until the 1950's or so, it has been common sense that Islam is pretty much incompatible with any secular, democratic, in fact any non-Islamic society. What has changed ever since? Certainly not Islam.

Today - the official policy on the West is appeasement, certain "sensitive" type of crime is not reported about, Islam can't be critically discussed in public, stating any facts that are negative towards Islam can as much as land you in jail in some western countries (more than 200 years after we get rid of blasphemy laws related to our own Church), make you lose a job or business. This is a true recipe for disaster, and if there ever is a backlash (and there will be eventually if nothing changes) it may as well be much more due to these policies of appeasement, censorship and "religious" and political prosecution then due to any "-phobia".

One can note that one of the major principles of Sha'ria after Islam enters a Kaffir (non-Islamic) civilization is to establish the command over the Kuffir and make them submit to Islamic requests. So far, many governments, businesses and organizations in the West certainly are very good at that.

The principal issue, there is an ideology that wants to spread their influence and eventually win, but we just want to tie - get along.



Certainly know a few people of Turkish or Middle Eastern descent who may technically qualify as Muslim, but show absolutely no signs of being a follower of Islam. The only thing they want is to get on with their lives, they may be as "western" as you and me.

For sure this is a very pitiful and unwanted thing if people fear or avoid them. But what is also important to understand - these so called moderates and secular guys who simply want to get on with their lives, maybe have affection for their secular country and neighbors, would likely also be the first victims if Islam ever gains enough power.

Islam is an authoritative system, there is only one choice - to submit, there's no space for personal choice, under Islamic rule, these so called moderates can be very easily pronounced Takfir (Muslims that don't follow the doctrine and can be treated as Kaffir) and treated as such.



The principal issue is that the Jihadis not only "think" they are supremacist, the ideology that is supposed to control their lives, and that is supposed to be "the word of god" and a "perfect, final and universal" ideology for the whole world, dictates it. That is the core, systemic issue.

Islam + natural primitiveness it encourages or the opposite, Islam + smarts and being able to use it to control masses (such as its "prophet" did), leads to horrendous results as we can see throughout the history, all across the Islamic lands and today even across the Islamic communities in the west.

I believe that the only thing that can end this is not appeasement, but a thorough education about what Islam is and confronting it ideologically. Not only among those outside of it, but also those "moderates" who often also know very little about it. If there ever will be one thing that will defeat Islam, it will be critical thought. One should also know which principles he wants to live by and where are the borders of what such principles allow and what not.

By the way, and this illustrates it well - one of the Shar'ia principles is that "no criticism of Islam is ever allowed" - if there is one thing that threatens the existence of Islam - it is criticism and critical thought. It's not a coincidence that so called "hate speech laws" were first brought up in UN by the Soviet Union in 1948 and then by OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) in 1999 - totality always has to censor speech and prosecute those that criticize it in order to stay in power.
blah blah blah... anything to do with Sharia bullshit is extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers. Also Christians at one point were by far much worse at pushing their beliefs at one point in history and were at war for a thousand years because of it. I do believe that any acts of division or violence by these groups should be grounds for immediate deportation in any nation however painting a broad stroke towards all muslim followers is idiotic and simplistic at best.

How would you react to having all Jews flushed out of your nation because of their beliefs? We are all not so removed from such things and it is hypocritical to think your line of thinking is any different.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:54 PM   #108
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blah blah blah... anything to do with Sharia bullshit is extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers. Also Christians at one point were by far much worse at pushing their beliefs at one point in history and were at war for a thousand years because of it. I do believe that any acts of division or violence by these groups should be grounds for immediate deportation in any nation however painting a broad stroke towards all muslim followers is idiotic and simplistic at best.

How would you react to having all Jews flushed out of your nation because of their beliefs? We are all not so removed from such things and it is hypocritical to think your line of thinking is any different.
Nowadays jews are being terrorised by muslim youth in Amsterdam. We have come full circle!
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Old 01-08-2018, 03:19 PM   #109
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...
By the way, and this illustrates it well - one of the Shar'ia principles is that "no criticism of Islam is ever allowed" - if there is one thing that threatens the existence of Islam - it is criticism and critical thought. It's not a coincidence that so called "hate speech laws" were first brought up in UN by the Soviet Union in 1948 and then by OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) in 1999 - totality always has to censor speech and prosecute those that criticize it in order to stay in power.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:45 AM   #110
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Certainly know a few people of Turkish or Middle Eastern descent who may technically qualify as Muslim, but show absolutely no signs of being a follower of Islam. The only thing they want is to get on with their lives, they may be as "western" as you and me.

For sure this is a very pitiful and unwanted thing if people fear or avoid them. But what is also important to understand - these so called moderates and secular guys who simply want to get on with their lives, maybe have affection for their secular country and neighbors, would likely also be the first victims if Islam ever gains enough power.

Islam is an authoritative system, there is only one choice - to submit, there's no space for personal choice, under Islamic rule, these so called moderates can be very easily pronounced Takfir (Muslims that don't follow the doctrine and can be treated as Kaffir) and treated as such.
I doubt very much that Thommy knows any Muslims, he probably has some Muslim acquaintances. Knowing someone is a different level.

To be a Muslim one must adhere to what the Quran commands. And that is very well described in your post.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:49 AM   #111
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why do you keep saying Muslims? they make up over a billion people on the planet. Would you label all christians as the same demo? For someone who is completely isolated from the rest of the planet these days you sure have a lot to say about immigrants and Muslims in general.

You need a new hobby Paul. You suck at politics and debate on anything as a whole it seems.
Read the Quran and decide for yourself if it's Liberal or Right Wing.

Would I label Christians as Right Wing? Good question. Certainly, some are Right of Center, but none demand death for Blasphemy, Flogging, Women as Second Class, Slavery, etc. Well no sane ones.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:53 AM   #112
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blah blah blah... anything to do with Sharia bullshit is extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers. Also Christians at one point were by far much worse at pushing their beliefs at one point in history and were at war for a thousand years because of it. I do believe that any acts of division or violence by these groups should be grounds for immediate deportation in any nation however painting a broad stroke towards all muslim followers is idiotic and simplistic at best.

How would you react to having all Jews flushed out of your nation because of their beliefs? We are all not so removed from such things and it is hypocritical to think your line of thinking is any different.
Very true. We executed our last blasphemer 300 years ago, banned slavery, gave women equal rights, etc. They are in our past and in Islam today.

How do you react to Sunni Muslims killing Shia Muslims today?
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:23 AM   #113
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I doubt very much that Thommy knows any Muslims, he probably has some Muslim acquaintances. Knowing someone is a different level.

To be a Muslim one must adhere to what the Quran commands. And that is very well described in your post.
what you doubt or not is not important.
your problem is that you have such a small brain that you do not even understand the consequences of what you are praising.

1. I am with you when it comes to the definition what islam is.
I really know that this religion (as many others) have no other target as to keep
people stupid and make them slaves without knowing that they are.

so far so good.

2. what you are planning to do is keep them outside and let them breed.
let them teach their children the stories of how much we hate them (what is in parts
not even a lie). than wait til they are strong and united (all of them - also the ones
what are far for terrorism now) and then they will come to do what they got teached.
they will kill us all because they are MUCH MUCH MORE.

so what you want is to get them out of our eyes til this day comes.

and you REALLY THINK THAT THIS IS SMART.

someone who have such a solution in his mind can not be called smart. he can not even be called educated.
i wonder how you could make a life with your brain if not in a country where costs are so
low that even an unemployed from any other country could live there quite ok.

i doubt that you would have survived in the reality - sorry you are simply too dumb for that.

if you would be even a bit smart you would see that the one and only chance we have is to try to spread education to them.
and no we can not do that with them IN THEIR countries because the education would not reach them.
but we can try it with them what are here. and even when we are not successful 100% with each one who got it we have a multiplicator who can possibly change 2 others in his entire life.

i did never say this is a fast process - but it is the ONLY possible way to try what has a 50/50 chance to resolve that without loosing millions of life.

if this 50/50 chance do not work we are fucked anyway !
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:52 AM   #114
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what you doubt or not is not important.
your problem is that you have such a small brain that you do not even understand the consequences of what you are praising.

1. I am with you when it comes to the definition what islam is.
I really know that this religion (as many others) have no other target as to keep
people stupid and make them slaves without knowing that they are.

so far so good.
So far so good.

Quote:
2. what you are planning to do is keep them outside and let them breed.
let them teach their children the stories of how much we hate them (what is in parts
not even a lie). than wait til they are strong and united (all of them - also the ones
what are far for terrorism now) and then they will come to do what they got teached.
they will kill us all because they are MUCH MUCH MORE.
Until you're prepared to go to the ME and tackle the root of the problem the problem grows. What do you think the chances are of that working? As for allowing them all into the West to educate them. Nice dream. "and you REALLY THINK THAT THIS IS SMART."



Quote:
someone who have such a solution in his mind can not be called smart. he can not even be called educated.
i wonder how you could make a life with your brain if not in a country where costs are so
low that even an unemployed from any other country could live there quite ok.
How would your solution work? Considering changing a complete religions belief is the hardest thing to do.

Quote:
if you would be even a bit smart you would see that the one and only chance we have is to try to spread education to them.
and no we can not do that with them IN THEIR countries because the education would not reach them.
but we can try it with them what are here. and even when we are not successful 100% with each one who got it we have a multiplicator who can possibly change 2 others in his entire life.
If you don't change the way they think in the ME then stop them coming into the West until you have educated those here.

Quote:
i did never say this is a fast process - but it is the ONLY possible way to try what has a 50/50 chance to resolve that without loosing millions of life.

if this 50/50 chance do not work we are fucked anyway !
Not if we keep them out. You might as well say giving in to Hitler and educating Germans from the 40s while they rampage across Europe. Was better than resisting them. You don't educate a lion by putting your head into its mouth. Your solution involves taking a massive risk in the hope it will work.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:11 AM   #115
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why do you keep saying Muslims? they make up over a billion people on the planet. Would you label all christians as the same demo? For someone who is completely isolated from the rest of the planet these days you sure have a lot to say about immigrants and Muslims in general.

You need a new hobby Paul. You suck at politics and debate on anything as a whole it seems.
The argument against mass migration of any nationality is easier to make.

Mass migration encourages the lowest paid/skilled to migrate to a richer country. They bring little and put enormous strain on services like housing, healthcare, education, policing, prisons, jobs and wages. Either you, as someone who earns a decent wage, pay more taxes to meet the new demands or your country sinks into further debt.

A quick look at a pie chart or where the US spends its tax revenues shows the problems.



Social security, Education, housing, and health rise as more people rely on the Government for support. With falling or stagnating wages, for most, there is no extra tax revenue coming in. Will you or your grandchildren pay the debt?

Population reduction is the sensible solution.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:29 AM   #116
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How would your solution work? Considering changing a complete religions belief is the hardest thing to do.
i told you already 50/50 while your solution have NO chance at all.
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:47 AM   #117
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what about THINKING that graphic a bit?

3% education versus 16% military + 4% veterans

+6% interest on debt

that already answers EVERY question !

but all your spendings on that graphic must have an income part too.

so form WHO do you think all this is paid if there are only unemployed in the country?
and how much tax is paid by someone who makes 600 dollar per month as housemaid?
and WHICH american will do that job?

did you ever think about how many american women CAN go to work and pay tax BECAUSE they can pay for a housemaid ?

btw.: an illegal immigrant can not ask for money when he is without job - did you realize that?

you are in such a small thinking circle and the worst is that you do not have the smallest clue about economy.

you think that everybody who was in charge of that yet has no clue but you have. HOW COMES ?
and how comes that you think that the one and only who REALLY do not have a clue about world economy (trump) is the right one for this job?

and what a fuck have your argumenst to do with REFUGEES ????

letīs close the cicle and say:

the refugee problem is caused by

16% + 4% military spendings.
with other words: americans made a lot of debts to finance this refugee problem and now looking for the guilty ones what they will NOT find outside of USA.

the good old way do not work - they just moving the problem a bit in the future - but the even older ways will not work either.
time for new brains - not old rotten ones.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:03 AM   #118
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...
2. what you are planning to do is keep them outside and let them breed.
let them teach their children the stories of how much we hate them (what is in parts
not even a lie). than wait til they are strong and united (all of them - also the ones
what are far for terrorism now) and then they will come to do what they got teached.
they will kill us all because they are MUCH MUCH MORE.
...
They do not want to kill us, just world caliphate with all will be Muslims. It is their version globalization.
PS: believing in Knowledge and Education atheism and gas Zarin attack as proof only
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:54 AM   #119
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blah blah blah... anything to do with Sharia bullshit is extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers. Also Christians at one point were by far much worse at pushing their beliefs at one point in history and were at war for a thousand years because of it. I do believe that any acts of division or violence by these groups should be grounds for immediate deportation in any nation however painting a broad stroke towards all muslim followers is idiotic and simplistic at best.

How would you react to having all Jews flushed out of your nation because of their beliefs? We are all not so removed from such things and it is hypocritical to think your line of thinking is any different.
Notice one crucial thing - you're speaking about Muslims (a person) I'm talking about Islam (an ideology) - those are two very different things.

This is a very important distinction - Muslims do not constitute what Islam is, it goes the other way - Islam is the ideology that should rule over every aspect of their lives (and as codified in the Islamic doctrine, eventually also over those outside of Islam).

The level of dedication and piousness among the followers of any cult or ideology may move on the scale from 0 to 100 pct. or anywhere in between. Same way as someone who claims to be Christian may steal, lie and commit adultery, the same way somebody who claims to subscribe to Islam too may not act in accordance with its doctrine.

In order to decide about a level of dedication and piousness, one would have to be able to read thoughts of every single one of out of over a billion of them. Some that do not live under Islamic rule may not practice Islam at all, and one can be quite confident that many will know very little or close to nothing about the Islamic doctrine in the first place.

Anyway, to advocate or defend a totalitarian ideology based on the fact that a part of its followers do not adhere to it or know very little about it is not exactly comforting either.

This is a very bold claim worth a reaction though:

"anything to do with Sharia bullshit is extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers."

Are you aware what Sha'ria constitutes?

Most westerners may have some remote idea about an ancient legal system, that is just a part of it though. Shar'ia is a complete manual on how to run a civilization according to the doctrine of Islam. Based on the fundamental principle that the doctrine is "perfect, universal, final" and nothing can contradict it.

It can be divided into two parts one of which deals mainly with the five pillars of Islam and is mostly religious (al-ibadat) and other part that deals with "human interaction" (al-muamalat) that is practical and political and prescribes how to run a society and civilization based on the doctrine of Islam, often in the most meticulous detail.

It covers just about any situation in life, religious affairs, family, business, criminal code, rule over the Kaffir, Jihad, war and peace etc. etc. Issues that a western person may find repulsive such as child marriages (selling underage daughters into marriage), stoning for adultery, death for apostasy, first cousin marriage, wife beating, second class citizen status for women and third class citizen status for non-muslims - that all can be found there.

What is important to understand here is that everything included in such manual has to be 100 pct. in accordance with the doctrine (found in the Qu'Ran or in the Sunna of Mohammad). It's not some "extreme" application of Islam, it is Islam exactly according to its doctrine - every rule, every prescription in this manual is to be exactly found in the doctrine of Islam.

Sha'ria claims to be the only applicable God's law and is supposed to replace any and all man made form of government. It includes the Kaffir (non believers) and is supposed to rule over them (propagation of Sha'ria is even banned on legal grounds in 18 US states if I am not mistaken).

Now of course there is formal (mandated to various extent in many lands under Islamic rule) and informal application of Sha'ria (applied voluntarily in the Islamic lands and Islamic communities worldwide).

Here's a fine map that may help with getting a better idea about the influence of Sha'ria in today's Islamic world, the article includes also a nice table with details for each country:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applic...law_by_country

As you can see, in many countries the presence of Sha'ria is not formally codified in its legal system (a legacy of western presence that usually tried to add aspects of continental law), however, Islamic communities typically still apply Shar'ia among each other informally (see also Shar'ia courts in Britain or across other European Islamic communities).

According to Pew Research, the support for Sha'ria being the official law in Islamic lands among Muslims may go anywhere from 8 pct. in Azerbaidjan up to to 99 pct. in Afghanistan.

Here's even a graph:



This is an important metrics, especially if you consider some of Shari'as provisions "extreme". If these numbers would be representative, then we are certainly not talking about "extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers".

One could even ask, do we really believe that those coming from these regions will abandon such dedication to the Islamic way of running a civilization instantly the moment they set foot into a non-Islamic country? Whereas the same doctrine commands them to "migrate in the name of Allah"?
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:45 AM   #120
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yet, if hundreds of people would fire fireworks that way in Poland, there would be already riot police deployed or such people fined for few hundred euros each one.
Where was the German police that time ?
i support this opinion. beside strict laws in Poland, no one sane would ever think about firing fireworks at some1 because we are taugh in childhood that we should do responsible with fireworks, moms and dads always says that here to kids.
i guess it's just part of our culture.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:19 AM   #121
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>Where was the German police that time ?

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Old 01-12-2018, 11:42 AM   #122
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It covers just about any situation in life, religious affairs, family, business, criminal code, rule over the Kaffir, Jihad, war and peace etc. etc. Issues that a western person may find repulsive such as child marriages (selling underage daughters into marriage), stoning for adultery, death for apostasy, first cousin marriage, wife beating, second class citizen status for women and third class citizen status for non-muslims - that all can be found there.

What is important to understand here is that everything included in such manual has to be 100 pct. in accordance with the doctrine (found in the Qu'Ran or in the Sunna of Mohammad). It's not some "extreme" application of Islam, it is Islam exactly according to its doctrine - every rule, every prescription in this manual is to be exactly found in the doctrine of Islam.

Sha'ria claims to be the only applicable God's law and is supposed to replace any and all man made form of government. It includes the Kaffir (non believers) and is supposed to rule over them (propagation of Sha'ria is even banned on legal grounds in 18 US states if I am not mistaken).
good post. and this shows how retarded are bilions of people that follow ALL religions like sheep and all these rules. YEAH, BILLIONS. hard to imagine, right ?

Albania - 12 % of Muslims pro Sharia, Kosovo - 20 %, Azerbejdzan - 8 % ???

Thanks to the communists for the atheism
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:48 AM   #123
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> In Russia BLACK people are free

comrade, but is it possible for BLACK people to behave like that in RUSland ?
or they will be beaten like in Imperalist America ?
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:56 PM   #124
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comrade, but is it possible for BLACK people to behave like that in RUSland ? or they will be beaten like in Imperalist America ?
in Russia can be possible all
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:12 PM   #125
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in Russia can be possible all
COSMOS
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:06 PM   #126
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thommy: islamic terror attacks across Europe started when the migrant crisis started. Do you think there is a connection? Yes or no answer will do.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:43 PM   #127
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thommy: islamic terror attacks across Europe started when the migrant crisis started. Do you think there is a connection? Yes or no answer will do.
nope - there have been terror attacks long before - but your conclusion is wrong because you are talking about europe and do not see the whole world.

letīs say it like this: 30 years ago there have not been that much broken mobile phones in europe as now - and i am pretty sure that since the netherlands lost the final in 2010 against spain in the football WC there are even more broken mobile phones.

so following your logic the netherlands are responsable for broken mobile phones.

the number of terror attacks WORLDWIDE is dramatically increasing since bush went into iraq. that means even when there are still not more attacks than 0,1 % are happening in europe that there are automatically more attacks there.

and YES the refugee crisis brought also a number of people what should not be here but this is a circumstance what should not blame the majority of the refugees who are NOT terrorists. this is also caused by the NUMBER of people and not on the percentage of terrorists inside this group.

you know HOW many deadly problems we have on this planet when we exclude terror?
letīs talk about drugs, letīs talk about AIDS letīs talk about other imported crimes what are killing THOUSANDS of people every fucking day in europe.
if you do not want that you have to make a wall around your country - stop all flights, cars and ships in and out and stop to negotiate with other countries and you will be fine.
welcome to stone age !

you guys have the talent not to see the whole thing. you have the idea that one group of people is responsable for all and everything and you forget that we indeed have MUCH bigger problems we are used to live with already.
you also forget that the problem you want to resolve is getting bigger if you cut them off and donīt even try to change something. you mismatch cause and effect in all and everything no matter if it is regards to economy or humanity.
farseeing is not your talent but this is what we need in this case.
and this is why we do NOT NEED silly ideas from people who think that their own misfortune is made by others as themselves.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:06 AM   #128
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nope - there have been terror attacks long before - but your conclusion is wrong because you are talking about europe and do not see the whole world.

letīs say it like this: 30 years ago there have not been that much broken mobile phones in europe as now - and i am pretty sure that since the netherlands lost the final in 2010 against spain in the football WC there are even more broken mobile phones.

so following your logic the netherlands are responsable for broken mobile phones.

the number of terror attacks WORLDWIDE is dramatically increasing since bush went into iraq. that means even when there are still not more attacks than 0,1 % are happening in europe that there are automatically more attacks there.

and YES the refugee crisis brought also a number of people what should not be here but this is a circumstance what should not blame the majority of the refugees who are NOT terrorists. this is also caused by the NUMBER of people and not on the percentage of terrorists inside this group.

you know HOW many deadly problems we have on this planet when we exclude terror?
letīs talk about drugs, letīs talk about AIDS letīs talk about other imported crimes what are killing THOUSANDS of people every fucking day in europe.
if you do not want that you have to make a wall around your country - stop all flights, cars and ships in and out and stop to negotiate with other countries and you will be fine.
welcome to stone age !

you guys have the talent not to see the whole thing. you have the idea that one group of people is responsable for all and everything and you forget that we indeed have MUCH bigger problems we are used to live with already.
you also forget that the problem you want to resolve is getting bigger if you cut them off and donīt even try to change something. you mismatch cause and effect in all and everything no matter if it is regards to economy or humanity.
farseeing is not your talent but this is what we need in this case.
and this is why we do NOT NEED silly ideas from people who think that their own misfortune is made by others as themselves.
not to mention biggest disease of all: religion.
since christianity becomes legal in europe it brings mass murderings, genocides, crusades, wars and many more.
i did my reading and i can support my opinion with historical facts if someone wanna argue.
religion is worse shit ever.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:24 AM   #129
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COSMOS

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Originally Posted by druid66 View Post
not to mention biggest disease of all: religion.
since christianity becomes legal in europe it brings mass murderings, genocides, crusades, wars and many more.
i did my reading and i can support my opinion with historical facts if someone wanna argue.
religion is worse shit ever.
to burn heretic!))
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:42 AM   #130
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i told you already 50/50 while your solution have NO chance at all.
My solution keeps them out of the West. So who care if they continue to massacre millions of Muslims?
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:46 AM   #131
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what about THINKING that graphic a bit?

3% education versus 16% military + 4% veterans

+6% interest on debt

that already answers EVERY question !

but all your spendings on that graphic must have an income part too.

so form WHO do you think all this is paid if there are only unemployed in the country?
and how much tax is paid by someone who makes 600 dollar per month as housemaid?
and WHICH american will do that job?

did you ever think about how many american women CAN go to work and pay tax BECAUSE they can pay for a housemaid ?

btw.: an illegal immigrant can not ask for money when he is without job - did you realize that?

you are in such a small thinking circle and the worst is that you do not have the smallest clue about economy.

you think that everybody who was in charge of that yet has no clue but you have. HOW COMES ?
and how comes that you think that the one and only who REALLY do not have a clue about world economy (trump) is the right one for this job?

and what a fuck have your argumenst to do with REFUGEES ????

letīs close the cicle and say:

the refugee problem is caused by

16% + 4% military spendings.
with other words: americans made a lot of debts to finance this refugee problem and now looking for the guilty ones what they will NOT find outside of USA.

the good old way do not work - they just moving the problem a bit in the future - but the even older ways will not work either.
time for new brains - not old rotten ones.
Reducing illegal migration reduces unemployment among the native population. Wages rise, taxes rise, people on welfare come off welfare.

You're in favour of housemaids earning $600 a month. You lost your argument there.

Think before you type something that dumb.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:53 AM   #132
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Notice one crucial thing - you're speaking about Muslims (a person) I'm talking about Islam (an ideology) - those are two very different things.

This is a very important distinction - Muslims do not constitute what Islam is, it goes the other way - Islam is the ideology that should rule over every aspect of their lives (and as codified in the Islamic doctrine, eventually also over those outside of Islam).

The level of dedication and piousness among the followers of any cult or ideology may move on the scale from 0 to 100 pct. or anywhere in between. Same way as someone who claims to be Christian may steal, lie and commit adultery, the same way somebody who claims to subscribe to Islam too may not act in accordance with its doctrine.

In order to decide about a level of dedication and piousness, one would have to be able to read thoughts of every single one of out of over a billion of them. Some that do not live under Islamic rule may not practice Islam at all, and one can be quite confident that many will know very little or close to nothing about the Islamic doctrine in the first place.

Anyway, to advocate or defend a totalitarian ideology based on the fact that a part of its followers do not adhere to it or know very little about it is not exactly comforting either.

This is a very bold claim worth a reaction though:

"anything to do with Sharia bullshit is extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers."

Are you aware what Sha'ria constitutes?

Most westerners may have some remote idea about an ancient legal system, that is just a part of it though. Shar'ia is a complete manual on how to run a civilization according to the doctrine of Islam. Based on the fundamental principle that the doctrine is "perfect, universal, final" and nothing can contradict it.

It can be divided into two parts one of which deals mainly with the five pillars of Islam and is mostly religious (al-ibadat) and other part that deals with "human interaction" (al-muamalat) that is practical and political and prescribes how to run a society and civilization based on the doctrine of Islam, often in the most meticulous detail.

It covers just about any situation in life, religious affairs, family, business, criminal code, rule over the Kaffir, Jihad, war and peace etc. etc. Issues that a western person may find repulsive such as child marriages (selling underage daughters into marriage), stoning for adultery, death for apostasy, first cousin marriage, wife beating, second class citizen status for women and third class citizen status for non-muslims - that all can be found there.

What is important to understand here is that everything included in such manual has to be 100 pct. in accordance with the doctrine (found in the Qu'Ran or in the Sunna of Mohammad). It's not some "extreme" application of Islam, it is Islam exactly according to its doctrine - every rule, every prescription in this manual is to be exactly found in the doctrine of Islam.

Sha'ria claims to be the only applicable God's law and is supposed to replace any and all man made form of government. It includes the Kaffir (non believers) and is supposed to rule over them (propagation of Sha'ria is even banned on legal grounds in 18 US states if I am not mistaken).

Now of course there is formal (mandated to various extent in many lands under Islamic rule) and informal application of Sha'ria (applied voluntarily in the Islamic lands and Islamic communities worldwide).

Here's a fine map that may help with getting a better idea about the influence of Sha'ria in today's Islamic world, the article includes also a nice table with details for each country:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applic...law_by_country

As you can see, in many countries the presence of Sha'ria is not formally codified in its legal system (a legacy of western presence that usually tried to add aspects of continental law), however, Islamic communities typically still apply Shar'ia among each other informally (see also Shar'ia courts in Britain or across other European Islamic communities).

According to Pew Research, the support for Sha'ria being the official law in Islamic lands among Muslims may go anywhere from 8 pct. in Azerbaidjan up to to 99 pct. in Afghanistan.

Here's even a graph:



This is an important metrics, especially if you consider some of Shari'as provisions "extreme". If these numbers would be representative, then we are certainly not talking about "extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers".

One could even ask, do we really believe that those coming from these regions will abandon such dedication to the Islamic way of running a civilization instantly the moment they set foot into a non-Islamic country? Whereas the same doctrine commands them to "migrate in the name of Allah"?
Add the UK and probably all Western countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ity-sharia-law

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73...-UK-Islam-poll

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7...muslims-survey

Read it and see the truth about how they think.

Quote:
The 615-page survey found that more than 100,000 British Muslims sympathize with suicide bombers and people who commit other terrorist acts. Moreover, only one in three British Muslims (34%) would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with jihadists.
Idiots like Thommy want to allow more in to "educate" them out of Islam.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:00 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by thommy View Post
nope - there have been terror attacks long before - but your conclusion is wrong because you are talking about europe and do not see the whole world.

letīs say it like this: 30 years ago there have not been that much broken mobile phones in europe as now - and i am pretty sure that since the netherlands lost the final in 2010 against spain in the football WC there are even more broken mobile phones.

so following your logic the netherlands are responsable for broken mobile phones.

the number of terror attacks WORLDWIDE is dramatically increasing since bush went into iraq. that means even when there are still not more attacks than 0,1 % are happening in europe that there are automatically more attacks there.

and YES the refugee crisis brought also a number of people what should not be here but this is a circumstance what should not blame the majority of the refugees who are NOT terrorists. this is also caused by the NUMBER of people and not on the percentage of terrorists inside this group.

you know HOW many deadly problems we have on this planet when we exclude terror?
letīs talk about drugs, letīs talk about AIDS letīs talk about other imported crimes what are killing THOUSANDS of people every fucking day in europe.
if you do not want that you have to make a wall around your country - stop all flights, cars and ships in and out and stop to negotiate with other countries and you will be fine.
welcome to stone age !

you guys have the talent not to see the whole thing. you have the idea that one group of people is responsable for all and everything and you forget that we indeed have MUCH bigger problems we are used to live with already.
you also forget that the problem you want to resolve is getting bigger if you cut them off and donīt even try to change something. you mismatch cause and effect in all and everything no matter if it is regards to economy or humanity.
farseeing is not your talent but this is what we need in this case.
and this is why we do NOT NEED silly ideas from people who think that their own misfortune is made by others as themselves.
Are you referring to the number of terrorist attacks in the West or those in the ME?

The ME ones have been going on for a lot longer. Remember Israel had to put up a wall, that works fine, to reduce the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rorist_attacks

At least check Google to see if your logic isn't bullshit.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:40 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by druid66 View Post
not to mention biggest disease of all: religion.
since christianity becomes legal in europe it brings mass murderings, genocides, crusades, wars and many more.
i did my reading and i can support my opinion with historical facts if someone wanna argue.
religion is worse shit ever.
true !
and not only foreign religions also our own is still used for some ugly things.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:58 AM   #135
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Are you referring to the number of terrorist attacks in the West or those in the ME?

The ME ones have been going on for a lot longer. Remember Israel had to put up a wall, that works fine, to reduce the problem.
says WHO ???

A Look at the Israeli West Bank Barrier Wall

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rorist_attacks

At least check Google to see if your logic isn't bullshit.
i think YOU should do that because than you would see that the number of terror attacks WORLDWIDE increased a lot.

worldwide means: in every country and that includes europe and NO WALL will stop that - it will make the hate bigger AND WITH THE HATE THE PROBLEM !

where do you think the MOST europeans and US citizens where killed - NO it is NOT in THEIR countries !!!

have you seen an ISIS beheading video what was made in Germany or in the US or any other part of the western world ???

they have been even killed in turkey because terrorists hate turks. WHAT A FUCK shall turkey do??? a muslim ban for a muslim country ????

you are SOOO FUCKING FAR from any reality and your logic seems to be on holidays.

if you want to hide yourself in your bedroom than do it. but it is not a solution for people who want a free world with free travel and free people.
bring all europeans all americans and all westerns OUT from all this countries and you will see how fast the worlds economy breaks in pieces.

you can not even think from 11.59 am to noon - so stop to try think and finding solutions - you are incapable for this task.
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