Do you Ron Paul fans agree? Ron Paul says: Default Now, or Suffer a More Expensive Crisis Later.
 

We have a choice: default now and take our medicine, or put it off as long as possible, when the effects will be much worse.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-ron-paul.html

Of course..

let me stop by the gun store today and see how much ammunition they have available before i make a firm decision... :1orglaugh




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I'm gonna throw this out here....

Years ago when I was like twenty-five my monthly bills was physically more than my monthly income. Every time something went wrong - car broken down, etc - I went further into debt. The only obvious solution was bankruptcy. Everyone warned me about how bad it would be, blah blah blah, but in reality the moment I declared bankruptcy I became the best creditor ever - I had no debt, and I had healthy income. Instantly I was flooded with offers for new credit cards. (I should note that I haven't had credit cards since then!)

It's the same thing with US debt. We can't pay this off, and the best we can hope for is to carry on making these interest payments. Why not just default on these loans? Most of these loans is held by other countries - if we default, it fucks them, not us. And don't tell me that "no one will ever do business with the US again" - Of course they will.

And don't tell me that the US economy will collapse. If I default on my loans, I still have income, still have money, and still have a bank account. If we default on a $18 trillion loan to Taiwan, I'll still get paid next week.

But man, if we go this route... Obama will never recover.

You know, he just might be right.

Even Obama says we have to eat our peas!

yes, but based on what? hell, i'm open. while i understand all this debt ceiling bullshit is political posturing only, the economy is always either going up or going down, rarely stagnating, i.e., the system is cyclical. no shit we will have another crisis. just like we will have another peak/good times.

I agree with most of what you said :D

you are arguing with a transvestite... :1orglaugh





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i struggled with the quote but decided wtf. :1orglaugh

Well Russia defaulted.......... if you want to know how long it took them to recover, take a look at them now. Today they are a BRIC nation.

Having said that, I think the consequences of default are HUGE. Make no mistake - there is bound to be a bunch of very, very negative consequences.

push the money onto the voters who let all this happen

at least 3/4th of it...crisis averted

civil unrest high..lol

The massive debt from 50+ years of insanely expensive government social programs is finally coming due.

And even now there is no serious discussion on the needed deep deep cuts to the continued government spending.

Well we are borrowing money to pay on money we borrowed. How long can we do that for before people STOP lending us money and we have no choice but to default.

cut military spending to 1 billion per year. cut welfare, etc. problem solved. there is no need to 'default' when so much money is being wasted.

Yes, I agree. We should have let everything fall back in 2008 and do a complete "reset" then.

Now we are trillions more in debt. And it's going to be a loooonnnngggg slow and painful time.

There is truth to the old saying about "A quick cut is the least painful".

And Least profitable for those running the show right now.

If we cut it right now the entire government should be replaced. From the white house to the dog house or we will be right back where we started.

He's absolutely right.

this is the kind of change i can believe in...

and 100% agree..

we need a complete overhaul of the govt machine...




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based on what? i'm open.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh I agree ammo is key

No, thank you.

The military is a legitimate role of government, the Medusa head of snakes known as government funded social programs is NOT.

We won't be able to rely on sky rocketing oil prices and massive foreign investments and loans to fuel recovery as Russia did.

And Russia today is still a broken shit hole with an "iffy" currency.

:2 cents:

legitimate sure but its being abused and we are fighting wars for big business and filling their pockets at the same time with all of the equipment purchased. there is no need for a 2000 billion defense budget. how can you possibly justify that?

social programs are also abused but i'd rather spend money helping people than killing people. though i do believe there should be a massive overhaul that would help put an end to generation after generation living off social programs.

if the US does 'default'...ALL of us here will be out of a job with the exception of the mega money guys like manwin maybe.

ron paul and "jackass" pretty much mean the same to me.

at least your open minded... :1orglaugh




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Agreed .


One of the most important lessons to teach your kids: don't spend money you don't have.

There are few things any person or entity can ever do that soil their reputation more than not paying a debt that is owed.
Failing to pay our debts is not an 'option'

What to do about future expenses, future borrowing and future revenue streams can all be reasonably discussed.
None of that changes the fact that we did borrow, do owe, and must pay our existing debts.

There is no cut possible that would allow us to pay all of our debts in August 2011 without raising the debt ceiling.
Having out credit downgraded doesn't help us in any way.

The difference between a normal person or business and the state is that the state doesn't produce anything. It doesn't produce anything so it doesn't have any real income. It takes out loans that it can never pay back, it forces other people (the tax payer) to pay the interest on those loans and it then takes out some more loans etc etc.

Yes there is....our govt. in August (next month) will spend 300 BILLION dollar and "only" take in 174 BILLION in revenue. That means that not only are they not even trying to pay off the debt...they aren't even trying to STOP SPENDING NOW!

No matter what people say...when you step back and use common sense...you don't keep doing deficit spending (by almost TWICE your income) while you are already in the deepest debt in the history of mankind.

Today the govt. will bring in about 5 Billion dollars. My God that's an almost unbelievable amount of money. And that is just TODAY. ONE DAY. But guess what? They will SPEND almost 10 BILLION dollars!!!!

THAT is what is fucking our country. Not us. Not "big corporations" (who actually EARN their money). It's is the scoundrel, rascal, THIEVES we call "politicians" who no longer serve the country but have become career politicians who are ass raping our nation.

We're broke right? So what's the first thing we're gonna do? Pull back and cut things down to the bare minimum and start paying off the debt with the money we're saving right? Isn't that what YOU would do for you own household budget?

BUT NO...Instead of using common sense...our THIEVES in office started lobbing 1.2 million dollar missiles at Libya. And spending God knows how much everyday in Afghanistan to fight that "war" over getting Bin Laden (remember, that's why we invaded them)...oh I forgot, he's dead. Or still spending money on "not" fighting the war in Iraq to make sure we get Saddam Hussein and the weapons of mass destruction...
Hell, I can't even go on with this...it's just too damn ludicrous...

Let the Bush tax cuts expire and end the Bush wars...we'll be alright. We should not default because it will increase interest rates, imported goods (oil), and seriously downgrade the US global credit rating. More economic decline we do NOT need, especially right now.

Who do you think produced the Internet?

it's telling that a politician like ron paul advocates such a thing- voluntarily defaulting on our obligations to kick congress in the ass to not spend more because interest rates will then be higher.

is that really how ron paul thinks? what grade is he in?

The state created apache? The state told you to build your sites? The state started ccbill? The state started facebook, twitter and google? The state helps you administer your servers? The state developed icq, aim, skype, msn,...? The state commands people to sell products and services online? The state commands other people to buy products and services online? The state started paypal, paxum, okpay, epassporte, alertpay, cashx,...? The state developed wordpress, awstats, perl, php, thunderbird, miranda-im, ssh, flashfxp, firefox,...? The state operates namecheap, moniker, godaddy, name.com, gandi, fabulous,...? The state makes sure your emails arrive in time? ...?

The state took resources (that otherwise could be used by creative individuals) away from people and used them to create a network: the internet.
But it's human creativity, personal initiative, entrepreneurship, individuals with a dream that made the internet what it is today.

The military:

"Before there was the public internet there was the internet's forerunner ARPAnet or Advanced Research Projects Agency Networks. ARPAnet was funded by the United States military after the cold war with the aim of having a military command and control center that could withstand nuclear attack."


It damn sure wasn't meant for what we do now. Just like the interstate highway system that people throw into this argument for some crazy reason. It was built by Eisenhower to be able to move large military vehicles across the country in case of nuclear war.

And who cares anyway? Yes, the govt does do lots of great things. But for every good dollar they spend, they waste and overspend a billion more.

Make love, not war? What a stupid platitude!

Nobody is being helped by the government writing 80 million checks a month. It is killing us.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...Ji9H_blog.html

He is right.

Everyone needs to take their medicine and let the cards fall where they may. WE WILL RECOVER. It won't come without some pain, but it must be done. Be it tomorrow or in 10 years, it's going to happen sooner or later. I say lets get it over with.

If we do it now it will be very painful.... But when we are forced to do it later it could come down to utter breakdown and a totally destroyed society....



..... Oh, and at the same time, pass a balanced budget amendment. If we don't have it, we shouldn't be allowed to spend it.




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When asked if she would submit a balanced budget if she were elected Bachmann hemmed and hawed and she is the darling of the one's calling for a balanced budget amendment.

i say take a medicine, and rise against euro few times :)

No, she's the crazy bitch that CNN and late night comedy people are making us BELIEVE is the "darling" of the "ones calling for a balanced budget amendment"

I definitely think it's only common sense that we should have a law that requires our govt. to only spend what they have.

Look at what they've done with no restraints at all! Hell, we all would do the same if we had a blank check every day with no restrictions.

As far as Bachmann goes...she's a religious lunatic who also happens to be a fiscal conservative. I wouldn't want her near the white house. But then again I don't think she should have ever been elected to anything in the first place.

I think the first big step to sanity in Washington would be to go through and ask every elected official if they believe in "Creationism", that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, that Moses parted the red sea, that Noah made an ark and put two of everything on Earth on it and saved the planet, that Jesus was "God's" son, etc.
Everyone that says "Yes", should be immediately removed from office.

Maybe if we started with a govt. that didn't believe in fairy tales from an old Hebrew book written by primitive goat herders and then re-written by King James...well maybe we could START from there and move forward.

So in answer to your statement: NO, Michelle Bachmann is only "viable" because the press is pushing her in our face to ensure that Obama wins the election because only the religious right will ever vote for her.

yeah well. teabaggers types as a whole want to run the country into the ground, bankrupt the federal government, and remove their powers by removing their ability to fund anything, returning all the power to the individual states. it is a secessionist style movement, without having to do the dirty work of getting out. rather they want the house to fall down, so they can just move out without taking the blame.

Obama projects spending $47.315 Trillion over the next 10 years (2012 – 2021), an increase of $17.485 Trillion above the level of spending by the previous president in his last fiscal year in office (2008). That's an increase of 59% in spending above the 2008 level, and an increase of 98% above Bush's average level of spending.

Obama projects the National Debt increasing to $26.346 Trillion (vs $10.025 Trillion for Bush's last fiscal year in office - 2008), an increase of $16.321 Trillion.


(a) - See the White House Budget for 2012 – Tables S-1 and S-14. The link is below;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...ets/tables.pdf


For verification of the Deficits, here is another link to an Obama White House site;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

I don't believe any of that. I've only seen the real "leaders" of the "tea party" movement a few times on television news. And every time they were on, they emphatically stated that the people that are holding themselves up as representing the tea party to the media are NOT the real tea party type people.

The foundation of the "tea party" was simply to reduce govt. and have more freedom and less taxation for stuff we don't want (like invading countries, drug wars, etc.)

It was damn near libertarian.

But the second that it took off on a grass roots level...the religious crazies jumped out front and claimed that they were suddenly in the "tea party". And all their followers did the same.

So to say that all tea party people think and believe the same exact thing is ridiculous.

My own personal opinion is that "yes" the govt. has gotten far too big over the last 40 years. And it has dug itself into debt that we can never get out of. Politicians are "career" people now. And the whole thing is corrupt and needs a big enema.

The people should FIRE all the Republicans and Democrats. ALL of them. Send their ass home.

The founding fathers never meant for politicians to spend their whole lives in office living in Washington, DC and spending money every day (10 BILLION dollars a day).

They were supposed to live at HOME and have jobs. And only convene Congress a couple of times a year to take care of business or in case of emergency.

What we have now is a giant con game in Washington DC and a country full of people who identify themselves as "republican" or "democrat" and treat this whole thing like it's a sports event and argue amongst themselves.

Meanwhile, career politicians are spending money like drunken sailors and laughing at you.

You got it, why else would you spend 4-5 million to get a gig that pays 174k per year.

funny learning who was funning the bus rides of tea partiers to madison for that union strike

the banks who own your politicians will never let the US default.

http://www.RonPaul.com/welcome.php

Well said Rochard :thumbsup

Very interesting story of yours too, I never would have expected you to have been a bankrupt, and nor would I have expected Simon Cowell

This is the main barrier

1 politician advocating defaulting on obligations.