What age group do you think our content appeals to the best?
 

Made a thread recently about the age group of online porn members. Got a very emphatic reply of older men.

7 for 40+

8 for 35-55

1 for 50+

And only one for under 30.

So assuming our market is over 40s.

What do you think we shoot for?

Does online content appeal to people brought up on porn prior to the Internet?

people have forgotten about porn mags and dvds. the internet has been around for awhile now.

Paul's content tends to be admired by those that were around prior to the invention of indoor plumbing and automobiles
http://i.imgur.com/BTMKU.jpg

Teens porn was always easier to sell to older guys. Guys remembering their youth.

youve ruled out everyone under 30 ??

what niche of content are you talking about ?


if you had traffic you could analyze it yourself and reach your own conclusions

Clueless is as clueless does.

This is marketing 101. Nothing to do with how to put up 1,000 free videos a day, so I guess of no interest. :)

Marketing 101 would be working out different niches, different sites and different tours, different traffic sources etc will attract/deliver different ages.

There is no generic 'age' that buys porn.

We all know that. So I put in the word "most".

You asked what the point of my other thread was about, this is what it's about.

Still got more points to make about why sales are so low and it's not about Tubes and loading the Internet with more free porn.

Took a while to get some votes. Getting more will be better.

If you make a NEW point that you have never mentioned before out of the back of this pointless poll I will give you five crisp english pounds.

Getting more votes will achieve nothing. It is people talking out of their arse. No data you get here will mean ANYTHING. And even if you got accurate data from ONE site, it would not have ANY relevance at all to another.

Do you think the people that buy BBW fetish stuff also buy generic eastern european teen porn? Of course not.

Pointless, but have a bump because you look so ill. Hugs.

q f t

Have a few thoughts here...its very good to think about targeting key segments, anticipating what your specific users migth be looking for, using that when developing both the product and the campagin/marketing strategy...there are a couple of things that tend to skew key, converting demographics to that older age group...

1. People under a certain age tend not to pay for much of their entertainment content. It all started the first time someone dowloaded music for free, prior to tubes, etc. This age group is expanding all the time, but obviously tend to see it less in folks 35+

2. Availability of disposable income - one reason the gay niches did so well accross different age groups (aside from that segment of the market not being overly saturated)

Its true that certain niches might appeal more to older demographics, but any relationship there probably isn't related to the age, but more common niches that are popular among all users at the same rates - teen niche is an easy one...

So while I wouldn't ignore end users under a certain age, maybe think about how you can target them differently and act upon that data. For example, in dating sites like ours, we can identify these key demographics based on fairly standard info entered upon a free registration, run split tests on offer content, frequency, when displayed in life-cycle. Typically, how users respond has less to do with their age, more to do with how, when an offer is given.

Check mainstream for clues as well...typically, what payment models appeal to younger folks aside from the tried and true stuff we've been using for years...netflix type model prior to nerfing maybe? Do older, more "established" users prefer a more hands-off, classic membership, access to all?

Paul, the MILF trend clearly shows your assumptions are wrong about the age of people who buy porn :2 cents:

I hear you, certain niches by definition are targeted to younger demographics, what you say is true assuming that the MILF niche is as strong as it was right after the first American Pie came out...damn that was a long time ago, and that the actual paying users are also in that younger demographic...until they pay not really a customer as far as I'm concerned..break down some numbers, show me that on a large milf niche site, the largest segment of paying users is under 25, I'll shut right up ;)

Online free porn ? i would answer 12 to 17 ;)

Teen porn--
So it's not because of the instincts the men have - the younger the woman - the more fertile she'll be - she can work more (gathering seeds, fruits - while the men goes for hunt), she can bear more children. See as reference Game of thrones and it's sequels - the books.
We don't speak about pedophile theme, but for the youth and fertility

Big boobs porn--
The bigger the breasts - the better - the men remember themselves while they were little babies - hold by their moms. The big boobs suggest warmth, calm and security - also: life, health and tenderness / you won't stay hunger when there's milk for you ; Also - bigger always mean something more /never mind what is it.

Mature porn--
There are guys who prefer mature women - that means experience, mother care, security - someone wiser and experienced to give you advice, or basically to tell you what to do...

Anal porn--
The love for the curiosity and to do something that's forbidden. For some people that's a lifestyle (they are called "ass holes"), or you feel like you did that when someone "forgot" to pay you the money you worked for... or... you're in bed with beautiful model, and suddenly her husband who's : 1. bodybuilder 2. karate master 3. bisexual gets home earlier - then you should know for sure the meaning of that sex - that's for reference.

The men are privileged in all the ways - we may get older, but we still can father children at 70 or 80 years (if we can pick up the plane). Can a woman do that ?? The hanging tits hardly can turn on regular man - right now the standards are these :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NnotEUEYns...1600/untit.jpg

Most of the men would choose to have sex or to be involved, married or even just to be seen with that kind of girl. I say most - something like 95%. There's still 5% who would pick something else. For example below:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KsdX-BbLy9...600/donkey.jpg

We have to admit that most of us just can dream about a chick like the one on top. We say: I can't afford that kind of woman - reasons: she's so gorgeous and beautiful - for sure she's been fucked by 1000's of men. Or... I have to be at least millionaire to afford her. That's why we pick the average girl - Pizza ?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1095/...b6f090a4_m.jpg

Then we get rid of her, meet another one like her :

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1lBJWLSdB2...g/S220/012.JPG

We fuck her, or break up with her, just to get involved with another one like her, who cries
after sex... God knows why... then you hang out more with her. Telling her that you love her - probably cause you're drunk, or just because you wanted to tell her that. Marriage
then she gives you your first child. Second child :
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iXUoBzYVyK...0/fat+girl.jpg

Third child, fifth one -

http://scoopgods.com/wp-content/uplo...h_fat_girl.jpg

People start to look at you with pity while they sees you walking next to her. And you still keep telling her : You are beautiful !!! Bah!

Then you go to your computer and pick ......
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-I-iEn6cmSok/SA...en-porn-14.jpg

Obviously she's not looking like your wife /the photo below of her, yep she is... admit it./
http://www.whale-images.com/images_/...ale_breach.jpg
and while you trying not to cry - you just pick the next chick to masturbate on :
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-KL_g9A8oF00/S9...-teen-tits.jpg
Then you're saying :
Younger !!! Younger - MORE MORE! Then you see these guys :

http://noliesradio.org/images/fbi_raid.jpg
- and you remember the Anal porn section.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...nKAzEWZmrxcC27


Basically Paul is right - the older men like to remember their youth.

The rest was pretty well spot on also.

IMO there are reasons most porn buyers are older than 35.

Under 20-25 the porn addicts haven't developed their tastes in porn yeat and can get off to a lot of stuff, so why pay.

Under 25 the online surfer culture is to not pay for anything.

Under 25 and single, in 2011 you have to be a total loser with women to need to buy porn online. It's out there for free. Shower, shave and a bit of after shave and go get the real thing.

25-35, single. Above applies. Most men in that age group can hardly meet their mortgage payments and feed the kids to be buying any porn.

So in generally the odds are we will sell more to the 35 year olds and up. A few niches might have a different audience, but good luck selling guys who think t should be free, can go out and get it for free or have a mortgage and kids while still climbing the pay scale ladder online porn.

So this Damian is the point of the thread and the other one about ages.

Today do we produce the porn that will appeal to guys brought up on a better level?

Today do we produce a mass produced product, that resembles real hamburgers, like a MacDonalds hamburger does?

Today do we produce popcorn porn. Cheap, easily consumed and forgotten soon afterwards.

Yes there's a huge market for "MacDonald" porn, but it's ease of production and the amount available makes it hard to sell. Is there an untapped source of customers in "Kobe Beef" porn?

Is there still a very good untapped market in doing what 1,000s of others can't do?

Doesn't have to be Playboy or Glamor type porn. Just porn produced with some care and attention to detail?

I won't let you off the fiver Damian. Give it to charity please. :thumbsup

yeah good job paul you have unconvered yet another mystery of porn

old men like young girls! who knew!

I said if you made a new point Paul honey. All you said here is what you've been saying for the last x years.

Again and again and again.

But so few try to fix it. If the problem of 2000 is still the problem of 2011, then why not keep saying it? We haven't moved forward very much if this is the industry 2011/

When the best thing a big company can do with the domain porn.com is stick a free Tube site om it and sell traffic.

Then there the problem is getting worse.

It's like a company buying the brand name Playboy and putting DVTime's content into it. All respect to Adam but he's no Playboy end shooter.

Is this the best way to make money in porn circa 2011?

No it is Markhaming 101. Big difference to actual marketing.

And btw after 50 years in the business most of it selling the exact same content, shouldn't you already have some kind of idea about your customers?

I think porn is mainly watched by men 18-40 yrs.

According to at least one study it is 12-17 years old that are the primary viewers of porn.

Well you see being on the boards has confused me.

When I first came I was told online surfers didn't want anything good, they wanted amateur and even what I thought was crap. I was told over and over again they didn't want what I was shooting, I would be out of business in a few years if not month and I was doing it all wrong. Mostly by people who were shooting what they said was needed and said it was right.

Then they all went out of business or gave up shooting content and I was told my wrong stuff was saturated.

Even recently Fabian of Manwin told me online surfers didn't want "LA porn valley" porn. And he made a good case for it. Then I looked into Brazzers, his top site I was told, and saw "LA porn valley". Like so many other sites had.

Now I'm being told online is and always was a bigger business than offline. Maybe it is because offline has shrunk to a shadow of itself and slipped under online's taking.

And the best thing in 2011 is to buy the premium porn domain and stick a free Tube onto it, to sell traffic. With "LA porn valley" porn on the site. Which I'm told from the owners is now making the paysite the content came from, sell better than ever.

Surfers want real amateur. But many of the people shooting it couldn't sell it.

Surfers want real amateur. So now top site are selling LA Valley fake porn.

Giving it all away for free, gets more sales.

Yes I thought I knew what sold. But listening to you guys has me confused.

</sarcasm>

Yes I know exactly what people want, how to sell it and who buy it. I just wonder if some of you do. As you keep changing your minds.

Those would be very fitting "last words" for you Paul (if only :) )

If only I would let you carry on with self delusion.

If you walk into your bank manager and ask for a loan to open a shop with this approach he'll laugh at you. Same goes for applying for a job running a shop.

"I know exactly what my customers want, who they are and how to sell to them.

I can get a 1,000 people who like porn to look at my free porn, 100 will come into my shop and 1 will buy.

See I told you I know what my customers want." :1orglaugh

Konda isn't so bright. He dreams of giving away 1,000 free scenes a day, to sell to 100 people. Which is probably 1,000,000 who liked the product enough to be looking at it, 1,000,000 going to his shop and 100 buying.

That for him is his target in his business career. :Oh crap

I seriously doubt if any of you have a clue what customers want, who they are, how to create that product, make it so good they buy, make it so sticky they keep buying and then how to sell it to them.

What you do know and are brilliant at. Is taking millions of people who like, consume and keep consuming the product, give them the product for free so a handful will buy it from you for a few months.

And every day ratios prove you're getting worse at it.

If that's "Markhaming"? I'm proud of it. Because it's spot on. This will be the part you respond to as the rest you know to be true.

What's that you say? Giving away porn for free is bad?

Why didn't you say so before?

Everyone, stop giving away porn.

</thread>

Why are you guys still talking to this paul markham character.
Its pretty obvious his demented state makes him forget every post/thread he makes and every post/thread he reads 3 minutes later. He is like the goldfish of the adult biz. And that ladied and gentleman, is the real reason he keeps repeating himself for the past 10 years.

markham: hai, I need a bank loan for a business
bank: what is your biz plan?
wankham: it isn't opening a tube
bank: ok, what is it?
wankham: it isn't giving away free porn
bank, right, so what is it?
wankham: it isn't getting 1 person out of x,000 to buy some porn
bank: yes, so what is it?
wankham: it isn't doing what manwin do
bank: you can go now
wankham: prove me wrong
bank: please leave
wankham: you troll, you know nothing
bank: security!
wankham: you idiot, is this any way to run a bank? You are doing it all wrong. Out of 1000 people who want a loan you only give to 1, so you are actually LOSING money on the 999 you could've given a loan to.
bank: uhuh
wankham: prove me wrong!


etc etc blah blah blah

I miss the 80+ option ...

For the clueless it's the only route.

A lot is talked here of traffic, selling and marketing. Yet it's talk by the clueless.

Anyone who thinks getting traffic in porn is hard, is a fool. Getting men to look at porn is about as easy as getting women to look at babies.

Anyone who has to offer to 100 possible customers to sell to one isn't very good at selling or marketing. It's called supplying in the world of selling and marketing.

Anyone who has to give a product away free to 100 people isn't selling properly. It's laying things out for people to try in the hope 1 will like. That's not selling, it's supplying. Yes there's a sale at the end. Selling is something else.

Selling is finding buyers who need your product, showing them the benefits of it and then closing them on buying it.

We don't do that. The online porn buyers find us. We then offer them lots and lots of free samples in all niches, styles and strengths we possible can think of.

We try to get found by as many of these people as possible and give them the widest selection and as much free porn as we can to keep them coming back.

If the man on the street corner holding a sandwich board directing people to where they can get free coffee, in the hope 1 out of 100 will buy, is selling. Then what we do online is selling.

I'm told how clueless I am.

I went out and sold to every customer I approached. Yes every magazine publisher I approached I sold to them. Because I did my research into what they had, what they needed and made sure the product I approached them with met those needs.

Selling videos mail order. I sold sample discs, didn't have to give them away. Of course that would of sent me bankrupt and knew it. Even without that, the excuse of "I can, therefore I do." Isn't any use. A better excuse is, "I'm not capable of doing any better, so I'm stuck with this."

Selling via the stores. Long after all those who told me I was wrong for online, I'm still online and selling and they're gone. My content was so wrong, it was later accused of being sold everywhere. We never had to resort to shooting custom to make up our money. In fact custom paid less than the store sales.

We never had to worry about getting paid 2 weeks after the shoot to pay our bills. In fact 2 weeks after the shoot, we were still sorting the slides and hadn't shown them to a client. We got paid on average 6 months after we shot the content.

I get flamed by losers and a lot of clowns. Konrad thinks 1-800 is great. And he would give away more free porn if only he cold. :1orglaugh

Jack Sparrow, reduced to selling ad space on Tubes. :1orglaugh

Yes this industry is largely made up of fools and clowns. Who think the more free they give away the more money we all make. Truth is they can't sell anything and giving it away for free is their only way of earning a living.

Many say online porn gave access to millions who previously could get it. Look at the join stats and see where customers are. In countries we were selling porn to before. Yes there's the odd sign up from China, India and a few other places. The main areas we sold to was where porn was always sold. Different levels of course, from Playboy to Scat and Bestiality.

The access it gave millions was to consume for free.

If in 2011 the best thing Pimproll can do with the prime domain in porn, is put a Tube site on it. Online porn is fucked or the guys that run PR haven't got a better idea of how to monetize it. Or they can't afford to do anything better with it.

For me I can think of something better to do with it.

Stick a site on it that does away with affiliates and their costs. It will get all the traffic it needs. Make the site the best they have or create something that really turns heads. Then from inside the site, upsell to all their other sites.

Without the cost of traffic. The option is to give the surfer something knock out, prove it's great and drop the price to $20 or keep it at the same and spend the extra profit on the members area. With something better than LA porn valley porn scenes.

No they think the best way is to give away the content from their prime site, sell traffic and ad space and maybe get a few sign ups from the Tube. We all know how well it will convert and retain once the surfer has seen the stuff for free.

They're even going to let others upload their content. They don't have enough sites of their own to do that. Or just want to be a mega free site so they can sell lots of traffic at $1, per 1,000 or what ever. We all know the value of Tube traffic.

Pre recorded porn is dying as a sales item. We're left with Dating and Cams. So two avenues to make money. It could of still been 3 and the prime money maker would still be pre recorded porn. :(

Dating and Cams will never meet the revenue pre recorded porn was doing. They could of been doing exactly what they are doing in addition to, not instead of.

But people couldn't see this in 2000. Or could and chose to ignore it. Well yes, people in 2000 were saying giving away too much is losing sales. But fools could only give it away to get sales, selling and marketing was way beyond their reach.

I always found it more accurate to ask my members these types of questions in the members area... but that's me.

If 10-15 years ago, it was 30-40 year olds that purchased porn the most, and today it's 30-40 years still.... that would mean the theory that 20 year olds would 'rather' steal porn that buy it to be rather incorrect.

I wonder what it could be? Let's see, college, shit jobs, parties... and PUSSY, then a fucking job, life, wife, kids, etc... it's like by time you hit your 30's you have credit, some spare cash, your life under control, a wife, some kids... and fuck you need some porn to clear the mind after a day of bullshit.

Does a 50-60+ year old that likes teen porn start liking it when they were 50 or 60? No.... they've always liked it - which is why you have 20 year olds as members too, just the older you are, the more your life tends to be under control - thus you can enjoy the finer parts of life more.

Finding out why a customer bought after he's bought is good and a "silver", carry on doing it. Finding out what would turn potential customers into customers is "gold".

Yes people have liked their niche for a long time, so why people who haven't a clue about it, think they can shoot, publish or sell it to these people is beyond me. :1orglaugh

Well in truth they don't. They pepper the free sites with samples hoping some will looks and a few will buy.

************************

Before anyone tells me I'm regretful I missed the boat or didn't adapt when I should of. Maybe they're right. Maybe in 2002 I should of flown back to the UK, left Eva, our daughter and the business for her to run. And built on what I was doing at Astral Blue.

IMO doing a paysite with Czech girls then wouldn't of worked well. Can't speak English and IMO once a girl doesn't talk, she loses her personality.

But the people who missed the boat and didn't adapt most was those in online porn.

The Internet gave them opportunities offline porn never ever had. Delivered to someones home. Niches that would never sell well enough offline, would sell enough to make them profitable online. The ability to grow, develop and evolve the product almost instantly was awesome. Magazines are 3 months from editors desk to shop. Videos once there out it's done.

Paysite could react and create like noting offline could.

And in one aspect we did. We grew, developed and evolved giving away free porn to the best we could. In the belief that no matter how ratios got worse, more people would be coming online to buy.

Welcome to 2011. We have 1,000s consuming free for every 1 who buys anything. :(

Argue about the figures, it might only be 500 consume free to 1 buying. That's 499 not buying nothing and a failure.

Hang on a minute. Is Paul saying giving away free porn is bad?

That is a very new and original idea.

Thanks for sharing Pauliepoos!

Asking members that have already purchased from you is how you find out what a potential customer in the future would want. Doing market research on non-customers is a bit stupid, for all you know the person didn't like the white background.... or to them the site was slow, wife is home, or a 1000's other "non-porn" reasons why they don't buy.

You mean YOU have 1000's of visitors that don't buy YOUR porn.... and just like in 1998/9 - some sites had 1:1k and worse ratios - I know personally, I built one of them & I promoted them, and yes even back then, some sponsors totally bombed. And like today, 1:100 still happens, all over the place, into the 100's of sales, daily.


Nothing in the world converts everyone.... not even those looking to buy, in the store, product in hand, and they actually need it, still not everyone buys, and some people steal it too. Humm.....


Btw... your content in magazines, in a porn shop.. converted 1:1000's as well, it's not like every person walking in the door purchased from you... it's no different today, other than we have more people buying today, then again we more people selling too.

And not to knock, but clearly it wasn't as lucrative as you like to pretend... per sale, you probably make 2-4 times more today.

Paul... I understand why it "seemed" easier to you 15-20+ years ago.

You shot the content... someone else did the marketing and sales, for you.

You did the easy job and someone else did the hard work for you.

so, let me get this straight, traffic is easy to get, giving away porn is bad, and everyone is an idiot?

you should have said so before. this is GOLD. why were you not speaking on this at Prague?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Markham should be running a trade union, they are always full of shit about what's wrong but with no solutions of their own.

Hahahahah. That is so on point.

Paul: you're right about younger people not paying because they have little cash or what little cash they have needs to be spent elsewhere, and that is why the older settled down and retired people buy more because they are settled down and have money to spend on specific tastes or maybe even just because they have morals. Other than that, haven't a clue.

And that's also why we'll just have to wait 10-20 years and see if the younger crowd is still buying porn as much.

i pointed that out before, but he just said i was an idiot.

how many people pic up a porn mag and flip through it and put it down before they buy. hundreds or thousands.

http://www.familysafemedia.com/porno...tatistics.html

this is from 2006 but the stats say the following

Age %
18-24 13.61%
25-34 19.90%
35-44 25.50%
45-54 20.67%
55+ 20.32%

No young people buy porn idiotface!

I could be wrong, but up until the Internet, it sounds like Paul did b2b with magazines and/or brokers of them, basically zero b2c until the Internet, and then, he's only had limited exposure to that.... for sure compared to those he preaches to.


You know... I was in the visa/processing business before I started on the Internet, then I've used them for the last 15 years online. I should really go around and school all these processors in all that is wrong, even though they've been around for 15 years and I've never owned one myself, if I just adapt Paul's methods, I will have educated them, corrected them, and we would all be richer today. :1orglaugh

of course bev biffman or steve roberts or some other forgotten porn shooter from the 80s makes money now shooting weddings so that alone is proof no one can convert anything anymore anyways.

No problem.

Maybe people are now realising that giving porn away for free is good. If you keep it to 10 seconds clips and 10 softcore images. And 2-4 weeks after the samples were given away taking them down. That's too sensible for the experts in porn.

Handing control of how much is given away over to people who were giving it away, hosting it all for them, in fact not only giving them control, but paying them more than they were worth, giving them every tool they demanded, running sites to suit them rather than members and owners.

Wasn't the brightest move for a business to take. Because today it's obvious. You end up with an absolutely gigantic free porn barrier between consumers and sellers.

Ho Hum, pity someone wasn't listening to voices telling them it wasn't the brightest thing to do. Ten years ago.

I could of told them this at the Prague show and the back drop to my little speech would be the banners with all the free tubes advertising the content that have for sale.

People would be too busy to listen as they're busy buying traffic. :1orglaugh

Damian, do you have anything positive to offer. Do you have suggestions to turn the tide? Because you're slipping back to trolling.

I wouldn't take those stats seriously.

http://familysafemedia.com/pornograp...ldporngrap.jpg

Go check the site.

Thank god surfers/porn buyers don't agree with Paul.

Yes, almost two years of free tips, ideas and practical advice over at www.adultmarketing.co.uk.

Do you have anything positive to offer? Or are you just saying the same old shit you always say about wishing it was 10 years ago and free porn is bad? (That was rhetorical, clearly you never say anything positive and just moan and whine like a little girl).

I don't think you even know what a troll is, do you? Which is probably why you are proud of winning effectively "Dick of the year".

What I am doing is mocking you. For saying the same old shit you always say. That is not trolling. Trolling is posting deliberately provocative statements for the sake of annoying people.

HTH.

Big hugs

D

I do find it a bit funny he's proud of it.... he thinks 'other trolls' made him win, lol.

....lol.

If you keep it to 10 second clips and 10 softcore images the next site will bring it to 11 second clips and 11 softcore images. You really don't understand do you?
http://i.imgur.com/2vmnW.jpg