Any new site producers successful in today?s market?
 

I?m curious to know how many newbie producers have created member?s site startups that have actually made any money in todays market? And I'm not talking rent money... I mean serious money. I?m talking people who got in the game within like the last couple years.

I ask this question because I?ve been behind 2 different member site startups within the last 3 years and neither of them have had worthwhile returns. I?ve also watched numerous other member site startups crash and burn hard over the last few years. Yeah, there are a plethora of reasons as to why all these sites ?may? not be making serious money, but to me it seems like the market has tanked to the point that the new guys have almost no chance to get in the game and compete against the big dogs.

I hear people all the time considering getting into the biz and starting their own members site, etc. and the only advice I have for them is ?don?t do it? cause the potential for return is no longer worth it. Now I may be wrong, but I welcome anyone that can say otherwise.

Some of the guys with small networks of amateur sites or solo girl sites that still post here claim to be doing well. Of course it's all relative. I'm not talking about millions of dollars, but if one can launch a site or small network of sites with exclusive content in today's market and make $5k-$10k a month profit, I think that's a good target to shoot for.

I've been contemplating the idea of doing my own sites for years. Luckily producing high quality content for other programs affords me a nice living so I haven't been forced to dive in and see for myself. I'd love to hear any inspiring stories by smaller programs with exclusive content making it on their own and how they do it.

if you have traffic it eventually makes sense to send it also to your own sites

if you dont have traffic already, and no big budget for traffic buying, i wouldnt bother

Im hardly a pessimist but I can't say im super positive about the chances of somebody starting off nowadays.

I think this industry is full of people with below average skills. Its an industry that attracts the lowest of low, i think alot of that has to do with the small investment needed and the fact its a job you can do from home. Well and the fact it's porn related. Which does make me think that most people can start off and already be a step above the rest if youre an intelligent business minded person

But in saying that, today, unless you have a long history of internet marketing and youre extremely web savvy, i wouldn't recommend it. And typically producers are good at the shooting part but not the most talented when to promoting their own product via the web.

You basically have to hit the ground running, for many reasons:

You want to spark enough interest at once to get people talking about the program and spreading the word and no better time than the start

You want to get profits right away before the monthly costs overwhelm you (server, security script, cms, affiliate software, streaming software, etc) - typically a beginner will have that stuff setup well before they get their sites up and will be paying all those things for close to a year sometimes!

Another thing that comes to mind and why i think you have to have the knowledge going in, well theres theft, simple little mistakes of not knowing about using password protection scripts, well the next thing you know, all your content is ripped and all over the place for free, the pirates actually find your site before surfers do. They surf places like gfy and other places to find the latest. Just the little details like that end up really costing you.

The launch is the most important part of a site because its when affiliates make their mind up on you, its when they push you the hardest. This is because you usually launch with a ton of sets so theyre pushing them at a fast pace. So you better have everything perfect out of the gate. If they dont like what is being offered, theyre quick to drop you and move on or just not push you as hard. Others will come across your program and notice you dont offer something and not even check again to see if you later on decided to offer it.

You also need to know your affiliates and who youre going to be going after to promote your content. With no experience on the promotion side, youre going to end up just contacting everybody instead of the people running the sites that your content would sell best on

Anyway my point is, you better know what youre doing right out of the gate or have the ability to learn it real damn fast. And considering the cost of production + the monthly bills, you get buried pretty quickly and lose motivation/hope.

And yeah success nowadays is 5k+ a month from a site (building a business from scratch). So if you dont get off to a good start, you can imagine how bad things will be.

Back in the day, you could start off slow and still be making a few k a month in profit. No cushion anymore.

To be honest, i can't think of any programs in the last few years that have built from scratch and succeeded, though maybe there is and i just can't think of them. When i say from scratch, im not including people who had other programs in the past who made profits when times were better and decided to launch another one. It doesnt require quite as much ability to get in at the right time and make your profits and just keep launching new programs as it does succeeding when nobody else is

The fact that we can't think of new programs with no prior adult history to succeed in recent years, tells you alot.

The new "paysite" model has switched to tube sites with "premium" memberships. I rarely see companies creating new stand alone paysites, but just about every big tube has a premium option. IMO, it's outrageous that tubes can charge memberships to content they dont own, but the law makes it legal so long as certain requirements are met.

Normally people used to just hire affiliate managers with experience to do such tasks, however nowadays you need to do that role yourself to keep profits up (for the first year atleast)

Yeah, I don't know of any either. I do know of a lot of failures though.

I still think you can do well producing content for others like JimGunn, if you're good (but that's not really starting from scratch). But I'm just not seeing any evidence of startups being able to make it in the market today.

Seems like JT and Reallyusefulcash has been a profitable paysite startup

yeah - but he knows how to generate signups - and lots of them

I dont think thats the 'yeah but' - how about yeah but they came in with an insane budget if they just entered with that many sites with that production value. Their profit margin and success, well you dont even know how theyre doing, theyre clearly spending way more than any other startup though, so what they need to pull in is MUCH MUCH greater.

The second one, the people managing that program have no ties to running any other paysites? Hard to believe.

If you want to come in with a million dollar budget and pay all the right people to get things done, sure. ;) Enough money and the possibilities are endless

I just whois'd the domain and its registered under Gamma Entertainment?

So how are they new? A new program doesn't equal new

I dont think hes asking if a company can launch another site, i believe hes talking about can a producer startup a paysite. Without putting your entire site in somebody elses hands who have done this 20 years

Almost everything is a company opening a new brand nowadays. I wouldn't consider a new brand a new business

Right, I'm talking about new guys breaking in the biz, not people coming with years of experience and connections that are basically just spinning off of already successful programs (or adding to them).

i actually wanted to say that he's not new - knows what he's doing - and has a big budget

thats why he can start something successful

if you are new, have no experience and no traffic, you can also burn your money right away

good thread here

Nice Post Pseudonymous

..seems like the guys at brokeamateurs.com are doing pretty well..

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=400...eamateurs.com&

I know some people dont think alexa is accurate, those people have no idea, unless its being fooled (which is easy to do but very rarely do people do that as there isn't much need for paysites), then its extremely accurate.

Also that program has been out quite some time, thats just a new paysite of theirs.

Not a new company.

And erospov.com doesn't have enough traffic to be monitored by Alexa, which means, most likely less than 6-8k to their homepage. Also the links in are poor. So that typically means not alot of people havent jumped on board with advertising it

what him say mon? :rasta

And I think even that site has been around since like 07/08. So while it's new, it's not really that new. I'd like to see anyone who's been successful starting in the last 2 years.

My mistake, i swear I saw a date of last year (must've had the erospov.com reg date in mind), i see now, yeah 2008+. Okay so it did have alot more success during its time, when i checked the graph, i thought it launched just before where you can't see and it was already decreasing.

Makes more sense. Ignore my post then.

They aren't a new company, nor have new sites that are off the ground

i have no idea what the X-Art people did before - but they are definitely successful

but with a huge budget

Hmmmm, I don't suppose Porno Dan's company's rise in the past 2 years counts does it?

They have been for a long time now

The people who operate it now (i think are newish?), purchased it a few years back when it was already a massive site. So it was just paying the producers and the right people to keep managing it

ok, then it just went under my radar for a long time

I dont know enough about the history of him to know. Though im sure he made alot of money when times were easy and probably had quite the budget to start and pay the right people to help him manage his program (i believe he was a shooter to begin with)

So in saying that, maybe we should talk about how much money it takes nowadays to get started. I'd say quite a damn bit.

So what does he own, immortallive.com - what others? Because what im seeing is low traffic and pretty fair sized costs and a percent that goes to blazing bucks

You'd be amazed with how much producers actually make these days, you see a big site and you think automatically that producer is making alot but there are producers who have teamed up with big programs i know, but after the program gets their percent and the production costs, the producer doesn't exactly make a fortune, thats why alot of them choose not to partner up with programs

Well not that old, i thought i recall somebody saying it was under a different name before, beautyisdivine.com. I think they rebranded it as x-art in 09 or so.

But yeah they are the last company i think of when i think new and successful, so i agree that you brought it up. Just trying to get an idea of how new

Edit- looks like beautyisdivine has been around since 04. So yeah again, not new.

Really puts it into perspective when you see that the only growth has come from people within the industry and not many have been able to join and stick

The fact that none of us can come up with a single valid answer to the OP's original question says a LOT about the state of the industry today.

:2 cents:

the question how many "newbie producers" in general ever have started a really successful site all by themselves - which means shooting, creating traffic and running website operations at the same time

Thats not all that true, you'd need a ton of traffic to justify making your own sites.

Thats like the people who want to build a site because they got a good domain, thats just one step, simply doesn't justify making a website

I wouldn't even necessarily say it has to be by themselves. Just has to be a new company. Not built up of people from another program that are just expanding their business

and i dont even think it has to be a newbie producer either


The number is still close to 0

Id even count guys like pornodan if he had a new successful network of paysites but he doesn't


I think that does answer his question

true

but why build something new when you can buy something established...

i like to compare this industry to the car industry - from many small and midsize producers to a few big ones running separate brands each but using synergy effects to minimize costs.

and then you have a few niche producers for people who want something special

but how many new car manufacturers have come up recently?

I concede your point that someone coming in new is going to have a harder time developing a full blown traditional affiliate program of paysites from ground zero. But at the same time if they have the cash in the coffers, it can be done assuming they have some level of traffic or can generate some.

Second, you over emphasize the need of them having to do an affiliate program, or their value in the adult industry circa 2013. The old affiliate models is dead, and their are few whales out there any more. The business model for driving sign ups has changed. Affiliate programs learned back around 2007 that paying heavy ransoms to affiliates was killing them even before the credit crunch of 2008. It was talked about at conferences and in seminars. Nothing new there.

All of this being said, the bar has been raised for newbies coming in who do not know shit. That I do agree on. But it does not mean it can't be done, and you can't still make a decent living in adult. Someone can easily start out doing a single clip store of original content, develop a following over a period of time, launch a pay site later, and grow it out from there. It would take time, assuming they did it this way versus what you're talking about as the traditional paysite/affiliate model, but it can be done and they can make a decent living doing it.

That does not mean they will be making millions and living like MTV cribs circa 2001. However, we are talking about a decent wage by comparison to the rest of the world. Someone doing what I just described and making $3-5k/month is making more than 99% of GFY posters doing something they love or want to do. It most places in the U.S. that is decent money to live on.

While I agree you make some good points on a newbie coming in, and what it takes to make it. Not everyone coming in is looking to be the next Manwin with a full blow affiliate program and network of sites. Many are just looking for living wage where they can be their own boss and feed their family.

:2 cents:

Yeah thats how it is now. But sadly youre never going to get a good price on something unless you have an extremely big budget.

one reason being

I dont think many people want to leave this industry, it gives you flexibility in your life, its a job you can do from your home, you get to spend alot of time with your kids, make your own schedule, and look at porn all day. Why would someone get out for such a little cost, you can basically run these businesses on autopilot for the most part. The only time they eventually consider selling is when its close to garbage.

Though when we're talking about big budget sites, we're talking about 500k+, then people consider selling at a bit of a discounted price because 500k+ opens up MANY doors for them. Or if theyre close to retiring, it gives them a nice cushion.

How often are you going to see a program that isn't completely dead for sale, small - medium sized? never. only time they are sold is when theyre no longer updated and theyre prime for picking for the credit card bangers, etc :/

In your post, you look like youre implying that i brought up members sites. I didn't. The original poster did, i am responding to his question regarding "member sites". If you look at the original post, you'll see the word members was mentioned multiple times. He also mentioned serious money, 3k is 36k a year. Average. I'd say most people live paycheque to paycheque, so 36k a year is generally paycheque to paycheque so i answered his question with 5k in mind , because thats where i draw the line.I have a feeling he was talking about more than a few k a year given the wording he used.

I never once said paysites or affiliate programs is the route to go or you need one or implied it.

If the question is can a new producer make some money in this industry, sure. Course ? Serious money with no experience and willing to go any route, possible but would still be quite the uphill battle.

I think this all speaks volumes about the state of the industry. And as for what it would cost for a newbie to break-in today? I think things have clearly progressed beyond the financial reach of the little guys nowadays. I think you?d need a team of people and a corporate sized budget to stand a chance. Even if you could get off the ground with as little as 50-100k, that?s still more than the average startup business has to work with. The small guys just aren?t going to have that kind of capital to invest.

i completely agree :thumbsup

but like i wrote in some other thread - before you had 200 sponsors with 5 people each - now you have 1 with 1000.

it doesnt mean the industry in total makes less money, just less people making way more than the rest

look at Crakmedia - they went from 1-2 people in 2007 or 2008 to 60 (or 80?) people today

it's not impossible but they started just with traffic, not production, so the costs were not that big to start out with

Cool it toots. I am talking about the whole topic at hand regarding the O.P..

I'm sorry if your took my reply 100% directed at you and your replies only in their wholehearted entirety. As you can see from my reply, I am talking about the entry to the industry as a whole from a newbie point of view and if it can be done, including the O.P.'s post and point of view. Not just your :2 cents: on the matter.

As for what is considering "big money" that is your interpretation, again, which is subjective to the O.P.'s point of view. What is "big money" to someone in California or New York is going to be completely different for someone in the midwest, deep south, or Romania as an example. Same as 'big money' to someone like you or myself with 10-15 years in this industry is going to vary compared to a noob.

Thank you.

50-100k , well 50-100k means no employees and the person handling the roles themselves. given no experience. just dont see it possible. given we're talking about paysites still

I spent more than that in one of the cheaper niches and i had a ton of adult marketing experience before i did it.

you can make some money off of 50-100k but it'd take a veteran to do it or you'd most likely burn through it. Though it also depends, can you support yourself while you do all the ground work for your business, do you calculate that into the budget.

Sometimes it takes a year for a business to shoot all the content and get the designs, integrations, and the cushion for the learning curve. hell most of the time newbies goto a designer and just that process takes months, not even including integration if you need that done

So do you take into account, the living costs for an entire year while you build it up?

Alot of people always forget the small details, if theyre really starting from scratch, sometimes you need a lawyer to get documents, alot of lawyers charge a retainer for 5k, thats 5k within the first day, those things people forget add up real quick and if theyre takign all those costs into account, on top of the production costs and living costs. It gets out of reach for some very quickly

You can get up to 50k-100k very quickly

Oh My God! A GFY business thread!!!???

The original question was about starting new paysites and programs, because that's what I was commenting on in response to new people having aspirations to do just that. But we can certainly open the discussion to various scenarios and possibilities.

I honestly don't believe a new startup could do it for 50-100k. I just used that low amount to put things into perspective. Cause how many small guys out there even have 50-100k to put into a startup biz? Not a lot.

You gotta have deep pockets, which technically is going to take the small guys out of it.

But you have to remember that the new guy starting from scratch is not going to have traffic to work with.

in the times of tubes it's also not so promising anymore to open a site with 10 scenes and another 10 for updates.. and depending on the type of content that alone can cost you $50k already

so you would have to go very micro niche - which brings us back to the traffic problem

yup - see my very first post in this thread

Isn't the owner related (son/nephew?) to the ex prime minister of canada or something?

I believe he comes from a wealthy family and loans and money in the bank were most likely not an issue.

theyre basically just a mainstream company who services adult companies. And offered something somewhat unique.

Not sure its quite related.

also crakcash /crakmedia has been around a long time no? crakrevenue was just a new project of his

Nick started all by himself - as porn webmaster - and I dont think its a matter of heritage

and they do have paysites for their own traffic

Edit: i spoke to Nick the first time in 2008 - and at that time he was still alone (as far as i know)

where his money is, is not paysites. his money is in a traffic broker basically

and from the paysites i see listed on that site, they were created around the time crakrevenue was created. so its not like he succeeded in paysites and thats what gave him the ability to create crakrevenue.com

also i want to add to it, gf sites are the easiest route in adult to make money. in regards to paysites but even with that said, still not where he made his money to produce a workplace with that many employees

and if he did start it with earnings from adult, those earnings would have been made pre 2010 im sure.

So is it a new business or him just expanding his business?

Think people are confusing brands with businesses

ok - dont get me wrong - i am not argueing that they are a paysite company - thats just a small (but maybe expanding) part of their business

i just named them cause they grew exponantially in the last years - as an example that you can still do it