Putin annexing Crimea = 30 years of cold war
 

I can't see anything stopping him though, Russia has a strong economy, Europe depends on its gas and oil, so all the "heavy sanctions" are most likely going to be symbolic and won't hurt Russia at all.

Moral of the story - never mess with short people

strong economy ?
No private incomes based on raw materials.
But it means for us a rise of the price of these raw materials and more reasons to be imperialist with our "friends" that should be forced to be like us (yes, it is for a worldwide "peace", homosexuality and stuffs like that...)
We are in fact not better than putin.

30 years? I think cold war in heads more over 100 years:Oh crap
сфт you see Putin on this piс from 1900?:winkwink:
http://nature.baikal.ru/phs/norm/34/34731.jpg

:) one way to see things.

"sanctions" against russia will include obama un-friending putin on facebook LOL....

Actually not. If these actions will be applied directly to the Russian oligarchs (Putin's friends), the effect will be very serious. These guys have a lot of assets in EU and States and they'll do anything to protect them.

They didn't do a lot in Cyprus did they?

Cyprus? Not even funny. Tell me where exactly Abramovich keeps his assets? What's about Timchenko and Gunvor? That's Putin's money which is enough to buy 100's of those dwarf pseudo-countries like Cyprus with all their banks, territories, people etc.

interesting, thanks

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The USA/West can crush the Ruble if it gets serious about doing so. Personally at this point in time I hope we dp nothing. I for one understand why Putin has moved to secure Cremea.

dp = deepthroat ?

yes, why in your opinion ?

same reason the protests in Bahrain have been suppressed for months.. military bases are off-limits

The ramifications of this will last decades. The financial impact will be huge, and in the end this will cause more harm than good - Ukraine will move much closer to the EU and US.

yes, and what will be the price to pay for ukraine ?
Is this acceptable for Russia ?
Remember cuba in 1962 ?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Wrong. Not to sound like an arrogant American but Putin has overplayed his hand. Ukraine will need both Russia and the West to be a healthy country. This is what the smartest minds on the situation say, from Henry Kissinger, to Ukraine's billionaires.

But you're wrong because Russia's economy isn't strong. It's been hammered. It's also tied to commodities which are taking a dive right now, as China slows down. And if Russia moves forward, they will piss off the rest of the world as in all westernized countries. The US has a ton of natural gas (in addition to oil, etc), however there's a ban on exporting it. Shit, we'll import it all day long and give out IOUs and issue more debt, but make no mistake - we sit on a fuck ton of reserves, as we enact environmental laws that lower our dependence on foreign energy (oil imports are down 25% in the last 5 years to the US, as car companies and other companies are forced to become more energy efficient). The ban on exports can change when needed. Israel also sits on a lot of natural gas - and who sticks up for Iran? If the world really wanted to, it would not be that hard to remove dependence from Russian energy. It won't happen overnight but the more Putin tinkers, the more he's going to awake some sleeping beasts, the way Reagan came in and cleaned up house after Carter got played for being a pussy. You might remember Carter's successor, Ronald Reagan and what he did to the former Soviet Union... Also, the collapse of the ruble meant the end of the Boris Yeltsin regime. Mind you, Putin is likely the world's richest guy. He doesn't want to see Russian energy dependence go down.

And Obama isn't going to be in power forever. The next guy, is going to be remarkably tough on Putin / Russia. That's how it works in countries with free elections and rotating leaders. Obama only has another 2 years, and the next guy he won't be able to play as easy, and the Ukraine situation will play out over years. :2 cents:

My prediction: some deal will be cut where Ukraine moves to a more westernized country, but Putin can retain control of his interests he cares about, and eventually he will pull back his troops. The region he has troops in are obviously huge supporters and he'll want a way out where he can still look good / tough, but also not fear the lashback of going all in. This is a card he had up his sleeve, but having a westernized country so close to home has obviously rattled him. In future showdowns, people will now no longer give him the benefit of the doubt.

No, they can't. Should I explain why?

The Ukraine has no borders with the USA, so it can't be more closer than Mexico is close to Russia. As about the EU. It (the Ukraine) has a long story of mutual massacres with Poland, for example.

There is also another possibility - Moldova will be next and then Latvia, Estonia or Lithuania - all with significant Russian minorities waiting to be be protected by Russian army.

What for? What's the Russian interest in those small and insignificant territories? Care to explain?

Or the Crimea will just become another unsolved problem on the political scene like Northern Ireland which is also an artificial construct from the Irish independence struggle.

The big Imperialist powers struggle for dominance over the pawns which are the smaller countries.

If the US had lost the Cold War it would be Mexico joining the Warsaw Pact and demanding Texas back.

Cold war already started - russian oil company wants to buy a share of our national oil company,and that was fine,and now suddenly americans cant allow that and they want to get in.

just for shits and giggles :)

You forgot Poland :2 cents:

...and Berlin!

Nothing will happen, they´ll just figure some way out which makes everybody look good. If one party pushes trough everybody loses......

Not really because what ever you say about why they can't will be wrong.

would still be interesting to hear what propaganda they are selling over there... :2 cents:

Ok. But only for you. The main markets of Russian gas and oil are China and the EU. China will be buying them in any case. Right? The EU will not least the next winter w/o Russian gas. The next important source of money is a weapon market. But Russia does not sell weapons to the States or EU (almost does not). Maybe grain that Russia sells to developing countries like Egypt? Ah?

So how exactly are you going to "crush the Ruble"? Tell me your plan, professor :pimp

"Where does Russia export to?"
1 NLD Netherlands $44,367,905,348.93 8.7%
2 CHN China $35,413,368,913.63 7.0%
3 DEU Germany $31,902,762,167.95 6.3%
4 UKR Ukraine $29,101,903,648.87 5.7%
5 USA United States $26,404,649,266.56 5.2%
6 ITA Italy $24,910,133,950.76 4.9%
7 BLR Belarus $22,983,076,687.49 4.5%
8 POL Poland $21,209,007,994.70 4.2%
9 XXA Areas $18,835,624,683.00 3.7%
10 JPN Japan $16,706,926,861.39 3.3%
11 KAZ Kazakhstan $15,688,433,525.40 3.1%
12 FRA France $15,583,200,973.98 3.1%
13 FIN Finland $14,554,538,330.59 2.9%
14 TUR Turkey $13,248,006,589.55 2.6%
15 KOR South Korea $12,198,522,489.64 2.4%
16 GBR United Kingdom $11,007,860,055.55 2.2%
17 BLX Belgium-Luxembourg $10,782,150,108.22 2.1%
18 LTU Lithuania $9,478,052,014.40 1.9%
19 ESP Spain $9,341,728,817.02 1.8%
20 HUN Hungary $8,616,065,286.32 1.7%

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/profile/country/rus/

If there are any sanctions, most of these countries would play along at least to some extent... and that adds up to more than HALF your exports...

Great. Just great. And where all those EU countries will be getting gas from? Any thoughts?

that's why it's tricky and everyone is approaching this situation cautiously... but gas isn't the only source of energy and Russia isn't the only supplier in the world... it will take time to adjust and will hurt a little, but I doubt EU will freeze to death next winter if Russia stops the gas flow...

You don't need to dig very deep

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgaz

OK someone splain' to me how what putin is doing in Crimea is any different than what the USA did in Cuba/Grenada/panama to name a few....

Just sayin

CyberSEO...as I stated...you would be wrong.

As I said, just wait and see who was wrong :winkwink:

I do not think the US/West is going to do little more to Russia than complain but if they so wanted to they could bring Russia down on its economic knees...but your examples of why the US/West could not do so are simply wrong.

yea no shit

selling propaganda indeed

probably

for france: algeria, norway, netherland

http://www.connaissancedesenergies.o...-russie-120222

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...he_Netherlands

I am happy we have both gas and oil here in little Norway, also tons of fish that the EU want to fish.. And we sell a lot of fish to the Russians and other countries.

All of the G7 nations have decried Russia's actions this past week. I don't know about "crush" but that group can definitely impose some hardships on any country, and certainly by extention the value of it's currency.

vote is sunday. :helpme think ill stay up till monday morning or sleep in the bunker :Oh crap

Who's that?